| MamaKitty |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 02/14/06 07:54 PM |
Dog Custody
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Can you top this?
This is my second go-round in separation. The last separation lasted about a year, but just sort of went away because the BUMD (between little league and regular visitation) was at my house almost every evening, eating dinner with us and everything.
This time I am determined not to have that happen again, so I am avoiding some of the things that I think led to that happening last time; no phone calls, no meals together, etc. I started putting the youngest's carseat on the porch when he picked them up at 5:15, and then he kept opening my car and putting it back in when they returned at 7:20. I asked him several times to just leave the seat on the porch, but he wouldn't. I asked him for my car key back (he claimed in papers that each of our cars was to be our sole property), which he grudgingly did, but then tried to start fighting when he realized he was locked out of my car and had to put the seat on the porch.
Then, I realized he was opening the front door if I didn't get there fast enough, letting himself in, and then visiting with the dogs before pickup. He emailed me saying he wanted to give the dogs a fleabath but I told him they have a grooming appt. He has not offered any money for child support, but he offered money if I couldn't pay the groomer, which I declined.
Each time he has come to pick them up I have been more organized so there would be no reason he would need to come in, which is making him mad, and today had the kids on the porch (so he had no reason to come inside), which he wasn't pleased about. At the gate when I handed him the carseat he asked "You aren't letting me visit the dogs anymore?". I told him to not start anything up. Then he says, 'Can I have Adobe?". And I said no, you cannot. Then he starts to complain. At this point the kids start telling him 'just get another dog, daddy'. He keeps up the complaining that I got everything- the kids, the car, the house... but I say no, I haven't gotten anything, he's gotten everything he's asked for, and now he wants my dog? No, he's my dog. So then he threatens me that he is going to ask his lawyer to force me to give him the dog. I told him yeah, talk to his lawyer about it...at the same time he's talking about the house, because he still doesn't seem to understand that nobody just 'gets' the house, it will have to be sold to split whatever equity there is. And then I turned and walked back into the house because I didn't want a fight.
Yes, I got the dog while we were married. I went down to the SPCA for weeks looking for the right dog. I paid for him, I got him fixed, taught him tricks, to play ball. I take him to the groomers. After I got Adobe, I got Maggie, (to keep him company) from the pound later, and take care of both of them. We've had them about 3-4 years. I consider them my dogs, but NOW the BUMD (after seeing how good he was at ball with me, taught him to chase frisbees, cats, other dogs, people (meaning generally bad behaving dog)...taught him to jump over the fence so now he runs away several times a day if not watched, and has bitten 3 people since the BUMD started 'playing' with him) wants him.
He refused to take the dog for training last summer as promised, and when he left us at the first of the year, I had been having the dog trained at my house a couple of times a week, and he'd gotten a little better. Since then I haven't had the trainer come back because I can't afford it.
Can his lawyer ask for the dog? Has anyone heard of someone doing that? It's kind of rude- he's not even asking for the other dog, just the one that plays frisbee. When he left the last time he didn't ask for the dog.
Is it really about the dog, or is it more likely he's getting p*ssed because I'm not letting him into my car, or letting him 'hang around' in the house before or after pickups? Last time he complained that I had them say goodbye on the porch, and I said, 'would you like it if I came over to your house, just walked in, and then walked all over inside any time I wanted?' He said it was different because I hadn't lived in his house. I cannot even talk to him on the phone without us fighting, so I don't want to talk to him in person, and I'm getting resentful that I keep having to see him every other day. I shouldn't have to see him in my house.
Please answer- when parents switch off, they don't actually have to go inside the other person's house every time, do they? And also, any thoughts about my dog would be appreciated.
c
| jaiye |
| (old hand) |
| 02/14/06 08:59 PM |
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Re: Dog Custody
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Yes your husband can ask for and possibly get one of your dogs in the divorce. My husband asked for one of mine and the judge ordered it. It has been 2 months since we got the judgement and he still has not picked up the dog. And in fact was and as far as I know still is living with his mother who is not going to let him have the dog at her house.
My question is this, How long do I have to hold and care for the dog and at what point if there is one, can I say no you can't have the dog without being in contempt of court?
| MamaKitty |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 02/14/06 09:13 PM |
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Re: Dog Custody
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I just don't see why he can't get his own dog. I picked this one out, paid for it, take it to the groomers every 6wks...
