kav
(old hand)
07/11/05 08:40 PM
I don't get it

I have been reading everyone's stories for a little over a month now and trying to help with advice for the past week, and I don't get it!! It's the same story, you love someone with your whole heart and soul and they turn out to be your worse enemy. They hurt you more than anyone would or could. I go to a support group and I talk to co-workers that have been divorce and it's the same. The other spouse leaves for another woman/man. What happened to the vows, to "till death do us part"? It doesn't matter if you have been married for 2 years or 50. I love my husband with my whole heart and soul and he left for someone else. I don't know that he could be lucky enough to get the love I gave him. And now, like everyone else, I don't know him. How is it the guy I spent the last 14 years with, the one I wanted to grow old with and dream with is now someone else? I don't get it. In November he was in love with me by January he became a different person. I don't understand how this happens so often. And I don't understand why it happens so often.
Kim


Ryan
(journeyman)
07/11/05 09:17 PM
Re: I don't get it

I became that person that my wife didn't know. And when we got engaged she became that person I didn't know. One thing I try to keep in mind and I always wonder this, but why don't people just care about the things that are truly important. Like, holding hands while walking through the store, a big hug when you get home (the kind that make it seem like you've been gone for a year but only 8 hours). Why do people get so mad over trash not getting taken out or dishes not done or the house is a mess, etc. When I first got with my wife for 6 months we were extremely happy and affectionate and nothing could separate us. Then when I put the ring on her finger to be engaged she started griping about all the things she didn't like about me when we were boyfriend and girlfriend. It is hard to understand how somebody can love you one day and the next they don't. When we were dating we would make love (whatever you want to call it) all the time. When we got married we were both 21, we had sex like 3 times a month if that. What happened? I don't know. I need help in not living in the past and reliving all my regrets and letting them torment me.

Anyways, I know how you feel about this, right now, I sometimes feel that I don't even know her anymore. That she has forgotten who I am and what good times we did have along with the bad.

Ryan


overtherainbow
(enthusiast)
07/11/05 09:33 PM
Re: I don't get it

No. You're wrong. YOU DO get it. They love you and leave you. I dunno. My heart is now saved for my dog and my bank account and my stockbroker if he gives me good tips.
Groucho Marx said that "Alimony was like feeding hay to a dead horse." Well then let's just say I have a very LARGE BARN and sent the soon to be ex a pitchfork with that saying inscribed on it for his birthday. Smile.


kav
(old hand)
07/11/05 09:35 PM
Re: I don't get it

You are right Ryan, we forget about the little things that are important. I fight daily to not relive the past. I have to use all of my energy to push it from my mind. I too was put on anti-depressants, it's suppose to help with the compulsive thinking and it does to a degree. I just find it sad that people move on so easily and forget the person that they once loved enough to marry them. But, all that is left now is to move forward and rebuilt.

Ryan
(journeyman)
07/11/05 10:36 PM
Re: I don't get it

My wife always seems that she has already forgotten about us. But then she tells me how she is miserable everyday because she thinks about it. Just today I talked to her and I reminded her that she told me that she is miserable. I told her that it is a problem for both of us. She asked me why and I told her, "it's my problem because I could have done more to stop this, and it's your problem because you don't have to go through it right now." I have told her that she has a choice whether or not to divorce me, she doesn't HAVE to divorce me. She got pissed at me when I told her that pretty much everything in life is your own choice. Some things happen that aren't by choice but 95% of what happens in your own life is your own choice, and she got pissed at me. She doesn't like to take responsibility for anything. If I don't get the almighty reprieve from the governor, I don't know how long it will take for me to move on. I work in a prison, it may be minimum security but we have everybody from murderers and rapists to child molesters, drug dealers, and men who didn't pay child support. And I am not suprised by any story or thought these guys tell me, but I am dumbfounded and perplexed at how somebody could want to actually go through a divorce instead of working their ass off to make it work.

A guy I work with quoted me a line from a movie and it fit for me but apparently not my wife. He said, "when two people love each other, and it just doesn't seem to click, when is enough enough?" I paused for a second, and he said "never". And it's true, if you truly love someone and they love you then there should never be a time when either person should give up on love.

I know I know I'm rambling. Just some things to think about.

Ryan


Lyn
(journeyman)
07/12/05 07:02 AM
Re: I don't get it

Kim - The hows and whys probably could be debated til the cows come home without finding any absolute answers. Suspect that's one of the reasons that closure is so difficult after a divorce, especially when the decision to divorce is unilateral. Perhaps it's just a sign of the times; altho there are some good and valid reasons for
exiting a marriage which make the eased laws a blessing, I do find it sad that it's almost less complicated to divorce than it is to marry! In a perfect world, since it takes 2 people to say 'I do', it would be great if it took 2, not 1 to say 'I don't want to anymore'. You can't account for another person's perspective, but I did (and still hope) that a basic tenet of marriage is that one if off the open market and not looking for the next option! Someone on the old Recovery Board, quite a while ago, coined the thought that her X's brain had been sucked out by aliens...sometiimnes that seems as good an explanation as any!


Tabitha
(addict)
07/12/05 10:48 AM
Re: I don't get it

It really sucks doesn't it? The only thing to "get" though is that s h i t happens... to everyone. Marriage has now become disposable with almost every other aspect of our society. All you can do is accept reality and pick yourself up, dust yourself off, learn from your experience and move on. This is the honest-to-God truth, it's HIS loss... pity him, for he will likely never find true happiness. You know, the kind of happiness that comes from serving others and keeping your commitments. Don't let this kill your spirit and you'll be just fine.

tiredofit
(recently joined)
07/12/05 12:03 PM
Re: I don't get it

I agree, marraige has become completely disposable and and it makes me sick! I am the kind of person that takes my vows very seriously, never believed in divorce. My parents have been married for over 40 years, I just grew up believing that your spouse never left you and that marriage was forever. That was just the way it was for me.

My husband isn't leaving over another woman, he just says he "isn't happy with me" and that he can't stand being around me. Just last week he was professing love! We argue and then he wants a divorce. To him, there is no such thing as talking things out and communication. When things get hard, he is out. His dad was married 4 times - that should have tipped me off!

