pepperh
(recently joined)
07/19/07 03:10 PM
Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

My ex likes to try to "pull a fast one" on me, and he is about to yet again. I want to be armed with some facts when he does, and I was hoping someone could answer a question for me.

Our NEBRASKA decree states we are to split payment on "non-reimbursed medical expenses", my part being approx. 35% (same as my child support).

Am I required to pay for any cosmetic enhancements (braces) if he has never discussed the need for them with me?

My daughter told me over summer visitation (in June) that she was getting them. As of today, she has them. He has never discussed this with me (the need for them or that he was doing it) , and quite frankly, when I moved to TX from NE, I lost about $10,000.00 a year in income, yet I still pay child support based off the NE income. Needless to say, I'm tapped, and simply can't afford another bill to pay. I know he is going to tell me I need to pay part of it, but I was under the assumption that he HAS to discuss this with me, otherwise, it's his choice and his bill.

Thanks!


matart1
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
07/19/07 03:37 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

what does the wording in your decree state..??

is there sole or joint legal/custody..??

I understand you may be tapped out of your pay but you took a voluntary $10,000 decrease in pay and moved away from your daughter.

would you deny your duaghter dental or medical treatment over a lack of discussion.

do you have proof of a second opinion that your daughter is getting braces because of cosmetic treatment or is it because medically she needs them..??

not everyone gets braces because it is cosmetic.

if you took her to an orthodontic surgeon for a second opinion and they said that she did not require braces, then you may have reason to be angry.

braces should have been discussed as it is a large expense to prepare for but if the two of you are not adult even to discuss the child's welfare then you are going to run into a lot of bigger issues down the road....


pepperh
(recently joined)
07/19/07 04:10 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

<< what does the wording in your decree state..?? >> It states were are to split the non-reimbursed medical expenses per the percentage used in child support. He is to present me with a bill, which I have to pay within 14 days. It also says I have a say in the upbringing of my children, which obviously didn't happen here as this was never discussed with me ahead of time.

<< is there sole or joint legal/custody..?? >> Joint legal.

<< I understand you may be tapped out of your pay but you took a voluntary $10,000 decrease in pay and moved away from your daughter. >> Your walking a fine line with that statement.

<< would you deny your duaghter dental or medical treatment over a lack of discussion.>> It's not about the braces. It's about the continuing control he tries to place on me. I am trying to stand my ground and let him know he cant keep doing this to me. Will I pay for them? Yes. I'll take another job to pay for them, but not because HE tells me I HAVE to. I'd do it for my daughter. However, i'm not about to make this easy on HIM and I want to know - do I HAVE to pay, legally?

<< do you have proof of a second opinion that your daughter is getting braces because of cosmetic treatment or is it because medically she needs them..?? >> I dont even have a first opinion! This was never discussed. I have no idea WHAT is going on besides the email I got today from my daughter saying she got braces today.


almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
07/19/07 05:47 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

Legally...not yet. Ortho is sometimes considered cosmetic, so its grey. Its something he'd have to get the court to enforce and they may determine it is or isn't necessary. If it IS necessary, they're going to determine that and order you to pay, PLUS, you'd both be out attorney fees, AND he may ask the court that you be responsible for HIS attorney and likely get it. So if it was necessary, you should work out payment arrangements with him and ask that in the future if he could let you know ahead of time that something like this is going to need done so you can prepare for it.

<< I understand you may be tapped out of your pay but you took a voluntary $10,000 decrease in pay and moved away from your daughter. >> Your walking a fine line with that statement.

Why? I thought the same thing. Why is ANYONE walking any kind of line to only get what you provide? If there's more to it, you need to state it, otherwise, to anyone reading, you're a parent who voluntarily moved AWAY from your child AND for lesser money. No other information was given.


PhoenixRising
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
07/19/07 05:47 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

It depends on what your CO says. If it says that you have joint custody but he has final decision making authority OR if he has sole custody.. Then no, he doesn't have to get you to agree.

ssmom79
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
07/20/07 09:41 AM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

You say he's trying to pull a fast one like he went out and got her braces just so you would have to pay 1/2. I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that, but that was my impression of your post.

