| flannelgeisha |
| (recently joined) |
| 06/19/09 10:42 PM |
How can we get the kids out?
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My sister's ex-husband has custody of their two kids. While she pays child support, we've just discovered that they've been w/out power for 3 MONTHS. We contacted the Sheriffs office who sent someone out there. His exact words were, "If that man wasn't holding custody papers I'd tell you to come get your kids right now." Yet he did not file a report w/ DHR. Since no report was filed, DHR is unwilling to help (didn't even offer to send someone out there to check on them.) We filed a petition for protection and was denied (and w/ temps in the high 90s with no power!). The house is unfit to live in even with power. What else can we do to get them out of there quickly? We are filing for custody and are also filing a contempt of court due to violation of visitation. He demands more money than court ordered in order for her to see her children.
| d0b0vgall2020 |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 06/20/09 11:15 AM |
Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Sounds like you are doing everything you can. I'm surprised DHR is unwilling to do anything. They told you they couldn't even investigate? Can you get the police report and bring it to DHR?
| flannelgeisha |
| (recently joined) |
| 06/20/09 11:27 AM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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DHR wouldn't even take down any information. Not the names of the children, the address, or eve my sister's name. Their exact words were, "There lots of kids without power, the most we'll do is help them get the power on." That's what the child support is for! To care for the children!
| d0b0vgall2020 |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 06/20/09 11:32 AM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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I would continue to file contempt charges and try to enforce the visitation. It's sad that DHR is not taking this seriously. It never ceases to amaze me that they will investigate a parent because the other claims "they are unfit" just so they have something to take to court but when kids are REALLY being neglected they have no problem with it and won't waste their time.
I wish I knew something else to tell you and I wish you and your sis the best of luck in getting the kids out.
| DeeCan |
| (veteran) |
| 06/20/09 12:16 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Deputies are mandatory reporters. If he said that to you but didn't file a report with DHR, I'd take him to task over it.
| flannelgeisha |
| (recently joined) |
| 06/20/09 12:21 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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That is next on our list, to contact the officer. He agreed that the children needed to be removed but yet didn't file a report. DHR said that he's required to if abuse is suspected. You'd think making children live without power would be considered abuse.
| DeeCan |
| (veteran) |
| 06/20/09 07:34 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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No power isn't considered abuse. My parents did it for the first several years of their life.
| Yes_Dad |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/21/09 08:11 AM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Quote:
No power isn't considered abuse. My parents did it for the first several years of their life.
Mo it isn't but there are plenty of programs, either through the state or electric companies that would enable him to have power, especially since he has the kids and CS isn't considered income. This is a guy who won't get off his ass to get the help he needs. Sounds like he dosen't work either.
| flannelgeisha |
| (recently joined) |
| 06/21/09 09:22 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Hasn't worked in years (10+) Lives off the child support. That's why he wants more. Too antisocial to apply for any help to pay bills. Mental problems are an issue. Was ordered to take anger management but never went.
| finz |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/22/09 01:59 AM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Quote:
No power isn't considered abuse. My parents did it for the first several years of their life.
*******************************************
We are paying good money to stay at a state campground for the whole month of July.....sans power
| flannelgeisha |
| (recently joined) |
| 06/23/09 06:37 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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According to the intake officer at that Counties DHR office, not having power is not considered neglect except in the winter. Since they live in Alabama where the temperature rarely goes below freezing yet we have heat advisories almost daily during the summer, I am perplexed. People die in extreme temperatures every year. And considering they live in a mobile home with no shade above it, they might as well be locked in a car in the summer sun. The heat index for today was 105 and the summer has just begun. DHR will not even send someone out there to check on their welfare unless physical abuse is reported. And these are the people that's supposed to be looking out for our kids.....
| finz |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/23/09 07:01 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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If not having power is not neglect in that county, then why would you expect DHR to go out to investigate ?
Locked in a car in the summer sun is not an accurate analogy here unless you are saying the mobile home has no windows and the kids are restrained from going outside and sitting beneath a tree with a glass of water. No one is required by law to have AC
What does CP say about the situation ? Do they have a plan for getting more money and having power ?
| finz |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/23/09 07:06 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Is he neglectful in any way that the court would recognize ? Do the kids have enough food ? Do they see a doctor ? Do they go to school ?
| flannelgeisha |
| (recently joined) |
| 06/24/09 10:06 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Being without power is only considered neglect in the winter. I find this appalling considering our winters are mild but heat advisories are issued almost daily in the summer. People suffer from heat stroke, exhaustion and even die every year in this state.
Voluntarily camping at a campground with shade trees and a lake to refresh yourself in (I'm sure there is some water nearby), does not compare to the conditions that these children are enduring. Summers here are brutal. Mobile homes are constructed with metal which makes them heat conductors. A mobile home sitting in the open sun gets extremely hot even with the windows open. Without power they can't use a fan to circulate the air. We know they don't have power; so it is very likely that they may not have running water either.
