| Im_Hosed |
| (recently joined) |
| 07/16/07 04:23 PM |
Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Grounds?
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My wife of over 15 years just told me a few weeks ago that she doesn't love me anymore and wants out. I knew she wasn't happy and had "checked out" a while ago but it is still a shock to get to this point. She wants no reconciliation and just wants out but wants primary custody of our two young (under 12) children. She wants a mediated separation agreement yesterday. Unfortunately I am the breadwinner and she has only recently begun to work (at minimal wages). Being that I work full time, it would be difficult for me to argue for primary residence. If I simply ignore this (assuming I can live with someone who wants nothing to do with me) can she still force a divorce? I am a loving father who has done nothing but provide for my family's every need. No arguing, abuse, etc. If anything, I love her with all my heart but she just doesn't love me anymore. Shouldn't she be the one who leaves? Can she take down an "innocent man" with an attorney? I also don't want this to be adversarial for the kids sake (neither does she). Any comments?
| googledad |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 07/16/07 04:47 PM |
Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Grounds?
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Yes , a separation agreement is the easiest and cheapest way to divorce , but with muliple filings ( CS , SS , child custody can all be done in Family Court ) you could be bled dry and have no recourse but to settle .
| almostheaven |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 07/16/07 06:36 PM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Grounds?
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Anyone can leave/divorce anyone at any time. You can't stop that. Have you tried to sit down and have a serious discussion with her about whether she'd be willing to try and work through any problems you have, going to marital counseling, etc.? Yes, she can leave, force you to leave, and it can BECOME adversarial. If she's dead set on it and won't try to work it out, then you need an ATTORNEY yesterday, not an agreement that fast. Signing anything in haste will be your downfall. You need to argue for joint custody. Over 15 years, she MAY get some type of alimony. Even though she's now working, since its minimal, she may still get something. She would DEFINATELY get CS, even if you get joint. But she'd get less than she would if she had full custody. Don't just go in thinking YOU can't get things and let her talk you into signing anything away.
| NancyD |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 07/16/07 07:45 PM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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New York has two options for divorce...Fault or No-fault. For a no-fault divorce, both parties have to be in agreement about the divorce and sign a legal separation agreement. After a period of time (it's a year or two...don't have my facts on that, sorry) goes by, they can then file for a no-fault divorce.
Since many people who want out are not willing to wait that period of time, they have to look at the Fault categories and decide if they can file under one of those. Even couples who are in agreement about the divorce decide to go his route in order to get it over with as quickly as possible. They often chose "Abandonment" as the fault.
However, in order to get a reluctant spouse into negotiations, they often start out with something along the lines of getting a restraining order for physical/mental/emotional abuse and then file for divorce claiming that. That is the danger of trying to stay in the house when one spouse wants out. If things devolve, you could find yourself charged with all sorts of false accusations simply because she wants you OUT. The truth is, for the initial temporary court order of protection, she does NOT have to have much evidence. But that would be enough to get to you to move out...you'd HAVE to.
| Im_Hosed |
| (recently joined) |
| 07/16/07 09:37 PM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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man..this sucks. So if she agrees to Joint custody with the primary residence of the kids at her address, the CS would/should be less than the standard 25% for two kids in NY? I would like to know some of this before we start meeting with any type of mediation service. Would most reputable mediation services point out this fact?
I don't want to go the attorney route because when you really think about it, everyone loses, especially the kids (and her wanting out is still the same outcome). I just want to ensure the best settlement for my financial future so I can be in a better position when I am involved in my children's lives as well as move on with mine.
| googledad |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 07/16/07 11:21 PM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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Voice of experience talking here , I live in NY as well . If you have true 50/50 custody/visitation you can expect to pay full chld support . Even with true 50/50 the parent that earns more WILL pay CS with a 50% credit .
| NancyD |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 07/17/07 05:12 AM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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Joint custody does not effect the percentage of basic CS unless your STBX agrees to it. However, for CS purposes, I believe NY caps the income at $80,000.
You could push for any extra expenses to be paid pro rata (according to income). That would be for things that are not covered by CS such as extracurricular activities.
| Im_Hosed |
| (recently joined) |
| 07/17/07 07:50 AM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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Thanks everyone who has replied. I will take it one step at a time and see how it goes w/ a mediated separation agreement. Until I sign, it means nothing anyway. A lawyer is always the last resort but that is a runaway train that I do not want to get on...
| madalex |
| (enthusiast) |
| 07/17/07 08:20 AM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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Quote:
Thanks everyone who has replied. I will take it one step at a time and see how it goes w/ a mediated separation agreement. Until I sign, it means nothing anyway. A lawyer is always the last resort but that is a runaway train that I do not want to get on...
