Lester
(recently joined)
04/26/08 08:05 PM
Paternity Question and Child Support

I was married to my wife when our daughter was born 5 years ago. My wife and I are filing for divorce but I found out the daughter is not my biological daughter from legal DNA paternity testing.

I sponsored them to immigrate to USA 4 years ago, but my wife was cheating on me and conceived my daughter with another man. I do not want to pay child support. Legally am I required to provide child support for my daughter who has been proved not to be my biological daughter? I live in Washington state. Any help is greatly appreciated!!!!


googledad
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/26/08 10:51 PM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

Marriage only provides a presumption of paternity . WHEN you file for divorce or if she requests child support you'll need to file a motion to disestablish paternity .

SCgirl
(enthusiast)
04/27/08 06:29 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

And you don't feel a moral obligation to help support the child you raised as your own for many years??

spinnerdegrassi
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 07:48 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

Fraud was committed and he was a victim. If anything, he should get custody, and let the ex wife pay child support. It proves she has no morality, and is a terrible role model for the child in question.

Relayer
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 07:58 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

[quote]And you don't feel a moral obligation to help support the child you raised as your own for many years?? [/quote]

No, there is NO moral obligation. He was defrauded into believing the child was his. He has neither a moral and hopefully obligation for either.

Why dont you get your checkbook out and start sending ME 20% of your earning. Oh...I know we have no kids together...but dont you feel a moral obligation to support a child who is not yours?

Jesus


gr8Dad
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 08:09 AM
LMAO! I had to laugh...

You ended your post with "Jesus"...in a post about paternity fraud...come on, that is IRONIC, LOL.

Relayer
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 08:13 AM
Re: LMAO! I had to laugh...

[quote]You ended your post with "Jesus"...in a post about paternity fraud...come on, that is IRONIC, LOL. [/quote]

Haha..ya..I wasn't thinking but it is ironic..

But what is it with these women who think there is some kind of moral obligation because he supported the kid for the 5 previous years. In fact, she needs to pay him back EVERY friggin dime he spent on a child that wasn't his. Talk about greed at it's finest. He has no obligation what so ever and in fact, she should be punished for the fraud (although of course, we know that wont happen..somehow, she will present herself as a victim..blah blah).


gr8Dad
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 08:15 AM
I wonder what...

...CSE would have gotten out of Joseph?

"Yes, that will be two lambs and a wooden table (he WAS a carpenter) once a month."


Relayer
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 08:17 AM
Re: I wonder what...

[quote]...CSE would have gotten out of Joseph?

"Yes, that will be two lambs and a wooden table (he WAS a carpenter) once a month." [/quote]

And Mary would have been happy because we know the Palestine Child Support Enforecement really really sucked..and the Romans were of no help either..


SCgirl
(enthusiast)
04/27/08 08:19 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

[quote]Fraud was committed and he was a victim. If anything, he should get custody, and let the ex wife pay child support. It proves she has no morality, and is a terrible role model for the child in question. [/quote]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I'm just saying, if you raise a child for many years and treat it as your own, wouldn't you want to continue to have a relationship with that child and know that it is being well taken care of in every way?

It seems as if this is the only father this child has known! You don't rear, nurture and love a child for the first 4-5 years of it's life, create a bond and then turn your back on it.

I agree that he was defrauded but instead of asking how he can not support this child shouldn't he be asking how he can gain custody of a child that he loved and raised as his own??


Relayer
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 08:27 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

I dont see one statement where he said he loved the kid.

spinnerdegrassi
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 08:28 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

See, this is where he would get screwed. He'd be told that the child wasn't "really" his, thus he should get no chance at custody. But he should continue to pay for this child for the next 13-17 years based on the lies perpetrated by the mother.

This is why, without a doubt, there should be mandatory DNA testing at birth for every child born in this country to prevent situations like this.


SCgirl
(enthusiast)
04/27/08 08:28 AM
Re: LMAO! I had to laugh...

[quote]But what is it with these women who think there is some kind of moral obligation because he supported the kid for the 5 previous years. [/quote]

Of course I think there is a moral obligation! This was "HIS" child for the first several years of it's life. I assume he didn't just "support" this child but acted as the child's father!

