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cole1020
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spousal support
      #696518 - 10/10/10 06:02 PM

My husband and I separated after 18 years of marriage in March 2010 (Pennsylvania). Our children are 13 and 16 yrs of age. After two custody hearings (filed by him), I was awarded primary physical custody. Because he was very sporadic with any kind of financial support, I filed for child support in September. The hearing was October 4, and apparently my husband and his atty decided to reduce the amount of any child support by filing for spousal support on the spot! I do have an atty., but chose to represent myself at the child support hearing. Saturday I received notice a decision was made on October 7 that I was to be given 799.00/mos child support, but because spousal support was awarded simultaneously (552.00/mos) I will be only receiving 247.00/mos. to support two children! I am a nurse, my husband is self-employed and does not report his true earnings. I provide the medical, dental, and eye coverage for my children. Two months after our separation, he had moved in with his girlfriend. Only three weeks ago he has now moved in with his sister and is apparently staying there rent/utility free. My question is this: Is there no formal process of notification of your spouse having filed for spousal support? (As there was when I requested child support) Is there no hearing to determine a true need for spousal support? He is being awarded an amount based on under reported earnings....Is there anything I can do short of hiring a forensic accountant? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Miranda
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Re: spousal support [Re: cole1020]
      #696519 - 10/10/10 06:12 PM

It is now time for you to hire an attorney.

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gr8Dad
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Re: spousal support [Re: cole1020]
      #696521 - 10/10/10 06:51 PM

How often does he see the children? I am against spousal support except in extreme situations. What is the income disparity between the two of you? What kind of business does he have?

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DedicatedDad
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Re: spousal support [Re: cole1020]
      #696523 - 10/10/10 08:33 PM

The reason the courts tend to use the income he declared even though he may be under reporting, is unless you complained about it to the IRS before, then you must have been ok with it while married. CSE is going to go by whatever your tax return says.

You can hire an expensive forensic accountant, but beware that the IRS will go back 10 years if he hasn't been claiming all his business income, and since you appear to know about it, you will most likely have to pay 1/2 the back taxes to the IRS. With interest, it can be ALOT of money. It depends how much was under reported. Good luck.


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gr8Dad
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Re: spousal support [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #696529 - 10/10/10 09:57 PM

He is being ordered to pay $800 a month in child support, which means his reported income should be around 70-80K. Hers must be SUBSTANTIALLY higher to order spousal support in the amount of $500 a month (unless its pendant lite).

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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googledad
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Re: spousal support [Re: cole1020]
      #696532 - 10/10/10 10:56 PM

My question is this: Is there no formal process of notification of your spouse having filed for spousal support?

>>>>>>> In PA , No , done at the same time , same form . They calculate CS first , SS right after .

Is there no hearing to determine a true need for spousal support?

>>>>>>>> Nope , all based on reported income .

....Is there anything I can do short of hiring a forensic accountant?

>>>>>>> Not really .

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googledad
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Re: spousal support [Re: gr8Dad]
      #696533 - 10/10/10 10:59 PM

The $500/month is 30% of the DIFFERENCE in their incomes AFTER her portion of CS is deducted from her income .

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cole1020
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Re: spousal support [Re: gr8Dad]
      #696536 - 10/11/10 05:04 AM

He has the kids every other weekend, Thursday after school until 5pm Sunday night. He is supposed to have them every Tuesday from after school until 8pm, but seldom takes them (must interfere with his busy life, but it is fine by me). Last year I grossed 55,400, while he grossed 34,600. (but on our taxes his account pretty much showed 2009 as a total loss for him, with deductions and expenses.)

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cole1020
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Re: spousal support [Re: gr8Dad]
      #696537 - 10/11/10 05:09 AM

I am assuming it is pendant lite because no divorce papers have been signed (the order just says spousal support) I have no idea where they came up with the CS and SS numbers, because they had out tax returns. Every support estimator I used for CS didn't come anywhere close to 799.00/mos for CS.

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gr8Dad
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Re: spousal support [Re: cole1020]
      #696550 - 10/11/10 07:31 AM

Right, so you COULD be getting LESS in child support, might want to leave this one alone.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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Miranda
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Re: spousal support [Re: gr8Dad]
      #696561 - 10/11/10 08:35 AM

[quote]Right, so you COULD be getting LESS in child support, might want to leave this one alone. [/quote]

She needs a lawyer, she does not need to leave anything to status quo that she does not understand or agree with.

