| 1966Gal |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 11:49 AM |
OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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China just made an interesting move. They are RAISING the price of oil in their country themselves. What will that do? Economics 101 - it will decrease demand/use. As demand falls so does prices.
Interesting move, I think. We could RAISE oil prices via a gas tax so that very few people will use gas. Yeah, it would temporarily impede our lifestyle, but it would force the oil companies to lower their prices.
Good points about rising gas prices:
We'll use less gas - better for the environment.
We'll have fewer cars on the road - better for traffic...I've already noticed that on my way to work each day.
The cost of shipping goods from overseas will increase the price of many goods, meaning it could become cheaper to make the goods here and in Mexico...bringing jobs back to North America.
And, with less demand, the oil producing nations will be making much less money and will have to lower their prices to get us buy more.
| Miranda |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 11:53 AM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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Brazil started to liberate themselves from oil in the 70's. There are now an oil independent nation. We need to do the same. It took a basically third world nation 30 years to come up with something, it should take us less.
We should cut off OPEC. Drill in the US and become independent in 20 years. Tell OPEC to kiss our ass.
| LeAnne |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 12:02 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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So when are YOU pulling the bike out of the shed?
Maybe you need to quit taking vacations?
Maybe your kids should not go to Europe, do you know how much fuel, it's going to cost to fly their butts over there?
Just what we need more taxes!!!!!
I think you need to look at people that live week to week. The ones who only drive to work and to the store.
If gas goes much higher, these people will be at the foodstamp line, because they can't afford gas and food.
Then you will be complaining you have to pay more taxes to support them.
| 1966Gal |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 12:04 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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No, because the gas tax will be paying for all of that.
Personally, I think we need to eliminate income tax and go for ONLY gas tax. We pay $15 gal and that's all. That way, the wealthy, who can afford to drive big vehicles and travel will be paying higher taxes. The poor and middle-class can regulate how much they spend. Ross Perot summed it pretty good a few years ago and it made total sense to me!
| Redlegg |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 12:08 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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And if the rich and famous go green like they can afford to, what then? its like NY and the new cigarrette tax, they wanted the tax to increase revenue, now they are saying it will encourage people to quit, well what happens when they lose all that revenue from the former smokers, hmmmmm maybe they can just convince people to do more with less.
| LeAnne |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 12:12 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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And how do poor people, regulate their gas?
Ok I have money to get to work 3 days a week, I'll just stay home the rest?
Maybe they should start heavily taxing vacation homes, timeshares, air travel, and boats, because if you can afford those things, you have way to much money.
| 1966Gal |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 12:13 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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And if the rich and famous go green like they can afford to, what then? its like NY and the new cigarrette tax, they wanted the tax to increase revenue, now they are saying it will encourage people to quit, well what happens when they lose all that revenue from the former smokers, hmmmmm maybe they can just convince people to do more with less.
+++++++++
I actually LIKE that idea. What happens to the revenue as people quit? You keep raising the tax until EVERYONE quits. Then you go back to drawing board as to how to replace the cigarette tax revenue.
Personally, I like the idea of a flat tax for EVERYBODY...15% with NO DEDUCTIONS, and then luxury (2% - 3%) taxes on luxury items...cars over $50k. Boats, campers, RV's, electronics over a certain dollar amount, houses over a certain square footage, plane tickets over a certain amount, etc...
| 1966Gal |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 12:14 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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LOL Leanne, we wrote that at the same time. I agree with you on taxing luxury items.
| LeAnne |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 12:20 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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Eliminate all taxes? Just spit diet dew on the screen.
So you think that gas at 4.00 added with 11.00 worth of taxes should cover it all? Like SS, Medicare, military pay, welfare, the whole caboose? I really think you need a better understanding of what kind of money it takes to keep this country afloat?
| 1966Gal |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 12:21 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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We use BILLIONS of gallons of gas a year. That would billions and billions of dollars a year...equal to, if not more, than income tax is currently providing.
| LeAnne |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 12:22 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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So are you ready to pay on all your luxury items?
| 1966Gal |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 12:27 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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Yep! I would gladly pay a 2 to 3% luxury tax if I had a flat tax of 15% or a $10 gas tax in lieu of income tax.