A lawyer should not be your last resort, but your first. If your wife has already made this decision irrevocably, she is several steps ahead of you in the divorce planning and has likely already consulted a lawyer (even if she hasn't told you this). You need a lawyer now to help you with this.
| Im_Hosed |
| (recently joined) |
| 07/17/07 08:33 AM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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I did consult one but did not retain. They told me to:
Keep my mouth shut
Hands to myself
Do nothing until I am sent some sort of papers
All this because she has no grounds. I have heard that some people use "constructive abandonment" as a grounds to force the issue. I can't see how that works because I thought the purpose was for the person who WANTS sex and is not getting it can use that reason to leave. I want sex so how can that be used as grounds? We are both still in the same house.
I know she has consulted an attorney (she told me) but has not retained one (she does not have any $ for it). They would have to do it on future proceeds. There aren't too many good lawyers who work like that when a case could drag on for a looong time.
| NancyD |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 07/17/07 11:16 AM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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They use "constructive abodonment" to get around the waiting period for the no-fault divorce. It's less onerous than the other faults.
| NancyD |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 07/17/07 11:17 AM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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They use "constructive abandonment" to get around the waiting period for the no-fault divorce. It's less onerous than the other faults.
| almostheaven |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 07/17/07 12:00 PM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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I don't think a lawyer IS a last resort. Before you sign ANYTHING, you really need a lawyer working for YOU looking it over. You don't know all the laws, so you won't know if you're getting what you would fairly get through a court. And you may miss subtleties in any agreement that will cost you later on. Its worth a small fee to have a lawyer look over any legal documents that can have lasting repercussions on your life before you put pen to paper. I'm not saying you need a lawyer to fight. But you need one to protect your interests.
| almostheaven |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 07/17/07 12:04 PM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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Just hope she hasn't consulted with an unscrupulous lawyer, or unscrupulous friends. Hands to yourself won't help if she CLAIMS you abused her. The claim alone will get you out of the house. Just like she can CLAIM you refused sex. You can tell the judge all you want that its not true, but it all comes down to who the judge believes.
These are also reasons why having an attorney on your side is a GOOD idea. Just in case. You don't want to be without one should the shyt hit the fan.
| yregna |
| (veteran) |
| 07/17/07 12:53 PM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Grounds?
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Quote " I also don't want this to be adversarial for the kids sake (neither does she). Any comments? "
If you don't want " adversarial " you will lose all you have worked for...Plus you are teaching your kids that it is OK to screw someone over and steal a whole ton of money ? Is that a good lesson for them ? Maybe they are both daughters....
With that said you made a terrible mistake letting a women live with you and NOT WORK. Once they are on the gravy train, the law guarantees you fuel the train. They won't get off voluntarily.
Best course of action for you is:
1. Arrange a fatal " accident " for your STBX.
2. Withdraw all funds and move and work under the table. Many, many men do it every day. ( Don't worry 'bout the kids, practically and legally you have no right to see them, only to pay for them )
3. Suicide. Solves all the problems at once.
I hope you feel obligated to tell all men, especially younger ones, how marriage " worked out " for you so well...
| Im_Hosed |
| (recently joined) |
| 07/17/07 01:12 PM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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with the exception of the bitter post above, I thank you all. Yes, I would certainly have someone look over the agreement BEFORE I sign anything. AlmostH: What is your background/motivation on this board? Just curious for us newbies...
| almostheaven |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 07/17/07 01:22 PM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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Please ignore the idiot above. We're hoping DSource will take notice and eventually boot his sorry butt.
Like most everyone here, I'm here because I've been faced with divorce issues. Some come for advice, some come to give advice, some come to commiserate with others who've been through it. I initially starting seeking divorce forums the moment I got on the internet back around 96 or 97 to find out about child support...since my ex then owed over $10K arrears and wasn't paying support at the time...as usual. I've been through two divorces, and have experienced a lot more through a large family and through friends' divorces, from both sides of the fence, either male or female. After finding out all I could do about my own CS case, I just kinda hung around. I guess its the commiseration part.
| yregna |
| (veteran) |
| 07/18/07 03:16 PM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Grounds?
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Perhaps after the divorce is finalized, and you realize how much dough you are out, you'll post again and tell me how not being " adversarial " worked out for you...
| Im_Hosed |
| (recently joined) |
| 07/18/07 03:19 PM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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Honestly dude -you really are so entrenched in bitterness that there is no debating you. The reality is that I am out $ no matter what. I might as well make a bad situation as good as I can to live w/ my family and future rather than turn it into more of a nightmare. If you let the dark side take hold, it only makes you look back and not forward.
| PhoenixRising |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 07/18/07 04:09 PM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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First, if you click on yregna name, scroll down to the lower right corner, choose "ignore this user".. You won't have to read his bile...
