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yregna
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Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn....
      #764790 - 10/13/11 09:57 AM

After divorce. THE CHILDREN ARE NOT YOURS, YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO SEE THEM, NO RIGHTS TO MAKE ANY DECISION REGARDING THE CHILDREN AT ALL. And if you think you are a great father and deserve custody, the court system doesn't give a $hit about that, you get treated EXACTLY the same as absentee father's who screw multiple women and make multiple children they don't want to pay for...

YOU ONLY HAVE OBLIGATIONS TO PAY, AND THE COURT SYSTEM WILL HELP YOUR EX ENFORCE THOSE OBLIGATIONS IN EVERY WAY AND AT YOUR EXPENSE.

If a man thinks he has a right to visitation, he finds out soon enough the court system doesn't give a $hit about his visitation. The court is VERY interested in making him pay and pay and pay. Doesn't matter a bit where the money goes or what it is used for...

This article is no surprise at all, the surprise is it doesn't happen more often. Go out in the wild and take away any animals offspring, back that animal into a corner and see what happens...

SEAL BEACH, Calif. (AP) Every hair-dressing station was full at Salon Meritage Wednesday when a gunman burst through the door and began shooting, sending terrified customers diving for cover in the upscale salon tucked just blocks from the beach in this quaint seaside town. The shooter then stepped outside, shot a man sitting in a truck in the parking lot and sped off.

Six women and two men died. Their identities were not officially released but owner Randy Fannin was among the dead, his niece, Tami Scarcella, told the Los Angeles Times.

A woman who was wounded in the rampage remained in critical condition Thursday, police said.

Sgt. Steve Bowles told reporters the woman was still hospitalized but was showing some improvement. Her name was not released.

A woman who gave her name only as Cindy told the Orange County Register that she was in the salon, having her hair colored, when the gunman came in, went up to a woman stylist and fired.

At first, the customer said she thought it was a Halloween prank.

Then the man shot a woman who was having her hair shampooed, and then shot the salon owner, who was coloring Cindy's hair, she said.

"I just kept hearing boom, boom, boom, boom," she said. "I ran out. I didn't see his face. I just saw the gun in his hand and him shoot (everybody)."

Cindy said she ran next door to another business, where she went Cindy said she ran next door to another business, where she went into the bathroom, closed the door and turned out the light.

"There was like a 'pop pop' ... and my receptionist screamed out, 'He just shot that man' and we all went into the bathroom and called 911," said Kimberly Criswell, who owns a salon two doors away and knew many hairstylists at Salon Meritage. "I'm sure I've lost some friends today."

Police arrested 42-year-old Scott Dekraai about a half-mile from the scene. He did not struggle, police said.

The gunman appeared to have worn body armor and had several guns, police and witnesses said.

Police did not release a motive for the shooting. However, court records and acquaintances said he and his ex-wife, Michelle Fournier Dekraai, of Huntington Beach, who worked at the salon as a licensed cosmetologist, had been locked in a bitter custody battle over their son since he filed for divorce in 2007.

It was unclear whether Fournier was among those killed.

Dekraai was seeking full custody but a court-ordered review recommended against that, John Cate Jr., the attorney for Michelle Dekraai, told the Orange County Register.

Dekraai appeared for a court hearing in the case on Tuesday but it was merely a scheduling meeting, Cate said.

"Obviously, I saw no indication" that he was violent, the attorney said.

Lydia Sosa, a hairstylist who left two years ago to work at a new business with her friend, said the gunman's ex-wife spoke often of her relationship problems.

"They had been having bitter problems for years and I guess he just went in there and started shooting," Sosa said.

It was the worst mass shooting in Orange County history since July 12, 1976, when custodian Edward Allaway killed seven people and wounded two others at California State University, Fullerton. Allaway was convicted of murder but later found to be insane.

In all, one man and five women died at the salon, one man and one woman died after being transported to a nearby hospital.
Glenn Zachman, who owns a video news-gathering service, said he arrived at the scene of the arrest shortly after police and saw they had placed plastic bags over the man's hands to preserve possible gunshot residue.

The man, in handcuffs, was placed in a patrol car and taken away about two-and-a-half hours after the shooting. A new white pickup truck that was believed to be his was parked on the modest residential street with its doors open.

The man was cooperative when officers, working from a description of the shooter, stopped him near the salon, Bowles said.

