Shanti
newbie
Reged: 10/29/11
Posts: 36
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I was married for 20 years in California. We have three children, I never worked outside the home and have no college degree or anything. My husband and his father own a business. They have the business sense before the marriage. My husband bought a yacht for almost 500k thru his business about 5 years ago. Due to the economy his business is underwater and his boat " sinking" too because we own more than its value.
He makes $47.000 a year. The business pay for our gas, car insurance, office supply, some restaurants bills and paid for our cars.
In his divorce agreement he is offering a lifetime alimony of $500. 50% custody plus child support based on the income tax. However the income tax doesn't reflect reality as the business pays for some expenses. He wants me to pay for half the yacht with the proceeds of selling our house. There is no mortgage in the house.
I want alimony and child support to be based on the 45k plus the $4000 a month that he pays on the Yacht.
Can a judge consider the yacht payments part of my husband’s salary?
Can my husband force me to pay for the yacht that even thou it is in his name the business pays for its mortgage and slip fees?
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Goodmom
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Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2006
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Since your stbx's business owns the yacht, you are not on the hook for any debt associated with it. If your stbx pushes the issue, then start asking for your share of the business assets. That will probably shut him up about the upside down yacht.
BTW, if you insist on the yacht payment being considered part of his income, then you are going to have a hard time saying that the business (which is pre-marital since it was started before the marriage)owns the yacht and any debt associated with it. As for the other household expenses that he is paying through the business, you need to create a spreadsheet and list what he is claiming as income. And then add all of the household expenses that are being paid through the business to the spreadsheet (do not add the yacht payment as your argument is that the business owns that since it was bought through the business)and then you will have his true income.
However; if an attorney tells you that the yacht is not part of the business assets, then you most definitely can make the argument for adding the $4K to his income. Because it IS income.
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Shanti
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Thanks for your response Goodmom.
To clarify, the yacht is in my stbx's name but he never made a payment with a personal check only the business pays for it.
The business is in debt too so I don't think he would care if I ask for the business assets. In the beginning of the negotiations he wanted me to pay 50% of the business debts, plus 50% of the boat. But then removed that from the agreement....perhaps an attorney told him that I don't have to pay the business debts.
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hanzblinx
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get a job. I know that's asking too much for a woman, but seriously, you are not some baby sucking on the nipple. You are a grown woman with a brain between the ears, we presume.
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spinnerdegrassi
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Well the alimony will be based off his income, the 47k. So you won't be getting much. You're not going to get credit off business expenses.
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Renny
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I responded on the other thread. I suggest you have an accountant look at the books and determine his true income -- and his potential for income as the economy recovers.
The yacht payments could be considered income and have nothing to do with the separate debt on the yacht or the debts of the separate company.
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
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Posts: 2006
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[quote]Well the alimony will be based off his income, the 47k. So you won't be getting much. You're not going to get credit off business expenses. [/quote]
Actually, if personal expenses are being paid through the business (which, according to what the OP wrote, is happening), then the $47K is not the income that will be used as that is not accurate. And if the yacht is considered marital property, then the $4K payment that is being made through the business WILL be added to the stbx's income. As it IS income to him.
Judges aren't stupid, they are aware of how easy it is for a self-employed person to disguise income as business expenses.
Which is why they will accept a reasonable estimate. Creating a spreadsheet of all known expenses being paid through the business and adding it to the income is a reasonable estimate. And HAS worked in getting closer to the actual income used in support calculations.
Where it becomes tricky is when modifications are done years down the road where that information isn't easily known by the ex of the self-employed person anymore.
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Miranda
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If the yacht will be considered marital property, according to your theory, then the 4,000 a month payment and upside down loan amount, is also hers. Not just the "income" portion of it.
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
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Posts: 2006
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[quote]If the yacht will be considered marital property, according to your theory, then the 4,000 a month payment and upside down loan amount, is also hers. Not just the "income" portion of it. [/quote]
Her stbx is the one who is wanting to treat the debt on the yacht as marital, but treat the payment of the loan as a business expense. He can't have it both ways. If it is a business asset, then the payment would not be added to his income. But if it is handled the way he wants it handled, then the payment is added to his income. Along with the other personal expenses that are being paid through the business.
BTW, even if it is considered marital, it is doubtful that the negative equity will be taken into consideraton unless they actually sell the yacht. Typically, the person who gets the asset gets the debt associated with it and any negative equity doesn't factor into anything at all unless the other party agrees to it.
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DedicatedDad
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For all we know, the business is a million dollars underwater, and even with the $4K/month yaht payment, the boat might be upside also. Accurate info is needed on all those facets to make any kind of assumptions.
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Goodmom
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[quote] For all we know, the business is a million dollars underwater, and even with the $4K/month yaht payment, the boat might be upside also. Accurate info is needed on all those facets to make any kind of assumptions. [/quote]
Yes, the business could be that upside down.
Doesn't change the fact that if the yacht is considered marital and the business is making the $4K payment, that is going to be considered income to the the OP's stbx, along with all of the other personal expenses that she has stated is being paid out of the business.
If the yacht is considered business property, then the $4K will not be added to the stbx's income, just the personal expenses being paid out of the business. And the negative equity in the yacht isn't a factor at all (which I don't think it will be whether it's considered a marital asset or not unless it is actually going to be sold).
And given that the business started before the marriage, any negative equity in the business is irrelevant when it comes to asset division as it is not a joint asset.
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Shanti
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Reged: 10/29/11
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This is what is written in the agreement that he wants me to sign:
Interests to be held jointly: The parties agree that the 2005 Motoryacht shall be held jointly by the parties until further court order or written agreement of the parties. The debt associated with the Motoryacht is more than the fair market value for he Motoryacht. Husband shall continue to make the payments on the Motoryacht and enjoy the exclusive use and possession of the Motoryacht and pay all slip fees associated with the Motoryacht, until such time that the debt can be renegotiated with the bank resulting in minimal payment from the parties joint and/or community resources. The court shall continue to retain jurisdiction over this asset and associated debt, which the parties are unable to resolve due to the amount that remains owing above and beyond the fair market value of the property.
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Renny
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I wouldn't sign it. The net effect is to make you jointly liable for the debt on the yacht. I would use the cause to make it clear that the yacht and associated debt are not marital property and that he will hold you harmless from any claim related to it in case he files for bankruptcy.