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1966Gal
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Re: spousal support [Re: cole1020]
      #696571 - 10/11/10 09:46 AM

Sounds very strange to me. It was a child support hearing, not a spousal support hearing.

The fact that they wrapped up spousal support into the child support is odd too. Don't forget to get a thorough accounting of that, because the spousal support is tax-deductible to you and taxable to him. That should save you, big time, on your taxes.

Since you mentioned that you are only seperated, then can I assume that these are just temporary orders?

What did your lawyer say? Never go into a court room without a lawyer.

Hopefully, you have enough knowledge of your H's self-employment to be able to prove that he is under-reporting his income.

The $552 a month in spousal support does sound about right for a long-term marriage and based on the disparity of your income. But that is added to his income and subtracted from yours BEFORE CS is calculated.

Have you run the calcultor to see if the CS numbers are accurate?

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googledad
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Re: spousal support [Re: 1966Gal]
      #696587 - 10/11/10 10:14 AM

Sounds very strange to me. It was a child support hearing, not a spousal support hearing.

>>>>>>>> Not in PA .

pacode.com/secure/data/231/chapter1910/s1910.16-4.html

The $552 a month in spousal support does sound about right for a long-term marriage and based on the disparity of your income. But that is added to his income and subtracted from yours BEFORE CS is calculated.

>>>>>>>> Again , not in PA , CS is calculated FIRST .

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1966Gal
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Re: spousal support [Re: googledad]
      #696589 - 10/11/10 10:17 AM

If CS is calculated first in PA, then the numbers sound about right.

She just needs to make sure that the fact that she is paying spousal support is noted somewhere so she can claim the deduction on her taxes.

If she feels her ex is under-reporting his income then she needs to gather proof of that and talk to her lawyer about seeing up another hearing.

Again, sounds like these are temporary orders, so she needs to get a good lawyer, stop representing herself, and get her ducks in a row for the final hearing.

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hanzblinx
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Re: spousal support [Re: gr8Dad]
      #696595 - 10/11/10 10:27 AM

[quote] Last year I grossed 55,400, while he grossed 34,600. (but on our taxes his account pretty much showed 2009 as a total loss for him, with deductions and expenses.) [/quote]

Fascinating because $550 is pretty close to what I'm paying in SS ($800)however my income is 100K+ and my ex never had an income. In fact I was making 150K then had to switch jobs to 110K and thank goodness she didn't leave me while I was at 150K.

Alimony is always evil, but the more women get stuck with it the better because we need women to get screwed too so they understand what they are doing to men from a 1st hand perspective.


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googledad
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Re: spousal support [Re: 1966Gal]
      #696596 - 10/11/10 10:28 AM

Again, sounds like these are temporary orders, so she needs to get a good lawyer, stop representing herself, and get her ducks in a row for the final hearing.

>>>>>>>> Unless she seeks a fault divorce that won't be for 2 years . Right now , a lawyer won't help unless she plans to appeal .

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1966Gal
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Re: spousal support [Re: googledad]
      #696618 - 10/11/10 11:06 AM

Unless she seeks a fault divorce that won't be for 2 years . Right now , a lawyer won't help unless she plans to appeal .

++++++++
2 years?? In my state, it's about 8 months between the time that Temporary orders are set and your date for then final hearing.

She needs to run the numbers and see if an appeal is worth it. I doubt it is...those numbers sound really in-line with their income, parenting time, etc....

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DedicatedDad
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Re: spousal support [Re: 1966Gal]
      #696623 - 10/11/10 11:14 AM

Sounds to me like she may be court ordered to pay APL since she is in PA. For those that don't know what APL is:

In Pennsylvania, after a PA divorce complaint has been filed, support awarded to the other spouse is called alimony pendente lite (APL). The amount payable under a PA APL order is based upon a percentage of the difference of after tax monthly incomes of the parties and after consideration of other support obligations. Pennsylvania family courts have held that the purpose of APL is to permit both spouses the financial ability to proceed in the divorce action. As such, the payor spouse cannot raise the entitlement defenses available in spousal support actions. In other words, even if the spouse seeking APL has committed adultery or has abandoned the marriage without a just cause, that spouse may be entitled to APL payments. "Pendente lite" is a Latin phrase meaning pending the litigation. As such, Pennsylvania APL orders generally last until the divorce decree is issued and equitable distribution has been finalized. For the spouse receiving APL, this fact often causes them to attempt to prolong the entry of the divorce decree and finalization of equitable distribution as long as possible. On the other hand, the spouse required to make the APL payments is generally motivated to finalize the divorce and equitable distribution issues as soon as possible to limit the duration of APL payments.


