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boxpusher
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49K year, Alimony?
      #758355 - 08/02/11 06:34 PM

We have been married 15 years, with 3 children ages 13, 10, and 6. I have income of 49K and wife has been a SAHM most of the time. Right now she works 2 hours a week making about $100 a month. Future child support looks like it will be about $1200. We live in Utah.

Any estimates or suggestions on what would be fair alimony and how long? I think she doesnít deserve alimony, but I am willing to negotiate so we donít go to court. We agree about most things except spousal support.


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hanzblinx
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Re: 49K year, Alimony? [Re: boxpusher]
      #758413 - 08/03/11 10:20 AM

I was married in Utah divorced in CO. Some answers:

1. Alimony will reduce your CS payment, so calculate CS AFTER alimony. It's considered HER income and subtracted from your income.

2. She will be impuned minimum wage (40hrs/week) for CS calculations.

3. remarriage ends alimony, so if she's got prospects consider that. (my ex married within the 1st year).

4. Your worst case is likely 7.5 years. Shoot for 5 or less.

5. Worst case alimony is likely $800/mo. shoot for $400.

6. $1200 CS is too high for your income. recalculate. I pay $1200/mo with $107K income.

7. If she screwed around that doesn't matter in court, but you may "guilt" her during personal negotiations. "What! I catch you with another guy and you expect alimony???" for example.

Edited by hanzblinx (08/03/11 10:35 AM)


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Maury
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Re: 49K year, Alimony? [Re: hanzblinx]
      #758418 - 08/03/11 10:51 AM

LOL - better get that dictionary out. "Impuned?"

The word you are looking for is "imputed"

Moreover, an imputation of income depends on the facts. It can be imputed based on earning capacity or where earning capacity is unclear at some minimum threshhold. In Utah, under Statute 78B-12-203 - If a parent has no recent work history or a parent's occupation is unknown, income shall be imputed at least at the federal minimum wage for a 40-hour work week.

To impute a greater income, the judge in a judicial proceeding or the presiding officer in an administrative proceeding shall enter specific findings of fact as to the evidentiary basis for the imputation.

Income may not be imputed if any of the following conditions exist and the condition is not of a temporary nature:
(i) the reasonable costs of child care for the parents' minor children approach or equal the amount of income the custodial parent can earn;
(ii) a parent is physically or mentally unable to earn minimum wage;
(iii) a parent is engaged in career or occupational training to establish basic job skills; or
(iv) unusual emotional or physical needs of a child require the custodial parent's presence in the home.

Second, there is no reasonable basis to arrive at a worst case scenario of 7.5 years in duration. People who spout off that spousal support is half the term of the marriage are wrong, There is no such presumption. Many factors are considered besides the term of the marriage.

Similarly, coming up with a worst case scenario for the dollar amount is baseless without knowing much more about the financial picture, the age and health of the parties, parenting time and whether the children have any special needs requiring a parent to work less, and the earning capacity of each party.

Under Utah statutes, the court shall consider at least the following factors in determining the length of time and amount of alimony to be awarded: (1) the financial condition and needs of the recipient spouse; (2) the earning capacity or income potential; (3) the reasonability of the paying spouse to pay; (4) the duration of the marriage; (5) whether the recipient spouse has custody of minor children requiring support; (6) whether the recipient spouse worked in a business owned or operated by the payor spouse; and (7) whether the desiring spouse contributed to the earning capacity of the paying spouse. The court may consider the marital misconduct of the parties in determining alimony. (Utah Code - Sections: 30-3-3, 30-3-5)

PLEASE NOTE THAT UTAH STATUTES WILL TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION MARITAL MISCONDUCT. Although there is no information about misconduct in the post - again, your information is incorrect.

Finally, agreements can be reached that make spousal support non-modifiable, That means the amount or term can never be increased or decreased even if remarriage were to occur. Under Utah law, such an agreement must be in writing or made in open court as part of the record.

Utah Civil Code section 4811, subdivision (b), provides in part as follows: "The provisions of any agreement or order for the support of either party shall be subject to subsequent modification or revocation by court order, ... except to the extent that any written agreement, or, if there is no written agreement, any oral agreement entered into in open court between the parties, specifically provides to the contrary." fn. 5 (Italics added.)


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hanzblinx
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Re: 49K year, Alimony? [Re: Maury]
      #758421 - 08/03/11 11:19 AM

He asked for quote "estimates and suggestions" and he got them. If he wanted to read statutes he could have looked them up, but what he needs is a frame of reference with $$$ NUMBERS $$$. 85% of alimony amounts are settled out of court, therefore 85% of time realistic estimates are worth more than a list of statutes. I have gone through alimony negotiations. I am somewhat familiar with Utah alimony because my ex tried to establish residency there to file divorce out of state. I talked to real people about Utah alimony. People to really pay it in Utah.

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boxpusher
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Re: 49K year, Alimony? [Re: hanzblinx]
      #758477 - 08/03/11 04:44 PM

Thanks Hanzblinx and Maury for the info. When calculating CS I only put her current income at 1K. Just for more info about the situation - she is 36 and physically able to work.

Anybody else with any thoughts. There probably is no right or wrong answers. I just want to get a range of what to expect.


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Maury
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Re: 49K year, Alimony? [Re: boxpusher]
      #758479 - 08/03/11 05:24 PM

"He asked for quote "estimates and suggestions" and he got them."

Well, he got inaccurate, wild and baseless guesses. AND I would hate to see such a commentary "impuned." As a result, I impugned the inferences therein.


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hanzblinx
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Re: 49K year, Alimony? [Re: Maury]
      #758483 - 08/03/11 06:05 PM

[quote]"He asked for quote "estimates and suggestions" and he got them."

Well, he got inaccurate, wild and baseless guesses. AND I would hate to see such a commentary "impuned." As a result, I impugned the inferences therein. [/quote]

I already said this is based on people I know paying (or used to pay) alimony in Utah. I don't know how much better of a base you can get. And no the numbers I gave are not wild. If they are wild you should provide some evidence that they are, like some sample cases of people in Utah. Otherwise you are all talk.


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Maury
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Re: 49K year, Alimony? [Re: hanzblinx]
      #758485 - 08/03/11 06:19 PM

Sorry Hanz. Talking to a couple people regarding cases you know little about really provides very little base from which to make such sweeping assertions with regard to maximums related to amount and duration. That is particularly true when you have no idea what the particular facts of the current inquiry may be.

Your assertion is like saying you could provide authoritative instruction on heart surgery because you spoke to a couple guys who had it done.


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yregna
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Re: 49K year, Alimony? [Re: Maury]
      #758645 - 08/04/11 11:05 PM

You should spend some serious cash on a good lawyer, you will not regret it...
For sure put in the clause about her getting remarried, SAHM's almost always find another meal ticket quickly, its the nature of the woman.

Has she ever worked for income in her life ? Ignore Maury, he thinks since he has to pay for a woman's company, everyone should...

Fight her on the alimony issue with a good attorney, you will not regret spending the money, see my other post regarding finding an attorney your wife's attorney will hate.

If you roll over and pay her too much, you will live to regret it...After all, you've been paying her way almost all her life already, why pay after she's screwing some other guy ?

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"Anything free is worth what you pay for it..."
"Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get"


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boxpusher
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Re: 49K year, Alimony? [Re: yregna]
      #758717 - 08/05/11 09:03 PM

yregna,

I talked to a lawyer and he said with my income and paying child support that I might not pay alimony.

My argument against alimony is that it was her decision to stay home and be with our kids. I never insisted that she be a homemaker with no career. She wants to end our marriage, but I still have to support her?


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