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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/15/10 11:04 AM
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Wis. spousal support - for him
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I have filed for divorce after 14 years. During that time, my husband voluntarily, against my wishes, reduced his income by 75%, I have the same job. He is now an alcoholic and seeking spousal maintenance. Our incomes differ by about $10,000/year. Anyone have any idea how much I could get stuck paying him?
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yregna
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(veteran)
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06/15/10 11:47 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Women don't pay SS, men do, it is just that simple. Unless there is a huge difference in income.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/15/10 11:54 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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In Wisconsin either party can pay SS. There is not a huge difference in income, but he has the "disease" to fall back on, so I know I will be paying. I guess I just wait for how much and how long.....
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ILMimi
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(addict)
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06/15/10 03:09 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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My ex was an alcoholic and drug addict. In fact, in IL, those are fault grounds. So don't think your STBX's "disease" will be helpful to him. In fact, he could get help to overcome his disease and is choosing not to. This will not help in the judgement.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/15/10 03:31 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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WI is no fault. I think he is going to AA and counseling. The drinking has never affected his ability to work but I know I will never be able to prove it. I keep looking for reassurance that I won't get wiped out financially! He is planning to keep the house too.
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1966Gal
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/16/10 09:46 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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$10,000 a year is not a huge disparity in income at all. Even if you were to "equalize/equitable" that, you'd pay him about $4000 year in alimony, which is tax deductable to you and taxable to him. Taking the tax deduction into consideration, it comes out to be about $250 a month. You can fight it or just pay it to him for 5 to 7 years and be done with it. If I were you, I think I'd just pay it and put an iron-clad remarriage/cohabitation clause in there. Chances are he'll remarry or live with someone and you'll probably get out of it early.
Why is he keeping the house? Are you agreeing to that or is that what he's telling you is going to happen?
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Maury
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/17/10 12:28 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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$10,000 is not much of a disparity and likely is not a spousal maintenance case. That is certainly true if the last job was a volutary quit. Wisconsin, however, has case law that suggests after 20 years, the presumption starts at an equalization of income.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/17/10 08:40 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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I plan to fight it all the way. I am a parttime student now, along with fulltime employment and am working towards RN and Paramedic degrees. If I have to pay him for 5-7 years, I will not be able to finish school. I would rather pay him off in a lump sum, if possible, no matter what it ends up to be. He's just telling me he's going to try to keep the house. I don't think there's a financial way in hell he can do it. He could buy me out with assets, but he wouldn't have enough left to live on. I'm not feeling so good about being a responsible person right now! Seems it's easier to sit on your butt and let others support you.
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Yes_Dad
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/17/10 10:15 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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If you were ordered to pay alimony, why would HE be buying YOU out in assets? Either pay the alimony or give him the assets in exchange. He's be smart to take it in one lump sum.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/17/10 10:35 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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I haven't been ordered yet, but it's a joint marital property state, so we will be splitting the assets/debts and then I will be paying on top of that. I'm hoping I get away with a lump sum.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/17/10 02:39 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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In an effort to make myself feel better about this whole mess, I put it on paper. Even if I have to pay him $300/month, I will save that much by not having to pay his OWI bills and by dropping him from my health insurance!! So, I'm going forward with that attitude and hope that it's all a wash in the end. Hopefully my little dream world is fairly realistic!
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1966Gal
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/17/10 02:56 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Do NOT buy him out lump sum. If you do that, you've paid him the full amount immediatley. INSIST on alimony if he's going to get anything at all. Then you can write it off and you have a chance of getting out of most of it if he remarries or cohabitates.
Pay as little alimony as you can for as long as you can.
For example, instead of $300 over 5 years, go for $150 over ten years.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/17/10 03:14 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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If I drag it out for years, he can take me back to have it increased, for years. I don't know for sure yet, but I believe the only way to get an order that can't be modified in the future is pay him off immediately. I need the monkey off my back if I'm going to be able to continue on with school. From what I have been reading, cohabitation is difficult to prove. I know he won't stay alone for long, but I'm sure I won't be lucky enough to have him marry. I'm hoping I might be able to get him to settle for less, if it's lump sum. Greed is a wonderful thing and he's not much for looking too far into the future.