The average American uses 500 gallons of gas a year (man, woman and child.) With our current population of 300,000,000, that's 150,000,000,000 (BILLON) gallons a year. Put a $10 tax per gallon, and you have $1.5 TRILLON dollars a year in revenue.
| LeAnne |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 12:29 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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Then what do you do with all the tobacco farmers, the people at the factory, the guys who do the shipping?
Sure keep raising the tax, but now what do you do with all the unemployed people?
They just had on the news, they are laying off a bunch of people at BJC, health systems. The ones that are getting fired are the upper fat, or trimming the FAT they call it. So now all those BIG WIGS are out of jobs. I guess I will be seeing their Boat and RV on Ebay soon? Wonder what they are going to do with that 2 million dollar home?
| 1966Gal |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 12:33 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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Then what do you do with all the tobacco farmers, the people at the factory, the guys who do the shipping?
Sure keep raising the tax, but now what do you do with all the unemployed people?
++++++++
Are you saying that we shouldn't try to eliminate smoking because we don't want to put the tobacco industy out of business???
Seriously? Should we not have moved on to Refridgerators so the Ice Box companies could stay afloat?
Sorry, the onus is on industry and people to keep their skills current with the times. We don't impede innovation because we don't want to put old technology out of business!
If we all thought like that, we'd still be carrying around those brick, cell phones and using dial-up modems!
| madalex |
| (enthusiast) |
| 06/19/08 12:39 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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[quote]Yep! I would gladly pay a 2 to 3% luxury tax if I had a flat tax of 15% or a $10 gas tax in lieu of income tax.
The average American uses 500 gallons of gas a year (man, woman and child.) With our current population of 300,000,000, that's 150,000,000,000 (BILLON) gallons a year. Put a $10 tax per gallon, and you have $1.5 TRILLON dollars a year in revenue. [/quote]
The current federal budget is around $3 trillion, so your $10 gas tax would only cover half of that.
In addition, a $10 gas tax would drastically reduce demand for gas (as you stated in a previous post), so the actual revenue raised would be significantly less than $1.5 trillion.
Finally, the cost of every good that must be delivered to you by train, truck or ship (which is just about everything) would skyrocket.
| LeAnne |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 12:46 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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So how about a 8% flat tax for those making under 50,000 combined, a 15% flat tax for 50,000 and over and a 25% luxury tax? That way the people with all the cash, can support all us poor people?
| 1966Gal |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 12:51 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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So, 8% for the first $50k. Then 15% for everything earned over $50k?
So, if I make $120k, I would pay $4000 (8%x$50k) plus $10,500 ($70k * 15%) for a total of $14,500. Then 25% luxury tax? Nobody gets ANY deductions, right? I don't care if you have 1 kid or 10, no deductions. I don't care if you have a mortgage or not...NO DEDUCTIONS? FLAT TAX, right?? Yeah, I love it!
But I think the luxury tax is a little too high. I could see a 10% luxury tax. The key is to charge enough so it provides lots of revenue, but not so much that it is a deterrant to spending.
| LeAnne |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 12:51 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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Sounds like a Big Mac would cost 20.00. Did you want fries with that? ...that will be 12.50?... Oh a drink too?
Please put your youngest child through the window, we will take him for deposit.
| madalex |
| (enthusiast) |
| 06/19/08 12:51 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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[quote]So how about a 8% flat tax for those making under 50,000 combined, a 15% flat tax for 50,000 and over and a 25% luxury tax? That way the people with all the cash, can support all us poor people? [/quote]
The people with all the cash already support all the poor people, as the top 5% of earners pay 60% of all the federal taxes in this country and the bottom 50% of earners pay only 3% of all taxes.
| Miranda |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 01:01 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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[quote]The people with all the cash already support all the poor people, as the top 5% of earners pay 60% of all the federal taxes in this country and the bottom 50% of earners pay only 3% of all taxes. [/quote]
I would be willing to bet that number is even lower. With things like EITC, most working poor pay no tax at all.
| LeAnne |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 01:02 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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No if you make over 50,000 it's 15% the whole way.
Luxury tax is what it is. If you can afford it, you pay it.
