| jaiye |
| (old hand) |
| 03/12/09 05:10 PM |
Question
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I have a question. If a person who is ordered to pay SS but they leave the country and stop paying it how much would CSE do to collect it if anything. The support is paid through CSE. SO is currently paying his X and the order is for permanent support unless she remarries. The support was calculated with him working 50 hours a week even though he rarely gets overtime. He also got all of the debt. He has to continuously use credit cards to pay his way because most of his income goes to pay his support obligation and the CC debt and there isn't enough money left over to support himself. If it was for the fact that I live with him and pay many of the household bills he would have been forced out of his home and would be having to file for bankruptcy.
His company has offered him a position at another company owned shop in England. Since it is a separately owned company his support order and garnishment could not follow him. The question is would CSE take the same collection procedures as they do for CS? Things such as taking his drivers license and revoking his passport? Also if you are living and working out of the country would a US citizen have to pay taxes here if they aren't living here? Does England support US SS orders? Would they assist in collections like they do CS orders.
Basically SO wants to know if he could move to England and just disappear as far as the SS order goes.
| Maury |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 03/12/09 06:59 PM |
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Re: Question
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To be clear, you are asking for advice regarding whether a person can avoid a court ordered obligation by acting in contempt of a court order, moving to another country and hoping it does not catch up with them?
| gr8Dad |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 03/12/09 08:20 PM |
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No, I think she is asking if...
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...a person can escape an OBVIOUSLY fraudulent spousal support amount by leaving the country in which the family courts can screw a guy over in such a disasterous way.
| PhoenixRising |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 03/13/09 10:57 AM |
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Re: Question
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Yes, Americans abroad pay both federal taxes and states taxes (it is called "presumption of domicile")..
You can find out more at:
http://www.kpmg.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/US-taxation-americans-abroad.pdf
As long as the state has his income information through his tax return; they can request that the overseas employer voluntarily continue the garnishments. Corporation that do any kind of business in the US and wish to continue to do business in the US usually are happy to comply.
Not to say that people do not avoid successfully avoid their support obligation for decades.
But they don't do themselves any favors. At some point, it will catch up with him. If the support award is inappropriate; the proper course of action is to have it modified through the courts.
| Yes_Dad |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 03/13/09 04:41 PM |
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Re: Question
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I've never has to use CSE. Do they go after alimony too?
| jaiye |
| (old hand) |
| 03/13/09 08:32 PM |
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Re: No, I think she is asking if...
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Yes gr8Dad. You are correct that is what I am asking. Where we live is a small town and when you get a judge unless he dies or resigns or is voted out that is the judge who will always handle your case. Many times during SO's trial the judge proved his prejudice. It was proven over and over again that his X was lying and evidence was brought out during court to no avail. To top it all off the judge that was assigned his case was not even a family law judge he is a probate judge.
| PhoenixRising |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 03/14/09 05:23 PM |
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Re: Question
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In most states, CSE can garnish alimony **IF** there is also a standing order to garnish child support...
| gr8Dad |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 03/14/09 05:28 PM |
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The difference being that...
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...failure to pay child support can be dealt with in a criminal manner, while alimony is a civil issue. You don't go to jail for failing to pay alimony.
| PhoenixRising |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 03/14/09 05:57 PM |
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Re: The difference being that...
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"An example of such civil contempt punishment is a judge’s
ruling that a defendant shall be incarcerated until he brings current
his support arrearage. If the defendant brings his arrearage
current, he may be released. In this situation, the defendant has
an opportunity to purge himself of the civil contempt."
http://www.vsb.org/docs/valawyermagazine/feb01thornton.pdf
| gr8Dad |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 03/14/09 06:00 PM |
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That is a child support case...
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...and I never said you couldn't be jailed for child support.
Alimony is a DEBT, and since the eradication of debtors prison, one cannot be jailed for a failure to pay a debt.
| PhoenixRising |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 03/15/09 10:06 AM |
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Re: That is a child support case...
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Alimony in my case was the result of a trial and a court order.
He disobeyed the court order. The court found him in contempt. He was ordered to make a down payment on his arrearages for alimony and my attorney's legal fees or present himself to the sheriff for incarcation.
Now, we all know that judges sometimes overreach themselves but I think their intrepretation of the law is relatively simple.
Judge makes an order. Party doesn't follow order. Party goes to jail until he purges himself of his contempt of the order.
***edited to add***
I believe it is uncommon for a judge to send someone to jail for unpaid alimony and attorney fees...
In my case, the judge chose to make the charge contempt of the spousal order and attorney fees orders.
My ex was blatantly disrespectful to the judge and he was going to go to jail no matter what..
| jaiye |
| (old hand) |
| 03/15/09 02:09 PM |
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Re: The difference being that...
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Too funny. Kinda hard to comeup with money for arrears if you are in jail and can't work. A little more back ground.
Bioch refused to works during the entire marraige. Went so far on the stand to state she had no intention of working. with the support order and inputing minimum wage to her it would give her $2000 per month. Aftering paying the marital bills SO was left with $300 per month for EVERYTHING else such as car maintenance, gas, food his medical.
It has been almost 4 years and she still doesn't work the tax payers and SO support her 100% since she is in hud housing and collects food stamps and anything else she gets.
She definitely knows how to work the system. The only way for him to get the albatross off his neck would be to leave it behind. His dream is to win the lottery and just disappear.
| jaiye |
| (old hand) |
| 03/15/09 02:28 PM |
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Re: Question
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There is no Child support order here. It is only SS. CSR handles all family court matters. It is my understanding that it is supposed to be required that everything go through CSE.
My SS goes through CSE although I have not had my x's garnished.
Before anyone howls about double standard my X pays half of what SO pays and I am disabled where as SO's X is not disabled and SO and my X make around the same amount and my X and I had NO CC debt that he has had to pay and the one debt we had was my truck and I kept it and paid it off.
His X told everyone they knew that she intended to see him into bankruptcy and she has come close to realizing that goal.
| stuckinarut |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 03/15/09 08:08 PM |
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I didnt follow a court order
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My lawyer said for my defense "I can cry that poor me, I'm having a hard time paying the house hold expenses and cant pay to have her car fixed and that's all I have to say to make the judge feel sorry for me"!
| Yes_Dad |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 03/16/09 07:40 AM |
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Re: Question
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[quote]In most states, CSE can garnish alimony **IF** there is also a standing order to garnish child support... [/quote]
I asked because I never went through CSE. I suppose they would too, if there was a CS order. What I meant is can they be used is there is no CS order, just alimony.
| PhoenixRising |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 03/16/09 09:27 AM |
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Re: Question
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Bankruptcy will not excuse his spousal support arrearages nor any outstanding attorney fees...
| Yes_Dad |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 03/16/09 10:13 AM |
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Re: Question
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[quote]Bankruptcy will not excuse his spousal support arrearages nor any outstanding attorney fees... [/quote]
Most laws are made by lawyers. Like they would pass a law that would screw them sometime down the road.