Shortly after he was arrested, police arrived at a house on Melody Lane in nearby Huntington Beach and escorted two women to a white car and then roped off the house with crime scene tape. The house is registered to Scott Dekraai.

Kari Salveson of Los Alamitos, who attended a service for the victims at SeaCoast Grace Church in Seal Beach, said she had known Michelle Dekraai for more than 10 years.

She said Michelle Dekraai made her every visit to the salon special.

"She could gab away. She was one of those girlfriends you could never get enough of. She made you smile and she made you laugh," Salveson said.

In Huntington Beach, people were shocked to learn that one of the friendliest men in the neighborhood had been arrested for the shootings.

Dekraai's neighbors described him as an outgoing man who invited them over for pool parties at the house he'd lived in for about six years. They said he doted on his son, playing catch with the boy in his yard.

Neighbors said they were aware Dekraai was in a custody battle with his ex-wife over their son, who neighbors said is 7 or 8 years old.

"It was a very difficult battle and he was trying to get more time" with his son, said Jo Cornhall, who lives across the street from Dekraai.

Next-door neighbor Stephanie Malchow, 29, said she was shocked when she saw the photo of the stocky man with thinning hair being detained by Seal Beach police.

"I'm like, no, not this neighbor, no way, he's the nicest guy ever," Malchow said.

Dekraai married his current wife two or three years ago in his backyard, said Malchow, who attended the wedding.

"He seemed very happy, he was just so happy he found someone new who loved his son," she said.

Dekraai walked with a limp after a tug boat accident that killed a fellow tug boat operator about two miles off the coast in 2007. Cornhall said he uses a brace for his leg.

Seal Beach has seen just one other homicide in the past four years, and Bowles said Wednesday's killings were the greatest tragedy to ever strike the seaside town.

The downtown is dotted with salons, restaurants, antique shops and boutiques clustered just blocks from a beach and pier popular with teenagers and young families. Many residents live and work within walking distance of the ocean and many businesses cater to Leisure World, a gated retirement community a few miles away that is home to 9,000 people.

"It's like Mayberry in the middle of Los Angeles," said Doyle Surratt, lead pastor of SeaCoast Grace Church. "We're small and all the kids go to school together."

--------------------
"Anything free is worth what you pay for it..."
"Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get"


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youngatheart
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: yregna]
      #764793 - 10/13/11 10:50 AM

Just proves she was right in trying to limit the kid's time with the psycho.

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DedicatedDad
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: youngatheart]
      #764797 - 10/13/11 12:27 PM

The untold story is this kind of thing happens all the time.....it's just not in the news as the highest percentage of male suicides is within the first year after divorce.

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youngatheart
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #764803 - 10/13/11 12:39 PM

That would be 100% the responsibility of the men involved.

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yregna
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: youngatheart]
      #764806 - 10/13/11 01:18 PM

If you are female, saying this guy was just another psycho is really the easy way out, excellent excuse for your own behavior.
I would do it 'cause the reality is really ugly. Just like very wealthy corporation owners, keep sellin' that trickle down theory to excuse your golden parachute.

Most women I talk to take this point of view. Very few know the reality, and most of them are the 2nd wives of a hubby who has children previous. THEY UNDERSTAND how biased the system is...But for all the rest of the female population, why knock a system that gives you everything, and crushes a guy you are divorced from to boot ? Most women have exactly the same opinion about alimony, women should get it no matter what the circumstances, and men shouldn't...its all good...




At least until an " incident " like this happens...

--------------------
"Anything free is worth what you pay for it..."
"Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get"


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DedicatedDad
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: youngatheart]
      #764807 - 10/13/11 01:23 PM

"That would be 100% the responsibility of the men involved."

The suicides? Yes. The loss of their home, children, families and future income? Not necessarily.


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Sherron
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #764812 - 10/13/11 01:36 PM

"If you are female, saying this guy was just another psycho is really the easy way out, excellent excuse for your own behavior."

Not quite as good as the excuse "my ex-wife and the courts made me shoot and kill 8 random people", but hey...


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buckwheat
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: Sherron]
      #764814 - 10/13/11 01:45 PM

You fukkers on here are all crazy, passing the blame for some hut job who killed a bunch of people, he had a major screw loose, he probably would have done something like this no matter what was going on in his life, it seems everyone on a divorce site is always looking for a scapegoat. Ole angry blames the system, someone else blames the ex.

This guy killed some people, the blame rest in him and no one else, dont you fags get it! He did it, not the system, not some freakin court fight, this guy did this of his own free will.

