| marlite |
| (recently joined) |
| 04/07/08 06:21 PM |
School expenses vs. support
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I am wondering how everyone here does regular school year expenses (back to school shopping for clothes/supplies and then also cost of school lunches)
I know alot will base on orders in the case... which for me there are none concerning this issue, as this is child's first year coming up. Just wanting to know how some of you do it (input from CP and NCP appreciated!) Is cost for these items split in some way between the parents (on top of support being paid), OR is it considered to be part of the normal expenses of raising a child which is covered by support? Did you and other parent agree to this arrangement, or did the court order it in your case?
Thanks !
| GrammaLatte |
| (enthusiast) |
| 04/07/08 06:25 PM |
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Re: School expenses vs. support
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For me and my kids, skids, we just paid for everything like that. Part of having kids...
| JennyLynn |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/07/08 06:33 PM |
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Re: School expenses vs. support
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<<Part of having kids... >>
Right but the child is both parent's kid. :) I think she's wondering how do you decide who pays what, what portion do you pay, etc.
Marlite - Are you the CP? If so do you receive child support? Or are you the NCP who pays CS?
As a CP who doesn't get much help from the NCP - I'd ask for X to pay half, and if he didn't, I'd pay for it all.
| jil_stevens |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/07/08 06:56 PM |
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Re: School expenses vs. support
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My ex pays nothing for it. He is current on his child support only due to a garnishment, and he pays nothing else, even the medical expenses he is court ordered to pay.
| marlite |
| (recently joined) |
| 04/07/08 07:03 PM |
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Re: School expenses vs. support
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yes, I agree it is part of having kids...
I guess I will get a bit more detailed.
No orders are in place for extracurricular costs or any of the rest of above issues I posted about for school, yet our child will start school in the fall.
His mom tried to slip in a charge for an extracurricular activity at his day care when my support was being refigured (which the judge said since there were no orders in place saying that we were to split them , then it would not be in the figure for child care and no NEW order was made)
Mom had given me general info (school name, website, 1st day... then eventually a calendar - for last year which child was not enrolled yet?) as her providing info to me (BTW we have joint legal, with her having physical about 60%, me about 40%)
Now, she is sending more info, even though she keeps informing that I should check the online info, and what she has included is the school year calendar for next year, info on the afterschool care she chose, list for supplies needed for Kindergarten and a fully detailed list of school lunch costs.
To me, it looks like she will be asking that I will have to split these costs or contribute to them. Especially since she had just recently tried to add in the extra cost at daycare AND since there are plenty of other things on these sites she could be printing off and sending me (like the school policy book, teacher information, stuff actuially pertinent to his education) but instead she makes sure to send me the print outs for the things that have costs. Personally, I feel that these costs are part of what support is paid for... (And, yes, I would feel that even if I had physical custody - I would not expect her to share these costs on top of child support if she were paying me) even without school - she still had to cloth him, provide items to entertain him and feed him. But I am understanding and have even thought of beating her to the punch... I am just wondering WHAT would be fair to offer.
I have thought about going ahead and getting a few school outfits, maybe a pair of shoes and then part of the supplies list in the next month or so (and of course save my reciepts). I want to do it soon, I figure she won't shop until july or august anyway, but just in case she does try to ask the court to order us to share. And then also offering to her that the days I take son to school I will provide $ for lunch (either ahead of time to her or pay it myself on 'lunch card"??? haven't figured out how to do this one yet?) and then extra curricular activities we will need to discuss and agree on, otherwise the cost will be hers. She makes a good deal more $ than I do, so I think what I have offered is pretty generous, plus if she were to go to ask judge to make these "split down the middle" between us, if I offer this or SHOW that I have given her this much, judge may feel like she is just trying to milk it.
So that is why I am wondering what some of you all do for this - so that I know how much or how little I should do. (because I also know that if I voluntarily do this this year, she will expect it next year and the year after... so I also don't want to hang myself by trying to be nice.)
| hippie1981 |
| (veteran) |
| 04/07/08 07:04 PM |
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Re: School expenses vs. support
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I assume it's part of child support as child support pays for clothing and feeding the child. I really don't buy much in the way of back-to-school clothes. Maybe 1 or 2 new outfits, but I buy DD new clothes year round as she needs them. I qualify for reduced price lunches, and I get an email when DD's lunch account is running low. I just send $20 to school at that time. I don't ask the ex for any reimbursement for anything.
| marlite |
| (recently joined) |
| 04/07/08 07:16 PM |
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Re: School expenses vs. support
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Wow, lots of responses and ?'s while I was just typing away...
