kathryndavis
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Reged: 08/06/12
Posts: 7
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Does anyone know of a vehicle for post-decree discovery? My ex owns a family business and lives way beyond the means of the income he reported to the court. One of his employees told me the company created a new set of accounting books, including falsified pay stubs, in order for him to pay less child support. Isn't this fraud? How do I prove it?
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MinnesotaMom
member
Reged: 01/05/11
Posts: 171
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You will never prove it unless you can get someone to testify and actually provide both sets of books.
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kathryndavis
recently joined
Reged: 08/06/12
Posts: 7
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Yes, I understand. What I need to know is the legal vehicle for getting these records. If I take him back to court for a modification of cs, am I entitled to discovery? I know I'll have to be able to legally access his bank records and so forth. He leased a car last year, so he probably provided his real income on the loan application.
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MinnesotaMom
member
Reged: 01/05/11
Posts: 171
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Listing an income won't help, as many folks inflate their numbers. The company itself is only going to submit what his W2 says he earned so that won't help.
Working for relatives or being self-employed are the leading ways people hide income.
Access to bank records is usually only granted during divorce and not for CS reviews. You would need a forensic accountant, which will cost up to $10K out of your pocket.
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kathryndavis
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Reged: 08/06/12
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but isn't it against the law to lie on a loan application? And at least it would prove to the court that he is not credible?
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ssmom79
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Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 7784
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You're not going to be able to use a loan application to 'prove' his income and no I doubt that would hurt his credibility in a way that you are seeking.
This guy likely has a W2 and a check stub to provide to the court what his income is. He likely has taxes filed with the income he used for your calculations. You don't even KNOW if he used inflated income on a lease, you're just guessing....and frankly if this guy was smart enough to have a company cook the books to reduce his support, he's probably smart enough to use the same reduced income to obtain a loan. Or even have the company hold the lease on the vehicle.
It's just a really hard thing to do when you have a company willing to keep two books for a person. Frankly, I have no idea short of a forensic accountant that you would get that information. How about asking the person who gave you this information to get a copy of the second set of books. That's what you need.
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Sherron
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Reged: 11/25/06
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"Working for relatives or being self-employed are the leading ways people hide income. "
I agree with MinnesotaMom, who sounds rather dedicated. Unfortunately the best advice I can give you is, sorry this is going on, but unless you can afford to spend more money than you are likely to receive in return for years to come... accept that this is just the way it is. No, it isn't fair... my ex is "self employed", trust me, I understand the frustration. Letting it go didn't make it right, but it preserved my sanity in a situation I am powerless to change.
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kathryndavis
recently joined
Reged: 08/06/12
Posts: 7
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if I did hire a forensic accountant, how would he/she access the records? If filing a motion for a child support modification would not allow discovery extending to his bank records, etc...then should I file another type of civil action against him that would allow the relevant discovery?
thanks you all ---
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ssmom79
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Posts: 7784
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Why didn't you do all of this in the initial divorce?
Can you afford an attorney, because I'd start there. Explain the story. Let them tell you the good, bad, and ugly of it. If you're not balking at the cost of a forensic accountant, I'd assume a few meeting with an attorney who specializes in finding hidden assets would be no problem.
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Goodmom
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Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2015
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[quote]Does anyone know of a vehicle for post-decree discovery? My ex owns a family business and lives way beyond the means of the income he reported to the court. One of his employees told me the company created a new set of accounting books, including falsified pay stubs, in order for him to pay less child support. Isn't this fraud? How do I prove it? [/quote]
Request a certified copy of his tax returns from the IRS. Yes, it is fraud. But proving it is going to be difficult without solid proof. And if he's doing this just for child support, you may get the true income from the tax return.
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kathryndavis
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Reged: 08/06/12
Posts: 7
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[quote]Why didn't you do all of this in the initial divorce?
If only I had known back then I would have. Terrible attorney, just awful.
I asked about the forensic accountant because my brother is a CPA. He was out of the country while my divorce was going on.
Can you afford an attorney, because I'd start there. Explain the story. Let them tell you the good, bad, and ugly of it. If you're not balking at the cost of a forensic accountant, I'd assume a few meeting with an attorney who specializes in finding hidden assets would be no problem.
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Avaya
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Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 9816
Loc: Arkansas
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He's paying less CS - is he paying adequate CS?
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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Sherron
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/25/06
Posts: 20056
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"He's paying less CS - is he paying adequate CS? "
Would paying "adequate cs" make his actions less fraudulent? The laws are in place, they should be followed. What is the standard for "adequate cs" anyway, is cs adequate when the kids are taken care of? What if the kids are taken care of, at the detriment of bm's own needs, and yes, even wants? What if she was to get more, and put the extra in a college fund? Who decides what is "adequate cs"? If bm believes a court ordered amount based on all the correct financials is not "adequate", should she get more? Much easier to just follow the law, unfortunately the OP will likely not be able to force dad to do so.
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