Why do all folks in divorce want to pass the buck to someone else for thier own faults, just crazy just crazy.


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youngatheart
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: yregna]
      #764819 - 10/13/11 02:27 PM

He made the decision to shoot people. Yes, he's a psycho. Doesn't matter how "wronged" he thinks he was.

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youngatheart
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #764820 - 10/13/11 02:30 PM

I was speaking regarding the suicides. Sometimes [censored] things happen to us. We have the choice as to how we respond.

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DedicatedDad
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: buckwheat]
      #764832 - 10/13/11 04:14 PM

Looks like you forgot your Ativan this afternoon.

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DedicatedDad
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: youngatheart]
      #764833 - 10/13/11 04:17 PM

"I was speaking regarding the suicides. Sometimes [censored] things happen to us. We have the choice as to how we respond."

I don't disagree with that. If the laws were suddenly changed where men got custody almost all the time, I would expect a large increase in female suicides post-divorce.

Divorce and loss of family is severely painful. Nothing personal, but if you haven't been an NCP, you can't really know the pain....especially becoming a visitor to your children....it's incredibly painful to be separated from loved ones.


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youngatheart
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #764837 - 10/13/11 04:24 PM

Of course it is painful for most people. Not suicide worthy tho...and I think anyone who chooses that path, it was the right decision for them to not have custody. Sometimes life is rough...get a helmet.

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DedicatedDad
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: youngatheart]
      #764838 - 10/13/11 04:29 PM

Clearly you have your children....you don't know the pain.

Some things you have to live to understand. That's ok. Hopefully, you never will.


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Sherron
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #764839 - 10/13/11 04:34 PM

"Divorce and loss of family is severely painful. Nothing personal, but if you haven't been an NCP, you can't really know the pain....especially becoming a visitor to your children....it's incredibly painful to be separated from loved ones."

While painful, I don't see it reaching the level of committing suicide. I would think under most circumstances, a child would prefer a living ncp to a dead one.


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youngatheart
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #764840 - 10/13/11 04:44 PM

I have my children some of the time, not all of the time, which is pretty typical in divorce situations. I have them more now than when we were first divorced, mostly because of age and distance. Iunderstand children not being with you. I understand dealing with a difficult ex. But none of those are worthy of killing ones self, and doing so is evident that the parent is unstable, and in fact should not have had custody...male or female.

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DedicatedDad
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: Sherron]
      #764859 - 10/13/11 08:27 PM

Well, I know someone that is a EOW parent to his children (wife found new lover and divorced him), and he lost one of them in a car accident last year. He says both were about as painful as the other.

You make it sound like it's no big deal...NCP's can just deal with it....they should learn how to turn off the depression switch.

I'm going to relate it in another way. I was with my ex during almost all of her pregnancy. I was her coach, I read and sang to the womb daily, I participated in the childbirth, actually held the children first, and bonded with them before they were born. But, if you asked me exactly what it's like to have a baby, I have no clue. I didn't actually experience it.

I equate this to being an NCP. You may have seen it, read about it and talked to others about it. But, if you haven't actually experienced it, you can't know what it's like.


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youngatheart
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #764861 - 10/13/11 08:34 PM

Yes, you deal with it, just like you do all the other shitty things that happen in the lives of human beings.

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DedicatedDad
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: youngatheart]
      #764864 - 10/13/11 08:37 PM

I won't post on the subject anymore. You don't appear to have the skill of empathy....which probably isn't much different from most folks.

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youngatheart
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #764865 - 10/13/11 08:40 PM

Oh FFS. I can have empathy, and still think it's best that kids not be in the custody of someone who is so unstable that they would kill themself. That goes for a mother or a father.

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Sherron
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: youngatheart]
      #764867 - 10/13/11 08:56 PM

"Well, I know someone that is a EOW parent to his children (wife found new lover and divorced him), and he lost one of them in a car accident last year. He says both were about as painful as the other. "
We can play the "I know someone" game if you want to...

"You make it sound like it's no big deal...NCP's can just deal with it....they should learn how to turn off the depression switch."
Like anyone else deals with anything... if there is medical depression, the answer would be treatment. I stand by what I said, most kids would prefer a living ncp to a dead one, do you not agree?

"I equate this to being an NCP. You may have seen it, read about it and talked to others about it. But, if you haven't actually experienced it, you can't know what it's like. "
What makes you think I haven't "actually experienced" it? Are those the facts of my case or are you just making them up???