To answer some that I did not answere above - I am NCP that pays Support on time, shares medical/insurance costs (won't get into the whole past, but I contribute more than I should technically have to for those!) I put child in activities that have registration fees and supplies (in which I do not ask mom for $ for because she would refuse... she had plenty of times, so I stopped asking!) Yet, I am still willing to be the bigger person and step up to the plate to help furnish things that will benefit our son.
The school outfit thing, they have a 'loose' uniform policy, so he cannot just wear his normal everyday shirts, and jeans. it is still kind of casual, and I have started buying things that fall in line w/ their dress code, so his wadrobe that I have that fits him is already school ready. This is the reason I thought to send at least a few school outfits to Mom .
I am starting to see a pattern though, that most of you do not ask for or get reimbursement from the NCP for these costs.
I am sure there aer some on the other side of the coin, more responses certainly welcome!
| Miranda |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/07/08 07:20 PM |
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Re: School expenses vs. support
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Food/lunches and clothing fall under child support. Schools supplies fall under "you have a kid and have to buy them". It is just one of those things. What are school supplies? Less than 100.00? If the child is in kinder, then it would be more like 28.00 (what I paid) so to me that is a nonissue. The rest in covered in the CS that you pay.
| almostheaven |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/07/08 07:55 PM |
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Re: School expenses vs. support
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I believe for just about every state, those are considered normal expenses to be covered by CS.
| Melody |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/07/08 07:57 PM |
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Frankly, I can't understand why this issue
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comes up. The "school" expenses that you describe....clothing/shoes, lunches, supplies....are not actual expenses related to attending school. They are normal everyday expenses that the child has. The child needs clothing/shoes, the child needs to eat lunch, the child is going to need some pencils/paper/notebooks, etc. This is what child support is for. CPs should NOT be hitting up the NCP for additional funds to cover these expenses because this is already figured into the states calculations for child support.
Now if an order was WRITTEN to deal with extra expenses, then it's a different story and the CP can ask that the order be enforced. I'm only talking about cases where child support is simply ordered...period.
Why on earth would the NCP need to pay MORE to go towards school lunches? They are already paying support that should be allocated towards groceries for the child from which lunches can be made. If the kid wants school lunch, then the CP could certainly earmark some of the child support for that and contribute some of their own money. The NCP is already paying support that is supposed to cover his/her share of the child's clothing/shoe needs, so why should they have to contribute even more? The CP should be budgeting the child support so that there is some additional funds available at Back to School time.
As for school supplies....what are we talking about here? A few bucks for binder paper, notebooks, pens/pencils? Toss them in your regular grocery basket a few at a time. Graphing calculator for $100? Well, MAYBE that's a reasonable request for the NCP to contribute.
| Melody |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/07/08 08:02 PM |
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Yes, the kid is both the parents responsibility
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but if the NCP is paying support, then their responsibility has been met. The CP must figure out how to USE the support in such a manner that there is adequate money for back to school needs.
You know...there isn't a rule that everyone must have all new clothes and shoes on September 1. I just buy my kids clothes when they need them and maybe a couple new things in the fall. I don't do a major hundreds of dollars shopping trip.
| Melody |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/07/08 08:08 PM |
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Ya know
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Mom isn't your secretary. She is doing you a favor by giving you the calendar and the school information, as well as the website. SHE doesn't have to print stuff out for you....YOU need to print out what you want. She is printing out things that are of concern to her. Clearly she is indicating that she feels you have some sort of share in these expenses. Just ignore her, or tell her that you pay your support and she needs to budget the money to cover these costs.