Second, NYS is the last state in the Nation where grounds have to be proven.. in order to petition for divorce.
If you fight and have a grounds trial, you will probably win.
I contested grounds, the good news is that my ex had to withdraw for lack of evidence.. The bad news was that is took 2yrs to get to the point where we argued grounds. During which time my ex was malicious, vindictive, destructive, abusive, malevolent, cruel, nasty, wicked, spiteful, mean (ya get my drift)..
He filed 22 child abuse charges, required me to go through 2 psych evaluations, he wore me down emotionally, mentally, and physically..
And after enduring ALL that I ended up STILL married.. Needless to say, it was definitely a case of "Be careful of what you ask for" you might get it...
Obviously like you, I didn't know my spouse was capable of such horrendous behavior. I thought this "I want a divorce" was just a phase and he would get over it. Because like you I couldn't see the reason for it.
So while I agree w/ your attorney. The ball is in her court. It will be expensive for her to go forward if you won’t agree on grounds. You are in a good negotiating position..
The BAD news in NYS that is NO joint or 50/50 custody if the parties won’t voluntarily agree. If she is smart, she will agree to 50/50 and you will agree to grounds and this could go relatively painlessly..
Or you can end up going my route over 3yrs and hundreds of thousands of dollars where no one wins…
| Relayer |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 07/19/07 06:33 AM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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Quote:
Honestly dude -you really are so entrenched in bitterness that there is no debating you. The reality is that I am out $ no matter what. I might as well make a bad situation as good as I can to live w/ my family and future rather than turn it into more of a nightmare. If you let the dark side take hold, it only makes you look back and not forward.
Seriously dude, yes yrenga comes off as radical and he is but honestly, you need to protect yourself now or down the line you will be sorry. In your situation, the odds are grim and unfortunately, divorce tends to bring out the worst in people. Most here will agree "the one they loved" suddently turned into a raving lunatic..a "person they never knew"..that is a sorry fact in a lot of divorces..if divorces went as planned and were fair and there were no problems, Divorce Source wouldn't exist. You have a stbx who hasn't worked much, wants the kids, will get the house and you make decent dough..this IS NOT GOING TO TURN OUT WELL..believe me...
I blame a lot of it on lawyers, who whip their clients up into quite a frenzy (on both sides). Going into your first divorce, you absoultely need an attorney. Never go pro se until you at least learn some of the code of civil procedure..you WILL be HOSED otherwise...
| Im_Hosed |
| (recently joined) |
| 07/19/07 09:03 AM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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Excellent and insightful feedback both of you -thank you.
| Lotsoflight |
| (member) |
| 07/19/07 09:32 AM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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Getting an attorney does not mean things will suddenly become contentious, it means you are protecting yourself. My ex's behavior towards me and willingness to FAIRLY work things out spoke volumes over whether or not he had an attorney.
| Im_Hosed |
| (recently joined) |
| 07/19/07 09:39 AM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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ATTENTION ALL READERS OF THIS THREAD: I am not against engaging an Attorney! I have one on the hook but I am going to mediate an agreement with what I think are fair terms and then have him/her look at it BEFORE I actually sign anything. If I don't sign, it just means we are back to square 1 but I now know the parameters of my STBX negotiating position. Win-win as far as I can tell as it keeps things civil in the beginning without handing my control off to a lawyer right away (saves a lot of $ too). Thank you.
| Lotsoflight |
| (member) |
| 07/19/07 10:06 AM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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Quote:
ATTENTION ALL READERS OF THIS THREAD: I am not against engaging an Attorney! I have one on the hook but I am going to mediate an agreement with what I think are fair terms and then have him/her look at it BEFORE I actually sign anything. If I don't sign, it just means we are back to square 1 but I now know the parameters of my STBX negotiating position. Win-win as far as I can tell as it keeps things civil in the beginning without handing my control off to a lawyer right away (saves a lot of $ too). Thank you.
Which is exactly what we are doing. We sat down and looked through all the financials and discussed custody, noted it and turned it into the attorney.
| Im_Hosed |
| (recently joined) |
| 07/26/07 10:11 AM |
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Re: Can a Wife force a Divorce in NY with no Groun
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Update: My stepmother has intervened and calmed things down. We are both in counseling and did a marathon 2 hour session this week! A lot of things were said but it looks like the crisis is averted (for now) as we have both agreed to try and make it work. Thank you all for you assistance -let's hope it lasts...