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Maury
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/17/10 03:26 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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"Do NOT buy him out lump sum. If you do that, you've paid him the full amount immediatley. INSIST on alimony if he's going to get anything at all. Then you can write it off and you have a chance of getting out of most of it if he remarries or cohabitates."
I disagree with 1966Gal completely.
Pay a lump sum in a lesser amount than you would pay over time usually makes more sense. Cut the tie. Spousal support does not end on cohabitation in Wisconsin and may not end on remarriage if the parties also negotiate a waiver of modification, which is usual. If it is modifiable, it can be modified up or down. You are going to school for a better degree nad a better job. He apparently has lcohol issues and, perhaps a disability that could limit hsi income. In other words, over time is likely the wrong choice here.
A lump sum, if paid as spousal support, is still tax deductible. As part of the negotiation, it could be a lesser amount and characterized as a property settlement. The possibilities are broad when it comes to negotiating.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/17/10 03:41 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Maury - I'm hoping for what you are saying. Really, I shouldn't have to hope for anything and he would be man enough to support himself, but, no such luck. I am very thankful that divorce exists and that I have a good job so I can support myself.
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Maury
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/17/10 04:56 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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There are some articles that may be of assistance on my website at h t t p : / /w ww.nvo.com/beaulier/wisconsindivorce/
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Yes_Dad
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/18/10 07:24 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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[quote]I haven't been ordered yet, but it's a joint marital property state, so we will be splitting the assets/debts and then I will be paying on top of that. I'm hoping I get away with a lump sum. [/quote]
I said HE would be smart to take it in a lump sum, you on the otherhand would be dumb to pay it that way. Alimony usually stops upon cohabitation and almost always upon remarriage.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/18/10 08:09 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Yes Dad - I understand your point. My problem is I will be a fulltime student before I get him paid off (I should be starting in 2 1/2 years full time). I need to not have a payment to him going on, while I'm in school. I will have all I can do then to support myself and get through school.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/18/10 08:23 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Maury - This link is broken on your site. [censored]://[censored].nvo.com/beaulier/yourbusiness1divorceandchainsaws/
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Yes_Dad
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/18/10 09:11 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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[quote]Yes Dad - I understand your point. My problem is I will be a fulltime student before I get him paid off (I should be starting in 2 1/2 years full time). I need to not have a payment to him going on, while I'm in school. I will have all I can do then to support myself and get through school. [/quote]
Between a rock and a hard place
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/18/10 09:22 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Exactly. This sucks. Why can't people be required to function and take responsibility for themselves? Eh? Oh, yeah. Did I neglect to mention that I am also financially helping my youngest son who will start his first year of college this fall? You'll notice I said "I"?
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Yes_Dad
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/18/10 12:00 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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[quote]Exactly. This sucks. Why can't people be required to function and take responsibility for themselves? Eh? Oh, yeah. Did I neglect to mention that I am also financially helping my youngest son who will start his first year of college this fall? You'll notice I said "I"? [/quote]
Because some don't, be it living off alimony, child support or a combination of both. In your place, ya, you probbly have to do a lump sum and mve on but don't think the parasite is done.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/18/10 12:12 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Yes dad - because of your last comment....if I settle on a lump sum as property settlement and get him to sign off on maintenance.....what else can he do? Never having done this battle before, I just have no idea.
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1004SRS
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/18/10 12:38 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Fight not to pay SS. Don't just assume that you will be paying.
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Miranda
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/18/10 01:03 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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[quote]Fight not to pay SS. Don't just assume that you will be paying. [/quote]
I agree 100000% your incomes are hardly different. Do not offer a thing.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/18/10 01:52 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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That's my hope. I know he's going to try it, but there isn't much difference in income. I'm just not sure how much the "alcoholic card" is going to be played and how much weight it carries. I go to court July 8 for order to show cause and I will post the outcome of that.
Keep posting comments though. It's more fodder to take to my lawyer and I appreciate it.
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ILMimi
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(addict)
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06/18/10 02:10 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Just because he is an alcoholic does not mean he is not responsible for his behavior. A judge will look more poorly upon him especiallu if he admits it. That card won't be played and if it is, it will hurt him.
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Debi
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/18/10 07:14 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Yes dad - because of your last comment....if I settle on a lump sum as property settlement and get him to sign off on maintenance.....what else can he do? Never having done this battle before, I just have no idea.
In WI, nothing. They won't revisit SS after the final decree is issued. If he agrees and signs off, then that's that.