I am truly sorry for everything everyone here is going through. I swear this is Hell on Earth.

Lizzy


Zeek
(recently joined)
07/12/05 12:26 PM
Re: I don't get it

Again, as I posted a few days ago, anyone that wants to save their marriage because they see some hope still in doing that, is welcome to an emailed e-book of Stop Your Divorce. I have nothing to do will the company but I know this book saved my marriage (or at least has given it a second chance--the jury will be out until time passes considerably). That second chance is sometimes all a marriage needs.

I, too, am from the "till death do us part" generation. Sometimes I want to transport myself to the 40s or 50s, where values were more than just a word. People now get married with divorce in the back of their minds. How sad is that? And these f-ing hollywood romances, which come and go like the wind, certainly do not help our society. How the hell can we look up to these people? They're mostly spoiled rich brats!

I feel for you Ryan & Kav. If you realize the little things are what you have to pay attention to, you're ahaed of the game. Maybe with a second chance, you'll get to use them--if not, then the next person who comes along will appreciate your efforts. Let me know if you want an email of that book--I'll just need your email to send it to you. Good luck.


Karen1
(Pooh-Bah)
07/12/05 06:25 PM
Re: I don't get it

My stbx and I were married for 30 years and dated a few before marriage. he left, OW involved. We had our ups and downs over the years, nothing real major untilthe last year or so. his alcohol use became alcohol abuse, and he got into internet porn . He was really rotten to me during the last year or so... a real jerk for a couple weeks, then nice again. I now think he was trying to get me mad enough to leave him. He would threaten divorce over minor stuff. I.E.. he had this habit of hanging his coat on the back of dining table chair. Well it grew to a couple of coats and jackets, so heavy it was pulling the chair back away from the seat. When I mentioned that I wishesd he stop that and why, and reminded him there was a coat rack just a few feet away, he got mad, yelling, stomping aroud.. After a few minutes of this he shouted that he wanted a divorce and went out for a night of drinking. Next day acting life nothing happened.

Marriage for many today is indeed disposable. I was an emotional mess 3 years ago when stbx, the love of my life, left. I prayed he would return, prayed for our marriage to be saved. His actions since (and even during our marriage those last few years) and a long time to reflect on the past, and just enjoying the new postives of my life as a solo, have made me realize I would never go back to what it was, or who he has become. As Garth Brooks sings... SOme of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers.

You are right, it is hell on earth. But sometimes the fear of the unknown becomes better than the fear of continueing as we are. You deserve more out of life than his constant game of love you , hate you. Sounds like a control freak to me. And honey, once he has physically abused the first time, he crossed a line, and may well do so again, and again, each time getting more abusive.


Karen1
(Pooh-Bah)
07/12/05 06:29 PM
Re: I don't get it

Rainbow, great idea on the pitchfork with that on it. May I use it also? I could have it delievered to him, along with a thank you card to the OW.

MADISON
(newbie)
07/15/05 11:28 AM
Re: I don't get it

i don't get it either...i'm trying to hang on and i feel like i'm losing it all the time...why are they allowed to get away with this...why with all the laws we have isn't it illegal to do this to a person you promised to love...why

kav
(old hand)
07/15/05 11:31 AM
Re: I don't get it

You're right about that, there should be a law. They say what doesn't kill us will make us stronger. I'm waiting for the stronger part.

MADISON
(newbie)
07/15/05 11:35 AM
Re: I don't get it

its very sad...that you can go your whole life and never imagine this would even be possible to others never mind you....i've been married for 35 yrs...and my husband left me almost 4 yrs ago...i still am living like its gound hogs day and i can't seem to go on...every day to me seems like it just happened yesterday...i don't know what to do...

kav
(old hand)
07/15/05 11:40 AM
Re: I don't get it

This forum is a real good thing for the healing process. It's good to talk to others who understand. Have you tried any support groups? They say this is the toughest thing one person would ever have to go through and I think that is such an understatement. I was with my husband for 14 years. When he told me he didn't want to be married to me anymore it was like my whole world collapsed. It gets so exhausting pushing through each day. I sure hope that coming to this forum helps you to get some closure.

MADISON
(newbie)
07/15/05 11:53 AM
Re: I don't get it

for me i really don't think i will ever get closure...almost like i just don't get it...i would love to see the adultress that my husband left me for punished...through court i mean...why aren't these pigs brought into court and charged with something ...something like murder cause they did have such a big part in killing a good family unit..is there any laws for that...

Karen1
(Pooh-Bah)
07/15/05 12:04 PM
Re: I don't get it

Sad to say, the court, at least in OH, could really not care any less about adultery, emotional abuse, or punishment. All they call about is the settlement of marital assets,pensions,custody, visitation, support, the marital home and debt. In my final papers (hearing coming up soon) it even states ..."ending the marriage contract". Guess it is that old separation of church and state thing.

I was with stbx for 30 years when he left 3 years ago. I miss the "old" stbx, can't stand what he became and is. The OW will be punished once he shows his true colors to her. Since he left, he has still be able to take out his frustrations from his job, 80% of all drivers on the road, people in bars who tick him off, the rising price of whatever etc., on me. Once the divorce is over with,he won't be able to do that as he has through out the process... (withholding info as long as he could, continually changing his mind on settlement issues etc.). Guess who his new target for taking out his frustrations on will be? My guess is the OW. SHe has it coming, I don't feel sorry for her.


kav
(old hand)
07/15/05 12:08 PM
Re: I don't get it

Maybe you can find comfort in "what goes around comes around" And one day the exes and the OW/OM they left for will get theirs.

MADISON
(newbie)
07/15/05 12:11 PM
Re: I don't get it

i don't feel sorry for any ho who does this to someone family...i would never think of it...but it was done to me...and you and i'm sure after being married as long as you were you would not think of it either...there has to be a way they get legally punished...really

kav
(old hand)
07/15/05 12:14 PM
Re: I don't get it

Well if you find one, let me know. But I don't think it's possible. For your sake though, you have to get past the anger so you can start the healing process and move on. It's not fair that we love someone unconditionally for years and they can cause us so much pain. But the day comes when you have to think of yourself and your well being.