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Shanti
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Reged: 10/29/11
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I sent my stbx an e-mail asking how he pays for the boat. He answered:
"The company pays by electronic check for the boat and I use a company credit card to pay the slip fees."
And in response to the question about the ownership of the business. For all intentions and purposes he owns the business. However the founder of the business is his 82 years old father who works there full time and take home a check iqual to whatever my stbx takes home. He refuses to retire or to sign the business over to my husband. So I don't really know who own that business.
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DedicatedDad
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Whose name is the boat in?
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Shanti
newbie
Reged: 10/29/11
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It is on stbx's name
The bank wouldn't give a loan on the name of a business but only on the name of a person,
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DedicatedDad
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You've got so many complications here. What does your attorney say?
The business is upside down so there's negative value.
The boat is upside down so there's negative value.
The $4K payment comes from a business that your husband is probably only 1/2 owner to.
The boat is in his name rather than the business.
Lots of complications.....I've found that logic often doesn't apply in family law....let us know what your attorney says....make sure he/she has all the above facts. Any one of them could make a tremendous difference in the outcome.
One question though....how does one get a $500,000 loan on a $47K salary, since you said the business isn't actually part of the deal? Are there other assets used as collateral?
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Shanti
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He demonstrate to the bank that the business would pay for the boat and the business was making enough money to do that. So even know the boat is on his name the bank loaned the money because the business could afford it.
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Shanti
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To clarify I little more he claims that the Yacht is a second office in downtown San Diego. In case the IRS goes after him he has this explanation for the reason the business pays for the boat.
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Goodmom
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[quote]To clarify I little more he claims that the Yacht is a second office in downtown San Diego. In case the IRS goes after him he has this explanation for the reason the business pays for the boat. [/quote]
Then he can't claim the debt is a marital debt. And since that is the case, you can't add the $4K a month to his income. Just the other personal expenses that the business is paying.
If you don't have an attorney, you need one. Your stbx is trying to pull a fast one.
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Goodmom
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[quote]He demonstrate to the bank that the business would pay for the boat and the business was making enough money to do that. So even know the boat is on his name the bank loaned the money because the business could afford it. [/quote]
Do you have the paperwork to prove that?
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Shanti
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Reged: 10/29/11
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Goodmom,
No I don't have the paper work.
You mentioned that if the business owns the yacht I wouldn't be able to ask that the 4k be considered income. Would you please explain that:
Remember the company pays for the the mortgage and slip fee of the boat. If there was no yacht he would have a larger income? Would this argument hold water in court? It is actually true when the company was making good money his salary was much better. Then he bought the boat (and the economy started going downhill) and his salary decrease to a point where we are just two thousands dollars above the poverty line. Wouldn't a judge question that the breadwinner doesn't have money to have the kids in any extra school activity but have the money to spend in a "toy" ?
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Goodmom
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Because paying for mortgages and slip fees for a business asset is a legitimate business expense.
If it was a personal asset, and since he is claiming that it is a second office for the business it is not, then the business paying for a personal asset of one of its employees (even if the employee is a co-owner) is considered income.
As I stated before, create a spreadsheet and list all of the personal expenses that are being paid through the business. Those are considered income and will be added to what he claims as income.
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spinnerdegrassi
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[quote]Goodmom,
Remember the company pays for the the mortgage and slip fee of the boat. If there was no yacht he would have a larger income? Would this argument hold water in court? It is actually true when the company was making good money his salary was much better. Then he bought the boat (and the economy started going downhill) and his salary decrease to a point where we are just two thousands dollars above the poverty line. Wouldn't a judge question that the breadwinner doesn't have money to have the kids in any extra school activity but have the money to spend in a "toy" ? [/quote]
If he wasn't paying the mortgage the "business" would have more $$$, it doesn't necessarily mean he would have more income. How are you going to convince a judge that all 4k would be converted into salary and not reinvested into the business?
Plus the poverty line for a family of 5 isn't anywhere near 47k, it's closer to 26k.
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Shanti
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You are right. I just checked the poverty line and is what you are saying.
The way he and his father do the finances of the business is whatever is the profit they split it in half. They do not reinvest in the business. With that his biweekly payments vary a lot. So if he didn't have the boat he would have a higher income.
Also when his father dies he will have a higher income, because then even thou he will need to hire a worker to do his father's job he will no longer have a business partner. That is why I would like to know if the judge can grant me a percentage of his salary instead of a fix amount. For now he is offering me $500,00 a month alimony.
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DedicatedDad
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You mentioned in another post that your STBX's father actually is 100% owner of the business legally. Is that true?
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Shanti
newbie
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My stbx feels he own the business, but his father never signed the business over to him. His father never retired either still works there full time.
So it is confusing to me if he owns or not. A bankruptcy attorney told him if he was to walk away from the business they would go after his father not him.
So it is not clear who own the business. My stbx walks on eggshell with his father. I believe he is waiting his father to die so he can own the business.
Edited by Shanti (10/30/11 10:26 PM)
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spinnerdegrassi
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You can't project hypotheticals like his father dying and him getting a larger % of the business, because things can change on a daily basis. Plus business profit is not the same thing as income, as that can be re-allocated annually and you can redirect it. If they decided his father was going to get all the profit, how are you going to prevent it?
When my father ran his business, he took 50k a year in salary. The business turned a few hundred k a year in profit. His then wife, as they were divorcing wanted a cut of that profit. Problem was, my father was only on "paper" a 25% owner, as my sisters and I owned the rest. We decided where the profit went. It always went to him, until she decided to make a play for it, and we told her that she would never see a dime of it, because we would just allocate it going forward to ourselves, and then backdoor it to him and there wasn't a thing she could do to stop us.
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Shanti
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The only reason I hypothetical assume he is going to make more is that he has been waiting his father to die. First he was waiting his father do retire and it never happened now he has been sticking with this job in the hopes of owing the business. During the marriage I have asked him to part from his father's business and he always refused. He could make more in another company. The tricky thing is that his father has a second wife and my stbx and her don't speak. Anyway that is the reason I mention him making more in the future.
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spinnerdegrassi
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The problem is, maybe the father leaves the business to the wife? Maybe he splits it? If the father owns the business, you won't even get access to the books since he'll be under no obligation to present them, your ex is just an employee.