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Maury
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/21/10 10:06 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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That is not correct. Maintenance, even so called permanent maintenance, may be revisited. It can terminate or be reduced in certain circumstances such as a substantial change of circumstances after the divorce including: retirement, disability or changes in either parties resources or need for maintenance.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/21/10 10:31 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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I think I liked the other answer better. :-)
I will be going after potential future earnings for his business too, if he decides to go for maintenance. I hope he doesn't. That's the piece that will make this all very ugly.
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Maury
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/21/10 10:35 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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You cannot go after potential future earnings. Instead, the business is valued based on present earnings and value and that value is divided as a marital asset.
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yregna
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(veteran)
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06/21/10 12:42 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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WisRes,
Quote " This sucks. Why can't people be required to function and take responsibility for themselves? "
Because a large majority of women like a system that allows them to live off a man, and they vote. It is just that simple. If you have decent income, it is stupid to get married ever to a person who doesn't...
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Sherron
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/21/10 12:43 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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"Because a large majority of women like a system that allows them to live off a man, and they vote. It is just that simple. "
Well maybe the men who don't like it should vote as well, or do you not think it's a large enough marjority?
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/21/10 01:54 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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To yregna - When we married he made twice what I was making, now he makes a whole lot less. I didn't marry him because of how much $$ he was making. Much of it was paid out in CS for the first 7 years we were married anyway. But he voluntarily quit that job, and the next job, to become quite uselessly self-employed. It's one of the reasons I'm sick of the marriage.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/21/10 01:56 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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To Maury - So, if he uses the "lousy economy" as an excuse for not earning any wages, that's too bad? That stinks. Economy and booze have never affected his income. His lack of desire to work has affected his income. Sounds to me like I'm s.o.l.
BTW - I got the official email from my lawyer today that he's requesting maintenance.
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Yes_Dad
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/22/10 01:38 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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[quote][quote]Fight not to pay SS. Don't just assume that you will be paying. [/quote]
I agree 100000% your incomes are hardly different. Do not offer a thing. [/quote]
I'd normally agree but I didn't see the total income anywhere. Maybe I missed it. $10K to you o I is nothing. It might be a lot to some. Who knows.
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Yes_Dad
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/22/10 01:38 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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I'd be embarrassed to ask for it though..LOL
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/22/10 01:43 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Well, I'm not rolling in it. I make $34,000 a year, he makes between $23,000 and $25,000. I'm telling my lawyer we are fighting this thing until dooms day. I just itemized my expenses for living on my own and there's not much left. If I have to give him $300-$400 a month, I'll go in the hole.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/22/10 02:45 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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What kind of a man wouldn't be embarassed to ask for SS? My husband! And for such reasons, no fault divorce is a wonderful option. :-)
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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[quote]What kind of a man wouldn't be embarassed to ask for SS? My husband! And for such reasons, no fault divorce is a wonderful option. :-) [/quote]
I dunno, how about all those women who ask for it each year? Not sure what the difference is gender wise.
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Maury
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/22/10 11:12 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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You basically raise two different issues. First, future earnings are not property and cannot be divided.
Second, being intentionally underemployed can be an issue and an argument on child supoprt and spousal support issues particularly if arguing that no spousal suport should be paid. If there is a history of earnings, that is likely to be the barometer of income and earning capacity.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/23/10 08:56 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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He has been of the opinion the past year that if we could pay bills and have dinner out once in a while, that's good enough.
I sent a request to my lawyer today to subpeona the contractors he works for who can basicall vouch for the fact that he is capable of working. He just finished a $7,000+ flooring job. If that doesn't cause him embarassment, I don't think anything will. On top of that, it may cause him not to be hired by them again! He's also not thinking about the fact that he wants to keep the house. How many banks will lend out big $$ when someone can't show proof of much income? Yeah. I'm also asking for him to show he's preapproved for financing.
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Yes_Dad
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/24/10 10:33 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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[quote]WisRes,
Quote " This sucks. Why can't people be required to function and take responsibility for themselves? "
Because a large majority of women like a system that allows them to live off a man, and they vote. It is just that simple. If you have decent income, it is stupid to get married ever to a person who doesn't... [/quote]
Change that to: If you have decent income, it is stupid to get married.