It's a poodle! And the BUMD is 6foot 3. They look silly together. So he wants to take just the one, leave it at home from 5am till 5pm, and my other dog has to sit here by herself? Yes, I know he likes the dog, but he didn't try to take him last time when he left.
How did your x get custody, anyway? If I have receipts from the pound when I bought him, and records from the vet where I took him, and records at the groomers, receipts for his recent training, how can he get custody? Is it because according to the law he's just a possession, like a piece of furniture that has to be split?
I can just imagine the court telling me I have to give up custody because I have the other one... or worse, force me to also give visitation on a schedule with the BUMD. With my luck dog visitation days would be different than the bratties' visitation days, and I'd end up again having to see him every single day.
Why can't he be just like other xs that hate their xs so much they avoid them like the plague, would never dare set foot in their house, and who would insist I provide transportation for the bratties visits? I would love to drive the bratties over every time if it meant I could just drop them off and not have to see his face at/in my house again.
What was the judge's reasoning behind giving your dog to your ex?
c
| getnadivorce |
| (old hand) |
| 02/14/06 09:45 PM |
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Re: Dog Custody
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I knew someone that got divorce and they fought about the dog more than anything else. The judge actually found it comical that the dog was the major issue. When the whole doggy visitation thing came up, she walked away because she wanted nothing more to do with him and she didn't want to put herself through it.
| almostheaven |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 02/15/06 09:09 AM |
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MamaKitty and Jaiye...
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Mama, he can ask for the dog, yes. However, if you can show YOU are the one who actually got the dog and cared for it (see if the trainer will testify), and since the dog has been with you...well, it's a lot like kids in that respect. The judge isn't likely to order the dog change residence after you've been separated for so long with the dog living solely with you. AND...if the kids stay with you, the dog is more likely to follow the kids as a family pet situation rather than being given to an NCP.
Jaiye...get back to court. If you can show he hasn't picked up the dog, wait a few more months just to insure you've still had the dog for some time, then go back to court. Odds are that you can get the ruling reversed.
| almostheaven |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 02/15/06 09:12 AM |
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It's not a laughing matter at times...
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as our pets can be nearly as close to as as kids sometimes. I know I cried my eyes out when my kitty was put to sleep. She'd been with me for over 13 years and was dying. The only thing I could do for her was either watch it or ease her misery.
But it still can be funny, depending on how you look at it. So, no offense intended to the dog lovers (I love em too), but....
Everybody I know who has a dog usually calls him "Rover" or "Spot". I call mine Sex. Now, Sex has been very embarrassing to me. When I went to the City Hall to renew the dog's license, I told the clerk that I would like a license for Sex. He said, "I would like to have one too!" Then I said, "But she is a dog!" He said he didn't care what she looked like. I said, "You don't understand. ... I have had Sex since I was nine years old." He replied, "You must have been quite a strong boy." When I decided to get married, I told the minister that I would like to have Sex at the wedding. He told me to wait until after the wedding was over. I said, "But Sex has played a big part in my life and my whole world revolves around Sex." He said he didn't want to hear about my personal life and would not marry us in his church. I told him everyone would enjoy having Sex at the wedding. The next day we were married at the Justice of the Peace. My family was barred from the church from then on.
When my wife and I went on our honeymoon, I took the dog with me. When we checked into the motel, I told the clerk that I wanted a room for me and my wife and a special room for Sex. He said that every room in the motel is a place for sex. I said, "You don't understand. ... Sex keeps me awake at night." The clerk said, "Me too!"
One day I entered Sex in a contest. But before the competition began, the dog ran away. Another contestant asked me why I was just looking around. I told him that I was going to have Sex in the contest. He said that I should have sold my own tickets. "You don't understand," I said, "I hoped to have Sex on TV." He called me a show off.
When my wife and I separated, we went to court to fight for custody of the dog. I said, "Your Honor, I had Sex before I was married but Sex left me after I was married." The Judge said, "Same here!"
Last night Sex ran off again. I spent hours looking all over for her. A cop came over and asked me what I was doing in the alley at 4 o'clock in the morning. I said, "I'm looking for Sex." -- My case comes up next Thursday.
| almostheaven |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 02/15/06 09:13 AM |
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OMG!...
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The UBBC code is working!Quote:
Hallelujah!
| almostheaven |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 02/15/06 09:15 AM |
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Re: OMG!...
