2moreYears
recently joined
Reged: 03/20/13
Posts: 5
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STATE: Oregon
My husband has a 19 year old daughter from a previous marriage that he is ordered to pay $726 per month in child support. Under ORS 107.108, this amount continues until the "child" is 21 years of age, if the "child" is attending school. ORS 107.108 also states that the "child" is entitled to "regularly scheduled breaks", which means we fund this 19 year old "child's" summer vacations...Cabo, California, etc. It is OUR (I say OUR instead of HIS because we are a team) responsibility to request a report from the school of the "child's" academic progress, class load, and progress every 90 days. The "child" has no responsibilities, no accountability, and no obligations to do anything to receive this money.
After the "child" graduated high school, per proper procedure, we submitted our objection paperwork to CSED (child support enforcement division) because we had not been notified that the "child" was going to continue her education and we were, therefore, objecting further payment of child support. Because the "child" is entitled to a summer vacation, we didn't receive anything until the "child" submitted her "intent" to attend beauty school in August, 2012. She subsequently enrolled and began taking classes late September, 2012. We requested information regarding her academic status from the beauty school on January 3rd, 2013. No response. We requested again on January 26th. No response. Finally, on February 28th, 2013, after many calls, letters, faxes, we received verification from the beauty school that the "child" had withdrawn from their school effective November 27, 2012. The school apologized by saying our request for information had "slipped through the cracks" because she had withdrawn so soon after enrollment they didn't really have any information on her. By the time we received this information, we had already paid "child" support for December, January, and February. We immediately filed an objection form with CSED, which they received March 6, 2013. Now she has 30 days from March 6th to respond to our objection and/or enroll in another school in order to continue receiving that $726 per month. After talking with the CSED, they informed us that even though the "child" didn't uphold her side of ORS 107.108 by 1) attending school and by 2) informing the state as well as the obligor of her dropping out of and/or changing schools there are NO CONSEQUENCES to her. She is still entitled to her 30 day response period, even though we have proof and documentation from the beauty school of her exit date. Not only are there NO consequences for the adult "child" breaking her part of the contract, lying by omission, and fraudulently cashing our child support checks we are OUT the $2178 that we paid to her while we were unaware of the true status of her academic enrollment. The adult "child" certainly knew, and her mother certainly knew...but that didn't stop them from texting mid-month in December and January asking if her money had been sent. The frosting on the cake? The State of Oregon's system "doesn't do refunds or reimbursements". (Ironic that their "system" can accrue arrears to the obligor.) According to the State of Oregon, our only recourse is to sue his 19 year old daughter for the overpayment of "child" support. They expect us to sue my husband's daughter as an adult in a court of law, yet this is the same "child" they believe isn't responsible or mature enough to submit regular or routine paperwork to prove their eligibility under ORS 107.108. This is sickening, frustrating, and maddening.
So, what is the State of Oregon by way of ORS 107.108 teaching these young adult "children"??
1. It is OK to lie and manipulate through omission. (This appears to be a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.)
2. It is OK to take money that you didn't earn. (This is called fraud in most states.)
3. It is OK to expect hand outs for doing nothing. (This sense of entitlement seems to be a resounding problem with young adults in our society today.) (Three month long summer vacations financed by someone else...?!)
4. You don't have to work hard to realize a goal. (It might be uncomfortable to work a job in order to help with expenses, but it's been done by many generations and I don't think it's ever killed anyone.)
5. You aren't accountable to anyone. (Just wait for the mail, open the envelope, go to the bank, cash the check...)
6. You aren't responsible for anything. (Someone else will take care of it for me...)
If Senator Betsy Johnson can't get ORS 107.108 repealed (Senate Bill 341 is attempting to do just that), at the very least I hope it can be modified. I know the wheels of justice are very slow and I realize we may never see the benefit of any modifications, but some other poor obligor in Oregon may.
While most of this is venting, I do have a question:
In 2008/2009 we had custody of my husband's daughter for a full 12 months. She wasn't getting along with her mother and she requested to live with us. We were happy to have her. The mother told us she wouldn't be able to afford to pay us "much" child support and that she would pay what she could, when she could (which turned out to be NOTHING, EVER), however, she was willing to put a "hold" on the support we paid. We agreed because our top priority was the happiness, well being, and health of the child. After living with us for 12 months, the child decided to move back with her mother and the mother immediately re-instated child support...and the State of Oregon went back the full 12 months and in a matter of a week, we were $8712 in arrears. I called the CSED and told them the child was in our custody and I could provide documentation. They didn't care. It didn't matter where the child was because the child support order was not amended, it was only "on hold". After much begging, pleading, cajoling, the mother finally "waived" 6 of the 12 months of (fraudulent) arrearages. CSED told us if we wanted child support for those 12 months plus the 8 months of overpayment to the mother we had to...wait for it...sue her. (I would like to add that the mother happens to be a Legal Assistant by trade and she knows/has always known how to play the game.)
Well, after the recent turn of events, we are now ready to do that. We have had enough. We are tired of being victimized by the mother, the "child", and ORS 107.108. The proverbial "straw", if you will. This is not a small amount of money we are out. $4356 for overpayment to the mother in 2008/2009, $3600 for child support due to us in 2008/2009 (figured at $300/month which is a bargain compared to what we pay, but since we don't know what her income is, we figured this is a safe amount to request), and the most recent $2178 that was overpaid in 2013. Now that the child is an adult, the mother has no children that she is financially responsible for would it be possible, plausible to file a small claims suit for 12 months of child support (6/2008-6/2009) plus the overpayment of child support? Has anyone else ever found themselves in this situation? Has anyone successfully sued in a similar situation?