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yregna
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: Sherron]
      #764883 - 10/14/11 10:37 AM

Quote " Of course it is painful for most people. Not suicide worthy tho...and I think anyone who chooses that path, it was the right decision for them to not have custody. Sometimes life is rough...get a helmet. "

Spoken just like white people who visited South Africa back in the '50s and '60s when it was a popular vacation spot. Hey, those blacks can't do anything useful anyway, might as well have them spend 14 hrs a day 3 miles inside the earth digging up diamonds for us white people. At least I have the honesty to get on here and say, hey, I'm white, and in America that gives me advantages, and it puts black people at a disadvantage.

The real difference is WOMEN don't do that, WOMEN continue every single day to spout nonesense about how they get 30% less pay than a man for the same work, how they are the underpriveleged underclass in this society. We men know the truth is exactly the opposite, they can take away our children anytime they want, and get paid for that...

That is the double whammy that sent this guy over the edge, There is ZERO evidence he was ever violent or murderous before this custody battle happened. As a man it seems obvious and straight forward what his motivation was...

If I was a woman, though....I'd probably just write him off as a psycho. And as a woman, I'd probably insist on that 2 carat diamond dug out by that black man's effort deep down inside the earth. And as a woman, I really don't want to hear about how hard that black man's life is because I can't enjoy my diamond as much...

--------------------
"Anything free is worth what you pay for it..."
"Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get"


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buckwheat
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: yregna]
      #764891 - 10/14/11 12:17 PM

Mighty Maggot Breath has spoken!

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finz
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: buckwheat]
      #764978 - 10/15/11 05:08 PM

DD, I hear you on the point about if laws were drastically changed and men always got primary custody, the male post divorce with kids suicide rate may drop and the female rate would rise.

I don't think you are hearing the 'opposing' view correctly. No one is doubting the profound depression that could be triggered by losing the kids/primary custody. There is also the fact that some people who are severely depressed may or will chose suicide, because they cannot see another path. Some people, no matter how dismal the future looks or how badly they feel, WOULD NOT DO THAT. Think about it ? Sure ! But actually act to end there own life ? No...... as proven by the fact that every caring parent who has lost a custody battle has NOT chosen that option.

I personally wouldn't go so far as to say that an eventual suicide is proof that the custody decision going against the parent was the right one. To me, it seems like there are still too many variables involved to make that blanket statement, the number one being that that parent could have been functioning fine before their devastating loss.

I also think there is a HUGE difference between someone who became so depressed they inflicted self harm as they could see no way to go on living with their loss and someone like the guy written about in the OP (not yregna, but I do have my thoughts on his mental stability too.....) who chose to take his anger (and, to me, it sounds like anger, not depression) and focus it externally to purposefully hurt other people. In my opinion, that IS proof that he had some serious screws loose that would have had to have shown up in his parenting in some way.

That yregna seems to feel that a muderer is justified in harming anyone just because he's pissed off at his ex, is scary.


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signguy
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Re: Scott Dekraii learned what all men learn.... [Re: youngatheart]
      #765012 - 10/16/11 04:16 PM

[quote]Of course it is painful for most people. Not suicide worthy tho...and I think anyone who chooses that path, it was the right decision for them to not have custody. Sometimes life is rough...get a helmet. [/quote]

Agree with this 100%. I have my helmet on right now. it is so tough. Whats tougher is that my child was snatched and the domestic abuse card was played by mom after recieving all the civil summons 7 weeks after a parental kidnapping.....
im frustrated as [censored] too. But would never do that. Id go to CA get lost and surf my life away before hurting the ex or those close to her...thats insanity.....You dont hurt others cause they hurt you....

As far as the courts go! yes indeed they dont quite give a [censored]. they hand moms checks on what mom says. once a woman has a child in this country she never lies again, she is sainted.
The worst ive done so far in 13 months of litigation is hung up on the judge.....Haha pretty bad ass....srry no guns here EVER!!!!! Guns are for the weak! If ya wanna get back at the system cause you know ur gettin screwed you gotta clown in the court, mock a judge in court and see if they dont raise your voice at you and become emotionally abusive just like that...:) oh yeah mock a judge and intterupt him with "moo moo" a couple times he/she will ask what that was and jus say "I sneezed meow"
Classic transcript not mine, but lo did that judge become an emotional abuser while judging an alleged emotional abuser....too funny


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