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Miranda
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Re: spousal support [Re: googledad]
      #696624 - 10/11/10 11:16 AM

Lawyers are always a good idea in divorce proceedings, what are you talking about?

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Edited by Miranda (10/11/10 11:16 AM)


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1966Gal
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Re: spousal support [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #696625 - 10/11/10 11:24 AM

Yes, that sounds exactly what it is...APL. The numbers sound ball-park correct. Probably would be a waste of time to appeal. She should spend her time/money preparing for the final hearing and try to prove her case that he is underreporting income.

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googledad
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Re: spousal support [Re: Miranda]
      #696637 - 10/11/10 01:44 PM

Lawyers are always a good idea in divorce proceedings, what are you talking about?

>>>>>>>>> There won't be any divorce proceedings unless SHE seeks a fault divorce which can be expensive and time consuming in PA . The only other alternatives is divorce by consent or nofault AFTER 2 years seperation . There are no " do-overs " after APL is set , she either appeals or pays till the divorce is final ( and perhaps after ) .

CS is inline with guidelines and his HIGHEST self employment income , $90k gross as a couple , 61.5% of the income is hers , 38.5% his , that gives $1877/month ( from the PA CS tables ) in presumed CS for 2 kids , his share is $722.65/month , the extra probably covers his share of insurance . The SS is 30% of the difference in their incomes , if anything CS is slightly " fudged " in her favor .

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1966Gal
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Re: spousal support [Re: googledad]
      #696670 - 10/11/10 03:13 PM

CS is inline with guidelines and his HIGHEST self employment income , $90k gross as a couple , 61.5% of the income is hers , 38.5% his , that gives $1877/month ( from the PA CS tables ) in presumed CS for 2 kids , his share is $722.65/month , the extra probably covers his share of insurance . The SS is 30% of the difference in their incomes , if anything CS is slightly " fudged " in her favor .

++++++

No, it's not nudged in her favor because you left out the $$$ she spends on covering their health insurance benefits. I ran the same numbers assuming about $200 a month. I have no idea what it really costs her.

If he's lying about his $36k income, THEN she has reason to appeal. If she can prove that he makes more than that, then she's paying too much. If she can't prove it, and he truly does make about $36k a year, then the numbers seem pretty in-line with what she can expect.

Her lawyer will know best.

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googledad
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Re: spousal support [Re: 1966Gal]
      #696673 - 10/11/10 03:37 PM

No, it's not nudged in her favor because you left out the $$$ she spends on covering their health insurance benefits. I ran the same numbers assuming about $200 a month. I have no idea what it really costs her.

>>>>>>> Don't use online calculators , they SUCK . She said $799/month , I came up with $722 , WITHOUT insurance , at $200/month he'd owe $65/month ( his share ) bringing the grand total to $787/month ( pretty close ) .

If he's lying about his $36k income, THEN she has reason to appeal. If she can prove that he makes more than that, then she's paying too much. If she can't prove it, and he truly does make about $36k a year, then the numbers seem pretty in-line with what she can expect.

>>>>>>> I'm unclear on what she's basing the $34,600 on , gross receipts from the business or gross income after a profit/loss .

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cole1020
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Re: spousal support [Re: googledad]
      #696726 - 10/11/10 07:09 PM

Thanks for all the input. The 34,600 is his gross receipts before business write-offs, and losses (real or imagined). My insurance costs for myself and the kids is 233.00/mos. I do have a lawyer, but honestly did not want to "waste" money using him for a child support hearing. And really does anyone think it would have made a difference? I guess I am lucky they apparently used his gross income instead of the net income after all his BS deductions. You can't change documented numbers on tax returns. (that is my theory anyway). I told my lawyer today I will sign divorce papers ASAP if he does not get one red cent of alimony in the settlement....is this possible? Does not one have to show a proven need to get support after the divorce (in PA anyway). I really hope a judge would see it as taking money from his children as to lessen child support payments, because that is really what it is. As far as women getting a turn at what men have been dealing with (as far as women usually being the one who gets spousal support), All people who go for spousal support are parasitic leeches. At one time I am sure this was a necessary provision, but not in this day and age...you are what you make of yourself! As far as this reasoning (for some) regarding child support, BOTH parents should be financially obligated to support their children!