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Yes_Dad
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/24/10 10:35 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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[quote]He has been of the opinion the past year that if we could pay bills and have dinner out once in a while, that's good enough.
I sent a request to my lawyer today to subpeona the contractors he works for who can basicall vouch for the fact that he is capable of working. He just finished a $7,000+ flooring job. If that doesn't cause him embarassment, I don't think anything will. On top of that, it may cause him not to be hired by them again! He's also not thinking about the fact that he wants to keep the house. How many banks will lend out big $$ when someone can't show proof of much income? Yeah. I'm also asking for him to show he's preapproved for financing. [/quote]
What an idiot. Screw up furture earning potential..[censored] moron
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/24/10 12:57 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Ok, to add insult to injury, I just found out that his total receipts for the year are $8,100+. I am so screwed! I'll have to work 6 jobs to support his sorry ass and mine.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/24/10 07:17 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Ok, so total receipts for the year aren't really $8,100+. Turns out he has gotten rid of the rest of them. It's gonna get ugly folks.....Now I will have to go to the people he did work for, to prove it. Once again he's going to screw up future earning potential. I don't picture these businesses and other folks being too happy with him after this is all done. Don't you wonder what you ever saw in your ex??
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gr8Dad
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/24/10 07:25 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Might want to reconsider, if you begin speaking to his clients, he could hit you with a restraining order, and later claim in court that you were attempting to ruin his floundering business, and this would entitle him to MORE spousal support.
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Maury
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/24/10 10:42 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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You perform discovery by asking your ex for documents, serving iterrogatories and performing depositions. The documents may reveal income in excess ofthe claimed receipts. Certainly credit cards, cancelled checks and bank information may reveal expenditures and debt payments that exceed the stated income. Only when that information is acquired does you counsel take aim at the employer or clients with depositions, if necessary.
If he has sought preapproval for financing, he had to submit a statement of income. You can also acquire that through discovery.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/25/10 04:03 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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I'm sure he hasn't gotten preapproval for financing yet. He's going to go with the arrogant assumption that that no one would ever turn him down, and he'll wait until the last minute. Needless to say, I'll turn the info over to my lawyer, but I'm kind of looking forward to see him squirm at the temporary hearing when I start asking what happened to $7,000 that was in his account two months ago and is now gone and where are the invoices for this job, this job, and this job?? Seriously, I think he thinks I'm an idiot.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/25/10 09:17 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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So, my son, who has been staying with stbx called this morning and he has found closed invoices for this year for $18,000+. Now I'm feeling a bit better. He has the potential to make more $$ than I do this year! Earning capacity? Oh, yeah.
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Maury
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/25/10 08:21 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Now you set him up. You serve interogatories and allow the responding party to provide false statements regarding income. Only later do you pull out the receipts to undermine credibility. In other words, you provide enough rope for the person to hang themself.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/26/10 06:38 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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My biggest fear is that he has be hiding income for the past 5 years. Then the IRS is going to become our best buddy. I'm sure I'll get it just as much as he will even though I've never had my fingers in any of his business stuff. I'm counting on my son to get copies for me before he hides them again. What a fool.
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finz
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/26/10 07:20 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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How old is your son ? Is it his son too ? While I'd definitely WANT that info too, having your son secretly searching through his files sounds inappropriate.
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Maury
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/27/10 10:54 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Be prepared for the argument that you signed a joint return. The argument is that if you felt the financial information was false, why did you sign. At that point it is a benefit, now it is a detriment making for convenient arguments - or so the argument goes.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/28/10 06:13 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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finz - My youngest is 18 years old.
Maury - I have only seen financial information that he gave to the cpa. I never thought it could be false. I thought he was always honest. WOW! Now that's a lie. He has always lied to me, but I never, in a million years would have thought he'd be dumb enough to lie to the IRS. We'll see. I have to get those invoices and get to the temp. hearing to see what he is going to show.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/28/10 06:17 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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finz - I didn't read your whole post. My son, who lives there with him, is 25 years old and has my permission to look into our files. Keep in mind, I have filed but we are not legally separated and I have every right to be in that house and looking into our financial information. I may just end up going over there and doing it myself, since it's taking my son too long, but either way, legally he can dig through anything I want dug into.
