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NikkiP
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(recently joined)
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12/27/06 03:57 PM
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Child support and more children
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Hello everyone, I have been watching this board for awhile but never posted because at some point my issue was covered by another poster. But I have never seen this question addressed. An NCP that can't afford his first child/dren should not have more. OK what if he/she is able to provide for them financially and then CP seeks an increase, that changes his/her finances. So do you think the NCP should not have more children until his/her first family is grown (18-22) before having more children?
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Re: Child support and more children
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No.
No one has a crystal ball.. to have a child KNOWING you can't afford the child in the present... is senseless... but to try to figure out what you can/ can not do- have 4-10 years from now is next to impossible....... I never in a million years dreamed as a NCP that I would be making close to 100K LESS than I did 6 years ago.....
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M5M5
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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12/27/06 04:09 PM
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Re: Child support and more children
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I agree..at the time we had our daughter, we were doing great financially. It wasn't until a few years later that things became so hard.
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NikkiP
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(recently joined)
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12/27/06 04:18 PM
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Re: Child support and more children
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No is the logical answer, but most of the post here suggest that NCPs should not start new families if they can't/don't support first families. My situation, DH and I have 2 children, His child support payment for first child is $500 his ex is seeking an increase, however we don't feel that he can afford it but the judge might see it differently. Some states do consider subsequent children but then some judges and people here say don't have more children if you can't afford the ones you already have. Is there a solution?
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M5M5
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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12/27/06 04:26 PM
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Re: Child support and more children
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Situations change. You had more children before she started seeking a decrease...you can't change that. You didn't know that would happen. I believe more and more states are starting to take into account subsequent children. Ours started doing that a few years ago.
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matart1
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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12/27/06 04:47 PM
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Re: Child support and more children
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when I met my present husband he had already had 2 children from a prior marriage, his cs set and everything determined.
his ex did get cs increased but that is still no bearing.
we have had 2 children since then and we knew fully well that any subsequencent children would not allieviate cs.
since it was my female body that determined if we were to have children knowing all this, I made the decision to do so based on 100% responsibility from my income.
I knew what I was doing also.
his cs had him strapped that he could not financially live on his own.
that is not always the given for a ncp but it was in his situation.
that being said you cannot predict the future.
with our hard work we have overcome a lot of obsticales and our income is increased and we are slowing getting to a point where we are comfortable. it did not happen overnight and it could have went the opposite direction just as easily.
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AnneB
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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12/27/06 05:03 PM
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Re: Child support and more children
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Is the CS in his state a certain percentage based on income? Is the CS he is paying the correct/court determined percentage? If not, then he knew or could reasonably have known before having additional children that the amount could go up. Once he had the additional children he knew/could have known that if his income increased significantly the CS could go up.
If there has been no increase in income that would raise the CS, then it doesn't seem likely that a judge would increase it. If he has been paying the same amount of CS for years, then it is only reasonable that he would be ordered to pay a greater amount if he is making more money. I know that nothing I buy is the same price now as it was a few years ago. It isn't as simple as not having more children--it is educating yourself about the laws--i.e. child support increasing if your income increases, etc. and planninng accordingly.
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gr8Dad
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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12/27/06 05:09 PM
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The bottom line is...
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...that NCP's are supposed to have crystal balls and KNOW what will and won't happen, and shoulder the ENTIRE weight of choices made by them AND the CP, as well as financial setbacks. While CP's are protected from such devastation, adn insulated against anny and all castastrophes.
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NikkiP
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(recently joined)
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12/27/06 05:26 PM
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Re: The bottom line is...
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Well in our situation my DH salary has decreased but not significantly so he didn't try to get child support decreased. I don't know if the ex thinks his salary has increase or because she has more expenses for the child age 12. But it could be a toss up his argument is he didn't seek a decrease based on his lower salary. His court order is based on ex having full custody (primary, sole whatever. So it is at the full level. It included daycare which the child no longer goes to daycare.
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NikkiP
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(recently joined)
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12/27/06 05:32 PM
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Re: Child support and more children
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Yes I know it is possible for child support to increase but if ex lies about expenses for the child then ex should have to provide proof of the expenses, as I said before, there are cases on this board where the CP lies about expenses to increase child support or get more money from NCPs for non existent medical expenses. But some judges take CPs at their word that they have such expenses thus an increase to NCPs. I don't know of any person CP or NCP that would want to make less money so that their child support wouldn't increase.
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AnneB
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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12/27/06 05:39 PM
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Re: Child support and more children
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That must be a real problem. Here they don't really care how the expenses have increased. All they go by is income. I certainly hope someone is not able to get CS raised by lying about expenses. That is just so wrong. Unless the child has some kind of special medical needs with prohibitive costs, I don't think someone should really get more CS if the person paying it has not had an increase in income.
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NikkiP
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(recently joined)
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12/27/06 06:11 PM
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Re: Child support and more children
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They have a court date soon, court documents state bring financial documentation and witnesses, what kind of witnesses i plan to go with but would i be a witness?
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AnneB
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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12/27/06 06:17 PM
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Re: Child support and more children
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It depends on what the hearing is. You really could not be a witness to what her expenses are. However, if the law in your state allows for a deviation from support guidelines because of that child's needs and allows for a deviation due to the expenses of subsequent children, you may be able to testify about that. As far as I know, the states that provide a reduction for subsequent children use a standard percentage so there would be nothing to prove except the number of children. I suppose you could testify to that!