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Shanti
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I think if his father wanted to leave the business to him he would have signed the business over to stbx already. I think my stbx will have a huge surprise when they read the will and find out that he left to his wife...perhaps partially as she is an older lady and wouldn't be able to work there. Anyway the way I was brought up to this situation is that in the first divorce agreement my stbx stated the business debts as 200k and that I would have to pay 50% of it plus 50% of the boat. That is when I questioned to see a paper saying that the business was actually his. He truly felt the business is his. Then I pressed him to ask his father to sign the business over to him but he decided to remove that from the agreement as he is scared to death to ask his father for the business.
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spinnerdegrassi
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Most likely you won't have any business debts allocated to you since it's not a marital asset. I don't see how though you're going to get alimony allocated beyond his fixed salary, which pretty much means you better start looking for a FT job, since what he'll end up paying probably won't be much more than what he's offering. If the business is under his father's name, you won't even get access to anything other than the his salary.
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Shanti
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yep...I think that is the case. I think I'll probably get a little more than $500,00 but not much. I intend to let the judge know that the business have been paying for my gas for 20 years to see if he adds that to the alimony. And I'll also give to the judge the spreadsheet of all that the business has been paying to see if he'll consider that too.
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Avaya
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[quote]Actually, if personal expenses are being paid through the business,... $4K payment that is being made through the business WILL be added to the stbx's income. As it IS income to him. [/quote]
Maybe, maybe not. If they're recording the business activity correctly, the personal payments made from business accounts is netted with the partner's equity (or draw account, depending on what kind of business it is, partnership, corporation, etc) And if he had a great deal of equity in the business prior to the marriage (and it's hard for me to say that he didn't since they have a half mil yacht - how do they justify that purchase? - and his salary is 47k) so an argument could be made that he's paying for living expenses on what is equivalent to premarital savings.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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Avaya
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If this is the case, the business does NOT own the yacht; he does. The business isn't making the payments; he is making the payments through the business, big difference.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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Avaya
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The company writing a check for the boat payment isn't the same as the company paying the boat payment.
If the business owns the boat, it's in the business name, it's an asset on the business books and there is a liability on the business books that is decreased as payments are made. The business deducts the interest expense and the slip fees on the boat as well as maintenance. This would not be a marital asset.
If HE owns the boat, it is not an asset on the company books, and the checks the business writes for the boat expenses are not expensed to the business, they are coded to/netted against his equity in the company. This would be marital property.
If the company secured the loan for the boat, it's no wonder it's failing. Sounds likely that their books are a MESS and you may need a forensic accountant to figure out what his true income is. Does the boat have anything to do with the business at all?
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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DedicatedDad
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The boat is upside down. It has negative value.
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Avaya
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[quote]The boat is upside down. It has negative value. [/quote]
Irrelevant.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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elliesmom
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Actually its not irrelevant. The 4k his business pays on the note is certainly income. But she owes half the debt on the yacht. This is CA. My understanding is that there is no such thing as premarital assets there without a prenup. Community property state to the max.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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Shanti
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[quote]If this is the case, the business does NOT own the yacht; he does. The business isn't making the payments; he is making the payments through the business, big difference. [/quote]
So if he owns the boat shouldn't I get the alimony and child support based on $47k plus $4k a month that he spends on the boat?
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gr8Dad
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"So if he owns the boat shouldn't I get the alimony and child support based on $47k plus $4k a month that he spends on the boat?"
Yes, but the DEBT owed on the boat would also be half yours as well.
It APPEARS (and I could be wrong) that you want the UP SIDE of the boat (as income/asset), but none of the DOWN SIDE (debt and maintenence).
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Avaya
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[quote]Actually its not irrelevant. The 4k his business pays on the note is certainly income. [/quote]
IF it's determined that HE owns the boat rather than it being a business asset, you would be correct.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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Avaya
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[quote]So if he owns the boat shouldn't I get the alimony and child support based on $47k plus $4k a month that he spends on the boat? [/quote]
Yes, IF he owns the boat, AND if the payments aren't being made from previously built up premarital equity in the business IF the state doesn't consider that premarital equity to now be marital property. You are not going to be able to sort this out without an attorney.
Since he wants exclusive access (he's tipping his hand here, asking for that because that implies it's a marital asset rather than a business asset because if it was a business asset, you wouldn't have any rights to use it anyway) you might be able to negotiate some leverage against the debt in order to award him that exclusive access. "Sure, you can have the boat, exclusive assess to the boat and all debt and expenses associated with the boat."
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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Shanti
newbie
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Someone said here that the negative equity will not be taken into consideration unless he sells the boat.
Right now his plan is to continue paying for the boat, have the exclusive use of it and one day when it is sold we share the debt. Because you can never make a profit from a boat anyway, so it is not like one day he sells the boat and split the profit with me.
So if that is his plan shouldn't I be at least getting the alimony based on the 4k?
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Avaya
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[quote]So if that is his plan shouldn't I be at least getting the alimony based on the 4k? [/quote]
It doesn't MATTER what his plan is. What matters is who is the legal owner of the boat and is the payment coming from his built up equity OR is it expensed to the business.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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elliesmom
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If you take into account the 4k paid for the yacht - he will also get credit for YOUR half of the debt (2k/month) in some fashion. The negative equity WILL count whether he sells or not in the separation of assets. For example - the yacht is worth -10k, your home has 100k in equity. He takes the yacht, and gets 55k on the house and you get 45k on the house. Or the loss is equalized in some other way, retirement accounts etc.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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Shanti
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Ok. I founded out that I never signed for the boat loan and the boat is only on his name but that doesn't matter as in California it is community property. He feels bad about asking me to pay for the debt on the boat and was surprised when I told him that I can ask the child support and alimony on the 4k he spends on it.
So I am asking you this: I came up with a proposal please give me your opinion if it is fair, if it is ridiculous, if you as a man would accept this proposal e.t.c I am in the middle of a divorce so my mind is clured and I truly don't know if I am being reasonable. Take in account when you read the proposal that we don't have house mortgage and our house is worth about $575,000,00. His retirement about $150,000,00 and that I don't mention his yacht on the proposal.
This is the proposal:
I keep the house, we pay off the personal debts with the retirement and the remaining I take out my half.
With this money I move out as soon as I get the retirement money as it is my understanding that I can petition the money if I prove financial hardship. I still need the business to continuing paying the gas as 80% of my driving is kids related and we can come up with a time cap on that.