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But it doesn't work on the CS board??? WTF!
| jaiye |
| (old hand) |
| 02/15/06 11:31 AM |
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Re: MamaKitty and Jaiye...
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Do you think I can take him to small claims court for boarding fees? He got the dog because we had several since I was a show breeder. On one hand he claimed the dogs were "all mine" and he had nothing to do with them and then he tried to put a rediculous amount of value to them and then whined that he wanted one of them even though he was not in a position to take him. He tried to put a $6000 value on dogs that are almost all over the age of 10. I think somewhere in his pea-sized brain he thought the judge would offset his 401K for the value of the dogs.
It was all just game playing on his part.
| jaiye |
| (old hand) |
| 02/15/06 11:35 AM |
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Re: Dog Custody
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Remember anything purchased during the marriage is marital property and most judges do look at animals as property.
| Lyn |
| (journeyman) |
| 02/15/06 02:06 PM |
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Re: Dog Custody
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Mamakitty - Think dog (or any pet) custody issues are relatively common. First heard of it re a puppy I sold to a professional couple...husband got custody with wife getting visitation...not sure the reasoning other than perhaps a shorter work day for husband. Much to my surprise, issue cropped up 20 years later in my own unexpected divorce. X asked for our dogs (like Jaiye, I was a show breeder and the dogs actually had asset value) and our horse and donkey. Sounds like your X may have a genuine interest in Adobe...for my X the request was merely a ploy...he thought I'd freak out so much at the very thought of loosing the animals that I'd cave on some other things. Happily the judge saw thru him and told him off properly! As others have noted, who purchased the dog and covered expense for him during the marriage are irrelevant; apparently what is important is who put the 'sweat equity' and emotional investment into the animal...care, training, vet trips etc. I also agree that the judge most likely won't take the dog away from your kids. Good luck!
| MamaKitty |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 02/15/06 02:30 PM |
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Re: Dog Custody
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I wish I could sue him for PAS... pet alienation syndrome. It seems he's always done anything he can to get this one dog to like him more than me.
In fact, by the time he left us this time, he was absolutely furious that I'd been having a trainer come 2-3 times a week to try to get the dogs back to their former 'well-behaved' selves. Whenever he came home while the trainer was here, he was so mad he was physically shaking.
This was a good, well behaved dog before he started in on him. Pretty much the same behaviour as with the kids- no structure, no rules, no discipline. Thought it was cute teaching him to jump the fence... our neighbors don't think it's so cute, running all over, chasing cats, dogs, people.
He fed the dog scraps under the table, which ended up one time with him biting a little toddler that he was trying to get food from.
He refused to feed the dogs the ratio of wet/dry that the vet told us they had to have to keep their teeth clean, even after I showed him their gums were bleeding from lack of exercise... until I had to stop letting him feed them altogether. So then he switched to sneaking them snacks the vet had warned would cause intestinal blockage, even after he had to be taken to the vet ER for blockage.
He doesn't think dogs should have to be on leashes, even when it's the law... they should run free and wild.
He let his old paralyzed dog run 'free and wild' when he lived in the mountains, and he got killed by coyotes... he used to walk my deaf and blind dog, then when he was around the corner he'd take her leash off and 'let her run wild'. She fell off the sidewalk and ran into a fence.
There is no way he is responsible enough to take one of my dogs, so I'll be fighting that. It did make me wonder, though... are people who are irresponsible with pets always like that with children, too?
I mean, regardless of whether you like pets, is it common for people who cannot take care of a pet to be the same way about their children? Is it a generic skill or a specific skill? It seems like they share a few needed abilities.
Anyone have experience with parents who were good with pets but not with their kids? Just curious.
c
| MamaKitty |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 02/15/06 06:43 PM |
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Re: Dog Custody
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Ahhrgh. He's sent another email, saying he thinks it's 'fair' that he get my dog because I supposedly 'know how close he is to him'.
I'm sorry, but I just think this is weird. If he had a dog and we were divorcing, I think I would know it was his dog! And I wouldn't be asking for it.
Gives me the willies.
c
| catrmm |
| (old hand) |
| 02/15/06 07:35 PM |
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Re: Dog Custody
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I agree with others. Yes, he can ask for the dog. Yes, he may be awarded the dog. No, it's more likely that you will be awarded the dog. Since a pet is considered property (though most of us love our pets dearly), it will be awarded to someone.