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yregna
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Re: spousal support [Re: cole1020]
      #696731 - 10/11/10 07:20 PM

Quote " As far as women getting a turn at what men have been dealing with (as far as women usually being the one who gets spousal support), All people who go for spousal support are parasitic leeches. At one time I am sure this was a necessary provision, but not in this day and age...you are what you make of yourself!..."

Right on ! But why did you SO RECENTLY COME TO THIS NEW BELIEF SYSTEM ? Gee, has something changed in your life recently ?

We all know if you were dumping him and due the alimony, your whole POV would be different, eh ? Try being honest with yourself, eh ? Sometimes it helps...

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DedicatedDad
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Re: spousal support [Re: cole1020]
      #696732 - 10/11/10 07:20 PM

"All people who go for spousal support are parasitic leeches. At one time I am sure this was a necessary provision, but not in this day and age...you are what you make of yourself!"

I think if you did a survey, you would find yourself in the minority.


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googledad
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Re: spousal support [Re: cole1020]
      #696780 - 10/11/10 10:01 PM

Thanks for all the input. The 34,600 is his gross receipts before business write-offs, and losses (real or imagined).

>>>>>>> No need to prove he's fudging expenses then , if anything , it's unfair to him , I'm sure there are at least a few legitimate expenses that serve to lower his gross profit .

My insurance costs for myself and the kids is 233.00/mos.

>>>>>>>> Which with my earlier figure gives $798 and change for CS .

I guess I am lucky they apparently used his gross income instead of the net income after all his BS deductions.

>>>>>>> Yup .

You can't change documented numbers on tax returns. (that is my theory anyway).

>>>>>>>> What appears on a tax return has no bearing on what figures will be used to calculate CS , especially when the obligor is self-employed .

I told my lawyer today I will sign divorce papers ASAP if he does not get one red cent of alimony in the settlement....is this possible?

>>>>>>>> Anything is possible , it'll depend on if he'll agree or whether you seek a fault divorce .

Does not one have to show a proven need to get support after the divorce (in PA anyway).

>>>>>>>> There are 17 factors a judge will use to determine if support is appropriate , one is need .

I really hope a judge would see it as taking money from his children as to lessen child support payments, because that is really what it is.

>>>>>>> No , while both parties have an obligation to support their children , there is also an obligation to support your spouse ( when necessary ) . PS , I'm not a big fan either , especially after paying for 3 years .


Do yourself a favor and and make use of the mandatory mediation , a contentious divorce will be far more expensive than a few years spousal support .

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cole1020
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Re: spousal support [Re: yregna]
      #696816 - 10/12/10 05:16 AM

Yregna,
We mutually agreed to separate, my POV has not changed. So you then think it is ok that in order to reduce what he should be paying in child support he then (on the very same day) filed for spousal support?? And that 247.00/mos is enough to support two teenage boys?? Is it legal? Absolutely. Is it ethically or morally correct? I don't think so.


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cole1020
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Re: spousal support [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #696818 - 10/12/10 05:24 AM

[quote]"All people who go for spousal support are parasitic leeches. At one time I am sure this was a necessary provision, but not in this day and age...you are what you make of yourself!"

I think if you did a survey, you would find yourself in the minority. [/quote]
Again, in my case, (which I will concede are all different), we are not talking about one spouse making 150K and the other staying home for 18 years to take care of children. We are both adults who work at what we chose to become. I went to college (and graduated) from school before I met him. I just wish the law would take more into account, esp. when there are children involved.


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1966Gal
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Re: spousal support [Re: cole1020]
      #696837 - 10/12/10 09:14 AM

I disagree with you, Cole. After 18 years of marriage, spousal support is in order.

Based on the tax returns YOU SIGNED, you admitted that he made ZERO after business expenses. How is he supposed to support himself or his kids if he makes ZERO? If he didn't make zero, you shouldn't have signed tax returns saying that he did.

Spousal support is warranted in this case..because, by your own admission, he makes nothing.

Nurses work odd hours. How is it that you were able to build your career in nursing and have small children at home without his help?