When you saw her in June and she said something about it, did you look at her teeth for yourself?


tigerlily
(newbie)
07/20/07 01:05 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

What is the exact wording in your CO in regards to you having a "say in the upbringing of the child?" Is that it, if so, it's a little vague.

I'm confused...I believe it wasn't stated that the pay cut was "voluntary" and my question would be why would that have anything to do with it anyway?

So my DH ex, who chose to work at a low income job, when she could be making more at friggin Walmart, she should then be paying more toward bills because that is voluntary cut in pay then, right?

If a NCP, during his/her parenting time, had braces put on his/her child, returned the child to the CP and handed them the bill and said here you go, time to pay your share. Didn't discuss it with them or anything. I think many CPs would take issue because not everyone can afford to pay for braces at the drop of the hat (within 14 days I believe she mentioned), with no notice.

Also, because she moved away, experienced a cut in pay, that means that the CP doesn't have to consult before putting braces on the child? I get the point that it's a done deal, but WTF?

Are you able to communicate about other medical treatment in the past or is this a reoccuring issue?

My DH ex does stuff like this and worse, constantly so
I understand your concern and the point you are trying to make. My DH and his ex went through a modification this year and exactly what you describe was a MAJOR concern as one of his kids will be needing braces. Not that DH won't pay his share for braces. Not that he won't pay for his share of the medical bills. But that she would just do it, without discussing any of it with him in advance. In our case, BM has a history of not telling DH about medical/dental bills, she let's them go to collections or in a few cases, her funds were condemned before DH even knew a bill existed or that any treatment occured. He's gotten better at tracking things down himself as he's been burned numerous times. Usually an argument for her to even present a bill, in one instance she did provide a bill several years ago and a year later DH learned that she didn't give him the entire bill, only part, and that part had gone to collections! She cannot organize a bill to save her life, but yet she takes them nonstop for medical treatment, doesn't pay ANY of her portion, but doesn't even tell DH so he can pay his portion. DH and I supplied attorneys with a 200 page binder of medical bills DH had to track down, organize and calculate on his own, sometimes a difficult tast with some medical institutions, because she would not supply or tell him about ANYTHING. What did she provide to the attorneys? She didn't have any, nothing, nada, zip, and some were statments that SHE receives monthly and does not pay and she had the audactiy to accuse DH that he doesn't pay his share....when the documentation proved that she wasn't paying ANY of her share and that DH has continuously paid his portion on bills he knew of. DH pays regularly but doesn't get the benefit of the monthly statement without jumping hoops to get it. DH was concerned about the braces, she would not tell him, just do it, DH would have to track down the dentist and go through everything that should have been done in advance, arranging payment, discussing it with BM, etc. He put a stop to it with the wording in the modification, probably won't work though, she'll still do whatever she wants.

Sorry to ramble on, just wanted to present another possible side. I just thought the original post came across as someone who *may* have gotten burned in the past with medical bills/consulting for treatment and maybe not just necessarily one who was trying to get out of paying a bill.


pepperh
(recently joined)
07/20/07 05:38 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

I've never been burned in the past with medical bills. It's more along the lines of what you said - "handed them the bill and said here you go, time to pay your share. Didn't discuss it with them or anything...not everyone can afford to pay for braces at the drop of the hat with no notice."

Granted, my daughter teeth are bad, and braces would do her esteem some good, but for goodness sakes...i save up every month to drive 5 to 10 hours to see my kids (if he wont meet me halfway), and now this gets sprung on me? It's simply frustrating to me that he still has to try to control me this way.

I already spoke with an attorney and he told me eventually I will have to pay it (which I planned on doing anyways). However, according to my decree, he has to cover the first $1,200 a year in non-reimbursed medical expenses. That being the case, he has to send me copies of all insurance claims, all EOBs, all bills for the portions not covered and proof of his payment. Then each month he has to pay the entire bill, and send me a copy of it, with proof of his monthly payment, and within 14 days, I reimburse him my 35%. Simple enough, however, the ex will make a huge case of it. His loss. if he doesn't want to follow the decree, he doesn't get the payment. Simple enough. I'm tired of him trying to bully me. Time for this redhead to put her foot down.


almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
07/20/07 06:10 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

>>>>>I'm confused...I believe it wasn't stated that the pay cut was "voluntary" and my question would be why would that have anything to do with it anyway?<<<<<