However, even though I believe you should be allowed to keep the dog and the responsibility for caring for the dog should be yours, there's a chance that his feelings for the dog are sincere. Would you consider occasionally letting the dog visit with the kids, or having the dog outside with the kids when he picks them up, or letting him take the dog for a walk/play from time to time? None of these things require his coming into your house. Perhaps by doing little things like that for him, he may just be a little more cooperative. Pigs may fly too of course.
One thing that worries me is what the kids said. What if someone said to him just get another child?
| KDogg |
| (journeyman) |
| 02/16/06 12:35 AM |
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Re: Dog Custody
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Jaiye, send him a certified letter giving him so many days to pick up the dog as per the court's order or he forfeits any and all rights to it. The worst he could do is file contempt but the judge would probably rule against him since he's had two months already and still hasn't picked up the dog. You could also file contempt as well, claiming any expenses related to having and caring for the dog since the day it was awarded to him. But I'd just wait and let him file it, then file a counter to it and ask for reimbursement.
MamaKitty, your ex has no right inside the home uninvited since he no longer lives there. I assume that you've been awarded temporary possession of the house? He also has no right messing with the car, either. Shoot, I'd rather pick up a carseat off the porch rather than hassle with unhooking it or hooking it back up when I'm done with it. I think it has more to do with invading your privacy than it does the carseat.
As for where kids are exchanged, I've done it at several places - school, fast food restaurants, my parents' house, her parents' house, her house, my house, her friend's house, inside, outside, in the middle of the road even (ok, we pulled into a parking lot, but you get the point lol). If you're not comfortable with him being at your house, agree to take the kids to him and pick them up, or agree to meet somewhere else. If he says no, then just request that the court order the exchanges take place elsewhere and explain that he's coming into your home uninvited and hanging around for no reason whatsoever.
Finally, the dog situation. Most courts consider pets as property even though many people treat them like they were kids (furkids, if you will). Since you got the dogs after marriage they would be considered marital property. But if you can show you've taken the most care of them and are still taking care of them, it's doubtful he'd be given one. Even the kids appear to have more sense than him in telling him to just get another dog, so obviously he's just using that as another way to aggravate you. Teach the dog to bite him and he might leave it alone lol...
Anyway, just my opinions...
| MamaKitty |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 02/16/06 08:33 AM |
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Re: Dog Custody
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Thanks for the pickup suggestions. I doubt he would agree to any of them, because i do think most of these things are happening because he has control issues, like you stated.
When I have been right there, he tries to 'hang out' for a while in the living room before taking the kids, which is why I had them out on the porch with me instead... and since he noticed right away, that would seem to be why. When I have been outside or in other parts of the house (I try to avoid even being in the same room with him, to avoid conflict), have noticed that he tends to 'wander' into other rooms, which I think is because he's 'looking them over'. Or marking his territory. I wish he'd jsut pee all over the place and get it over with.
Yes, I could have the dogs in the front yard when he arrives. I had thought of that, but it seems to me that the more he sees them, the more he'll want them. I'd like to let them take the dogs with them, but he doesn't keep them on leashes, as required. Plus, I want him focused on our kids when he's at the park- not the dogs. I love my pets, but when I had my kids my priorities changed, and my kids are now at the top of the list ALWAYS. I have a feeling if he sees the dogs more he may decide he wants to see them 'regularly', and start asking for things like visitiatio days with them on the days he isn't with the kids. Last go-round he did everything he could to force me to see him/deal with him on a daily basis, and I don't want to have to this time.
I don't think the kids were trying to be mean telling him to get another dog- I think they could sense a fight coming on (which I did, too) and they tried to head it off. I think they know he's lonely and they've also suggested he get a cat... but they feel like the dogs and cats we have here, that I take care of, belong here. They have also noted that if only the one dog was taken he'd be left alone from 5am-5pm, and because the BUMD taught the dog to jump fences, he'd be having to look for the dog every time he got home.
Thanks for the ideas, I will try to see what I can do without creating a bigger problem.
c
| Karen1 |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 02/16/06 05:06 PM |
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Re: OMG!...
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What is the UBBC code, what does it do? I don'tsee anything different but then I am not the most compter literate person around. Thanks in advance.
Hope the baby is doing well, you and the rest of your family also of course!
