lojac999
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My wife and I have been divorced for roughly two months. We have joint custody. I have our children two weeknights and every other weekend, while she has them three weeknights and every other weekend. Holidays follow the standard order of visitation for our state, which is Arkansas. I also voluntarily agreed to pay her $600 a month in child support, even though I would not have been ordered to pay anything under joint custody. My question regards my ex's intent to move out of state in approximately 2 years, so she can attend graduate school.
A little bit of history: We have two daughters...aged 8 and 6. When we first started to divorce, while we were separated, she had a complete mental breakdown while our children were with her...she left one of them at home alone and took the other two (one was a cousin who was visiting) to burger king. She acted crazy at burger king and was arrested and charged with endangerment of a minor. The court ruled that she was mentally incompetent at the time and did not pursue prosecution for this charge. Instead she was hospitalized for several weeks in a mental facility. When she returned, we renegotiated custody (which had been temporarily granted solely to me, until her mental state could be determined.)
So, we divorced and we share joint custody. Now she is telling me that in two years she will be going to graduate school and intends to take me back to court to fight to remove my custody rights so they can move with her. She will be moving at least 3.5 hours away from the town we live in now, away from all her family, all her friends, all my family, and her entire support system, away from everything and everyone the children have ever known their whole lives. Also, she is chronically ill with Ulcerative Colitis and the doctor has told her that she will likely get colon cancer before she is 40, or will have to have major surgery to remove most of her intestinal tract.
I have never had any history of domestic abuse towards her or the children. I have always been basically the sole breadwinner, with the exception of about 1.5 years while I was in college, where she and I both worked, me part time. I maintain the residence that is in their school district. While we first separated, she went to the prosecuting attorney and filed an order of protection against me, lying and telling them that I had raped her at a date she listed as 3 years ago. (We were married for nearly 10 years, and she lived with me for three years after the alleged rape.)After the court determined that she should be hospitalized, they also ruled to drop the protection order on the grounds of her mental incompetence at the time she filed it.
How likely is is that the court will grant her this custody to take the children with her when she moves?
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ssmom79
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Reged: 06/27/07
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First, it's a possible move and it's two years away. You don't know if she will make it to grad school.
But here is the good news, you have two years to establish a basis for the kids NOT to move, to setup a status quo that would be in the best interests of the children. For example, making sure you spend as much time as possible with them, not missing any visits, being involved in education and after school activities, getting them involved in local activities or groups, and most importantly establishing a good post-divorce relationship with your ex. What you build is a case for them NOT to move. The best way to do that is to make sure you're there.
And even then, it's never a guarantee. I mean you COULD come back to these incidents, but a judge may find sympathy for a woman in crisis and may not look at those incidents as reason to deny the children to move.
It's never black and white.
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lojac999
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Thanks for the reply.
A couple of thoughts.
1) I am trying as hard as I possibly can to establish a good post divorce relationship. She is incredibly angry (not just at me...she is a generally angry person) so that is quite difficult at this moment. I'm hoping she will cool down over time. I am doing everything I can to be respectful and polite. I helped her move all her things to her new home, using my own vehicle, etc...I gave her literally half of my stuff, even half of household items that I had purchased for myself for my new place while we were separated.
2) One of the main reasons I'm worried is because she is completely unpredictable and could decide to try and fight me for custody at a moment's notice. So it's not really a two year thing.
3) I'm having a very hard time understanding what the reasoning would be behind a judge deciding to allow small children to move away from everything they've ever known to live with a chronically ill single mother with no support system.
5) I have spoken with her family about this, and they have told me that they aren't going to support her in any decision that would be harmful to the children. She would have to ask them for the money to hire a lawyer. But they aren't very predictable either. There is a long history of mental illness in her family, her mother in particular has been hospitalized several times, in and out of AA, and in rehab centers, etc...
4) I also forgot to mention that she would be moving in with another woman. I'm not clear about the status of that relationship. I have absolutely no problem with any type of relationships that people want to have...homosexual, heterosexual, whatever. It's not a problem. But would a court see it as a problem?
I guess what I'm asking is this: Wouldn't she have to prove that I was somehow unfit and that getting them away from my custody is in their best interest? Isn't the burden of proof on the party who wants to change custody? Why am I the one who would have to make the case against her?
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lojac999
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Also, another question:
I have an idea that she is going to continue to press this issue until...forever...until they're old enough to decide for themselves. I have seen three divorces in her family, and every time they do anything in their power to see that the children are restricted to as much assess from the father as possible.
Will it ever be possible to put a stop to her attempts to remove my custody?
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ssmom79
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I'll just hit these on a point by point basis:
1) I am trying as hard as I possibly can to establish a good post divorce relationship. She is incredibly angry (not just at me...she is a generally angry person) so that is quite difficult at this moment. I'm hoping she will cool down over time. I am doing everything I can to be respectful and polite. I helped her move all her things to her new home, using my own vehicle, etc...I gave her literally half of my stuff, even half of household items that I had purchased for myself for my new place while we were separated.
----------------> Sounds like you're being civil and open to communication, so just keep up with it because a judge will see you as a cooperative parent and that can play in your favor, as opposed to an angry, resentful parent.
2) One of the main reasons I'm worried is because she is completely unpredictable and could decide to try and fight me for custody at a moment's notice. So it's not really a two year thing.
------------------> And you could do the same thing at any point. So you can either live in fear of what might happen, or you can do the best you can each day until something happens. Are you trying to see if you have a case to file for custody of the children?
3) I'm having a very hard time understanding what the reasoning would be behind a judge deciding to allow small children to move away from everything they've ever known to live with a chronically ill single mother with no support system.