With that I relinquish my rights to the alimony, you will have extra money as you won’t have the credit cards debts.
You can have the custody of the kids and that will save you money on child support and you can write off the 3 kids on income taxes. I would negotiate with you a generous visitation and I can pick up the kids after school and stay with them and that will save you $250 a week in ISS.
You can stay in the house and pay me rent.
The advantages of this proposal is that I will not have to go thru paper trail to get my inheritage money back, I will not have to hire a CPA to go over the business' books or anything related to the business.
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spinnerdegrassi
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If I were him, I'd never take it. Here's why. Alimony could be modifiable. There's no way if I were him, would i give up almost 300k in assets with house value off the top. Plus taking out Retirement money makes no sense since you'll pay tax and penalty on top of it. Sell the house and each take your cut.
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Shanti
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I don't think alimony would be modifiable if I am taking it as credit in the house. I am sure that part can be arranged as I can sigh a document relinquishing my rights.
The 300k in assets of the house is a trick one because of the 200k inheritage that I got a few years ago. My inheritage helped to pay off the house. But he can easily ask for the paper trail and that would be hard for me as the money came from another country. He doesn't deny I got the money but he could make things difficult for me and ask for paper trail.
I heard if you can prove financial hardship during divorce you can take money out of retirement.
Edited by Shanti (11/02/11 02:57 PM)
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elliesmom
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I would not take it if I were him. I mean - he can get you to owe 1/2 the debt on the yacht, take 1/2 the equity on the house, 1/2 the retirement accounts, and only 1/2 of the other debt. He only earns MAYBE 100k a year. You aren't going to get much in alimony really on that income. CS comes out first - after that even if they seek to equalize incomes you won't be getting much each month.
Mostly as an offer it is simply too complicated. Ask that the house be sold, you take the proceeds, and waive all claim to alimony. He takes the yacht. Renting, blah, him still paying the gas, that is just nonsensical. The whole point of divorce is to NOT deal with the person anymore. I would never agree to something like that.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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Shanti
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elliesmom, you said " ask that the house be sold, you take the proceeds and waive all claim to alimony" . Did I understand you correct, I ask for the house in exchange for the alimony? I totally go for that. Is that what you meant?
The only reason I said I would rent the house to him is that I have no interest in selling the house in the current market and would be less change for the kids to stay in the house. But forget about all these details. I'd love to have the house in exchange for the alimony.
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DedicatedDad
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"Ok. I founded out that I never signed for the boat loan and the boat is only on his name but that doesn't matter as in California it is community property. He feels bad about asking me to pay for the debt on the boat and was surprised when I told him that I can ask the child support and alimony on the 4k he spends on it."
He doesn't spend a nickel on it. His father's business uses it and pays for it.
"Take in account when you read the proposal that we don't have house mortgage and our house is worth about $575,000,00. His retirement about $150,000,00 and that I don't mention his yacht on the proposal.
If you are going to attempt include the $4K for the boat, then you must also include the loan. Since it has negative equity (you never have stated how much), that comes off the value of the house.
"I keep the house, we pay off the personal debts with the retirement and the remaining I take out my half.
With this money I move out as soon as I get the retirement money as it is my understanding that I can petition the money if I prove financial hardship. I still need the business to continuing paying the gas as 80% of my driving is kids related and we can come up with a time cap on that.
With that I relinquish my rights to the alimony, you will have extra money as you won’t have the credit cards debts."
Let me make sure I understand you correctly. You want the $575K house, and want his retirement cashed out to pay off other debts.
He then gets nothing in cash and an upside down boat?
"You can have the custody of the kids and that will save you money on child support and you can write off the 3 kids on income taxes. I would negotiate with you a generous visitation and I can pick up the kids after school and stay with them and that will save you $250 a week in ISS."
That's confusing. You said he would get custody, but you would give him generous visitation.
If he has custody, then you get the visitation time. He's the primary parent.
"You can stay in the house and pay me rent."
So you keep the $575K home, he gets nothing...but he stays in it and pays you rent?
The advantages of this proposal is that I will not have to go thru paper trail to get my inheritage money back, I will not have to hire a CPA to go over the business' books or anything related to the business.
What business? It's his father's. You won't be touching any of those books.
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DedicatedDad
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Reged: 09/05/04
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Here's what I propose if I were him.
The house gets sold. You get the first $200,000. The remaining $375,000 is split 50/50. That's $387,500 for you. $187,500 for him.
Retirement is split 50/50. I'd also not cash it out at this time, but that's up to you, otherwise you face penalties and taxes.
Child support will be by guideline, based on $47K/year if you have custody. Alimony will be negated with your assets.
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Shanti
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I have a huge problem with selling the house now.
The retirement and the remaining of the house are coming to about the same so i could pay him off the difference somehow.
What I want is the house. I don't care to live in it but I want to keep it from being sold.
I think it is a good compromise that he would live there. Even thou I would be doing this for my kids not for him.
What do you mean by " Alimony will be negated with your assets"?
Edited by Shanti (11/02/11 05:28 PM)
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Renny
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I like some of it as a proposal. You don't mention the yacht and the yacht debt. He takes that?
So you take the house, and basically no debt. No alimony And you give him custody of the kids. (does he want that?)
In effect you are getting lump sum alimony in the form of the house and no debt. Forget about details like gas, him renting, etc. Are you sure you sure about the custody part?
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DedicatedDad
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With you having over twice the assets he has there might not be any alimony. One of the reasons for alimony is to even things out a bit...in your case alimony would only widen the gap.
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Shanti
newbie
Reged: 10/29/11
Posts: 36
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Yes my proposal doesn't mention the yacht because in my proposal he would keep it. The yacht and its debt. He doesn't want to sell it, he loves that yacht and he wouldn't find a buyer for it right now. I hate that yacht, he bought it despite me going crazy that I didn't want the yacht and it was a major problem in our marriage and it actually damaged his relationship with his father.
In relation to the alimony ok, I understand what you mean about not need for it. It boils down to what I want. He gives me his part on the house in exchange for the alimony.
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Renny
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Reged: 09/24/11
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Sounds like a decent proposal. You take the house free and clear, he takes the yacht and its debt, plus all the other debts. You make no claim on his pension. Make sure you are fully released and held harmless from all the debts.
The boat is a folly he can't afford and will have to sell. You too may have to sell the house. In making the proposal I would point out that he has income potential and you have much less.