You would need (and your H) to bring all financial records that the state deems relevant. But if she filed, the burden is on her. You really don't know what kind of witnesses you will need to rebut whatever she is going to say until she says it.
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Debi
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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12/27/06 06:20 PM
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Re: The bottom line is...
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You know...a lot of times I agree with you but you need to get off your high horse and quit assuming that all CP's are evil and all NCP's have a cloud of black shrouding them. I'm stuck in a 50/50 situation with a person who is not allowed to see his kids. I feel screwed by a system that said he should retain 50/50 status and made no provision for my children to receive CS in case he wouldn't be allowed to have contact with them. The system only made a provision if he went to jail. The man's PO sat in the court room and didn't say a word full well knowing what she was going to do mere weeks after a family court judge decided that a former middle school teacher who was downloading child p0rn was fit to parent unsupervised. When I called and begged for my children to be able to havea supervised visit with their father on Christmas had the audacity to say "If you knew about him what I do you'd never let him see them." I asked her why the hell she didn't say that in court.
Now, I've completely hi-jacked this post and I'm sorry for that but I'm so sick of your pedestal. I am for equal parental rights but I'm also about the best interest of the kids. All you seem to care about is the NCP getting screwed because most of them are men. You are so right. It's more expensive to raise the child than pay CS, especially when you aren't raising them and don't have to pay.
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jsp
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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12/27/06 06:36 PM
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Re: Child support and more children
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You can't take a generic question and get the "right" anwser. We were told that if we had a child, we could file for a decrease, but given the attorney fees, it wouldn't be worth the fight especially when we have a year and a half left.
To me, $500 depending on child care expenses is more than reasonable, but given my husband pays $800 child support and $400 military retirement, we'd be jumping for joy for what you pay.
If his income has decreased and it goes on % or a formula, she can ask but the likelyhood of it changing will be up to the formula and judge... it could go down and her attempts for a increase could backfire.
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NikkiP
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(recently joined)
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12/27/06 07:18 PM
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Re: Child support and more children
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Well my DH pays $500 plus $300 a month for family health insurance. His salary is $35K so do the numbers and he isn't putting much into our home or children.
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NikkiP
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(recently joined)
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12/27/06 07:22 PM
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Re: Child support and more children
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Also, If I understand child support if my DH pays $500 and the CP pays $500 thats $1k for one child per month. That seems like a lot of money per month. Is this how child support works?
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jsp
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(Carpal \'Tunnel)
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12/27/06 07:29 PM
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Re: Child support and more children
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[quote]Also, If I understand child support if my DH pays $500 and the CP pays $500 thats $1k for one child per month. That seems like a lot of money per month. Is this how child support works? [/quote]
I agree, but its doesn't take into the account of the family and particular needs of the child. My husband's ex doesn't live a lifestyle that even allows her to spend $1000 a month (so if she contributes even $200), but that's what the court ordered and there is nothing you can do but pay. She doesn't even spend more than a few hundred a month, with the biggest expense being food since he is in no activities. It's basically income for the CP as the court decided the households should be "equal" in the standard of living even thought it doesn't even remotely "equal out" as the child still gets mimimal.
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Re: Child support and more children
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If they are GRANTED an increase, it generally means that the CS was not based on their true income or current income, or that the expenses warrant an increase. These are things they should be aware of...that if their income increases, they should be prepared for a CS increase, or if the child has extraordinary expenses, they may need to pay out more. They should consider these before they have more children. And if they feel they can still handle reasonable increases, then they could have more children without anyone feeling any pinch from the decision.
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We are?...
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Gee, wish I'd have had that crystal ball to inform me of how I sooooooo didn't fit your scenario of total protection and insulation.
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You're asking a lot...
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To expect gr8dad to get off his pedestal??? You should start with smaller requests. ;)
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Well...
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He should be prepared for a decrease then. Since his salary has decreased and daycare is no longer an issue, she may have just shot herself in the foot by seeking a modification.
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If you don't ask the judge for proof...
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they may not think about asking the CP for it. It's up to you to present your case well. When the CP requests expenses, you need to request that documentation be provided. Generally, that is how orders are written up anyway...that the NCP pay their portion of expenses within 30 days of receiving the bill.
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No...
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Just because he owes $500/mo., doesn't mean she does. Especially if your state is income shares. That would mean each pays a percentage of CS...and not necessarily 50%. It could be an 80/50 split, depending on her income and if it's lower than his.
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Re: You're asking a lot...
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Is there a reason why you have been gone and just decide to pop in and start insulting gr8dad? What has he done to you lately? I guess you won't ever move on will you?
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Re: Child support and more children
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[quote]Also, If I understand child support if my DH pays $500 and the CP pays $500 thats $1k for one child per month. That seems like a lot of money per month. Is this how child support works? [/quote]
Theoretically it should be like this, but it never really seems to work out to a true 50/50 split. One side or the other is paying a higher % of the actual costs. I know for certain that when I was a child, my mother wasn't matching even a fraction of what my father paid in CS to our upkeep. She would try and rationalize is by stating that since he had a better job, he should pay more. However, she chose to work at low paying jobs (even though she had a masters degree) and consciously made the decision to contribute minimally financially to our care. There wasn't much he could do about it since how do you enforce the CP to actually work to their potential?
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Is there a reason...
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why you've decided to be board moderator and moral police lately?
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