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BeachBabeRN
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Re: spousal support [Re: 1966Gal]
      #696840 - 10/12/10 09:22 AM

While I have no real feelings about spousal support in this case, I AM a nurse and I make a darn good living -- I support my house **that I purchased myself** my Jeep **that I purchased myself** my youngest son **I do get child support but not all that much** and I manage to take family vacations, buy my own jewelry, groceries, utilities, etc.

How is it that you're unable to do the same?


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1966Gal
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Re: spousal support [Re: BeachBabeRN]
      #696843 - 10/12/10 09:31 AM

Who said that I am unable to do the same? I said that spousal support is warranted in an 18 year marriage where one spouse, by her own admission, makes nothing.

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hanzblinx
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Re: spousal support [Re: 1966Gal]
      #696884 - 10/12/10 10:46 AM

[quote]"All people who go for spousal support are parasitic leeches. [/quote]

You need to have a little pow wow with the entitled brats of your gender and explained what exactly they are doing to men on a daily basis. Honestly I think the more women get raped financially for alimony the better. Not because it's right, but because the day will come when women get so sick of it that it will finally become outlawed to pay adult child support (alimony) and women will finally be treated as equals. After all, that's what they "say" they want, until they see all the $$$ they can grab in a divorce.


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1966Gal
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Re: spousal support [Re: hanzblinx]
      #696908 - 10/12/10 11:24 AM

What they are doing to men on a daily basis??? From my perspective, they are putting their careers 2nd to their husbands careers - so that if/when a divorce happens, they are at a signifcant financial disadvantage. They are putting their children first.

At the time of divorce, the husbands sometimes have 10+ years more than the wife in the workforce, i.e. raises, promotions, etc... That's time/income that can never be made up.

Alimony helps make that sacrifice equitable. It enables a family to put the family/children first for a couple of years without only one spouse taking on all of the risk/sacrifice for doing so.

It enables a family to be able to operate as one unit instead of 2 seperate people looking out for their own best interests.

It puts the risk/sacrifice on both spouses shoulders...not just the spouse who made the career sacrifice.

Thank goodness the law and the courts see that even if you don't.

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spinnerdegrassi
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Re: spousal support [Re: 1966Gal]
      #696937 - 10/12/10 12:30 PM

What's funny is the presumption that every spouse who is collecting alimony was ever going to have a significant career anyways. I guess the career serving staff, who put aside their min wage jobs for the sacrifice of the family are supposed to be rewarded for that extra $1/hr they might have missed making during their time off the job.

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gr8Dad
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Re: spousal support [Re: 1966Gal]
      #696960 - 10/12/10 01:51 PM

"From my perspective, they are putting their careers 2nd to their husbands careers - so that if/when a divorce happens, they are at a signifcant financial disadvantage. They are putting their children first."

So why are you supporting alimony for the woman in the other thread that just got laid off of her 100K job? No kids involved, both worked the entire marriage, she GOT LAID OFF, nothing to do with her husband, or stbx husband, yet you ADVOCATE alimony in that case.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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hanzblinx
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Re: spousal support [Re: 1966Gal]
      #697056 - 10/12/10 04:20 PM

[quote]

Alimony helps make that sacrifice equitable. [/quote]

I wasn't aware that being too lazy to work and being fully cared for in every way was a sacrifice. If it is I will now make a public announcement that I am prepared to sacrifice my life to a well employed women who will pay for all my bills during and years after my marriage to her. She will have the extreme privilage of driving to work every day while busting her ass so I can stay home and play with my kids. She can buy our house and my car then hand it all over to me when I dump her for another woman.

Any takers? Obviously not because it's not a fair deal.

And quite frankly women who cheat on and divorce their husbands should be punished as criminals, not rewarded with free money. NO alimony for whoring wives. Period.


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1966Gal
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Re: spousal support [Re: hanzblinx]
      #697071 - 10/12/10 04:46 PM

And quite frankly women who cheat on and divorce their husbands should be punished as criminals, not rewarded with free money. NO alimony for whoring wives. Period.
++++++++++

Do you feel the same thing should apply to men? If they cheat, they go to jail and their wives get all of their assets?

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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.


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DedicatedDad
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Re: spousal support [Re: 1966Gal]
      #697074 - 10/12/10 04:52 PM

I think cheaters should first be delegated as the non-custodial parent by default whether man or woman. They've decided to end the family unit, and have clearly put their interests above the children. I think cheaters should also get a lesser portion of the assets.