I assume that you do pay your share of daycare. That is fair. But anything extra....if it's not in your orders.....is not your responsibility. If it's for something special like a field trip, dance lessons, etc...it would be NICE if you contributed...and you SHOULD share extra curricular costs....but clothing, school supplies, and lunches are NOT extra curriculars....they are regular everyday expenses and child support covers those.
| marlite |
| (recently joined) |
| 04/07/08 08:53 PM |
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Re: Ya know
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Maybe you took me wrong... or possibly did not read my second post ...I am not expecting her to print out and send me anything (and I did not get into the WHOLE detail, but I had been researching the schools far before she ever sent me the school name, as we have joint legal... meaning I have a say in where he attends... but she doesn't understand that, she just adds in a motion or response when we were discussing support that "the child will be attending ______ elementary school starting in August" ... which was when I was first "told" where she "planned to enroll him". Again, a very long story, but short of it is, I have to pick my battles, and picking one mediocre primary public school over another mediocre primary public school was not a battle that is worth it right now just to stir mom up when there were other things that were of higher importance. AS soon as she included this name I was looking at every nook and cranny online, link, googling the exact school, test scores, etc... and calling the school to get informed on registration info, orientation, etc....and ensuring that it was not an absolutely poor choice to be sending our son to.
I did not need anything she sent me, as I already had looked up the schools and researched them myself before hand, and then further once this document was filed, but we ARE court ordered to forward any information in regards to school/preschool, daycare, doctors, prescriptions... so that is WHY she forwarded the website, calendar and school name to me at first, becasue she HAD to, it was not a favor. (again, long story, but she had problems not giving me info - so the judge made very specific rules)
MY issue was that out of all the other stuff that the website for the school and school district offered (there is even a GREAT 'prep' area in the kindergarten part of the school site for things they suggest parents can concentrate on to ready their kids for schools start, not to mention the other things I already mentioned in other post) Mom sent ONLY the information regarding anything that would have to be PAID for.
Just as you gathered from these actions... I am expecting her to request me to have to split these costs... but unfortuanately, that will mean court, as anything she wants to try to get HER way, she will put in front of the judge rather than say a word to me 1st.
I agree that extra curricular activities the parents should share (but my opinion is according to income percentage - just as every other cost should be) BUT, I also feel that it should be discussed, and reasonable. And visitation time should be considered when discussing these activities. (obviously at 5, if a game is missed for a county run league game to spend the day with dad it is LOT different than a 15 year old missing an school district allstar game)
As far as the responsibility for supplies, clothes, lunch... I am seeing alot of agreement that child support covers them... so do any of you have any opinion as to wether I should purchase some and send to mom's?
| laurieann |
| (member) |
| 04/07/08 09:07 PM |
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Re: Ya know
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Kid's LOVE to pick out school supplies.
It might be fun to take your son to the store and let him pick out some pencils, crayons, his supply box, maybe a little backpack, etc.
I think it should be covered cs, but, if it doesn't bother you too much, if you can afford it and your son has fun doing it, why not?
If she does take it to court, it can only look good on you. (it is fun tho)
| Melody |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/07/08 09:26 PM |
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I read it all
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and from what you wrote, I got the impression that you were complaining that she wasn't sending you all of the things on the website, such as the handbook, etc. I took that to mean that you expected her to do all of that for you. Sorry if I understood it incorrectly. Of course she's only going to send you what she feels is pertinent to her agenda.
As for your actual question....you want to know if you should buy a few things for the kid to be nice. Honestly, I do believe you should....just because that's what nice people do...and this is your little one who's going off to school. But...and this is a big but....as you've already mentioned, she's going to think that this is normal for you and that you will do it all the time. So...my suggestion would be to give it to the child all wrapped up as a gift, so it is clearly associated as being a Back to School present....whether it's a new outfit, new crayons, new sneakers, etc.....and NOT something that mom should be counting on. If mom says anything, you let her know that you provide child support as ordered by the state and that expenses related to food and clothing for the child are to be paid for out of the child support. You do have the right to present the child with gifts and treats at YOUR discretion and that mom shouldn't expect this. As for the lunches, you can certainly give your child lunch money whenever you choose to...or buy her some treats for her lunch box. But I would definitely give them to the child...else mom may not even mention that they are from daddy.
I agree with you about the activities. Extra curriculars should not be shouldered by just one parent....both should contribute and I also like your suggestion of making it proportional to income. I also agree about the early developmental levels being not that important in terms of missing a game or practice here or there for family time.
My daughter plays two varsity sports at her high school, and the commitment during the seasons, as well as the commitment outside of the season is overwhelming. There are many weeks that go by without her seeing her dad because of her schedule and the lack of coordinating an alternative time/day.
| JennyLynn |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/08/08 07:54 AM |
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Re: Yes, the kid is both the parents responsibility
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<<but if the NCP is paying support, then their responsibility has been met. The CP must figure out how to USE the support in such a manner that there is adequate money for back to school needs.