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Yes_Dad
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/29/10 05:17 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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[quote]How old is your son ? Is it his son too ? While I'd definitely WANT that info too, having your son secretly searching through his files sounds inappropriate. [/quote]
It is and it's doubtful it admissible under the rules of evidence, unless the son is also part owner of the company. Otherwise, he's basically "stealing" financial evidence. Any "evidence" would have to be submitted by the husband via discovery under the threat of perjury.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/29/10 12:28 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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I went to the house myself this morning and found lots of proof that he has not been reporting income to the IRS. What a fool. This is so going to get ugly. At least I am no longer worried about paying maintenance! His repeat customers alone will blow his cover. Who knows how much he will get away with, but he won't get away with all of it. I would hazard a guess that he has been hiding about $20,000/year for the past 5 years. Now I understand why he drinks.
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Yes_Dad
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/29/10 03:32 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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[quote]I went to the house myself this morning and found lots of proof that he has not been reporting income to the IRS. What a fool. This is so going to get ugly. At least I am no longer worried about paying maintenance! His repeat customers alone will blow his cover. Who knows how much he will get away with, but he won't get away with all of it. I would hazard a guess that he has been hiding about $20,000/year for the past 5 years. Now I understand why he drinks. [/quote]
Do you own the house, or were you allowed in by your son and went through files while he was not home or something? And then are going to turn around and either blackmail him or turn him in to the IRS? You yourself can also get into trouble if that is the case. You #1 can't use it as a bargainig chip as the method used for discovery would be illegal and #2 if you don't own the house (or business) and nor does your son, you in effect burglarized the place. Now, you could turn him into the IRS, but through no gain for yourself and if he found the evidence was gathered that way, could have you yourself in trouble. You can't commit a crime to prevent one (technically) and what he would owe the IRS would be determined by an audit. You are skating on thin ice here. Seriously. If you don't have legal access to the files, you yourself could be prosecuted for going through them, just as anyone who illegally entered a business to refile through their files would be. Now if your son (or you) are partners or officers in the business, it's a different story. And if that is the case, you or your son would also owe the IRS.
That is why their are legal procedures and rules of evidence. He is protected by warrantless search and siezure.
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/29/10 04:15 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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I'm not sure if my name ever made it onto anything that had to do with business. I have my own key for the house which is jointly owned and have not been court ordered to stay out of it. I decided to do it that way to keep my son out of it totally. I am sure I will be in as much trouble as he is with the IRS, but I cannot believe something won't be done. I will be turning it over to my lawyer. I have made copies of everything and will be returning all the documents today.
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Yes_Dad
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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06/29/10 05:22 PM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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[quote]I'm not sure if my name ever made it onto anything that had to do with business. I have my own key for the house which is jointly owned and have not been court ordered to stay out of it. I decided to do it that way to keep my son out of it totally. I am sure I will be in as much trouble as he is with the IRS, but I cannot believe something won't be done. I will be turning it over to my lawyer. I have made copies of everything and will be returning all the documents today. [/quote]
If the house is jointly owned and you have a key and no CO to stay out, then you are ok but like I said, you can't commit a crime to prevent one. The evidence is probably unusable if you have no share in the business. Ya, just give it to the lawyer and he can decide what to do with it and will know what he can and can't do
I'm just saying, as a former business owner (who paid all taxes, CS and SS on time), if my ex had somehow snuck into the business (it was an actual stand alone company) and started trying to use "something"..whatever..I would have had her arrested and prosecuted. Luckily, she would have been pretty bored going through our files..LOL..but believe me, if there was something there, and we didn't have an alarm, she would have tried
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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06/30/10 08:59 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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It's not really sneaking though. The paperwork is in a shared file cabinet in the spare bedroom of our home. He's a one-man-band. No employees and since he did all the tax prep work and I never checked on him, I'm sure he figured he'd always get away with it. I wouldn't commit a crime to prevent. I am an EMT and apparently, the only honorable member of my marriage!
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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07/07/10 09:06 AM
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Re: Wis. spousal support - for him
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Temporary hearing tomorrow. Stay tuned. My lawyer has the goods and has reassured me that since he's hiding income from the IRS, I won't be paying. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but at least I slept last night!!
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WisRes
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(journeyman)
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07/08/10 12:50 PM
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WI spousal support - for him - temp hearing update
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He dropped his request for maintenance and didn't request I pay on the mortgage either. Smacks of guilt and made my day! Maybe I'll sleep tonight.
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