The investigating officer stated that they had a cooler for food but what was in the cooler? Without power they can’t cook. Lunch meat and cheese are most likely what they are eating. Hardly a proper diet for growing children.
A parent paying child support expects that the children are being cared for adequately. Child support is to provide the basic necessities. Most people do consider power a necessity. Here in this day and age, most people believe a cell phone is a necessity. Anyone who has experienced an Alabama summer will join me in saying, “Thank God for air conditioning”.
Their father has mental issues which makes him very reclusive and he keeps the children close. The father’s family has limited contact; the mother’s family has none. We do not know if the children have been to the doctor. We assume that they did attend school since DHR would have investigated if a truant officer reported them absent.
Doing without power due to financial reasons beyond your control is one thing, but this man is a computer programmer who has not worked in ten years. He is a heavy smoker and it is doubtful that he is denying himself this luxury.
WHERE IS THIS PARENT’S CHILD SUPPORT GOING?
| finz |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/25/09 12:35 AM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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I don't know where the CS is going.
I agree that it is disgraceful the dad isn't attempting to work.
I like power and AC and refridgeration. I'm doing just fine WITHOUT a cellphone.
That county does not consider it neglectful to not have power (except in the winter) Get over it......move on. I understand that you find it neglectful, but the court in that county will not agree with you, as the law and children's services have already told you.
Focus instead on the issues that could be considered neglectful in that county. If your sister hopes to win this custody battle, that would be more prudent. Find out all you can about his mental issues. Does your sister have any court ordered visitation ? If so, she needs to get there and demand her visitation. Does she have court ordered joint legal custody ? If so, she can get the school records which would also have the kids pediatrician listed.
I do understand your concern. I hope that your sister is able to ensure the safety of her children. I just think she needs to focus on the issues that the court will be interested in. One of the male posters here has often told the story of how the CS he sent to his first ex for their children was used to support their kids, the ex, ex's new husband (neither he or poster's ex wife worked), and some of the money was sent to the new hubby's ex and his kids for his CS. Very little of the support the poster was sending for his kids was actually spent on his kids. That's just plain wrong, but the courts don't care ! As angry as it makes you, I don't think the courts will take action because your sister's ex spends some of the CS money on cigarettes and not power. It's not right, but there is little the courts can do as the system is because CPs are not required to account for how CS is spent. That has been a complaint of many NCPs who post here.
There are usually social services agencies who can help out if someone cannot afford utility bills. I don't know why your ex bil has not looked into that......maybe because of the mental health issues. If he is making poor choices on other issues as well, there should be something you can find that would be considered neglectful in the eyes of the court.
| shortmarriage |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 06/25/09 01:08 AM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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I'm in ATL and it's friggin HOT! I cannot imagine not having power! Like you said, no power means no fan to even circulate the air!
Living without power and choosing to go without power on a vacation is not the same thing, although some posters here will try to compare the two!
It amazes me how often posters here will give advice that they wouldn't take themselves!
Yes, power is a necessity. Do not give up on this. Something should be done in this situation. Keep following through.
Good luck!
| Redlegg |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/25/09 04:34 AM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Then the government should pay for the power. I cannot believe they let private companies charge and make a profit for things that are a right.
Right after I got divorced, it was final in May of some year... I could not afford the power bill if I used the AC, I went without. After Hurricane Rita, 8 days with no power, which in turn meant no food in the stores, no gas pumped, no water pumped. Valuable lessons learned, and one of those was you can do without. Yeah it sucks, but it stil needs to be a choice, not someone jumping up and saying hey, thats abuse. If it is freaking bad, OP can pay for the electricity, see how much sympathy that idea gets......
| finz |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/26/09 04:05 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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The point is that IF power were a necessity, I could not chose to take my kids on vacation without it. If I took them camping without food, that would be neglectful. Going camping without power is not neglectful.
Living with no power is not optimal. No one is arguing that. There is a big difference between 'not optimal' and neglect.
It amazes me that some posters here cannot grasp simple logic.
| Debi |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/26/09 09:36 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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If you are not getting the results you want from county officials then threaten to go the media. Newspapers love stories like that. I would do anything and everything possible to get my own kids out of that situation.
No, air conditioning is not a necessity, however i don't think the posters who think you should get over it have ever lived in a mobile home that had no shade around it. I have. It is down right dangerous to be inside all day with no air circulating. Comparing it to a car is not that far off. Doesn't matter if the windows open or not. AL is hot and humid and the air doesn't move much.