Well she stated when she moved she lost income. So its stated like she moved first for some reason, CAUSING the loss in income. She didn't state a reason WHY she moved. So unless its for some serious illness or she's military, its voluntary. Meaning the decreased income was also voluntary. She did the right thing in that she didn't get the support lowered. BUT...as with any NCP, if you move away from your child, you put a distance there, you make communication between you and your child AND you and your ex, more difficult. You're not around for the daily stuff, and therefore, you may find you don't get informed of everything. Don't know all the circumstances here, which is why I said she needs to state more if there's more to it. But don't accuse people of walking some thin line when all that have to go on is the little she provided. Martart did not say ANYTHING out of line, accusatory, or negative in any way. She stated a fact of what was said, in the context of she may have lost some of her joint decisions by creating this distance and possible communication problem.


almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
07/20/07 06:12 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

In every case, they MUST send you the EOB BEFORE you have to pay anything at all. Then you have at least 30 days. For a large expense like this, a court would likely work out a payment plan. So as long as you make reasonable payments on the EOB, starting within 30 days from the date you receive them, there's not really a thing he'll be able to do.

pepperh
(recently joined)
07/20/07 06:46 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

I am a military spouse. My husband was moved after serving ten years at the base in the city my children live in.

I love my children, but I also love myself, and my husband. So, as you state the choice to move was voluntary, I bet there's not many wifes or husbands in the world who would tell their spouse, "Sorry, we gotta stop being married because your job is moving me away from my kids." Had the move been overseas, I would have considered it much more than I did this time. That's not to say I didnt agonize over the decision in the first place. But my happiness means something to me, too, and I would still make the same decision today, feeling the way I do. If anything, this move has improved my relationship with my kids.


almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
07/20/07 07:02 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

Not a problem. As I said, unless illness or *military*, it would be considered voluntary. But Martart didn't know you had to move for those reasons, nor what your relationship was before or after the move, with your kids. Some NCPs move away, create a distance, a communication barrier, then complain when the CP presents them with a bill they didn't discuss with them first.

pepperh
(recently joined)
07/20/07 07:06 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

I'm sorry for getting defensive, but I've heard the "you made the decision, so it's your fault" speech many times already from people who haven't walked a mile in my shoes...i'm sure you get the picture.

chester1967
(recently joined)
07/21/07 02:51 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

Quick question maybe someone can help.. my ex and I pay medical and dental expenses 50/50. I pay monthly for medical and dental insurance for my children.

In the spirit of fairness and our paying half each of all medical and dental bills, shouldn't she pay me half of the extra money I pay for medical and dental insurance?

Besides saying that would be fair, is there anything to back me up on that?

Thanks


1004SRS
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
07/21/07 03:41 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

I pay medical and dental for the kiddos. A percentage is included in my child support.

Redlegg
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
07/21/07 04:50 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

I pay 100% of all medical and dental, insurance and anything beyond, and it is seperate from CS.

Goodmom
(Pooh-Bah)
07/21/07 06:19 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

Quote:

Quick question maybe someone can help.. my ex and I pay medical and dental expenses 50/50. I pay monthly for medical and dental insurance for my children.

In the spirit of fairness and our paying half each of all medical and dental bills, shouldn't she pay me half of the extra money I pay for medical and dental insurance?

Besides saying that would be fair, is there anything to back me up on that?

Thanks




The medical and dental premiums are usually factored into child support as either a credit (the amount is net of tax benefit) to the ncp if the ncp is providing the insurance, therefore lowering the child support or as part of the child support (again net of tax benefit) when it is the cp providing the health insurance, meaning that the ncp pays more child support.

Look into your state guidelines and see how they handle health insurance premiums.


almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
07/21/07 08:21 PM
Re: Paying NonReimburese Medical Expenses?

If you pay 50/50, I'd assume that's because your court order SAYS 50/50? If so, the order is just as binding to her. What's the wording?

almostheaven
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
07/21/07 08:23 PM
Ooops...

I thought he asked if she had to pay him half of the medical he paid. Kinda missed that he was talking about the insurance. In that case, not if he's CO'd to carry the insurance 100%, then no.

Sherron
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
07/22/07 12:01 PM
Re: Ooops...