---------------------> Judges are people and subject to the interpretation of cases based on their personal thoughts and feelings...sure they should be objective, but you'll find they are not always that way. Depending on the state and county where your court order is written can help determine the style of judges in your county. Is your county pro Mother? Pro 50/50 for custody?
5) I have spoken with her family about this, and they have told me that they aren't going to support her in any decision that would be harmful to the children. She would have to ask them for the money to hire a lawyer. But they aren't very predictable either. There is a long history of mental illness in her family, her mother in particular has been hospitalized several times, in and out of AA, and in rehab centers, etc...
---------------------> I wouldn't talk to her family about the situation.
4) I also forgot to mention that she would be moving in with another woman. I'm not clear about the status of that relationship. I have absolutely no problem with any type of relationships that people want to have...homosexual, heterosexual, whatever. It's not a problem. But would a court see it as a problem?
----------------------> I would think that would be unlikely.
I guess what I'm asking is this: Wouldn't she have to prove that I was somehow unfit and that getting them away from my custody is in their best interest? Isn't the burden of proof on the party who wants to change custody? Why am I the one who would have to make the case against her?
-----------------------> What she would have to prove is why the children living with her is in their best interests, just like you will have to prove why the children living with you is in their best interests. What determines that depends on a lot of factors. She could attempt to prove you unfit, you could do the same. It comes down to what is best for the kids. Judges don't want to take kids away from active parents and it's always harder to take kids from a parent who's involved and puts up a fight. So, stay involved and fight.
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lojac999
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"Are you trying to see if you have a case to file for custody of the children?"
-------------------->Not at all. I do feel that she may eventually snap again, as there is a history of this type of behavior in her family, and every time I have to be in contact with her, I see signs of how she was acting just before the first incident. What I want, however, as long as she is competent and stable, is for us to both have an equal stake in their lives. Joint custody. I am completely satisfied with the way it is right now. Still, I will absolutely fight for full custody if it becomes apparent that her mental state is in adequate...as in multiple episodes, etc...
"Is your county pro Mother? Pro 50/50 for custody?"
----------------> The county where the divorce was filed, as far as I can tell, is fairly equal in determining best interest. In fact, we had been living in an adjacent county, but I moved in temporarily with my mother while we were initially separated, and my attorney is the one who suggested we file in that county due to more leniency towards fathers from the judges there. However, Arkansas as a whole is generally pro-mother.
"I wouldn't talk to her family about the situation."
--------------------->Yes and I have no intention of further communication with her family. I found out what I needed to know from them.
"I would think that would be unlikely."
------------------->You mean it is unlikely that the court will see her living with another woman in an open lesbian relationship as a problem? Or unlikely that they won't see it as a problem? Like I said, I personally do not have a problem with it, I'm just wondering what the court's opinion might be.
And yes, I do plan to stay active and fight it. If it comes down to it and she takes them, I will continue to fight. I will not lose the relationship I have with my children.
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ssmom79
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You aren't clear of the status of that relationship and I took that to mean you don't know if they're lesbians or friends. No I don't think a court will look at the fact she has a 'roommate' as a determining factor for custody.
Many states are still pro-mother. It's sort of assumed that if Mom goes that the kids go. But things are changing and I believe the relationship you have with the children and their lives can help you 'win' if you find yourself fighting a move. I believe it's harder to separate children from an active and involved parent. So you have a lot on your side. You just have to be prepared.
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elliesmom
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Her only argument for moving the kids will be that losing her is worse than leaving the only home they've ever known and their family.
Obviously she cannot argue (as perhaps you can?) that the children have never been away from her for an extended period of time. That will easily be disputed.
Her case will largely on 2 things:
1. That she is the sole (or best) parent to deal with school. You can dispute this by staying involved, attending conferences, and attempting to resolve any issues that come up. If its relevent for the next two years I would maintain proof of absence/tardies for the dates you have them, vs her. If you have online grades and can monitor HW completion - that too will be helpful. This assumes that you are at least as good as her or better.
2. That she is the best (or sole) parent at dealing with medical issues. The easy way to dispute this is don't let her be the only parent who has ever set foot in a doctor/dentist office. If you can YOU should be the only person who has. Always volunteer.
3. I believe you mentioned that there is at least one daughter? That will be her last point. Dads can't deal with periods and training bras. Which is BS, but I think you can easily dispute this as well. By simply testifying that you don't think this will be an issue (as you are close with your daughter(s) and are not uncomfortable with the topics) and you plan to maintain a close relationship with their LD mom so she will always be there to talk to.
Basically you want YOUR case to be about how you are the superior parent and this is their home. Following the above 2 points as well as keeping your nose clean will get you there. Coaching sports teams, be a club sponsor, volunteer at their school etc. These type of things are all easy demonstrable things that give your girls something valuable to lose if their mom takes them away, which the court generally tries to avoid.
--------------------
Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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lojac999
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Thanks for the reply. To respond to the points you raise:
1) I live in the home that has been their only residence for approximately the last 5 years.
2) This is also the residence that is in the school district that they attend, and the only school they have ever attended.
3) I have a degree in early childhood education. I do not work as a teacher because I really did not like it, but I am still employed with the school district, Now I work at the district's central administrative offices.
4) Yes, I plan to maintain as effective relationship with their mother as possible. She is venomous and full of a lot of rage...for whatever reason...I can't figure it out. But I try my best to be cooperative. I do not want to change our custody at all. And really I'm less worried about her ability to cart the kids off with her to god knows where. My main concern is that she will try to take custody from me even when she still lives here. And I'm concerned that she will continue to try over and over again.
I'm wondering what can be done to stop it from constantly repeating.
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lojac999
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And yes, the longest they have ever been away from me is over last christmas, when she came home from the mental facility and she had then for about a week and a half over christmas break.
The longest they've been away from her is basically about a month (5 weeks or so) while she was in jail and then hospitalized.
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