gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30195
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"I am not sure why you are so hostile about this."
I have not been hostile in the least, but that you SEE it as hostile is very telling.
"If two parents disagree on what is best, obviously there are two opposing view points. That is not to say that I haven't listened to, considered, or tried to address Ex's concerns."
What are his concerns?
"By your arguements, it would seem that any time the parties disagree, the one saying "no" will always trump because the other parent shouldn't take action in opposition to that parent's wishes. That can't possibly be the best outcome."
Well, when it cancels or rearranges HIS parenting time, yes, he SHOULD have final say in it.
"Is your suggestion that I swap my vacation week and use it to send dd to camp? I suppose that is another option. I will give it serious consideration, but based on your "fairness" arguments, is it fair that the only way I can send dd to camp is if I give up any and all of my vacation time with her?"
Well, you seem to think HIM giving up vacation time is okay, so why NOT you? YOU want her to go to camp, so she should do so on YOUR time, not interfer with his. If he is willing to allow it, great, but he is not, so you have to find a work around.
For the record, your "sole" decision making authority does NOT give you the right to randomly rearrange HIS parenting time.
"And is it fair to dd to have to miss out on a planned family vacation because her father won't agree to camp?"
Is it fair for the child to miss out on her time with her Dad because YOU want her to go to camp?
"Why should the child have to sacrifice one for the other?"
Because in LIFE< we all have to learn that we can't do everything.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30195
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I am wondering what the concerns are as well. Now, keep in mind, "camp" is a very braod topic. It could be the TYPE of camp (fat camp, etc) or that Mom frquently plans things that interfer with his time, and this was simply the last straw.
If we knew WHY he was against it, it would be a btter scene.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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elliesmom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 8835
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Really - I usually come down on the side of the NCP. But this - is silly. Its a ONE NIGHT per week that she is willing to make up and he has PLENTY of notice about. Its not about the time - its his way of stopping what she wants to do with it. Since as a parent I would never live my life where I couldn't send my kid to CAMP, I would either modify the decree or do it anyway. Or both. ANd whats good for the goose as they say - I think 1 week vacation for HIM is too little also. So I would propose that you BOTH get more than 1 week uninterrupted.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30195
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"But this - is silly. Its a ONE NIGHT per week that she is willing to make up and he has PLENTY of notice about."
Again, we don't know the HISTORY.
"Its not about the time - its his way of stopping what she wants to do with it."
Well, I think it is premature to say that as we do not know what his reasons are.
" Since as a parent I would never live my life where I couldn't send my kid to CAMP, I would either modify the decree or do it anyway."
Well, suppose you thought your kid was healthy and fine, but your ex wanted to take YOUR time and send the kid to a FAT camp, which was COMPLETELY in opposition to your beliefs?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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elliesmom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 8835
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Does "fat camp" even exist for kids?
I wouldn't like it if I thought it was unneeded. But I can't imagine that such a place wouldn't be run by doctors who would prescribe a healthy safe diet. And I would have to think such a place would treat the kids with dignity even if they were there to lose weight. A little education about exercise and nutrition never hurt anyone.
The closest I come to being on his side would be a religious camp that I didn't agree with (say - wiccan or something). But then - ya know - I assume that is what her sole decision making designation is for. So I still don't get there.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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garnet
journeyman
Reged: 01/02/08
Posts: 51
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Thank you for all of the feedback. I will try to answer your question about Ex's objections:
1. He thinks she is too immature
2. He thinks it will be like one big slumber party where she won't get any sleep all week and will come home sick.
3. He thinks it will be a potential disaster (I have tried to get him to articulate what kind of "disaster" he imagines in hopes of addressing it, but he doesn't respond to this question).
On the subject of immaturity, I simply disagree and have told him that if anything, the camp environment will give her an opportunity to grow and mature. On the subject of sleep, I explained that not only will the kids be exhausted from a full day of activities, but they will be sleeping in a cabin with an adult counselor who will also want to sleep and will not allow the kids to stay up all hours of the night. I don't know what he imagines to be the disaster, but I can't think of anything catastrophic that might occur in 5 days away from home. Personally, I think it would do dd good to have time away from both of us. She is an only child, and no matter how hard I try to shield her from it, she is definitely sensitive to the conflict between Ex and me. I would love to give her a week of complete freedom from that burden and opportunity to start figuring out who she is and what she wants independent of the two of us.
The camp is not a specialized camp, but is a one week extension of the day camp she has attended for several years. It is simply designed to give a bunch of city kids a week in the country and have a traditional camp experience.
Furthermore, to respond to one of the comments made above, this isn't simply something that I want for dd. This is something that SHE wants and is begging for. I am not looking to "randomly rearrange" ex's parenting time, and have tried to address any inequity that would occur in missing his mid week overnight.
To clarify about the vacation time, we each get one week in the summer (and alternate years for who gets to choose first). We do have other uninterrupted vacation weeks during the rest of the school year (Spring break, Christmas break, etc). I wasn't sure if that was clear.
In the end, I am probably not looking to start World War III over a 5 day sleep away camp. I've already spent more than enough time in court on custody and the divorce in general. I came looking for advice because I really would like to give dd this opportunity and was trying to figure out what legal rights I do or don't have in this case. I was never looking to run roughshod over Ex's rights, time, etc. I will probably let it go for this year, but it will rear its head again next Summer.
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garnet
journeyman
Reged: 01/02/08
Posts: 51
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Also, since it was raised, I do not plan things that interfere with Ex's time. If anything, I respect his time religiously. There have been many family events that dd has missed because they were scheduled during ex's time and I didn't feel right about infringing on his time with dd. Furthermore, since we are rarely able to come to quick and easy agreements about schedule changes, I usually avoid the conflict altogether by not asking for an accommodation unless it is for something REALLY important.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30195
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How old is she?
" I was never looking to run roughshod over Ex's rights"
Well, how would you define, "Ex is against it, can I send her anyway?" other than running roughshod over his rights?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30195
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"I usually avoid the conflict altogether by not asking for an accommodation unless it is for something REALLY important."
And how many times a year does it become "Really important". That you have said you do it, indicates that it has been done (you rearranged his parenting time for something you wanted). So how many times are we talking about?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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garnet
journeyman
Reged: 01/02/08
Posts: 51
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DD is 9 years old.
The last time I asked ex for a scheduling accommodation was last Summer for my father's 70th birthday (big family party, people came in from all over the country for it). He did not give me an accommodation. So I request once every year or two. Is that excessive in your book?
My original inquiry was to ascertain my rights (and conversely, his). If the answer is that I am not legally entitled to make that judgment call, I would accept that. I might not be happy about it and would still try to persuade Ex otherwise, but I would accept it. Therefore, no, I would not consider that an attempt to run roughshod over ex's rights.
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