You know...there isn't a rule that everyone must have all new clothes and shoes on September 1. I just buy my kids clothes when they need them and maybe a couple new things in the fall. I don't do a major hundreds of dollars shopping trip. >>
I completely agree - I RARELY got new clothes when August came around.
When I responded to the OP, I was under the impression they were necessary items that the CP was asking for help with (required school supplies, etc).
| SCgirl |
| (enthusiast) |
| 04/08/08 07:58 AM |
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Re: Ya know
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My CS is factored to include everything under the sun that the children may need. STBX doesn't spend a penny more even on the smallest things that they may ask for when they are together.
| JennyLynn |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/08/08 08:08 AM |
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Re: Ya know
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Not everyone's is though SCgirl, that's why I was curious.
My son isn't school age yet, so I haven't run into this problem.
I would assume that X isn't obligated to pay anything above CS, daycare, and his half of medical (none of which he consistently pays anyway!).
| 092895 |
| (enthusiast) |
| 04/08/08 08:45 AM |
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Re: Ya know
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Sounds to me like you are trying to do the right thing! School supplies are a part of childsupport, but as above post have stated it would probably mean a lot to your child if you took him/her shopping for a couple of things. They love to shop for book bags!
As for the extra activities, I think it is great that you chip in. Those kind of things do get really expensive. I really wish my ex would help out, but he doesn't. He contributes nothing for school either, which is fine, but sometimes it's not about the money.
My ex is like one of the other post. CS is only current, because it is garnished and he doesn't pay his share or medical, so why should I expect him to help with anything else.
I've just come to realize that it's on me and I'm fine with that. It's just part of having a child.
I would suggest if she keeps pennying you to death and dragging you to court, that you ask for her to pay for your legal expenses. It might not work, but if a judge sees that you are contributing outside CS he may make her pay, so she doesn't waste the courts time.
There are too many people who truly need the courts systems help just for CS without wasting time on this kind of crap!
| 1966Gal |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/08/08 09:25 AM |
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Re: School expenses vs. support
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All of that is a "normal" part of raising a child and, therefore, CS should cover it. The only thing I ask my ex help with is for something extraordinary, like one of those $100+ graphing calculators my D needed.
But school supplies, clothes, school fees, yearbook, etc.... all a part of CS.
| 1004SRS |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/08/08 10:26 AM |
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Re: School expenses vs. support
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I am the CP.
I sent my kids Dad informatIon about kindergarten this coming up year on the internet. He has the link if he is interested in going to pre-registration or any of that other stuff.
The link is also there for school supplies, lunch information, uniform information, etc.. Just because the link is on the website it doesn't mean I am asking for help paying for anything.
It would be ultra nice, if my son's father would take his little boy school supply shopping or for a new pair of tennis shoes before school start. Kids do love to buy that kind of stuff and it would make it seem more special to have Dad there. Yes, CS does cover it, but the time together would be great for the both of them.
I do pay lunches monthly. When the balance gets low, the school sends home a note.
| JRS |
| (old hand) |
| 04/08/08 11:06 AM |
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Re: School expenses vs. support
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it's all part of Child Support. CP's choice/responsibility to allocate those funds as necessary.
Only exception we make with my Skids on NCP side is that we have overnights during the school week - we cover lunches on the days that we take them to school. Projects/field trips/extras depends on a)if the notice of expense comes during our visitation time AND b) the expense occurs during our visitation time.
| c_jane |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 04/08/08 11:27 AM |
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Re: Frankly, I can't understand why this issue
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I am the NCP, have DS 1/2 the time, and pay $725/mo. CS (+$75 health care premium). I buy DS clothes to wear at my house (he has an entire warddrobe here -- inc. coats & sweaters). I buy his backpack every year or two. When I have him I either pack him a lunch with MY groceries, or he buys. If I get the letter that he's low on $$ for his lunch account I write the school a check for $10 or so. If I get the letter for him going on a fieldtrip & needing money I pay for it. If he's going to the bookfair a day when I have him, I give him money for a book.
The ONLY time I have ever mentioned to DS that I can't afford something is when his Dad dropped him out of Karate 'because they couldn't afford the fees any longer' and I told son I couldn't afford them either. $10-$20 every week isn't going to kill me. And I had rather son remember that he can ASK me for things, instead of me always telling him "tell your Dad to buy/pay for it -- that's what the CS I pay him is for".