Hope it works out.
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Avaya
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Loc: Arkansas
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[quote]... and our house is worth about $575,000,00. His retirement about $150,000,00 ...[/quote]
How does a family with 47k income have a half million dollar home?????
[quote] I still need the business to continuing paying the gas as 80% of my driving is kids related [/quote]
Personal expenses are not BUSINESS related and cannot be expensed by the business. I would not ask for this to happen because it's not legitimate and a judge would never award it so it would be careless for either of you to accept it. AND if the business is his father's, he can't agree to pay it through the business. IF they are properly recording his/your personal expenses that the business is 'paying' then in effect HE is still paying them, the business is just handling the transactions. All of those expenses are exactly like the boat - income to him. And if he has custody of the kids, your transporting the kids is minimized.
[quote]With that I relinquish my rights to the alimony, [/quote]
Some expenses that he pays on your behalf are still considered alimony - tax deductible to him and taxable to you. Alimony is not strictly 'he gives you cash'.
[quote]You can have the custody of the kids [/quote]
You're just giving him custody of the kids? No desire for 50/50?
[quote]You can stay in the house and pay me rent.[/quote]
Yes, this is getting more bizarre. I'd tell you that you are outside of your crazy little mind if you brought this to me.
[quote]The advantages of this proposal is that I will not have to go thru paper trail to get my inheritage money back, I will not have to hire a CPA to go over the business' books or anything related to the business. [/quote]
I assume you mean inheritance. This is too convoluted - you NEED a CPA AND an attorney. There is no way to settle his fairly without both, imo.
Edited by Avaya (11/03/11 08:33 AM)
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DedicatedDad
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I have to wonder if the house wasn't used as collateral on the boat....I doubt it's easy to get a $500,000 loan nowadays with a $47K salary.
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yregna
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Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 1265
Loc: Oregon
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Shanti,
After reading all of your posts, you absolutely are nothing but a gold digger, which is very sad. You have zero value as a human being, only when you spread your crack.
There are women out there who are human beings, you are not one of them, jes' sayin'...
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"Anything free is worth what you pay for it..."
"Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get"
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Shanti
newbie
Reged: 10/29/11
Posts: 36
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To answer about the house being half million dollars in a 47k. The house cost $319 when we bought it in 1999. I put in 200k from a money I got when my father passed away. I never knew that a few years later I'd be getting a divorce. Had I known it I'd have got an apartment as a separate property for me. I did consider using part of the money for education but I had to stay home with the kids because he worked 52 hours a week and wouldn't budge of staying with the kids while I pursued an education. He did say over and over again during our marriage that the reason we didn't have a mortgage was because of me. We haven't had a mortgage sense 2007. Once you have a mindset that having a mortgage is the norm you just have to have one, so he went and got a yacht that he knew he couldn't afford but thought the business could...but then came the bad economy.
The reason I want the house so bad is that I am in a foreign country with not a single family member here. So I need it as a security. Somehow he has father, mother, siblings, business that he has worked for 30 years and a professional license.
I can not return to my country where I have family because now I have my children here.
In relation to the gas. The only reason I consider asking is that the business has always paid for the gas (gas card) for my gas, stbx's gas, his father's gas, his stbx's father's gas e.t.c and I know he doesn't keep track of anything the business books are a mess.
Yregna, I am not a gold digger I just made the wrong choice to stay home with the kids instead of getting an education. I am so grounded that I used my inheritance to pay a house. He is the gold digger (towards his business) who gets a yacht and have the business pay for it, who gave my car as a down payment in a brand new luxurious BMW ( i think it cost over 80k) and gave me his old car to use. Which is the car I use to this day...leaking oil and all. Btw even the cars are in the name of the business...if we are talking about gold diggers.
By keeping the house I am protecting my children from a financial irresponsible father.
Edited by Shanti (11/03/11 02:48 PM)
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elliesmom
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You really need an attorney. I am not sure what California law says about inheritance money - in some states it is protected, others not so much. But I can tell you the judge will order the house sold in some form. Either he will give it to one of you and order you to pay (get a mortgage or whatever) the other person their equity OR order it sold and split the profits. What you want is not realistic. Given his income I doubt he could GET a mortgage to pay out your equity. And you have zero income. So most likely selling the house is a given. What percentage of the equity you/he get will depend on other factors. That is why - if I were him - I wouldn't take that deal.
If I were going to truly offer a deal (before I paid a lawyer) it would have to actually BE a deal. Like you get the house (you can rent it out, sell it, whatever you want) he gets the yacht and its debt, he gets the retirement accounts, he gets the other marital debt (unless it is clearly yours post separation), CS set by the guidelines of his income at 47k and based on who has actual custody, split the tax deductions each year and alternate years when their is an odd number, and you waive any claim to alimony.
Everything simple, very little cashing out splitting etc. makes it more appealing to someone.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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Renny
addict
Reged: 09/24/11
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That's a decent proposal ellismom. Why not try it, Shanti?
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Shanti
newbie
Reged: 10/29/11
Posts: 36
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I just sent him the proposal. Will see if he will take, reject or suggest some changes. The credit card debts that I mention (our only debts per se) are of about 20k. The other reason for my strange suggestion on custody that I don’t mention in my proposal is that I doubt I’ll be able to afford more than a one bedroom apartment and I know my kids will not want to go with me when they have all their stuff already in place in this four bedroom house.
The following is what I sent:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
This is my proposal:
I keep the ownership of the house, and relinquish my rights to alimony.
We pay off the personal debts with the retirement and you keep the rest.
That is of course if we would qualify to petition the money from the 401 k based on financial hardship..
In my proposal I move out and you stay home with the kids. We have three options here. We do a 80 x 30 custody or 50 x 50 custody or you take full custody of the kids and I get visitation. You may think these options are strange. My only reason is that it would will free you up from child support payments and you can write off the 3 kids on the exemptions for taxes purposes. Not having to pay alimony, child support or credit card debts should free you up of some money.
When you are better financially and I move to a permanent address we can rearrange the custody.
If you opt for full custody I would negotiate with you a generous visitation plan and I would pick up Stephanie from school. This way I have time with her and you don’t have to spend money on child care.
The advantages of this proposal is that I will not have to go thru paper trail to get my inheritance money back, I will not have to hire a CPA to go over your books or anything related to your business.