I am not pro-father or pro-mother. I am pro-child! This poor child is a VICTIM because of it's shitty parents. I agree that there should probably be some sort of restitution but don't make the child suffer.


spinnerdegrassi
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 08:29 AM
Re: LMAO! I had to laugh...

The child will suffer, knowing that the mother is a lying [censored] for the rest of his life. I mean, can you imagine having to spent the rest of your life knowing what your mother did to you. It's all on her.

SCgirl
(enthusiast)
04/27/08 08:30 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

[quote]I dont see one statement where he said he loved the kid. [/quote]

You're right, he did not. I guess I just assumed that when you marry and raise a kid(that you think is your own), love is part of the equation, at least where your child is concerned.


SCgirl
(enthusiast)
04/27/08 08:38 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

[quote]See, this is where he would get screwed. He'd be told that the child wasn't "really" his, thus he should get no chance at custody. But he should continue to pay for this child for the next 13-17 years based on the lies perpetrated by the mother. [/quote]

No doubt what the mother did was wholly wrong but I would hope he would at least want a relationship with the child.

As a mother, I was bonded to my children their first day of their life. For example, if someone had told me mere months down the line that one of them were switched at birth and not mine, it would have been agonizing to think I'd have to give it up. I would still love the child as mine. He was this child's father for 5 years!


SCgirl
(enthusiast)
04/27/08 08:49 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

[quote]Why dont you get your checkbook out and start sending ME 20% of your earning. Oh...I know we have no kids together...but dont you feel a moral obligation to support a child who is not yours?[/quote]

I actually would if I raised the child as mine for 5 years...


Renee
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 09:24 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

I agree that there should continue to be a relationship between the child and the OP, but I don't think he should be obligated to get out the ckbook. I think if he does indeed LOVE this child, he wouldn't look at it as an obligation, but as taking care of a child who's already at a disadvantage in life with a morally bankrupt mother. Would it be fair? Heck no. But its not the childs fault mom is a skank so punishing the child further doesn't seem fair either. The child is already losing a family and a Bio father.

DNA testing at birth should be done - I agree with spinner.

As for what the OP can do now? I'd like to see him not only sue Mom for fraud, but get the real papa brought into the fight too. Of course, he probably has no clue he's a papa. If she lied to the OP she surely would've lied to this guy too.


almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 09:27 AM
The problem is...

He's not one of the shitty parents. He is ALSO a victim. It can hurt and be very emotionally draining to be going through a divorce and discover the child you THOUGHT was yours wasn't, the wife you THOUGHT was faithful wasn't. After he gets over the pain, he may still want a relationship with the child as they've surely grown close over the last 5 years. But it won't help that relationship build if he's forced to pay out for his STBX's lies about that child. That will only put a bigger wedge in there.

almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 09:29 AM
Re: I wonder what...

Not to dampen this jovial joking conversation, but in reality, Joseph would likely have been stoned to death for abandoning a wife and child.

almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 09:31 AM
Yup...

Doing DNA at birth would be much cheaper. You're already in the hospital, they already have the mother's blood drawn, much cheaper to do and solves a HUGE problem we're having for future generations. It could be up to the father whether or not they want to KNOW the results, but at least they are given that option and the test is done.

gr8Dad
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 09:33 AM
Sorry, but you are mistaken...

...ONE word from Joseph that Mary was pregnant and the child was not his would have caused MARY to be stoned to death for adultery. You forget that "No fault" did not exist in those days.

gr8Dad
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 09:35 AM
I say it should go BEYOND that...

...if we started doing DNA tests at birth, THINK about the HUGE database of DNA "prints" we would have? ANY crime committed could be solved in MINUTES (you drop an average of a million skin cells a DAY) and based on DNA.

Of course, there would be those that would fight to beat it, but we would have somewhere to start once we have a DNA sample from the scene.


almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 09:38 AM
Re: Sorry, but you are mistaken...

Also paternity didn't exist and absent any cause to believe she'd been unfaithful, why do you assume they'd take his word over hers?