MADISON
(newbie)
07/15/05 12:16 PM
Re: I don't get it

i think when he left he took my patience, self esteem and everything else...i want to be able to glot like they do at me...i've become this cranky person that i can't control and it just makes me crazy because inside i really am such a calm nice happy person...but i can't seem to find her any more...

kav
(old hand)
07/15/05 12:19 PM
Re: I don't get it

have you thought about going to therapy? This would help you resolve the issues you're having with yourself and then you could become the woman that you once was.

MADISON
(newbie)
07/15/05 12:23 PM
Re: I don't get it

your right...i know this, but i guess i'm just a little slower at this...still trying to figure things out...when i know there is nothing left to figure out...i know what the out come is and i just dread it...i don't really work so he's calling all the shots and always has i guess...he quit claim the house to me and never came back...but now i think he wants it back...i'm just so worried what will happen

MADISON
(newbie)
07/15/05 12:29 PM
Re: I don't get it

yes i have thought about it but have never done anything about it either...i'm affaid he would us it against me...trying to get the house back from me...

kav
(old hand)
07/15/05 12:34 PM
Re: I don't get it

well, he certainly can't use you going to therapy to take the house off of you.

Steph13
(journeyman)
07/15/05 12:38 PM
Re: I don't get it

This is the beginning of a new life, out with the old in with the new. take off somewhere if you can affort it and get in touch with the inner you. Re-invente yourself. do something crazy you never dare to do, get out of your comfort zone. Your world has turned inside out, it has been destroyed, rebuilt it, remake it your way, not his or the hussy he left you for. Screw them both, I'm my own boss, ymy own individual person, I'm not dependent on him. I'm a unique creature, beautifull inside and out, biterness does not become me. I let you finish this, you have some many quality in you, you dont even know about here is the time to find each one of them and apply them to your own happiness, you make yourself happy, your husband was not the source of that happiness, I know if hurt like hell, carving yourself with a knife would be less painfull, and the betrayal on top of that. but you know what, that's OK. What come around, goes around, your reap what you sow.
You get back what you give. The world is round, you do soon or later make a full circle.


MADISON
(newbie)
07/15/05 12:39 PM
Re: I don't get it

why not...he may say i was crazy and made him sign the papers...even though i was done with a lawyer...and me going to therapy proves it...

Steph13
(journeyman)
07/15/05 12:43 PM
Re: I don't get it

Once you quit claim a house, you have no right to that house anymore. record that Quit Claim Deed. and you know what sell the house and get a new one with you name all over it. I'm a mortgage Processor. Because he quit claim deed himself when you sell it all the monies are yours you do know have to give him a dime. He gave away his right. your state of mind at the time of him signing has nothing to do with him signing the document.

MADISON
(newbie)
07/15/05 12:45 PM
Re: I don't get it

thats just it i hate the idea of a new life when i loved the old one so much...for me i think its just going to take longer...at least i still have a heart beat... thanks for the help

MADISON
(newbie)
07/15/05 12:47 PM
Re: I don't get it

really are you very sure of this ...i was told he could change his mind and bring me to court cause he wants to say that he signed it under derresss or something like that

Steph13
(journeyman)
07/15/05 12:53 PM
Re: I don't get it

Yes, I'm sure of this, let me give you an exemple, when a wife or husband sell the home they once owned, it is called selling your partner share, right after you give the other person 50% or what ever you agree on or what the judge decide's you have to Quit Claim yourself or the other person off the Deed. So when the now Owner of the house because the other person got their payoff is off the deed the home belongs to you and only you. you can not come back and say oops I was under the influence of what ever. and if your lawyer was indeed involved, your husband does not have a leg to stand on.
Like I said, what comes around goes around. He stupidly lost something he now wants to badly.

That should make you laugh.


MADISON
(newbie)
07/15/05 01:00 PM
Re: I don't get it

if this is true you've made my day...but we are not divorced yet he signed this and i had it recorded back in february i think or march ...he had signed it over about 2 yrs ago..i didn't want to record it cause i thought we might have a chance of getting back...but that didn't happen..so i recorded it with a lawyer and now he says he made a misstake and wants it back...if i don't let him have it then i won't get any thing else...am i entile to anything else...like his pay and pension and social and life insurance...

Steph13
(journeyman)
07/15/05 01:10 PM
Re: I don't get it

OK, The house if yours, he Quit Claim Deed it, call it stupidity, mistake, present, what ever he wants to call it, it is yours it happened over 2 years ago, the only way he will get back on the deed, is if you put his name back on it. as far as pension and all the other stuff you will have to ask a lawyer. Each case if different, but If you are the Madison who has been married for 35 years, Yes you should be getting more that the house he took his name off of.
Make a list of what you fell is FAIR, now remembe that word, because he is going to come after you like a full grown Bull Dog, You are the kitten, going for what is Fair not more no less than that. See the trick here or the secret in these procedures and fights is that one is the bully flexing their muscle and the other one is low key, either by intelligence of by fear and intimidation. The bully usually sabotages their case, sit back and stay still long enought and you will be suprise what the other party is doing, but by you laying low and not responding to his crap it turn back on them and hit's them straight in the face. And believe me the lawyers and judges do see and notice all of that.

Do you own your home? where you on the original Mortgage, is it paid off in full?


MADISON
(newbie)
07/15/05 01:21 PM
Re: I don't get it

yes i am the madison who was married for 35 yrs...and yes i am on the deed alone and the mortgage is still in his and my name is that a problem for me ...i never worked ...he signed it over cause we have 5 kids and it is really their inheritance and i would agree to give him 25,000.00 for him to get a new place...that was the ageement...i have to sell the house to get him the money and thought i would still be entitled to get alimony and benefits ect...i live in new jersey and they say that is equible distribution...but him signing the house to me before the divorce...does that change things....