Pretty much everything the same minus the wife. You continue to live in the house, you keep the kids, you continue to have the boat on the weekends, you will not have to be spending money with credit card debts, alimony, day care or child support. Although I would still collect rent for the house. Hopefully I’ll find work soon and I’ll try to schedule whatever work I find in a way so I’d be able to pick up Stephanie from school and be with her until you can pick her up after your work.
Again I have no intention to sell the house. I think that my suggestions would be the least disterruptive for you and the kids. I know the business is really bad and you can’t see the light in the end of the tunnel but you have a professional license you can reconstruct your life.
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DedicatedDad
veteran
Reged: 09/05/04
Posts: 1318
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Why do you want a divorce so badly?
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Avaya
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 9815
Loc: Arkansas
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There are three children but you're only going to pick one up from school and spend time with her?
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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Shanti
newbie
Reged: 10/29/11
Posts: 36
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The other two drive to and from school. That is all I meant. I didn't mean to imply I wouldn't spend time with them.
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javajunkiee
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Reged: 06/01/08
Posts: 3153
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This--> "When you are better financially and I move to a permanent address we can rearrange the custody. "
You need to really think this through. While I see your logic in having the kids stay put and him taking the house, just because you may agree now to 'rearrange' the custody later, doesn't mean it will happen. If he changes his mind you will have an uphill battle trying to regain custody. Check out the Custody and Visitation board on this site and you'll find any number of threads where the mother couldn't get custody after a status quo was set.
Example: You get settled and say "I'm ready to take the kids now" and he says No. You have to hire a lawyer and he hires one. His lawyer says He is the stable parent, He has the house, He has been the primary caregiver all this time. All of which is true. You will be painted as being a transient parent if you move more than once, every doctor appt you miss because of work will make you 'uninvolved'. If you're not contributing to the cost of raising the kids (whether there's an order to or not) he could call you a deadbeat. You may think he wouldn't do this, and I'd have to say if thats what you think, fine. But his daddy owns a business - would grandpa subsidize his legal costs if it came down to it? Would your stbx allow himself to be led by daddy because he didn't want to be disinherited???
Furthermore, IF the kids are stable and well-adjusted by that point why would you want to move them? A judge will wonder that too.
Again - ck the other threads on the Custody board and go back a couple of years. Heck post a thread there and ASK if anyone had issues like this. Don't make this decision without doing a worse case scenario evaluation.
I say ask for joint and set the schedule however is necessary. You're going to paint yourself into a corner if you agree to be the NCP.
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Marriage doesn't come with a money-back guarantee.
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Shanti
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javajunkiee, thank you for your post. I will check the Custody and Visitation board to learn more about it but your post was enough for me. I won't do it.
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Renny
addict
Reged: 09/24/11
Posts: 479
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There are problems with having him stay in the house ith the kids and pay rent too. We have yet to hear his response, but if he starts tinkering with the proposal I would agree to half the equity in the house, shanti stay in the house with kids until it sells, joint physical custody with shanti as cp, husband takes all the debt and keeps the pension, and pays cs.
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javajunkiee
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/08
Posts: 3153
Loc: SC
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Shanti - I would shoot for elliesmom's proposal, but accept Renny's at a bare minimum. If he balks at you staying in the house until it sells because of this economy, I would include language in the order that specifically outlines what steps you two will take in the event the house doesn't sell for a prolonged period.
Example: House doesn't sell by x# mos after divorce agreement price is dropped by x$. House still doesn't sell by x# mos, price is dropped by an addl x$. House doesn't sell by an addl x# mos both parties agree to take action that includes a)A, b)B and c)C. Shanti agrees to keep home in clean and presentable condition for prospective buyers and notify Huband of needed repairs within 48 hours. Cost of repairs to be paid by H in advance of sale and 1/2 cost to be deducted from an equity paid to Shanti. Purchase offers presented within 5% of asking price shall be accepted, offers exceeding a 5% differential will be countered by at least half the amount of the difference added to the buyers offer. (ie you list at 450k, offer is for 350k for a diff of 100k, you and H counter with a min of 400k.)
The reason I put this in here, and the numbers are totally hypothetical, is because the sale of a home can throw a huge wrench into a divorce. Usually at least one person is stuck having their name on a house when they don't want it there, and that leaves them at the mercy of their X to affect their credit. Other things like if the house is not kept in good repair and presentable that also can aggravate attempts to sell, or say one spouse finds an offer acceptable that another spouse doesn't for whatever reason, can also cause issues.
However you word it is up to you, what you're willing to deal with or wait on is between you and him. Think about it beforehand though and spell.it.out. Vaguely worded orders can cause you (and him) a LOT of grief down the road.
Always be specific. Always ask for at least a minimum of what you will accept. That'll give you a starting point to negotiate from.
Edited by javajunkiee (11/05/11 02:35 PM)
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Debi
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My only reason is that it would will free you up from child support payments and you can write off the 3 kids on the exemptions for taxes purposes. Not having to pay alimony, child support or credit card debts should free you up of some money.
You realize you'll have to pay CS if he has custody, right?
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When we were together, you said you'd die for me. Now, I think it's time you kept your promise.
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DedicatedDad
veteran
Reged: 09/05/04
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She doesn't work. CS in my state would be the minimum, which in my state is $50/month.
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Shanti
newbie
Reged: 10/29/11
Posts: 36
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Ok. I got his response. I need your advice on what to do. When you read his response keep in mind that his first agreement asked me to pay for half the business debts (150k) and half the boat (200k). I was advised to ask to see the document proving that it was indeed his business, he couldn't provide one so he removed the business debts from the agreement. I am point this out so you can read with a grain of salt the fairness that he is saying he will be. Also keep in mind that I filled in May and he has refused to leave the house, so I continue to cook for him, iron his clothes e.t.c
He won't move out and I don't have a dime to move out.
Here his response:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I am not prepared to relinquish my entire half of the ownership of the house. I am however willing to negotiate the equitable distribution of the house.
Did you consult with an attorney in regards to your proposal? The reason I ask is I am not sure about relinquishing alimony or child support will fly with the judge and I want to make sure what we give him, he will accept. Your proposal didn't mention how much you expected to receive in rent for the house. If it's something I can't afford, then it wouldn't work anyway. You also have to consider that money you receive from rent you will have to pay tax on as income. I am pretty sure we are not going to be able to withdraw money from the retirement fund without paying a penalty and either way we will have to pay income tax on it.