Besides, do you really believe God would have allowed his unborn son to be stoned with the mother? :P


almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 09:39 AM
Those that fight it...

claim its letting the government into our lives too much. So? They have your DNA on file? Big woopie. What are they going to do, violate your DNA?

*I* say those that fight it have something to hide.


gr8Dad
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 09:43 AM
Because it was 1 BC...

...and women were not at the same level that they are now. His word would have been taken, and she would be dead.

"Besides, do you really believe God would have allowed his unborn son to be stoned with the mother?"

That would be cruel, huh? Better to allow him to survive, grow up in ridicule, be arrested and convicted, beaten, and eventually crucified. LOL, maybe the kid would have been better off if she HAD been stoned?


cincsu
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 10:56 AM
Re: I wonder what...

If someone lied to me about a child the last thing I would be doing is signing myself up for financial obligation. Doesn't mean I wouldn't try to maintain a relationship with the child....but giving her a chunk of my income? Hell no. Shouldn't he be allowed to keep his money so he has a chance one day to have children of his own and give them a decent life. Not his fault his ex is a bleep, not the childs fault either. But he has shared enough of the burden and shouldn't have to do anymore.

Lester
(recently joined)
04/27/08 11:01 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

It is my fault not to include more details when I posted the last message.

I was defrauded by both my wife and the child. I have just found out that my wife has been in contact with the man (my daughter's biological father who is not USA) all these years. The child knows about this and did not tell me!!! My love for the child is completely gone. My wife wants to file for divorce because she wants to marry this man and sponsor him to immigrate to USA. They are going to "re-unite" in a complete family and while I will be left with a completely broken heart.

Ethically I am pretty sure that I should not pay child support. My question is that if this case goes to court, is my wife's request for child support going to be rejected by the judge for sure? I am a low-income earner and I can not afford to hire a lawyer for my divorce in court. So any legal advice is very helpful.


spinnerdegrassi
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 11:10 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

Sounds like she planned this scam all along.

Relayer
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 11:11 AM
Re: I wonder what...

[quote]Not to dampen this jovial joking conversation, but in reality, Joseph would likely have been stoned to death for abandoning a wife and child. [/quote]

You need to read the Bible and a couple of history books. Mary would have been stoned if the kid wasn't his (which is exactly what he was afraid of)..LOL..they didnt stone men in those days for that kind of stuff..in fact, when it came to children, women basically had NO rights to the kid..the father was all that mattered.


gr8Dad
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 11:17 AM
Not to mention...

...that she said, "Joseph would have been stoned to death for abandoning his wife and child", when he found out, there was no child, she was pregnant.

Of course, folks like AH like to think that women are ENTITLED to certain things and that is the way it has always been.


Relayer
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 11:17 AM
Re: I wonder what...

[quote]If someone lied to me about a child the last thing I would be doing is signing myself up for financial obligation. Doesn't mean I wouldn't try to maintain a relationship with the child....but giving her a chunk of my income? Hell no. Shouldn't he be allowed to keep his money so he has a chance one day to have children of his own and give them a decent life. Not his fault his ex is a bleep, not the childs fault either. But he has shared enough of the burden and shouldn't have to do anymore. [/quote]

Exactly, but some will look for free unearned money anywhere they can. I like your point about having children of his own. His OWN. It's hard to support someone elses child as well as moving on and having your own kid(s).

I still dont think he even has a moral obligation to the child. He really doesnt owe the kid anything. What he chooses to do is what he chooses. It would be nice to help out in some capacity but there is no moral obligation in this one.


Relayer
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 11:20 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

[quote]It is my fault not to include more details when I posted the last message.

I was defrauded by both my wife and the child. I have just found out that my wife has been in contact with the man (my daughter's biological father who is not USA) all these years. The child knows about this and did not tell me!!! My love for the child is completely gone. My wife wants to file for divorce because she wants to marry this man and sponsor him to immigrate to USA. They are going to "re-unite" in a complete family and while I will be left with a completely broken heart.

Ethically I am pretty sure that I should not pay child support. My question is that if this case goes to court, is my wife's request for child support going to be rejected by the judge for sure? I am a low-income earner and I can not afford to hire a lawyer for my divorce in court. So any legal advice is very helpful. [/quote]

I suspected your love for the kid was gone. It's natural.