Rather than "you play, you pay," it's currently set up where you can play and get rewarded for your actions.


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gr8Dad
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Re: spousal support [Re: 1966Gal]
      #697077 - 10/12/10 04:59 PM

Well, other than the "go to jail" part, the rest DOES happen when a man cheats.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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Miranda
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Re: spousal support [Re: gr8Dad]
      #697084 - 10/12/10 05:17 PM

[quote]Well, other than the "go to jail" part, the rest DOES happen when a man cheats. [/quote]


Really? What was that case of that one lady that ended up killing her lawyer husband and his new wife (other woman) because he ran her into the ground legally and took her kids?

They made a movie out of her story...kind of Clara Harris-esque. I am thinking Bonnie or Debbie or something like that. Her son was on Oprah last year or the year before.

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13.1...because I am only half crazy!

Edited by Miranda (10/12/10 05:21 PM)


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cole1020
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Re: spousal support [Re: hanzblinx]
      #697087 - 10/12/10 05:23 PM

[quote][quote]"All people who go for spousal support are parasitic leeches. [/quote]

You need to have a little pow wow with the entitled brats of your gender and explained what exactly they are doing to men on a daily basis. Honestly I think the more women get raped financially for alimony the better. Not because it's right, but because the day will come when women get so sick of it that it will finally become outlawed to pay adult child support (alimony) and women will finally be treated as equals. After all, that's what they "say" they want, until they see all the $$$ they can grab in a divorce. [/quote]

Why are you lecturing me? This is my first (and quite certainly my only) divorce. You cannot blame me for what other women have done...so my children deserve to be punished for equality sake? I am certain historically women have been the ones getting alimony, but they have also usually been the ones to get primary custody of the children. (I am not saying it was right!) That is not my case...I have primary custody and my children going to suffer because I will be supporting him. Not quite the same scenario.


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cole1020
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Re: spousal support [Re: 1966Gal]
      #697094 - 10/12/10 05:35 PM

[quote]I disagree with you, Cole. After 18 years of marriage, spousal support is in order.

Based on the tax returns YOU SIGNED, you admitted that he made ZERO after business expenses. How is he supposed to support himself or his kids if he makes ZERO? If he didn't make zero, you shouldn't have signed tax returns saying that he did.

Spousal support is warranted in this case..because, by your own admission, he makes nothing.

Nurses work odd hours. How is it that you were able to build your career in nursing and have small children at home without his help? [/quote]

I did not say he makes nothing, I said the tax returns make him look like he makes nothing. I am guessing you don't know too many self-employed people or their accountants. (And just for the record, his continued desire to be self-employed was one of the major reasons for the divorce). After I payed 12,350.00 in taxes myself last year I didn't question a supposedly reputable account on his numbers. Call me naive, but I will admit I don't go over every # on the 1040 form. So my stbx would be the reason I have a career??? He worked full time as well, so who do you think took care of the kids when he worked? You make it sound like he should be thought of as hired help.


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hanzblinx
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Re: spousal support [Re: 1966Gal]
      #697098 - 10/12/10 05:49 PM

[quote]
Do you feel the same thing should apply to men? If they cheat, they go to jail and their wives get all of their assets? [/quote]

Yes, sure, why not? There should be a penalty for the selfish destruction of a family, not a reward. Brilliant idea actually.


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gr8Dad
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Re: spousal support [Re: cole1020]
      #697101 - 10/12/10 05:56 PM

"I have primary custody and my children going to suffer because I will be supporting him"

Oh DROP THE DRAMA. He will still be sending you $247, with your income at 54,000, that gives you 57,000 a year to raise two kids on, and he will have them every other weekend and one night a week. He will have 31,000 to live and run the business on.

Guess what, 57,000 a year is a LOT more than quite a few people survive and raise kids on.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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hanzblinx
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Re: spousal support [Re: hanzblinx]
      #697104 - 10/12/10 05:58 PM

[quote] Why are you lecturing me? [/quote]

because you as other women sit quietly back while men get financially raped every day until it happens to you then you suddenly start to care.


[quote]This is my first (and quite certainly my only) divorce. You cannot blame me for what other women have done... [/quote]

nope, I can only blame you for being indifferent, and not celebrate your misfortune but celebrate the real fact that the more women get screwed the more likely it is for the laws to change because legislators will bend over backwards to protect a women.