I think it's important to have 50/50 custody, especially for Stephanie. We will have to consider ESS anyway if you get a job.
Here is a link to a child support/alimony calculator:
[censored]://[censored].cadivorce.com/tools-resources/child-spousal-support-calculator/
I want to be fair and I know you want to include a lot more in my income than what shows on my weekly paycheck. Please use this calculator and see if you can come up with an amount that you are satisfied with. I am in a very tenuous situation right now financially but I will be fair.
I did not present your proposal to my attorney because each time I do it will cost money and I want to make sure whatever I provide her is something we both can agree on.
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Avaya
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 9815
Loc: Arkansas
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He sounds pretty smart; considering how stupid he seems to be based on the information and decisions you've previously provided.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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DedicatedDad
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So, how much is the proposal from the calculator?
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gr8Dad
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"I am not prepared to relinquish my entire half of the ownership of the house. I am however willing to negotiate the equitable distribution of the house."
Sounds reasonable.
"The reason I ask is I am not sure about relinquishing alimony or child support will fly with the judge and I want to make sure what we give him, he will accept."
A VERY valid point. If he gives up X or Y in exchange for alimony or child support, and then the judge ORDERS alimony, he gets screwed (which, honestly, I think you are trying to do anyway)
"Your proposal didn't mention how much you expected to receive in rent for the house. If it's something I can't afford, then it wouldn't work anyway."
Another reasonable request. You want him to agree to give you CONCRETE items and amounts, while you offer possibly illegal transactions and VAGUE rental amounts.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Renny
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Posts: 479
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Shanti, you can't waive cs. It's the kids right, not yours. So any agreementbwill have to have a specific figure for cs produced by the calculator. I guess he didn't understand that you would be paying him cs if you are the ncp. Just as well, because that didn't sound like a good idea.
He also is not willing to give you all the interest in the house. Fine. The house will hav to be sold. But meanwhile, you stay in the house with the kids and he pays cs. Whe the house sells, he gets 25% of the proceeds. Plus he takes all the debt and youbrelinquish any claim to his pension.
This is all agreed upfront. The judge will not impose alimony if it's not in the agreement. But the judge must order cs in accordance with the guidelines.
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Shanti
newbie
Reged: 10/29/11
Posts: 36
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He didn't give me a counter proposal so I have to come up with one. I was able to look the boat documentations. It is all in his name and I didn't sign anything. Really bummer that in USA a bank will loan that kind of money and not ask for the wife's signature. Really unfair. I also noticed that his business is not in the documentation. So his business just pays for it and doesn't own it in any way. My question is: Would a judge take into consideration if I tell him that my stbx always claimed that this yacht is a second office for the business. He keeps track of documentation to show that the yacht is a second office in case the IRS questions it. Even the name of the boat is his business. He is a land surveyor and the name of the boat is Port Surveyor...you know...if it were a family boat it would have his wife's name not a business name.
Renny, I am not going to wave cs. I gave up on the idea. I wonder if judge would even give him 50x50 when he works 52 hours a week and won't take time off no matter what. Last time he took a two week vacation was in 2006 and no vacation sense then.
Why do you say he gets 25%? He didn't say what is the amount he would grant me and in exchange for what.
I also need to know how can a get him to move out while we are dealing with this. I had a fight last night in front of the kids when I said I want my inheritance back because I used all of them with in the family and he said it is
not" his issue how I chose to use my money" .
He can live on the 2 bed/2 bath yacht while we sort this out. Where can I fill a paper asking him out of the house without using an attorney for this?
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DedicatedDad
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Reged: 09/05/04
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"Really bummer that in USA a bank will loan that kind of money and not ask for the wife's signature. Really unfair.
Why the hell would you want your name on a $500,000 upside down debt, that you would be responsible for covering half the loss?
"Fill out a paper" to get exclusive use of the house?
Good luck.
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Shanti
newbie
Reged: 10/29/11
Posts: 36
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Because I am responsible for half the debt even thou I didn't sign the loan. That is how it goes in California.
"Fill out a paper" to get him out of the house while we are in the process of divorce.
Edited by Shanti (11/09/11 12:38 PM)
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DedicatedDad
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"Because I am responsible for half the debt even thou I didn't sign the loan. That is how it goes in California."
Is this what your attorney says about an asset that is being used by someone else's business?
"Fill out a paper" to get him out of the house while we are in the process of divorce."
That's what I said.
You need an attorney.
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gr8Dad
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You know, I have been nice so far, but I am going to be honest, you REALLY sound like a selfish bytch. You want ALL the paid for assets, you want YOUR money back that you put into the house, AND you want him to take all of the debt. Now you are using the fact that he WORKED a lot to take the KIDS as well.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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javajunkiee
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/08
Posts: 3153
Loc: SC
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Seriously Shanti, you need to get an attorney. Between what you've invested and what you think is fair, and what he has or doesn't have for a business or pension.... you need to both get attornies.
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Marriage doesn't come with a money-back guarantee.
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Renny
addict
Reged: 09/24/11
Posts: 479
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Only a court order or the police following a domestic violence incident can force one of the parties out of the marital residence.
He has to pay cs if you are the cp. The court can't rubber stamp an agreement by the parties -- it must conform with the cs guidelines in effect.
The 25% was my proposal. The agreement is that You put the house on the market, stay in it with the children until it sells, and when it does he gets 25% of the net proceeds, you get 75%. He can have his yacht and associated debt and all the other debt, plus his retirement.
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Avaya
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 9815
Loc: Arkansas
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[quote]Really bummer that in USA a bank will loan that kind of money and not ask for the wife's signature. [/quote]
If the loan is only in his name, that's just normal business.
[quote]Would a judge take into consideration if I tell him that my stbx always claimed that this yacht is a second office for the business. [/quote]
Irrelevant. It doesn't have to be in the business' name in order to legitimately be a second office.
[quote]...if it were a family boat it would have his wife's name [/quote]
Not necessarily.
[quote]... if judge would even give him 50x50 when he works 52 hours a week and won't take time off no matter what. Last time he took a two week vacation was in 2006 and no vacation sense then.[/quote]
Yet, you wanted to give him sole custody......
[quote]I also need to know how can a get him to move out ...[/quote]
But you want him to rent the house from you......why should he move out? Why don't you move out?