Nothing is for sure in court though. You might be saddled with another 13 years of support. You need a good lawyer to get you out of this.


googledad
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 11:25 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

My question is that if this case goes to court, is my wife's request for child support going to be rejected by the judge for sure?


>>>>>>>>>>> No , CS can be ordered until paternity is established/disestablished . Washington State has awesome online resources for family law and court forms , they can be found here :

http://www.courts.wa.gov/forms/



I am a low-income earner and I can not afford to hire a lawyer for my divorce in court. So any legal advice is very helpful.

>>>>>>>>>>>> A lawyer would be helpful , paternity disestablishment will not be easy but needs to be done or you could find yourself owing a boatload of support down the road .


Lester
(recently joined)
04/27/08 12:03 PM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

Thanks a lot for all the warm-hearted advice!!! You guys are really awesome!!!!!!

Renee
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 02:53 PM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

"My question is that if this case goes to court, is my wife's request for child support going to be rejected by the judge for sure? "

I don't know for sure, but I can damn sure hope so. I'm very sorry your wife is such a Grade A Biotch. I hope that this situation doesn't poison your attitude towards women in general. I may be overly optimistic, but I would like to believe that the majority of women out there are not such dishonest, manipulative and morally bankrupt pieces of dog poo. Lying about the paternity is reprehensible enough, but to drag the daughter into the lie....

Good Luck to you -- and find one HECK of a lawyer.


RJ1
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 03:18 PM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

I was researching paternity the other day. In some states you only have three years to contest paternity. I'm no attorney...but you may be screwed.

RJ


gr8Dad
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 03:32 PM
I think the three year rule...

...is from the time that you become reasonably aware of the situation. Of course, I could be wrong.

RJ1
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 04:19 PM
Re: I think the three year rule...

http://www.law.msu.edu/amicus/wi_2003-04/paternity.html

Michigan is among a growing number of states seeking to enact a paternity fraud law. About 12 states currently have some form of paternity fraud law that permits a man who learns he is not the child’s biological father to vacate an order that previously established his legal parenthood. Several of these, like Michigan’s proposed statute, are open-ended, such that the man can file his motion to vacate his paternity at any time—for example, five, 10 or 15 years after the child’s birth. Still others have a stricter statute of limitations of two to three years.

He needs to get a really good attorney.

RJ


RJ1
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 04:21 PM
Re: LMAO! I had to laugh...

No way I could fall out of love with a child I loved, raised and held for five years as my own...NOPE!

RJ


almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 04:42 PM
Re: Because it was 1 BC...

Perhaps, but then we'd have no Bible and the story would be a moot point, as it would never have existed. ;)

almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 04:44 PM
Re: I wonder what...

Which is why he'd have been stoned...for abandoning the kid. And...because as I mentioned in my other post, he was the son of God. God wouldn't have allowed it to happen, or we wouldn't have a Bible to read. I can promise you I know more of the Bible than you could learn in a lifetime hon.

almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 04:44 PM
Re: Not to mention...

I guess you'll have to translate this gibberish.

almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 04:47 PM
My advice is to forget what you can afford...

FIND a way to get a lawyer. You really really really need one. At the least, get quite a few free consults under your belt to point you in the direction to go with this. If she ASKS for CS and you do not contest it and seek paternity testing under the court, you will likely end up paying CS.

almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 04:48 PM
Please keep in mind...

This child is 5? She does what she's told to do. A child of this age did not MEAN to defraud you. They don't even know what that word means. Do not blame this on an innocent child. She is as much a victim of her mom's machinations are you are.

SCgirl
(enthusiast)
04/27/08 05:42 PM
Re: Please keep in mind...

[quote]This child is 5? She does what she's told to do. A child of this age did not MEAN to defraud you. They don't even know what that word means. Do not blame this on an innocent child. She is as much a victim of her mom's machinations are you are. [/quote]

I was thinking the same thing. How does one actually get "defrauded" by a 5 year old? The screwed up mother yes, but a five year old? He should be feeling sorry for this child who is an innocent victim...