Karen
| almostheaven |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 02/16/06 08:27 PM |
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Re: OMG!...
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UBBC allows us to post smilies, bold, italicize, underline, quote text, etc., without relying on HTML. They apparently have it turned on for some boards and off for others because well...someone at DSource was asleep at the wheel and/or just didn't have a clue about what they were doing. Because all those smilies and special features don't work on the CS board.
| Renee |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 02/16/06 08:39 PM |
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Re: Dog Custody
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Dogs are considered property. Even if you paid for the dogs I imagine they could be considered community property. If thats true, to counter it I would simply speak to the vet, the groomer and the trainer, explain the situation and see if they would be willing to provide your attorney with a letter that you have been the primary caregiver.
It sounds to me like he knows he has no power over you to control you via the kids, so he's going for the next closest things to your heart. I've got dogs and if my ex had even thought of trying that it would've been war. He could've taken the stupid house, the car and every piece of jewelry he bought me as long as I kept the dogs...stuff is replaceable, my pups are not.
BTW? I've been racking my brain trying to work this out - what does BUMD stand for? I bet its good ;o)
| I_am_Jack |
| (member) |
| 02/17/06 06:40 AM |
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Re: Dog Custody
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MamaKitty, it would depend on the state.
In LA, for example, if a dog bit a child, it would HAVE to be on a leash...if it was found off its leash, the owner would be charged with a misdemeanor (arrested). If it bit someone else, it would be put down. period. no third chances. And the owner would be fined, and charged with a misdemeanor (arrested). I'm not saying your dog should be put down. That's just LA law. Its just an example of how one state handles pet issues.
As to dog custody, if dogs are treated differently under the law from state to state, they could certainly be divided differently in divorces from state to state, and the Judge has a LOT of leeway on how to rule in most states.
| MamaKitty |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 02/17/06 08:33 AM |
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Re: Dog Custody
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Yeah, well... this was a big problem for the BUMD and I. Because we do have leash laws here. Not only that, but if your dog bites someone, they can sue you and go after your house if they're asking for more cash than you have... and usually when people sue that's what they're after. So even telling the BUMD that we could lose the house for not being in control of the dogs meant nothing.
Now, what broke the camel's back (for me) was that the BUMD had been spoiling my dog so much that he was getting aggressive if anyone SAT too close to him, meaning that one time my littlest one sat next to daddy, the dog snapped at him and bit clear through his lip. I really wasn't sure if I was going to have to take him to the ER. The BUMD yelled at our son about leaning against the dog... and that was it- anybody who would put a dog first (one that has just bit your son in the face) was just off my list. Mentally I decided we were going to have to divorce, that day.
At that point (and I am a BIG animal lover) I told the BUMD that we had 2 choices- have Adobe put down, or immediately get him to training. He cried. And then promised he'd take the dog for training. After a few months with no action I found a trainer (a police dog trainer), and set up times. After talking to me and the BUMD the trainer insisted only the BUMD do the training, as he was the person responsible for his aggressiveness. That didn't sit well with him, and throughout the summer he broke every appointment. By the time he left at the beginning of the year, I had given up, and was having a trainer come a couple of times a week, to see if me training would help at all. He undermined the training every chance he got. Don't ask me why, I do not know.
Weird thing- he wrote me ANOTHER nasty email demanding I hand my dog over. (Who, now is behaving a LOT better because he has no choice but to accept me as 'top dog', and I'm strict).
Then, when he came to pick the bratties up he saw me walking across the street to give the neighbors a bag of dogfood the dogs didn't like. He demanded to know why I was giving them dogfood. I ignored him. He then went a little wacko (as usual) and started in..'So what, now you're starving the dogs, is that it?', etc. He then again threatened me that he was going to tell his lawyer to force me to give him Adobe, and I told him please do. Please talk to your lawyer because I'm not discussing anything but the children with you. And walked in the house.
About a half an hour later I get a phone call from him. He has not called one time in six weeks- not to ask how the kids are doing, not to talk to the kids, nothing.
But he demands to know- Am I planning on giving the dogs away? Is that why I was giving the neighbors dogfood?
I hung up on him. I think that's pretty low that he hasn't called once to ask how the kids are doing in school, or to talk to them, but he can call about the dog. That's what I call priorities, eh?
Thanks for the heads up on the law issues.
c