CAll the newspapers, I almost guarantee that if you haven't gotten any satisfaction elsewhere they will jump on it. Then contact every government official in the state that you can think of including the governor. I'm not being sarcastic. DO IT!
| flannelgeisha |
| (recently joined) |
| 06/26/09 10:08 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Thank you finz for your suggestions. I will look into them.
Yes she does have visitation and on the next court appointed day she will be there to visit with the children, local police on speed-dial.
As for the social services that will assist, we are looking into that. While my sister would pay the bill if she could, I'm sure the bill is large and filing for custody is expensive. Legal aid doesn't handle custody cases (or at least we haven't found any that will) and lawyers are not cheap.
Forgive me if I seemed to be beating a dead horse on the county's policies regarding neglect. The last time I was the inside of that home (Oct.) it looked like a landfill had been dumped inside a trailer. They had pathways through the garbage and junk to go from room to room.
| finz |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/26/09 10:55 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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"It is down right dangerous to be inside all day with no air circulating"
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But Debi, we don't know that the kids are locked up inside there all day with no air circulating. I don't think anyone has said this whole situation is fine, leave th
em be. It's a case of the county and children's services have already told them that no power is a moot point. No sense in them barking up the wrong tree.
Flannel.....Yuck ! What a nasty sounding situation. The junk pile up might be a good angle to pursue. As a visiting nurse, I know we had good luck with getting Elder Services to intervene when elders had piles of newspapers and stacks of junk everywhere because that is a fire hazard and could prevent emergency services from entering the home and getting someone out. Chain smoker plus junk all over is a fire hazard.
| shortmarriage |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 06/27/09 12:33 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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"It amazes me that some posters here cannot grasp simple logic."
Simple logic tells me that camping without power (a vacation) and children living long term in a trailer full of junk in AL without power is not the same thing. Apples and oranges.
| Redlegg |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/27/09 09:36 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Having no power just means they are living like the government wants them to, they are living greener than most.
Actually if they are living in squalor and unsanitary conditions, that is a different problem. Power alone is workable, but nasty is not. Call CPS, and find out what you need to do to get them involved, it would seem with all the issues combined, they may do something quickly.
| Yes_Dad |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/28/09 11:36 AM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Quote:
Having no power just means they are living like the government wants them to, they are living greener than most.
Actually if they are living in squalor and unsanitary conditions, that is a different problem. Power alone is workable, but nasty is not. Call CPS, and find out what you need to do to get them involved, it would seem with all the issues combined, they may do something quickly.
Your right. The sanitary thing is more important than power. As someone said, a LOT of people live without power (how, I don't know). But in reality, the question is how does the OP's sister NOT have custody if this guy is so messed up. Won't work, squalor, even getting (I know you hate this) state help. Power is not a "right" You still have to pay for it. But it sounds like the guy is a total goofball, living in a trailer, refusing to work, without power. How the hell could the OP's sister just not motion the court for custody. The have to do what is in the best interest of the kids. BTW, I apologize to anyone who lives in a mobile home. I take it to mean a little trailer.
But electric is cut all the time on people. Specifically in the city. Mainly on the west side. No one is yanking the kids. But if they were living in squalor in a trailer (which couldn't happen in the city), DCFS would remove the kids. And a judge would certainly change custody if the OP's sister wasn't a nut of some kind.
| finz |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/28/09 03:34 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Quote:
"It amazes me that some posters here cannot grasp simple logic."
Simple logic tells me that camping without power (a vacation) and children living long term in a trailer full of junk in AL without power is not the same thing. Apples and oranges.
*************************************************
If it was against the law to do, you couldn't do it on vacation either.
Get it yet ?
| Redlegg |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/28/09 07:06 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Unless of course you vacation in vegas
:) with the griswolds
| shortmarriage |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 06/28/09 11:05 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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I don't think I said anything about being "against the law?"
Just curious....what state are you in finz?
| Redlegg |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/29/09 06:17 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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I am in the state of Self delusion, it is not far from the city on the edge of forever, but i was born in a galaxy far far away
| DeeCan |
| (veteran) |
| 06/29/09 08:13 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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I know many people here where I live in TN that live in trailers (single wides). They can be so expensive to cool with window air conditioners (most won't have a central heat and air system that is standard around here), that they only run it certain times of the day. The rest of the time they make do in the shade.
TN is a lot like AL. High humidity, heat warnings much of the summer. But it is tolerable.
My husband works in a machine shop all day with no A/C. (Would be pointless with the heat coming off the machines) He manages.
My grandmothers raised all t heir children in homes with no power. No AC. No running water.
They're all fine.
It can be done. It has been done.
Should he not be using the CS to take care of the children, provide a basic like electric? No, but it's still not grounds for removal.
His mental and the physical state of the house ARE issues. And they need to focus on those.