Relayer
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 06:37 PM
Re: I wonder what...

[quote]Which is why he'd have been stoned...for abandoning the kid. And...because as I mentioned in my other post, he was the son of God. God wouldn't have allowed it to happen, or we wouldn't have a Bible to read. I can promise you I know more of the Bible than you could learn in a lifetime hon. [/quote]

12 years in Catholic school and 48 years of mass every Sunday...LOL..doubt it..they didn't stone men in those days for anything except blasphemy against God.

Aside from the relious part, just saying it demonstrates what an uneducated hick you are.


Relayer
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 06:39 PM
Re: Please keep in mind...

[quote][quote]This child is 5? She does what she's told to do. A child of this age did not MEAN to defraud you. They don't even know what that word means. Do not blame this on an innocent child. She is as much a victim of her mom's machinations are you are. [/quote]

I was thinking the same thing. How does one actually get "defrauded" by a 5 year old? The screwed up mother yes, but a five year old? He should be feeling sorry for this child who is an innocent victim... [/quote]


He said the child also has known. The only victim in this is the man, but of course, you women can never ever see a man as a victim. To some of you, if Charles Manson was Charlene Manson, you would see him as the good guy.


SCgirl
(enthusiast)
04/27/08 06:52 PM
Re: Please keep in mind...

What don't you get? The child in question is FIVE YEARS OLD! Children that age are very easily manipulated. You honestly don't know that?

Charlene Manson??? Are you serious? Are we reading the same thing? Where in this thread has ANYONE defended the mother? I think it is very apparent that everyone here AGREES that the mother is very much in the wrong! You always want to play "the man is always the victim routine" but that is really getting old.

I don't think there is one post defending the mother. I sure am not. You obviously read into things what you want. The child is most assuredly one of the vicitms as is the OP.


almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 07:04 PM
Hey idiot!

Its a FIVE YEAR OLD CHILD. So what. They KNEW. And mom told them "Don't say anything or no recess"...whatever. The CHILD is ALSO a victim in this. You want to pull the man only a victim crap, think about what you're saying. NO ONE said the MOTHER was a victim. That's just your stupidity shining through again.

almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 07:04 PM
Re: Please keep in mind...

He's got too much medication in his system to know WTF he's reading...or saying.

almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/27/08 07:07 PM
So?

Try having the Bible misrepresented by an ex who was a Jesus fanatic. You learn, trust me, you learn. And I have access to a hell of a lot more religious material than you do, I'll guarantee you. Hubby studied it, in many forms, INCLUDING Catholicism. So I've had access and some immersion into more than just one religion.

Mary's child was GOD'S child. Stoning the mother, ergo the unborn child of God, would have been a HELL of a lot worse than blasphemy.

Your idiocy only demonstrates that you need to cut back on your meds.


matart1
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/28/08 06:33 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

what does moral obligation have to do with it exactly...??

would not the mother have the moral obligation first of making sure this man did not falsely believe he was the father...??


matart1
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/28/08 06:43 AM
Re: I wonder what...

your conversations on the OT of this is funny - anyone with a remote sense of history would know that in a situation where the woman was pregnant by another man she would be killed and the child also.

son of God...that matters how...didn't Jesus die anyway. I did not read of any intervention of God stopping that from happening....


Relayer
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/28/08 06:43 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

[quote]what does moral obligation have to do with it exactly...??

would not the mother have the moral obligation first of making sure this man did not falsely believe he was the father...?? [/quote]

Of course, but to some, that never enters the equation


SCgirl
(enthusiast)
04/28/08 07:18 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

[quote]what does moral obligation have to do with it exactly...??

would not the mother have the moral obligation first of making sure this man did not falsely believe he was the father...?? [/quote]

OF COURSE SHE DOES!!! Who said she didn't??


Relayer
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/28/08 08:01 AM
Re: Paternity Question and Child Support

What was stated was that he had the moral obligation, not her.

almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
04/29/08 07:50 AM
Re: I wonder what...

Yabbut, in this case, God wanted him to die at a certain time and in a certain manner. ;)


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