"Didn't discuss it with them or anything...not everyone can afford to pay for braces at the drop of the hat with no notice."

then why didn't you talk to him when dd told you last month she was getting them...you know, BEFORE she actually had them. Sure, bf should have talked to you, but you DID know of the possibility in advance. Frankly, I am tired of "parents" who want to find a way to skip out of a major expense that is necessary for their child because LEGALLY they may or may not have to pay for it. It's your child, too, and just because you aren't AROUND to help make some of those choices and take her to dr./dentist/ortho appointments, doesn't mean you don't have a moral obligation to contribute to the welfare of YOUR CHILD.


tigerlily
(newbie)
07/22/07 01:53 PM
Re: Ooops...

I'm also tired of "parents" who can't follow a damn decree and then get upset when the other party is just trying to follow the CO. She aready said she was GOING to PAY, but would do it technically as legally allowed. Why should she work with him and NOT follow the legalities of the CO when HE was supposed to discuss it in advance - oh wait, the CP in this case can get away with it, just because he can - his not following the CO doesn't cost him anything (she said the CO says she- the NCP- is to be involved in the 'upbringing of child' - somewhat vague, but a major medical expense would fall in the category). If you want to bring "morals" into it - Moral obligation doesn't mean just paying the doggon' bills. It is a moral obligation to pay for your child, but then in turn I would argue the other side- that the other parent also needs to be morally responsible and uphold their moral obligation and get off their $ss and talk to the other parent before a major medical expense, particularly when a CO dictates that is to happen. I'm sorry, but what you wrote sounded like only the NCP has to be "morally responsible", but not the CP - just because they are the CP. Again, I find it odd that a CP wouldn't be up in arms if an NCP returned the child from parenting time with braces on without the CP having any knowledge of it and just presented him/her with the bill. I guess that would be okay then if the NCP used the child to pass the message in advance, instead of talking to the actual PARENT about something which is clearly a parental discussion issue.

However, I would agree with you that the red flag was raised when the child told her she was getting them. To save myself the trouble even when the CP can't, I would have contacted the CP to discuss and would be thankful I got the red flag before the braces were on so it could be discussed how it was going to be handled/prepare for it.


Sherron
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
07/22/07 02:21 PM
Re: Ooops...

"but I was under the assumption that he HAS to discuss this with me, otherwise, it's his choice and his bill."

Obviously, the co doesn't address it, or she would know, not assume. Do you honestly think the cp wants to pay half of the bill, just to make the ncp pay the other half??


tigerlily
(newbie)
07/22/07 02:45 PM
Re: Ooops...

No, I honestly don’t think that.

It’s confusing because she also said: “It [referring to the co] also says I have a say in the upbringing of my children, which obviously didn't happen here as this was never discussed with me ahead of time.”

I wonder exactly what the co says.


Sherron
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
07/23/07 10:10 AM
Re: Ooops...

Agreed...I know MY co is pretty vague in some aspects, but I certainly hope her involvement is spelled out better than being allowed "a say in the upbringing of the children".

pepperh
(recently joined)
07/23/07 10:32 AM
Re: Ooops...

Sherron - I am NOT skipping out. I NEVER implied I wasnt going to pay. In fact, in a previous post, I said I was planning on paying, however, not on his demand. I simply asked if I HAD to pay, and if so, what the legalities were. The ex has a habit of demanding that I do things, and I'm tired of saying yes sir and doing it because HE says so.

And since you dont know the whole story - let me tell you. I found out mid June she was going to get braces. This is the first I ever heard of it. I logged every call I made to him, to find out what was going on. NOT ONE was returned. NOT ONE email was replied to. Then I found out she HAD braces. Again, not call or email was returned. How the hell is that fair to ME? So while you might be tired of NCP trying to "get out of paying", i'm sick and tired of some of the CP who just ASSUME the NCP's are made of money and can handle a bill without discussion.


Sherron
(Carpal \'Tunnel)
07/23/07 01:59 PM
Re: Ooops...

"Am I required to pay for any cosmetic enhancements (braces) if he has never discussed the need for them with me?"

Sorry if I had the impression from your post that you were looking for ways to not pay... my thought was that if you intended to pay, you wouldn't be asking if you were REQUIRED to do so...my bad...*sarcasm*...

Can the cp afford this bill?



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