Steph13
(journeyman)
07/15/05 01:40 PM
Re: I don't get it

Is there any signed papers stating that you are willing to give him 25K when you sell the home, because on your final decree the judge will tell you to do just that and maybe give you a 90 days time frame to buy him out. Who is paying for the mortgage now? if he is and you are not working or can not affort the mortgage payment then when the divorce is final he wont be paying for anything either you will be soly responsible for the payments and also you can have his name removed from the mortgage with that Quit Claim Deed, it only need's to be recorded and the Mortgage Company will remove him and keep you as the primary borrower. It also depends on how much equity you have on the house you can take a HELOC for 25K minimum payment of 300 and pay him off and still keep the house and not have to sell it to pay him off.

you do have may opions and these options will keep you going and looking forward to something new, life does not end here. you still have a long way to go.


MADISON
(newbie)
07/15/05 01:49 PM
Re: I don't get it

there is nothing in writing it was a verbal agreement but i would not try and cheat him... i just don't want him to be able to run my life...he is still giving me money to pay for things but i still don't have a job...may think i'm crazy but i really never worked a job...always took care of the kids him and the house...what will the judge say to take ...i bet tuft shit get a job now...i was really hoping i would be entitled to some alimony to pay for the house...do you think because of this house situation i would not be able to get alimony to pay for it anymore...

Steph13
(journeyman)
07/15/05 01:58 PM
Re: I don't get it

You were a house wife/Home taker..... her is liable to give you spousal allamonies... I think that is what it is called. I think he know's that too, if you look at your situation a bit closely he still pays for stuff knowing that it is now cheaper than it will be once the final decree is issued by a judge. You dont have any trade, you will need to go to school and learn one in order to make a decent amount of money to support yourself and the children, you have no money because you did not need any you may had a joint account what was his was yours and now what is yours is what he give you. The house situation has nothing to do with how much money you are entitle by a judge.
I see it all the time, in my line of work.
I hope you can follow me here, and the numbers are just a guess OK you can put in your own numbers.

The house is worth 250K. The mortgage you still own on the house is 100K at 6.50% PITI plus HZ and TX escrowed, Mtg payment is $1200. You sell the home for 300K you pay off the lender 100K you pay off your hobby 25k equals 125K minus 300K you walk away with 175K to get a new home or what ever you want with that money. the rest alamony and all others child support and so forth are up to the judge.

I can only do Mortgages here, and try to get you out of the dump you're in emotionally.


MADISON
(newbie)
07/15/05 02:04 PM
Re: I don't get it

you have made me feel so much better...not to say my situation i'm still dreading but i will no longer allow him to tell me what i will get...i think i will let the judge do that...thank you for all your help ...i still don't get it but its a start thanks again

Steph13
(journeyman)
07/15/05 02:08 PM
Re: I don't get it

You are welcome, and keep your head up hight even when you are sinking in. Keep your head up hight.

Annie7676
(old hand)
07/15/05 03:58 PM
To those who had long term marriage

I briefly glanced through and saw a couple of you Madison/Karen that had long term marriages where the spouse left for OW. Thats very bad I know it happened to me almost 5 yrs ago. Thank goodness for these boards. It was devastating and so extremely painful not only to me but to our children who still suffer the effects. The leavers unless they are astute enough usually don't take the time to leave correctly if that makes sense. Anyway it took me a long time to adjust to the new life and move on. I can honestly say now that I am free of the burden of wondering why, what, etc, its just not worth it. As one of you posted he isn't the same, well thats probably true but neither are we. While I didn't plan this, I can now say that I am content and happy with my life. I have chosen not to date to a certain extent that I don't go anywhere or do anything to introduce that in my life but for now thats fine. After almost 30 yrs of being wife, mom, worker etc this time is for me and I do enjoy it. I hope both of you can reach this place as at some point we all just have to see them for what they are...and I note that you hope what goes around comes around...yes wouldn't it give us closure to know that it didn't work out I doubt that we will ever get that but...my YS did share with me that the SO/W in my X's life just takes money out of his wallet, last week was several hundred dollars....mmmmmmm....how would we like that??? oh well...in cases like this its great to not have that type of worry.

it just has to bet better so hang in there


lostandalone
(recently joined)
07/15/05 07:17 PM
Re: To those who had long term marriage

I have been reading these post over the last week trying to take comfort in the fact that I am not alone in this - one of the most difficult, frightening, and depressing times of ones life. I just thought I would share my story, not only to make me feel better, but also on the chance it might help some others who are going throught this same thing.
First I will start out with I am (was) the husband and none of this was instigated by me. We were married for 24 years. When we got married, she had a 4 year old daughter from her previous marriage whom I raised as my own child ---and by that I mean raised...we worked opposite shifts and I would fix dinner and breakfast for my stepdaughter, get her ready for school, put her to bed at night, etc. Her real father was worthless, never paid a dime of support (literally nothing). It didn't matter...this was a child of the woman I loved, I couldn't help but love her as if she were my own. Two years later we had a child together...a son. In order for this not to become a novel, I will skip to the present....step daughter turned out like her father...loser..dropout at 15, pregnant at 16, could give a crap about anything that really matters in life...still I supported her and let her and child live with us until she was 24 and finally left. Our son is just the opposite...very responsible..currently in the Army serving in Iraq...(nothing like having a marriage end and a child in potential danger to really make you think about things!)
Anyway Oct. 2004 I discovered email on our home computer from her to her "boyfriend" about what fun they were having and about how easy it was to fool me and use me. I died that day. I confronted her when she came home from work...of course she denied it, but when you have their email in front of you, it's difficult to explain that away. To show you what a terrible bastard I am, I let her continue to live in our home until she found an apartment...(she could not afford to keep the house on her income, and I didn't want to sell it, so I kept it)...when she found an apartment, I rented the moving truck, loaded most of the furniture (damn close to everything we owned) and then waited for her new "friend" to show up to help load the heavy things (she had previously brought him over to my home and introduced him so we could all sit down and discuss the situation...that took restraint)...then drove to her new apartment, unloaded everything and was about to leave (to take the rental truck back) when she asked if I could help her new "friend" put the 4 poster bed back together...I told her I wasn't going to help put together something the two of them would probably be using later, and she got pissed off at me !!!! Okay, I know I have rambled, but I am still trying to figure out what went wrong. I am sure I am not the perfect husband, but I thought I was close....I did housework, I did all the laundry. I went grocery shopping with her. I sent her flowers for no reason. Bought her jewelery, never forgot her birthday / anniversery, etc. In 2003 I arranged for us to go to Las Vegas and renew our wedding vows...new ring and all. I never physically abused her. Never cheated on her (even though the oppurtunity had occured when I traveled for business - I could not live with myself if I did that). Raised her child and our child.....and in the end I get..."I love you, I'm just not in love with you". I guess I am writing today because the final divorce papers have been signed and are just waiting for the judge to sign off on them....I paid off all her debts except her car payment, plus gave her an extra $15,000.00---total of about $40,000.00 plus literally all of the furniture, computer, jewelry, etc. I just hope some day this pain will go away...I still don't understand what went wrong....it's like a song from Tom Petty - "anything can happen, anything can end. Don't try to fight it don't try to save me...she's a woman in love, and it's not me" Thank you for listening to my rant....