Most people who can afford the luxury, shouldn't care about the tax.
| 1966Gal |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 01:18 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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No, I don't agree with that. The first $50k should be taxed like everyone else's $50k. Anything I make over that, I agree should be at a higher rate.
| KentuckySm |
| (old hand) |
| 06/19/08 01:29 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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There was a luxury tax 6% here in Louisville. They got rid of it. lol Dad was happy
| Redlegg |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 02:13 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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You cannot play with the taxes like that, if you tax on voluntary items, like the luxury items, etc, you are gambling. People may or may not buy those things, and then what. I could see a flat tax on income and taxes on goods, but if you tax things at a higher rate to make people cut back, pretty soon you will tax yoruself out of taxes and when your road doesn't get paved, you will be pissed. it doesn't matter how much money you have, you will complain about taxes, and you will complain about prices. Lets be real, there are people here now who have not changed their driving habits one bit, they can afford it, it affects the people who are struggling, they were struggling before and now just to get back and forth to work, they may be giving their kids less food to eat. How many people here have been worried about how they are going to pay their electric bill because of the prices and how many just said, dang its more expensive.
| Sherron |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 02:45 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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"I think you need to look at people that live week to week. The ones who only drive to work and to the store."
Like ME!
"If gas goes much higher, these people will be at the foodstamp line, because they can't afford gas and food."
As far as I know, there has not been a change in income guidelines to reflect the current economy, so no, I will continue to be ineligbel based on my income.
| Sherron |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 02:52 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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"That way, the wealthy, who can afford to drive big vehicles and travel will be paying higher taxes. The poor and middle-class can regulate how much they spend. "
You're right, I could take my kids to school via bike when it's nice and walk in the winter...let's see, ds' school is 2 miles from my house, dd's school is 6 miles from there, and it's about 2 miles from dd's school to my work. After all, we don't have public transportation here. Then I'd have to figure out how long it'll take me to walk 10 miles every morning, so I can leave early enough. I'm sure there won't be a problem with leaving ds8 by himself in front of his locked school at 6am. I use my afternoon break to pick kids up from school, so, instead of using 20 minutes for pick ups, I will walk the 10 miles to pick them up and take them home, and then walk another 3 miles to get back to my job. In order for me to make up the time (if my employer would even allow this), I can alwasy stay at work til 8pm before I walk home 3 miles. Too bad I don't have time to do ANYTHING, like raise my kids, because I am too busy regulating my spending.
Susan, you are officially an idiot.
| LeAnne |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 03:55 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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I guess I should have said, Food Pantry. H and I watch all the news shows. The one the other night said they have an increase at the food pantry's, up 37%. But the problem is they are running out of food donations, because the big donator's can't afford to just give it away anymore.
| Relayer |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 03:58 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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[quote]Brazil started to liberate themselves from oil in the 70's. There are now an oil independent nation. We need to do the same. It took a basically third world nation 30 years to come up with something, it should take us less.
We should cut off OPEC. Drill in the US and become independent in 20 years. Tell OPEC to kiss our ass. [/quote]
Agree 100%
Lift the drill ban and open the reserves. It's time.
| Relayer |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 04:31 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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There are 10,000 ways to tax people and no one is going to like any of them once they are enacted. The disparity of income in this country makes a flat tax unrealistic. Who says the luxary tax should be 3%. Why not 30%? That is a more real scenario.
No one has even discussed various business taxes yet (which is where the real money is) or a value added tax.
For a country quite capable of becoming fuel independent a $10 a gallon tax is NOT the way to go (unless all those funds were earmarked to development of alternate fuels and/or becoming OPEC independent which would never happen).
We also need to look at various tariffs and of course, foreign aid.
| Relayer |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 04:36 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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And farm subsidies need to be eliminated..
like immediately..
| Miranda |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 04:57 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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[quote]And farm subsidies need to be eliminated..
like immediately.. [/quote]
OMG so true, farmers are the largest recipients of welfare-meaning aid from the government. Did anyone know that? Second larger recipients are college students (which I really don't have a problem with).
| DeeCan |
| (veteran) |
| 06/19/08 06:43 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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its like NY and the new cigarrette tax, they wanted the tax to increase revenue, now they are saying it will encourage people to quit, well what happens when they lose all that revenue from the former smokers....