I do not usually buy his school supplies, but would if he asked me to.
| BeckaLeigh |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/08/08 12:45 PM |
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Re: School expenses vs. support
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We order my SS's supplies straight from the school. We send them the check and he picks the supplies up the first day of school. This isnt addressed in the order, we just do it. In my kids' case, we buy all supplies and that is it. I dont expect or need dad to help so it is alot easier. He doesnt pay CS, he sure isnt going to help with school supplies. LOL.
| BeckaLeigh |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/08/08 12:47 PM |
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Forgot about lunches...
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BM pays for SS's lunches. We pay for my kids' lunches. I cant see asking for an extra $1.80 a day if my kids eat school lunch.
| accesskas |
| (enthusiast) |
| 04/08/08 01:11 PM |
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Re: Forgot about lunches...
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my husband has done a little of both. He pays child support so a lot of the buying of school things his ex-wife does since she receives child support, however on occasion my husband will buy something needed because he is the parent too, but like i said, a majority of all major purchases are made by his ex-wife because she receives child support and that is what CS is for.
| DeeCan |
| (veteran) |
| 04/08/08 02:07 PM |
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Re: School expenses vs. support
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My exH would laugh if I asked him to pay for those things - half or all. He would say that is what CS is for...and he's right.
Now, if you just WANT to do that for your DS, that is great! It's a perfect opportunity for you to take your DS out and let him, directly, see you spend a little green on him. :)
| lovinmykids |
| (old hand) |
| 04/08/08 02:48 PM |
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Re: School expenses vs. support
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I use the CS to cover the meantioned expenses. My girls' dad pays plenty to help with the expenses. My son's dad barely pays anything so at least 3/4 of all expenses for him are covered by me.
I feel if a NCP pays CS it is up to them about whether or not they want to help with extra expenses.
| BeckaLeigh |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/09/08 08:52 AM |
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Re: Forgot about lunches...
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CS is great. But, I am a [censored] believer in the fact that in OUR case, we would spend a whole lot more than what we pay in CS if SS lived with us. My children live with us and they get ALOT. Why shouldnt my SS? Why should my DH let a CO tell him his obligation is done by cutting a check that is the same amount every month? Unexpected expenses come up, registration fees come up, etc... We rarely send BM extra money, because she gets the CS. But, that doesnt stop us from giving him extra or buying clothes/school supplies, etc...
| lovinmykids |
| (old hand) |
| 04/09/08 09:21 AM |
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Re: Forgot about lunches...
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Our family is pretty much the same way. My kid's dads do not send any extra for them. No cloths, school help, money, etc.
I am sure that if I asked my girls' dad would but I have never asked because he gets my son too and does for him when he is there. I also don't ask because he pays for the kid's to be in summer camp. Its his choice because its during his visit and the only way he can get them. That way they are in camp when he is at work and home when he is not. Up until this summer he also provided summer camp for my son but now son says he is to old and will not be going. He has never asked me to pay towards it.
As for my stepson. Before he came here with us we sent alot of stuff. DH faithfully pays CS and thats not all. We would send cloths, toys, diapers, wipes, food, etc home with his after every visit. We did it because she didn't. She admitted using the CS on vodka, cigs, gambling, etc and then asked for diapers, wipes, etc. Instead of having her keep having to ask we just started sending the stuff.
| ssmom79 |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 04/09/08 04:03 PM |
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Re: School expenses vs. support
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We buy all our own clothes.
We alternate who buys supplies every month.
This was not addressed in the court order, it is agreed between parents.
ETA: WE are considered the NCP however we have 50/50.
| gettingby |
| (journeyman) |
| 04/09/08 04:31 PM |
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Re: Frankly, I can't understand why this issue
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As CP I pay for school clothing, regular supplies and lunches (we send lunch). Dad pays for lunches when he has the kids and he does buy clothing for them when he wants to, but I don't expect him to. We do split the extra 'fees' that the school requests during registration for things like PE uniforms, student activity card, class fees (the school collects extra money to make up for what the district won't pay for) and school portraits.
| ptr |
| (recently joined) |
| 04/28/08 01:33 PM |
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Re: Frankly, I can't understand why this issue
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do u have to for school stuff activities, clothing, ??etc cause my wife will claim that all things are necessary and say its an emergency...i live in jersey school trips...she will nickel and dime the hell out of me just like now.