kav
(old hand)
07/15/05 07:42 PM
Re: To those who had long term marriage

I'm so sorry to hear your story. You have certainly gone above and beyond what any person would. Seems to me it's her loss. You just never know, you can put all the love you have into a marriage and that other person is going to do what they want anyway. Pure selfishness on their part. That is why I believe that everyone that comes to this board is the better person of the two spouses. We love and we care and we would never hurt the one we love like this, unconditional love. The one thing I have read so many times by so many different people "I just don't know that person anymore" Some day we will all get to be happy again. I truly believe that.
Kim


Annie7676
(old hand)
07/15/05 08:45 PM
Re: To Lost and Alone

I am very sorry to hear your story, it does seem to appear that most of the leavers do so in a heartless way and because some of us are nice we just put up with it. I can tell you from my experience, long term marriage, that time does do much to heal the wounds. Hobbies, friends, family, new interests, etc. We all handle our grief at the breakup and betrayal in our own way and own time...but fortunately as time passes if we do things to assist ourselves it does get better. Keep posting on these boards, everyone will reach out to help.

Lyn
(journeyman)
07/15/05 08:47 PM
Re: To those who had long term marriage

Loatandalone - Trying times indeed, but try to remember while sorting things out, that NONE of this is about you, but has everything to do with your wife's shortcomings. Not always comfortable and certainly not an easy exercise, but a necessary one. Nobody's perfect, but nobody deserves to be treated as you have been.

Lyn
(journeyman)
07/15/05 09:18 PM
Re: I don't get it

Hi MADISON - Not sure just where to jump into this discussion, but I too am from NJ (Morris Co) and have been involved in protracted legal battles since my X walked after 27 years of marriage. Actually, settlement was decent...enforcing same as been a nightmare! Anyway, some of what I have learned:
- can't really address the issue of the house deed...if it does hold up, the market value of the house minus any mortgages will go in your asset column
- when all assets and debts are tallied up, distribution will be close to 50/50
- the court will be sympathetic to the contributions you made as a homemaker and the career sacrifices you made to do that and you should get permanent spousal support to the extent you cannot support yourself according to the lifestyle established during the marriage, a share of his pension, 401k, IRA, etc...unless the equity in the house makes your asset share top heavy, in which case you may have to settle some $$ on him
- you will receive SS at his rate when he begins collecting
- I wouldn't give a second thought to entering therapy, rather than hurting you, it may show the court that you have in fact been traumatized by all this (judges are not heartless and don't look lightly upon the breakup of a long term marriage!)
- based on my experience, I'd suggest you try to negotiate more assets or a cash settlement in lieu of Spousal Support...a lump sum settlement is not taxable to you; support is and a lump sum gets things over and done with (at the time of my divorce, I was so scrambled that I couldn't think my way through this one..if I had, I would have been spared most of the legal nonsense that has gone on since))
- easy to be angry and want OW/OM to suffer some punishment (and trust I have no use for she who lured my X away), but in reality, the weakness and fault belongs to the straying spouse.
Good luck...try to be strong!


alabama
(enthusiast)
07/15/05 10:07 PM
Re: lostandalone

Damn man, trying to figure out what went wrong is a huge waste of time don't you think?

alabama
(enthusiast)
07/15/05 10:19 PM
Re: I don't get it

Yeah, back to kav and the original post...because the grass looks greener on the other side...

Your question is interesting...just pointless...


lostandalone
(recently joined)
07/15/05 11:01 PM
Re: lostandalone

You are right (to some extent) alabama, but then again let me pose this to you....say you worked a job for 20 + years that you really, really enjoyed and loved to get up in the morning just to go to it. Did a wonderful job (or so they said) and then after 20 + years they tell you they don't need you any more....they have found "someone else" that is younger and will do the job better....How much time do you think you would spend on trying to figure out "what went wrong" ?? I can accept that "something went wrong"...but when that happens there is usually a reason.....not that the reason makes it any easier, but in a way, it does help minimize the pain....in my situation I am not sure what I did wrong....love her too much ??? That is the true question I am seeking an answer too.

Karen1
(Pooh-Bah)
07/15/05 11:22 PM
Re: I don't get it

Not a pointless question for many here. Is one ofen struggled with during the trip along the road to recovery.

Karen1
(Pooh-Bah)
07/15/05 11:40 PM
Re: lostandalone

I don't think it is a waste of time as long as one does not get stuck in that phase. What I think is wrong is rushing the process of recovery. Rushing through, thinking one is past it, without spending the time to reflect on our contributions to the downfall of a marriage.... I think this is the reason so many post divorce relationships also fail.

alabama
(enthusiast)
07/15/05 11:52 PM
Re: I don't get it

Well Karen1, along the road to recovery someone says...that trying to figure out what went wrong is a huge waste of time...

Hey lostandalone...forget the job analogy...soooooo...if you do not know why she left...how do you know that it will minimize the pain?..doesn't make sense...