[quote] so my children deserve to be punished for equality sake? [/quote]

honestly I have my doubts whether women spend CS on children at all. If they were held accountable in the least, or audited on spending, then you might have an argument.


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cole1020
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Re: spousal support [Re: hanzblinx]
      #697219 - 10/13/10 05:21 AM

because you as other women sit quietly back while men get financially raped every day until it happens to you then you suddenly start to care

nope, I can only blame you for being indifferent, and not celebrate your misfortune but celebrate the real fact that the more women get screwed the more likely it is for the laws to change because legislators will bend over backwards to protect a women.

Umm, how many causes (such as spousal support) have YOU really thought about until it happens to you?? So ten years ago I should have been picketing outside the legislature?? Come on, be realistic when you criticize



honestly I have my doubts whether women spend CS on children at all. If they were held accountable in the least, or audited on spending, then you might have an argument.

Where ever will I find something to spend that 247.00 this month on?



Oh DROP THE DRAMA. He will still be sending you $247, with your income at 54,000, that gives you 57,000 a year to raise two kids on, and he will have them every other weekend and one night a week. He will have 31,000 to live and run the business on.

So then for a father to only contribute 247.00 to care for his children is completely fine, I would never want to interfere with his standard of living. After all, how would he pay for that condo on the golf course or that 650.00/mos truck payment. It is a choice to have children, it should not be a choice as to whether or not you support them.


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1966Gal
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Re: spousal support [Re: cole1020]
      #697244 - 10/13/10 08:31 AM

So then for a father to only contribute 247.00 to care for his children is completely fine, I would never want to interfere with his standard of living. After all, how would he pay for that condo on the golf course or that 650.00/mos truck payment. It is a choice to have children, it should not be a choice as to whether or not you support them.
++++++

Cole, I'm warning you - as someone who has been there - that you are entering self-destruct mode and your divorce will get the better of you.

First of all, he is NOT only paying $247 to care for his kids. He is payin $247 + 500 = $750 a month to care for his kids.

Secondly, you're lucky to get that because you said that they based it off of his GROSS income, before all of his business expenses/deductions...so it could be a lot less.

Third, you are operating under TEMPORARY orders. So consider this your time to get your ducks in a row and make your case for not having to pay him alimony. I would start with arguing that his business is an indulgence that doesn't earn what he is capable of making. how much could he earn if he shut down his business and entered the job market? Ask that he be imputed on that figure instead of $36,000.

Lastly, you make $55,000 a year, right? Plus $247 x 12 = $2964. So your total income is $58,000 a year. He makes $36,000 less $2964, so his yearly income is $33,000. You have almost TWICE the income "on paper."

You say that he's lying about his true income. So that's where you start. You need to refocus and find that missing income!!

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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.


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cole1020
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Re: spousal support [Re: 1966Gal]
      #697419 - 10/13/10 02:55 PM

First of all, he is NOT only paying $247 to care for his kids. He is payin $247 + 500 = $750 a month to care for his kids.

Oh, I agreed it is self destructive, I am down 40lbs. in 7 months. My stbx is apparently planning on taking full advantage because he texted me that he is not signing the divorce papers for 2 years. Our attys. are talking, but if he wants to drag it out, I am guessing there is nothing I can do about it. I must ask where do you get 247 + 500???


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gr8Dad
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Re: spousal support [Re: cole1020]
      #697462 - 10/13/10 04:22 PM

He is paying $799 a month in child support FOR THE KIDS. YOU are paying him $500 a month in ALIMONY, that is for HIS contribution to the marriage.

While I do not agree with alimony in THIS case, I agree with the poster that said until WOMEN are forced to support a ex spouse, nothing will get done about it.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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Sherron
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Re: spousal support [Re: gr8Dad]
      #697479 - 10/13/10 04:47 PM

"While I do not agree with alimony in THIS case, I agree with the poster that said until WOMEN are forced to support a ex spouse, nothing will get done about it. "

It amazes me how helpless and powerless you think men are.


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gr8Dad
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Re: spousal support [Re: Sherron]
      #697485 - 10/13/10 04:54 PM

Not helpless or powerless, just politicians, always looking to help "women", so until enough women get together to put an end to alimony, it will continue.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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DedicatedDad
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Re: spousal support [Re: gr8Dad]
      #697525 - 10/13/10 07:08 PM

I do agree with one issue here. Women control where the family law system is at. There will not be change until women initiate it.

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