Btw, most electric companies in the South will not cut off power during heat warnings. So I'm guessing this guy has been going for a while without it.
| shortmarriage |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 06/29/09 08:27 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Red, I love your humor! It is fantastic! You always know the right thing to say! How do you do it? You are a SUPERSTAR!
| finz |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/29/09 08:53 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Quote:
I don't think I said anything about being "against the law?"
Just curious....what state are you in finz?
*****************************************
In a state where neglecting your children is against the law
| Redlegg |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/29/09 08:54 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Come on, which one, which one..people wanna knowwwwwwww........
| finz |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/29/09 08:56 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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I'm a masshole, but I'm leaving for your neck of the woods (to camp in the Adirondaks then in Schoharie (?spelling) tomorrow or the next day
| shortmarriage |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 06/29/09 09:05 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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I hear ya, Dee. But, it's just not right.
In the areas that have high heat, it's rarely tolerable. I speak from experience. I've lived in ATL since I was year old. I remember SOME summers growing up, my mom either couldn't afford the A/C or it was not working, probably the latter. I had 2 sisters, and we still "joke" about those days that it wasn't worth curling your hair (OMG- we used hot rollers back in the day) or putting on makeup, because you would melt in the process. The heat was crazy!
I still live in ATL. It's incredibly HOT! PM was just posting about the weather, asking if she would ever get a summer??? OMG It's been so friggen HOT here!
Honestly, I've not yet put my A/C on! It's been a huge burden on me and my cat! The heat is literally nauseating! I have been too frugal due to my impending divorce and the fact that I cannot pay my bills due to my divorce being dragged out over 10 months now. But, my family recently told me that even though I'm living frugally with my divorce, living without A/C is not the route to go. It's just not healthy here with the heat. I decided last night that I would put the A/C on.
I've had my thermostat say 90 degrees in my apartment! It's so hot, no apetite, it's hard to get comfortable to sleep. Taking cold showers to cool off becomes a necessity just to feel somewhat comfortable!
Dee. if your husband works without air, it's temporary during the day. He comes home to some comfort, right? (Like I said before, my point is short term can be bearable....Whether that's at certain points of the day, or if it's a vacation). To me, that's not the same thing.
Times have changed, utilities are prevalent, and the heat nowadays is unbearable without the utilities that are available.
Yes, Dee. It pobably can be done, and has been done. But, would you want your children to be living in these conditions?
I can "torture" myself all I "want" to without A/C. Do these children have any say in the matter???
If I had someone here with me (other than my cat), I would not expose them to this situation.
I thin it has A LOT to do with where you're located in the states, some are hotter than others. I'm sure that people in the cooler climates don't realize how hot it can get, and what it's like to live like that long term.
| shortmarriage |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 06/29/09 09:08 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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So, finz, I'll take it that you're not anywhere that the inside without A/C gets 90 degrees or more????
That's what I thought..........
| Redlegg |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/29/09 09:10 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Where at in the adirondacks, i spent my summers about 12 miles from lake chanplain near a small town called keesville, actually still do on the weekends and schoharie is about 25 miles from where i am now, thats too cool.
| Redlegg |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/29/09 09:12 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Howe caverns???
| finz |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/29/09 11:31 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Quote:
So, finz, I'll take it that you're not anywhere that the inside without A/C gets 90 degrees or more????
That's what I thought..........
*************************
Yes, it gets above 90 here too.
It gets that hot many places. When the authorities in those places (county court AND CPS) say no electricity is not neglect, they teach us northeners not to think we now better than those folks down south whose job it is to enforce the local laws.
Thankfully, OP seems to have a better grasp on the obvious than you do.
| finz |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/29/09 11:38 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Quote:
Howe caverns???
***************************************
First we are going to Upper Saranac Lake to visit with family who own one of the cottages of the old Saranac Inn. We'll be staying down the road at Fish Creek Pond Campground. The second week we move to our friend's place in Schoharie....about 10 minutes from Howes Cavern
| shortmarriage |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 06/29/09 11:52 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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It's become a pattern that you must feel better from your postings. I'll TRY to make a habit and take that into consideration. Getting into any kind of a "pissing match" with you is worthless. You're determined to make yourself feel better by whatever you post. You're all about being condescending, and that's all about all you seem to offer.
Hope you feel better soon!
| Redlegg |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/30/09 05:16 AM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Thats funny, the upper saranac is a little bit west of where I stay up there, and schoharie is just a lttle bit west of here. Both very nice areas, I know you will have a good time.
| flannelgeisha |
| (recently joined) |
| 08/18/09 06:40 PM |
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Re: How can we get the kids out?
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Just to give an update on the status of the original post:
The children are now living in a van and are not enrolled in school (although school started almost two weeks ago). After many numerous attempts to get DHR involved we've been told that they have to be homeless for DHR to step in. Now that they are we've been told that it's up to us to locate them and only then will DHR step in.