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annieo
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Re: Right of first refusal and uninterrupted visitatio [Re: annatof4]
      #756541 - 07/21/11 11:03 AM

I think they mean that ROFR is used for non-family members ie daycare, baby sitter (not family) and it seems as though (I could be wrong) that you are saying a stepparent, family member, grandparent - are not allowed to watch the child if the parent is not available for (example over 4 hours) and ROFR is to be utilized which is wrong.

That is how I read your information it but I could be wrong - wouldn't be the first time ;)


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Maury
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Re: Right of first refusal and uninterrupted visitatio [Re: Jave]
      #756755 - 07/22/11 12:20 AM

The answer depends on your order and what, if anything, it requires for a right of first refusal. they can be crafted to exclude family members or spouses or they can be crafted to include them.

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annatof4
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Re: Right of first refusal and uninterrupted visitatio [Re: annieo]
      #756772 - 07/22/11 07:30 AM

I always thought that ROFR was meant to be used when either parent could not be with the kids during their "time", they would have to ask the other parent, BEFORE they considered family, step parent, friend, etc. Well, that is how mine is read. Maury is right, it could be whatever is written. I just thought that ROFR was standard.

If my ex were to be called into work during his weekend, he has to call me and ask if I can take lil man. If I cannot, that is when he can have whomever watch our lil man. And vice versa during my time.


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MrsB
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Re: Right of first refusal and uninterrupted visitatio [Re: annatof4]
      #756833 - 07/22/11 01:10 PM

It's not always standard nor is it even in all CO's.

It could definitely depend on the state one lives in and what is agreed to or ordered and put in the decree. Usually IME Sp's aren't considered apart of it. In mine and X's CO his mother is not ever to be left alone with DS so ROFR always applies in that situation. For others it's 4 hours.


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annieo
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Re: Right of first refusal and uninterrupted visitatio [Re: MrsB]
      #757111 - 07/23/11 12:52 PM

Considering the extended family is suppose to have time with the children on the parents time having a stipulation that extended family are not allowed is another way to exclude the children from the NCP's family after all they are just a "visitor" - unless there is a reason for a certain person the child should not be left with and they are specifically spelled out in the order then the NORM is that the extended family can take care of the child if parent in unavailable - I going on the parent is called to work or something along those lines - no reason the extended family couldn't see child.

Now if it is all summer or something like that - hopefully the CP would allow the child to spend time with the extended family - maybe not the whole summer but certainly some time - this is of course it the parent regularly exercises their time and not just hey I want to give all my time to extended family and not see the children - but then again that is where the cp needs to facilitate a way for the children to know the ncp side of the family - unless of course there are substantiated reasons as to danger or what have you.


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annatof4
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Re: Right of first refusal and uninterrupted visitatio [Re: annieo]
      #757172 - 07/24/11 07:52 AM

I understand extended family and all....but, thats not what ROFR is. Unless otherwise written in the ROFR.

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annieo
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Re: Right of first refusal and uninterrupted visitatio [Re: annatof4]
      #757189 - 07/24/11 12:33 PM

so if you are ncp and it is your time but you get called into work for say 5 hours and your mother is visiting or maybe you even live with her - she can't watch the child for that time period - I suppose it must go from state to state because if you took that to court to complain in my state you'd be told you were wasting the courts time because - ROFR is if the parent has to go outside the family to hire someone to watch the child if for some reason they have to be gone over the designated time period.

Another scenario - your the cp and you get called to the hospital for whatever reason (SO had a car accident etc...) and you live with or right next to your mother or sister etc... you would have to call the other parent to watch the child because the mother or sister cannot "fill in" for you because your definition is family can not help out. In all the orders I have seen it doesn't include the use of family as in you have to call the other parent - family can stand in - a stepparent would just watch the child until the parent returned - in your definition you would go get the child for the 5 hours - lots of times there are half-siblings that see each other on the other parents time - I don't want to be rude but you would take that time away because dad or mom had to go to work??

I am sure you can have your order to reflect that thinking but (at least in this state) it is NOT the meaning of ROFR.

The best interest of the child is not served if they are being taken for say the 5 hour time period out of their ncp home or even cp home and the taken back 5 hours later to fulfill a ROFR - family can stand and in the case of siblings that would be taking time away from them - not in the best interest - but I guess if the "real" reason is to lesson the time the child spends with the ncp and their family and siblings then by all means utilize that control and have it put in your order spelled out that way. This does not include dangerous family watching the child like in Mrs. B's case.

ETA - if there is an older sibling to watch the younger one and you had to go to work or a baby shower or whatever - they older sibling cannot spend time with the child because they have to go to back to the other parent due to the over 4 hours or whatever - reeks of control on the cp's part - ncp would allow their family or older child to help out and utilize their time - however little time that may or may not be. I also don't see the CP calling the other parent either as a way of more control yet they would expect the NCP to give up time....

Edited by annieo (07/24/11 12:39 PM)


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annatof4
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Re: Right of first refusal and uninterrupted visitatio [Re: annieo]
      #757240 - 07/25/11 08:50 AM

In the legal definition, "In general, the right of a person or company to purchase something before the offering is made available to others."

In family law, "The "Right Of First Refusal" is a provision frequently written into custody orders and parenting plans. The intent of a Right Of First Refusal provision is to maximize the time child spends with both parents (especially the non-custodial parent, whose time is normally limited to begin with). In its most basic form, Right Of First Refusal means that before either parent can use the services of a baby-sitter or other third-party caregiver, the other parent must be given the opportunity to care for the child during that time."

In my ROFR ordered in my state, If during my parenting time, I am called into work and expected to not be with the child for 3 hours or more, I am required to contact the other parent and offer the time to him BEFORE I seek any other person. If he declines the offer of time, I then can contact family, friends, etc. Vice versa during his parenting time.

As I have said, it could be written differently to include or exclude persons. I am NOT saying that it is right...or wrong.

I agree with you, it is all of "power/control", for both CP AND NCP.

I only have the ROFR revision in my CO because I was to go out of town during my time. I wanted my sister to watch our son. We lived on the same street and we are very close. It didnt seem like a big deal. I would have been gone for around 10 hours. The father said that he could have watched him and he should have been notified and given the opportunity.....thus, we now have the ROFR revision in the CO. :)


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c_jane
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Re: Right of first refusal and uninterrupted visitatio [Re: annatof4]
      #757324 - 07/25/11 05:59 PM

My ROFR specifically EXcluded the SM because our son had indicated to the GAL for our Mod. hearing that SM was the adult he spent the MOST time with. Dad (CP) had gladly given up his parental responsibilities to SM, who stayed home.

As we lived (and still do) less than a mile from each other, and I had off all school holidays/vacations, the ROFR was written so if Dad had to work on those holidays/vacations but I was off, DS would come to my house instead of staying w/SM.

Pissed them off no END as Dad wanted to 'replace' me with SM. Especially when I told them, yes I really TRULY wanted to invoke it instead of just leaving DS to stay with SM.

--------------------
John Constantine: God's a kid with an ant farm.... He's not planning anything.


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annieo
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Re: Right of first refusal and uninterrupted visitatio [Re: c_jane]
      #757379 - 07/25/11 08:51 PM

and that is why you and your ex continue to spar over who has control and the last laugh which will affect your son

your exercising of ROFR is in the spirit of ownership of your child and who can control who - such a sad situation - I feel sorry for your child every time you stick it to your ex and he sticks it to you - your son loses


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