I'm not going to buy into this "...what did I do wrong" crap...find something else to focus on...


alabama
(enthusiast)
07/16/05 12:04 AM
Re: lostandalone

[quote]I don't think it is a waste of time as long as one does not get stuck in that phase. What I think is wrong is rushing the process of recovery. Rushing through, thinking one is past it, without spending the time to reflect on our contributions to the downfall of a marriage.... I think this is the reason so many post divorce relationships also fail. [/quote]

Agree...just believe that right from the start lostandalone needs to hear that he should not blame himself...it is easy to get consumed in this cycle of thought...


jsmom
(newbie)
07/16/05 12:17 AM
Re: I don't get it

I think one problem that comes into play is that people don't understand how much WORK marriage is! We get caught up in the lovey dovey feelings and when that dies down, we think something is wrong. But, what I have learned is that love is alot like a career. When we first get the job, we are so excited! We tell everyone about our great new job. Then we work really, really hard to impress the boss. But, after a few years, we get comfortable and stop trying so hard. After all, we've got the job, we're pretty stable there, so why try so hard. But, if we get really bored with it, we go get a new job. Or if the boss notices we're bored, he fires us and gets someone to replace us. Just think about those people who work for the same company for years and years, though. They have been there through the ups and downs. When you think of that company, you think of them. Some people think of a career as something to pour your heart into and work hard at. Some people work at one place for awhile, then move on for a better deal. Kind of like marriage, huh? You can work really hard and who knows if you're gonna get praised and promoted or fired and replaced? LOL

Karen1
(Pooh-Bah)
07/16/05 12:23 AM
Re: I don't get it

Madison, do you have an attorney? An attorney could, should, answer your questions for you.

I was with stbx for 30 years. I worked for all but approx. 2 years of our marriage. His earnings are 3 times what mine are. Reason for that is because we made the decision early in our marriage to concentrate on furthering his education as his job (research and developement for computer use in his company, a large utility) seemed to have the better chance for avancement. Our funds were quite limited, not enough for both of us to further our education. He came into the marriage with a lot of credit card debbt. I was aware of this debt. We also worked on paying that off. Both of these reasons are why I returned to my job when our son was 2 months old, I was looking at the big picture.

Then 30 years later the big picture is good financially. Our son out on his own and doing well, we in are mid 50's, house paid for, debt low. He decided he wanted a different life and left 3 years ago. After 20 months I filed for divorce. We had a temp. hearing 3 weeks later, he was ordered to pay spousal support and 1000.00 toward my attorney fees. He did not think pensions would have to be shared and he found out the court and laws look differently on that. He thought he would walk with his big income and pension, keep all of that for himself, and was angry that I would get anything from the house.

Our divorce will soon be final. We will sell the house and split the profit. I will receive monthly spousal, permanent modifiable. That means should either of our incomes change, it can be taken back to court and modified, up or down. It means when he retires he can go back to court and have it canceled or lowered. If he does not, he will still owe it but no play check to be garnisheed by CSEA as it now is. It also means that I am entitled to 1/2 of the amount of his pension that was earned during our marriage. I will receive my portion of that when he retires, in addition to 1/2 of the 401K. He found out the court would not let him walk without sharing and he is mighty ticked about that. I think I will be OK because Iam not high maintenance, spend and save wisely. Stbx likes to live a high life, and once again has a credit card with high debt of 17K. We signed settlement papers agreeing to pay our own debt. I owe less than he has on his credit cark on my 2004 car purchased last year, he has more debt than I do with little to show for it other than the memories from all the trips, dinners and gifts to OW.

2 pensions, each of getting social security, house paid for, would have been a good retirement for us both. I hope his decision to leave proves to be worth it to him, for his sake. My life is peaceful and calm (other than divorce settlement related crap and that is almost finished) and I am looking forward to moving and starting over. I will always miss and love what he was but that person turned into someone with alcohol and porn abuse problems, someone I have discovered that I don't want around.

You need to know exactly what marital assets there are, including your husband's pension etc. and an attorney can help with this via the discovery process. Youhave to have a clear picture of all assets before you, or a judge, can make a final decision. Although attorneys can be expensive, a good one who will look out for your financial interests, is well worth their fee when you look at the big picture. An attorney can advise what you are entitled to and knows how to fight to get that for you. An attorney will put your fears to rest.

After 35 years together, I know how hard it is emotionally. Has been 3 years and i still struggle with it at time. I realized long ago the man I married, the person I loved, was gone, and had been gone. He had turned into a person bitter who thought the world was against him, the perfect person. In his mind, everyone was treated better than he,and he was so much more deserving, he the perfect one. He had a lot of frustrations and anger and he took it out on me. I am so glad this person is gone from my day to day life, although he wont' really be gone until this house is sold,which will be post decree, so I will still have hassle from him once the divorce is final.

Do you still have children at home? You mentioned that the house is your children's inheritance. You need to think about your survival first, the inheritance later. Your husband's decision to leave may well mean there will be no inheritance for your kids, so be it, you have to think about you first now, because no one else is doing that. Kids can be supportive etc. but they have their own lives to live and can't/or won't, always be there putting you first. You have to put you first. That ususlly a court fight and an attorney to help you fight the enemy. The enemy is how many of us have had to think of our stbx in order to get what we are entitled to.

Posters on here have been there and are supportive and offer great advice. It is our job to take that advice and discuss with our attorney and then decide which route we want to go.
Sorry so long, wanted to give you some of my history, advice and support. Hang in there, be strong and good luck to you.
Karen


alabama
(enthusiast)
07/16/05 08:41 AM
Re: to Karen1

Hey Karen...You have had a sh*tload on your plate lately...a hard hit with your loss this week...and it sounds like the next couple of weeks are going to be busy as well...You seem to be holding it together well considering...staying up late though, aren't you?..

I hope that you are finding time to have some fun and relaxation for yourself...if not, make it happen...

...think coffee...think chocolate...think movies...think books...think traveling...think friends...think shopping...whatever...just do it...

...sometimes, the hardest thing for us to do is let ourselves have some fun...

Of course...I am aware that you have had and are preparing for the schedule from hell...