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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Shanti
newbie
Reged: 10/29/11
Posts: 36
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[quote]If the loan is only in his name, that's just normal business.[quote]
Do you mean to say that I am not responsible for this loan? Or that I am responsible for this loan?
Like he signed the loan just as a businessman who signs everything else in this business, so this loan belongs to the business or that they don't need my signature for a loan yet I am still responsible for it because I am married to him?
The custody is no longer an issue I wasn't aware of the implications. The idea of renting the house to him was to avoid selling the house. Also not an option anymore as I was advised that moving out of the house I can lose custody for not having adequately housing for my children.
Based on the money that I will be getting (and not yet having a job) I can barely afford a one bedroom apartment. The rentals that I checked need to see an income of 3x what the rental cost.
I can see now that I have no option but selling the house.
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Shanti
newbie
Reged: 10/29/11
Posts: 36
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The reason that I think he should move out is because he has a father, a sister and a 47 foot yacht in town. He has a choice of places to go. Btw yacht docked in the luxuriously 5 stars Marriott Marina in downtown San Diego.
All hotel amenities included with the slip fee.
I don't have a single family member in town (or in the country for that matter) and $80,00 in my bank account.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30195
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"The custody is no longer an issue I wasn't aware of the implications."
SO when you thought HE could take care of the kids, YOU could get a monthly rent check, and NOT pay any support, you were all for it. Now that you know you CAN'T get that, YOU want the kids?
I wish I knew how to get in touch with your ex, so I could advise him to copy this thread and show it to the judge as an example of what a CRAPPY parent you are.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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DedicatedDad
veteran
Reged: 09/05/04
Posts: 1318
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Selling the house? You are spending all your time on how to continue to get a free ride. You were even willing to give away custody as you thought he would have to pick all of the expense of it...when you found out you would have to pay, your tune changed....as in it's not about the children to you but MONEY.
Lady, you need to get a job.
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Renny
addict
Reged: 09/24/11
Posts: 479
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Gr8, I think shanti was merely trying to work out something for the kids and herself -- some deal ht would allow her to keep her inheritance while not rocking the boat for the kids and father. Anyway, there seems to be an understanding now that any deal would involve selling the house.
A word about the cursed yacht. Every time this thread pops up i see limony and a yacht. This case is bout survival. And Anything under 100 feet these days is a boat. It's a stupid boat and it costs a fortune to
maintain that the husband doesn't have. He should be making around half a million a year to have a boat. Instead he's trying to take money out of the house to pay for the boat.
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Shanti
newbie
Reged: 10/29/11
Posts: 36
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I guess I will stop writing on this thread.
My reason for not wanting to sell the house is being ridiculous misunderstood.
This house has no mortgage so it wouldn't be difficult to stay here and wait until the economy gets better to sell it.
My stbx never saw a house with no mortgage in his life (his 82 years old father still has one). So he is dying to put his hands on the proceeds of the house. I know he has the right to do as he pleases but I have kids that depend on us.
The custody issue was so misunderstood too...there was nothing malicious on my part...all I was trying to do was to find a way that he wouldn't be so desperately for money, I thought by not having to pay cs he wouldn't feel such an urgency to sell the house...it has nothing to do with me finding out that I would have to pay cs to him...omg...so off the mark DedicatedDad.
I have no trust on my stbx's ability to handle money. A man who buys a boat when he has children to raise is not to be trusted. As a matter of fact if we didn't lose our house like happened to so many people lately is because of me paying off the mortgage with my inheritance. Because once he started making 45k it would have been extremely hard for him to keep up with mortgage payments. He is luck that I was unselfish enough to invest my inheritance in the house freeing ourselves from mortgage. It is just natural now that I want my money back otherwise all I did was to able him to purchase a " boy's toy" .
Btw when he bought the boat his family, his friends and I were shocked. Everybody thought it was the most childish thing to do. Of course I now have to fight not to be part of this boat loan that I never agreed to in the first place.
I will definitely get an attorney to speak for me because I can't risk the judge misunderstanding my intentions like happened here. I got a lot of great ideas here and I thank you all, even the ones who called me gold digger and bxxx e.t.c because it made me realize how I need a legal representation.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30195
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The problem is that you want you MONEY back, AND you want the HOUSE that the money paid for, free and clear.
And you can drop the LIES about "Oh, I just wanted to SAVE him some child suport payments..." BULLSH!T~
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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elliesmom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 8834
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Ok, now you paid off the mortgage with your inheritance?
Unfortunately, I think that will basically comingle the asset and he is going to get half of the house.
Which will cause me to alter my original suggestion. He has no reason to accept such an offer.
I am not sure what the deal is with his dad having a mortgage. My own grandfather ALWAYS had one. Its tax deductible and just about any other type of financing is not. Any boat, car, etc. that he bought was always done by mortgaging the house. Lower interest rate too.
I don't see any way to avoid selling the house. You can't get a mortgage to buy him out with zero income and on his income with all that debt - I would bet he cannot qualify either.
His income is rather low that even though I suspect a 20 yr marriage would garner spousal support - it won't be a high figure. Especially if you plan to have him pay CS. That will come out first.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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DedicatedDad
veteran
Reged: 09/05/04
Posts: 1318
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Gasp....she will have to get a JOB!!!!
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javajunkiee
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/08
Posts: 3153
Loc: SC
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"It is just natural now that I want my money back otherwise all I did was to able him to purchase a " boy's toy" ."
Natural, maybe, naive, probably. What you want and what you could get aren't necessarily the same thing, so be prepared, and learn one valuable lesson for the future:
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Marriage doesn't come with a money-back guarantee.
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Debi
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/03/05
Posts: 7135
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She gave us the name of his boat and where it's docked and in which city. You could probably figure out a way to get a hold of him just on that.
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When we were together, you said you'd die for me. Now, I think it's time you kept your promise.
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Avaya
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 9815
Loc: Arkansas
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[quote]Because once he started making 45k ...I want my money back otherwise all I did was to able him to purchase a " boy's toy" .[/quote]
Lets back up a little bit. How did someone with a 45k salary convince a bank to loan him half a million dollars to buy a yacht? Did he use the house as collateral? He HAD to have collateral OR his income isn't 45k (which is what I've been saying all along - just because that's what he 'brings home' that doesn't make it his salary - all of the bills the company pays on his behalf should be considered salary to him).
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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