Sorry this post is so long...it's been festering for quite some time. Feedback/comments/suggestions are appreciated.
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2018
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First of all, you may say OUR. But it is HIS. As far as the court is concerned, you are a legal stranger. Any action taken will have to be done by your husband.
Second, for the year that your husband's daughter was living with him, well, he's not going to be able to get anything support wise since there was no court ordered child support other than the one ordering him to pay. In other words, he won't win this one. The time to get support was then. He chose not to amend a court order. Which means that not only will he get nothing, he will not get what he paid for that year. He's lucky that his ex waived some of it. Otherwise, he would still be on the hook for what was not paid.
Third, as for the child support paid since she dropped out (if he does recover some of it, it will only be from when she dropped out, not the whole time), the court is likely to view it as your husband not being diligent enough to get the information sooner. Sure, he sent a request. But did he follow up when he didn't get a response? If he did, how long? And can he even prove that he sent a request for information?
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2moreYears
recently joined
Reged: 03/20/13
Posts: 5
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Yes, I realize the court will only recognize me as a legal stranger. I say WE and OUR because we are married and we deal with these issues at home together. I know that any legal action will have to be done by him.
Also, as far as child support paid AFTER she dropped out - we will NOT get ANY reimbursement as Oregon will only suspend the child support order effective the date they received our objection, which was March 6th. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter to the state that her last day was November 28th. We did follow up several times, in fact, and we do have proof, but it is irrelevant because the state only recognizes the date they received our objection. The maddening reality of this policy is they are allowing - encouraging, even - the 19 year old "child" to be fraudulent, lie, and collect "child" support she is legally not entitled to.
The reason we didn't file a small claims against the mother sooner is she was still caring for their daughter. We felt a small claims for child support for that year she lived with us would cause a hardship and we didn't want that to have an effect on their child.
I appreciate your comments and thank you for your time. I guess we just have to resign ourselves to the fact that we got screwed and, sadly, there is no way to recover any of our losses. We will most certainly be extra diligent in the future if she decides to go back to school within the next two years. Until then, we will wait on pins and needles...
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ssmom79
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 7806
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I appreciate your comments and thank you for your time. I guess we just have to resign ourselves to the fact that we got screwed and, sadly, there is no way to recover any of our losses. We will most certainly be extra diligent in the future if she decides to go back to school within the next two years. Until then, we will wait on pins and needles...
_____________________________________________
Yes this is what you will have to do.
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BeachBabeRN
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 3049
Loc: VA for 21 years, NC forever!
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I'm curious about something -- you said the child is entitled to **regularly scheduled breaks** and you've been funding expensive vacations, etc for her.
In my opinion, a scheduled **break** does NOT include trips to Cabo, etc. If she wants to go to Cabo, she can go and work for the money to pay for those trips because surely she wasn't going alone, right? Mom was going?
They'd be serving ice water in he!! before I paid for a vacation such as that.
And do you pay the support directly to her? Seems to me that mom is supposed to be getting the money, not the child. What she then does with it is up to her.
It surely s*cks that you're in this situation -- but the others are right, without amending the custody order, your husband was obligated to pay during the time that the child lived with you --
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2moreYears
recently joined
Reged: 03/20/13
Posts: 5
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@ BeachBabeRN:
Yes, the State of Oregon requires that the "child" support be paid for regularly scheduled breaks, not to exceed 4 months at one time, as long as she INTENDS on returning to school the following term.
So - hypothetically, she could "intend" on going to school again in September and take off June, July, August (collect "child" support) and then decide in September that she's not going back to school after all. And we would get NOTHING reimbursed to us. The system is fatally flawed.
We were told that she did set up her own account and that the money is going directly to her. She gets to spend it as she sees fit - and if she decides to spend that $726 she receives each month during the summer to go to Disneyland or Cabo with her friends, she is entitled to do so.
I don't know WHAT these lawmakers were thinking when they created ORS 107.108!
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BeachBabeRN
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 3049
Loc: VA for 21 years, NC forever!
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I'm curious -- why is the support paid to the child as opposed to her parent? I'm assuming that she is living with her mother. Child support isn't really intended to go to the child directly -- but I share your frustration about it paying for expensive vacations, etc. as opposed to actually being used for the child's **support** in her mother's home.
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2moreYears
recently joined
Reged: 03/20/13
Posts: 5
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My understanding is when child turns 18, the support goes directly to them. And, yes, she is still living with her mother.
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BeachBabeRN
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 3049
Loc: VA for 21 years, NC forever!
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Wow, really???? That completely s*cks. Are you absolutely certain that's what it says? That would be completely outrageous in most states.
If you haven't done so already, I'd urge you to read the entire statute to find out if that's really the case.
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BeachBabeRN
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 3049
Loc: VA for 21 years, NC forever!
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Good God, that's EXACTLY what it says. That's completely outrageous.
However....in reading the actual statute, your child has breached some of the provisions of it. There are a PILE of things that the CHILD has to fulfill in order to remain eligible to collect child support. If you haven't gotten all the documentation required, as I read it, it's a cause for action.
That statute specifically states that a child over 18 is a party to the action -- I don't see why you couldn't take this into court on your own, as in an Order to Show Cause hearing. And if the only way to recoup your money that was overpaid is to sue for it???? Then do it....but the 6 months of child support arrearages? That's not going to go away since the child support order was never modified to reflect the fact that she was living with you and a definitive child support order for your ex entered.
I just don't read the law that way -- it does not specifically state that there are no consequences for the child's actions. If you don't have to pay an attorney? Why not try it? I would.
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