Hang in there sweetie...alabama


alabama
(enthusiast)
07/16/05 08:54 AM
Re: more to Karen1

[quote] You have to put you first. Karen [/quote]

More to Karen1...could not have said it better myself...


alabama
(enthusiast)
07/16/05 09:28 AM
Re: jsmom

I think I heard this on TLC or the Discovery Channel...that marriage use to be functional...people needed to stay together for financial reasons and society expectations...but now...people tend to look at marriage in terms of happy or not happy...society expecations are such that expectations along this line (happy or not happy) are just unrealistic...

Karen1
(Pooh-Bah)
07/16/05 02:10 PM
Re: to Karen1

Thanks Alabama. It has been extra trying this week. I just keep telling myself this too shall pass.

My mind does swirl, and I am having some real short nights, and not due to any exciting night life!

Love all your suggestions...This evening I am going out for a nice steak dinner with a girl from work. FIrst we will go work out. Is great set up. Work in city gov. our PD has an exercise room, so we can take our 50 ish bodies there and usually have the room to ourselves. Checked out some new books from the library last evening. Thinking about either going to visit a cousin in FL this fall, or my aunt in NC, Smoly Mtns., and my female co worker, also divorced, kids grown, also does not like to travel alone, and I want to do some traveling, maybe just weekend trips. And, coffee is a main staple in my diet, as in chocolate. Then there are the great people here on DS. All things that get me through.

When my mind starts to swirl, I just have to tell it to stop and concentrate on one thing. With the wedding in one week and 2 hours, my main focus is the wedding. Then I had a day like yesterday when my attorney and I were on the phone 4 separate times as she did the final decree papers.

Hoping the final trial goes forth as scheduled on the 27th, but that will depend on if the pensions qdro's are in my attorneys hands at minimim of 2 days prior. They may not be due to his attorneys not ordering them as he said he would. Whatever happens, it should be over by sometime in AUg. at the latest. Of course I anticipate problems from stbx during the house sale process as he has been uncooperative, secretive, and presented problems all along. This has been going on for 3 years. I long for getting this house sold and finding a small house on a, small lot to purchase. Only then will Ifeel I am settled. Not sure I will know how to act at that point, no thoughts of divorce process, house sale and buy etc. Guess I will find myself with some spare time. maybe I will finally get my photo albums in the order I want them in.


Karen1
(Pooh-Bah)
07/16/05 02:20 PM
Re: jsmom

Alabama., that is the exact reason my stbx left... he was not happy and not willing to go to marital counseling. When our 26 year old sons makes attempts to talk to him about the divorce, all stbx will say is that he decided he was never going to be unhappy again. How unrealistic. He was angry over a lot of things, let a lot of minor things get to him in a big way. Things like most all of the other drivers on the road, he would get so angry I knew his blood pressure had to be high, would just bitch about these drivers for 5 minutes after whatever he perceived their offense to be, often as minor as no turn signal. So to think that this man could never be unhappy again, makes me laugh.

I actually feel sorry for him, his views of how he wants the world to be are never going to happen for him. He feels he is just about perfect in all areas of his life,, the rest of the world is off. In reality I think he is narcissistic and paranoid. I am finding I don't miss that in my life. I am realizing that his leaving is one of the best things that could happen for me. I just find the process so frustrating now, want to get to the point that the only dealings I have with stbx is seeing him at functions pertaining to our son, his almost wife and future babies.


jsmom
(newbie)
07/16/05 02:49 PM
Re: jsmom

I'm not for staying in a situation where you are miserable. Heck, my ex had multiple affairs and a record of spousal abuse. Not to mention he wouldn't work. But, gosh I hate to think that should I ever decide that marriage was a good idea for me (LOL! I don't see the day!) that I would have to go into it thinking that there was always a way out if it didn't work. It's supposed to last forever. Of course, it's hard. Everything is hard! Raising kids is hard! I can't quit that job! But, sometimes we think there is greener grass out there and the truth is, there's not. For me, there was because of the terrible situation I was in. But, it's really hard to let go of the fairy tale, white picket fence, SUV, and a dog in the yard picture that we all have of what life is supposed to be. And it's hard when you see "everyone" else living that dream. Of course, who really knows there situation. Geez! Now I'm really depressed!

lostandalone
(recently joined)
07/16/05 09:07 PM
Re: I don't get it



Hey lostandalone...forget the job analogy...soooooo...if you do not know why she left...how do you know that it will minimize the pain?..doesn't make sense...

I'm not going to buy into this "...what did I do wrong" crap...find something else to focus on... [/quote]

Unfortunately you are mistaken alabama...I know "why" she left I just don't understand the events that led to it (maybe there are none...but maybe there are...that's what I don't know). Actually I threw her out...she knew I would once I found out...probably didn't have the courage to leave on her own so she forced my hand. I believe she is going through her "mid-life crisis"....and this was her solution.

"Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it".....If I ever want to have a serious relationship again I need to learn from "the past". If I did nothing wrong and it was just her....so be it....I just want an answer...otherwise I will live my life with my three children (dogs)alone and won't bother to get involved with anyone else for fear of the same scenario occuring again.


kav
(old hand)
07/16/05 09:20 PM
Re: I don't get it

As much as we would like to know what made our spouse's leave, we probably never will. They certainly have reached a point where they aren't going to discuss past problems with us. We just have to except it and move on. Things are so much different today. Marriage doesn't have the same meaning it use to. There was an article in a NY paper that was very interesting regarding divorce. Years ago women stayed home and took care of the children, now women are out there working right along with men. Before marriages had to stay together for financial reasons. Now women can support themselves. Therefore it's easier to call an end to the marriage. Sad as it is, we just don't work at it anymore. So when one of the spouse's gets a little bored or wants more out of life, they can move on. When I went to school if your parents were divorced you were in the minority. Now if you have both parents still together you're in the minority. I don't know how anybody else reading this board feels. But personally, I don't want to get involved ever again because I don't ever want to feel this pain again. I am not a believer in "happily ever after" anymore. Everyone tells me that in time this feeling will change. Not if I can help it.

lostandalone
(recently joined)
07/16/05 10:12 PM
Re: I don't get it

I agree with you totally Kay....I have no desire to get involved with anyone again....the "hurt" I experienced is something I never, ever, wish to feel again...yes it hurts being alone but not as bad as the event that led up to being alone. To be truthful, I know exactly what caused my stbx to stray....I just am not comfortable explaining at this point for everyone to read...again what I wish I could understand is what made someone take such a radical change in their thinking and actions.