---- OMG, that is funny. It's just like TN increasing the cig tax to pay for education. Yet, they drill no smoking into these children's heads and, fortunately, it works. But when all these kids are the tax payers and they're not smokers, where's the money for education going to come from??
| spinnerdegrassi |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 06:45 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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It'll come from all the new alcoholics most of them will become.
| Loretta |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 11:16 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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You don't think the price of oil is directly related to the value of the US dollar?
You can't charge a huge tax on fuel and eliminate income tax...how in the world are people going to get to work? Do you know how far the average person must commute? Okay, do that then minimum wage would have to go up so people could pay for the gas it would take to get to work. There would be a sharp rise in welfare...I guess the rich guys can take care of 'em.
| javajunkiee |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/19/08 11:46 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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With the way the economy is we've had people at work lobbying for a 4 day work week. The truckers are having issues making their shipments. Its tightening down in so many ways for people who live paycheck to paycheck. I saw something on cnn yesterday that said economists expect things to get better by mid-2009, but its going to get worse before it gets better.
Besides having an increase on taxes on the higher income earners, and I'd like to see us open up the oil reserves in this country. Just for kicks I'd like to see a big @ss tax on the sale and registration for any auto that gets less than 20mpg. In 5 yrs make it 30mpg. Anyone who is so foolish to continue buying those big SUVs or low mileage sports cars should pay for the privilege *AND* the gas they're guzzling.
| gr8Dad |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/20/08 12:29 AM |
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China aslo has a massive...
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...infrastructure for moving goods via train, therefore gas prices affect there OTHER productions prices less than most of the world.
| gr8Dad |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/20/08 12:33 AM |
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That is called a DEDUCTION...
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...and you don't want that.
| gr8Dad |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/20/08 12:36 AM |
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Great idea...
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...give a tax break to the people that can afford the most recent and best fuel milage vehicle, and tax the crap out of the poor guy who is driving a '75 Mercury, held together with bailing wire because that is all he can afford.
| madalex |
| (enthusiast) |
| 06/20/08 08:01 AM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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[quote]No one has even discussed various business taxes yet (which is where the real money is) or a value added tax.
[/quote]
Raise the corporate tax and the value of your stocks, mutual funds, 401(k)s, pension balances will drop like a rock.
| javajunkiee |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/20/08 01:04 PM |
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Re: Great idea...
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Okay - so it wasn't the best worded idea on the planet. Maybe throw in an exemption for vehicles over a certain mileage or age - my state does.
My POINT is the people that go out and buy these fancy damn SUVs and sports cars, KNOWING the gas mileage sucks, but are all hung up on what they just HAVE to have, need to pay for the privilege over and above the exorbitant price they pay for the vehicle itself.
P.S. How many 1975 Found On Road Dead Mercury's are even road worthy at this point? If someone can afford to keep one of those running maybe they can afford the taxes?
P.P.S. Does a 75 Mercury even use unleaded gas? ;o)
| Reilly |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/20/08 01:09 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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I like the idea behind the fair tax...
You only pay tax on those things that you purchase...
Sales tax would be substantial...
It would help solve some serious socio-economic problems...
| Miranda |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/20/08 01:11 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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[quote]Sales tax would be substantial...
It would help solve some serious socio-economic problems... [/quote]
It would solve problems or creat more problems for the low wage earners?
| Reilly |
| (Carpal \'Tunnel) |
| 06/20/08 01:43 PM |
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Re: OT - Interesting move - Politics of Oil
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Wage earners get to keep ALL of their money and only have to pay taxes on the things they buy....not food...
If you want to buy a 46 inch HDTV plasma television, you'll have to be able to afford the tax on it as well...
According to some of the tax plan, the government will subsidize food and basic needs...cars, television, Ipod's and Nike $350 shoes will require sales tax...
(That isn't a specific relating of the plan...just generalizing)
Drug Dealers, people who work under the table for cash and other unreported earnings would now be taxable by the things they purchase....so what would be the draw to earning money illegally...?
Obviously..I'm not in a real position to debate it..as I have only skimmed the surface..