The only positive thing that has come from this for me is I actually have some money in the bank. She controlled all the finances and I just let her do what needed to be done. We were always "strugling" with money, but I now find myself paying the house payment, my car payment, credit card, 2nd mortgage -(that paid off all her credit card debt)
and suddenly I actually have extra money in my accounts !!!
I am still trying to figure out where all the money went since she also worked and made almost as much as me...I guess at this point it doesn't matter, but it is one of the little details that keeps me awake at night.
As a side note, when I went to school, I was in the minority. My parents divorced when I was 8 (1968-69 and I went to a Catholic grade school)...the ridicule was terrible sometimes, but I also believe it did make me stronger....the expierences I felt is probably why I have no connections with religion anymore.


kav
(old hand)
07/16/05 10:23 PM
Re: I don't get it

See you did get something positive out of this experience. You can get your finances in order and start doing things for you. If you look hard enough you can find something good when something bad happens. Me? I got to find out just how wonderful my co-workers are!! I could have never done this without them. Good luck to you. Hang in there and take it one step at a time.

alabama
(enthusiast)
07/17/05 08:07 AM
Re: lostandalone imploding

[quote]
Unfortunately you are mistaken alabama...I know "why" she left I just don't understand the events that led to it (maybe there are none...but maybe there are...that's what I don't know). Actually I threw her out...

"Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it".....[/quote]

Man, you are loopy...

Okay, I'll give you the conclusion of your research project...some people are crappy...


alabama
(enthusiast)
07/17/05 09:16 AM
Re:getting the h*ll out of town

I would have to have a serious reward planned for myself if I was dealing with what you have going on...damn, straight...get to the smokies...a beach...anywhere...

I could say to myself..."man, when this wedding is over I know I'm headed out of here"...


alabama
(enthusiast)
07/17/05 09:19 AM
Re: jsmom meltdown

So jsmom...are you generally in a constant state of meltdown or is it just on the weekends?..

Karen1
(Pooh-Bah)
07/17/05 05:54 PM
Re:getting the h*ll out of town

Alabama, I have been thinking exactly along those lines. Might head to FL and visit my cousin... maybe find one of the 99% of the male population who are not like Bill Clinton, as Capt. Jim posted about in another thread. LOL, last think I want in my life at present is a man, doing just fine on my own.

alabama
(enthusiast)
07/18/05 07:40 AM
Re:getting the h*ll out of town

do it Karen...just think about all that warm sand running between your toes...sound of the waves...fresh seafood...salty ocean breezes...naps outside with a glass of your favorite beverage nearby...

NancyD
(Pooh-Bah)
07/18/05 09:14 AM
Re: I don't get it

If you don't reflect on it at all, that makes you as callus as the spouse who left, in my mind. Reflect, absorb/understand what you can, and then move on. Getting stuck in the middle is the bad part. Looping it over and over in your mind, like a bad movie.

There is a saying that we relive the mistakes in our lives until we understand the message. I'd rather do that in my mind than in real life.


Karen1
(Pooh-Bah)
07/18/05 11:03 AM
Re:getting the h*ll out of town

Now you are making my mind and my mouth water!! .... My brother is a cop and will be leaving in Sept. for a year in Iraq to help train the Iraqi police force. Not anything our large family wants, but will support his decision. We also have a female cousin (sister to the one I will visit in FL) who has been there a year and headed back for another, after some additional training in DC. She will still be invovled with the Embassy but in a much higher position.

So sometime after my brother leaves, I will head for FL and do just as you advised me to think about. Wonder if it is too much to ask that by the time I am in FL... I will have gotten really lucky and this house will be sold and I will be settled permantly in another.


jsmom
(newbie)
07/18/05 12:50 PM
Re: jsmom meltdown

Alabama, not in any kind of meltdown. Quite content with the status quo. Dealing with one day at a time....

alabama
(enthusiast)
07/18/05 03:16 PM
Re: jsmom meltdown

I hear ya...if you say so...

I like taking it one day a time...sometimes I need to take it one minute at a time...


alabama
(enthusiast)
07/18/05 03:35 PM
Re: NancyD

Regardless of what you and I say...individuals are going to reflect on what happened...and this will happen according to the nature of the individual involved...

Usually, with separation issues involved...a person has to brace for some god awful decisions...all this with depression and emotional distress in play...

I insist that it is pointless for someone under this severity of duress to be trying to figure out "what went wrong" or etc. in their relationship...in due time...but not now...


alabama
(enthusiast)
07/18/05 03:48 PM
Re: jsmom

Oh, jsmom, I know what I wanted to say...you were talking about "everyone else living that dream" (re:picket fence, suv and all that jazz)...

No way is it ever that perfect...with the stress people are subject to in todays world...there are a lot of "perfect" people coming apart at the seams...google some health stats if you really want a jolt...


CaptainJim
(enthusiast)
07/18/05 04:07 PM
Re: jsmom

I laughed when I bought my house a few years ago becaue it has a white picket fence around it. Care to guess what's in the garage? lol

jsmom
(newbie)
07/19/05 12:53 AM
Re: jsmom

Uh- an SUV, Captain Jim? LOL!!!!!!

jsmom
(newbie)
07/19/05 12:59 AM
Re: jsmom

Alabama, I had a dream. Then it went to the crapper. LOL!!! Now I have a new dream. I'm pretty resilient... ex just hates that. LOL!!

CaptainJim
(enthusiast)
07/19/05 07:22 AM
Re: jsmom

[quote]Uh- an SUV, Captain Jim? LOL!!!!!! [/quote]

LOL, yes I'm ashamed to say. But I am going to trade it in this year and get a jeep and a small sports car. Let's pretend I'm doing it to help the environment.



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