supporter84
recently joined
Reged: 06/25/12
Posts: 15
Loc: Indiana
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The ex texted me his move away date last night. He moves May 30 to WA state. We have not agreed on a new parenting plan. He's making all kinds of promises to the kids about the fun stuff they'll be doing out there. Our kids won't be going out there without the protection of a new parenting plan-atty said not to let them.
It's a mess, and I'm frustrated over his selfishness. I'm angry that he's making promises he can't keep, and the kids will be the ones paying the price. This whole thing has been dragging on for 7-8 months. Idk any more...
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30354
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First thing, calm down. The REASON he is moving is moot. He is moving. He should and probably will be responsible for transportation costs.
"He's making all kinds of promises to the kids about the fun stuff they'll be doing out there."
Now I want you to be REASONABLE when you consider this; when you are contemplating CHANGE, and addressing it to the KIDS, don;t you USUALLY accentuate the positive? Would it REALLY make you happy if all he talked about was the NEGATIVE stuff and how MISERABLE it will be?
"Our kids won't be going out there without the protection of a new parenting plan-atty said not to let them."
Your lawyer is an IDIOT. If the NEW parenting plan is not in place, then the OLD order takes precedence, and the OLD order's time frames are in place. If there was NO order in place, I would agree with you. But there IS an old order in place, and it will be in effect.
"It's a mess, and I'm frustrated over his selfishness."
Well, We do not know WHY he is moving, but not all moves are for SELFISH reasons.
"I'm angry that he's making promises he can't keep"
See, THIS confuses me. He is making promises that they will DO stuff, and they will have FUN. Which of these do you KNOW, for a FACT that he will not be fufilling?
"and the kids will be the ones paying the price."
Only if he doesn't keep the promises.
"This whole thing has been dragging on for 7-8 months. Idk any more..."
Hate to tell you, my divorce and custody battle took three years. 7-8 months is EXTREMELY short.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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supporter84
recently joined
Reged: 06/25/12
Posts: 15
Loc: Indiana
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Our divorce has been final for 3 yrs. I have sole physical, and we share joint legal. He's moving to get married. On paper, he doesn't have overnights, he had supervised visits when the decree was signed.
My atty said not to let them go because we do not agree on transportation costs. He wants me to help pay the costs of flying them from IN to WA. Not going to happen unless a judge orders it. He won't budge, and neither will I. Until that is settled, the kids stay put. He'll pay their way out, but expects me to pay to fly them back.
He's expressed that with his "new" family, I am no longer needed to be mom. He's found a "perfect" woman to take my place. No way the kids go without a new plan, with built in consequences should he fail to return the kids. It is for the kids protection.
Do I want him to stress the down side to the kids? No. I do want him to stop making promises that he cannot keep right now. He has not said a word to me about the dates he would want them, told them it will be all summer break.
I'm tired of dealing with him, and cleaning up the emotional messes he makes with the kids. I just want what's best for them. They need their dad. Based on his statements and actions, there needs to be boundaries set in stone.
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c_jane
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/06/07
Posts: 1759
Loc: In the Great State of Texas
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[quote] This whole thing has been dragging on for 7-8 months. Idk any more... [/quote]
My custody modification THAT WAS AGREED TO BY BOTH PARTIES took 9 months. Family court is not known for moving along quickly.
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John Constantine: God's a kid with an ant farm.... He's not planning anything.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30354
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"I have sole physical, and we share joint legal. He's moving to get married. On paper, he doesn't have overnights, he had supervised visits when the decree was signed."
Okay, kinda confused, you listed NO actions that would warrant supervised visits (drug use, sexual misconduct, etc), yet he STILL has no ordered overnights with the children? What the heck has been going on for three years? How often is he ordered to see them right now, and how often does he ACTUALLY see them?
"He won't budge, and neither will I. Until that is settled, the kids stay put."
That can come back and bite you in the butt. You HAVE a decree that states YOU have sole physical custody. If he fails to return the child, you file KIDNAPPING charges. However, in the abscence of EVIDENCE that he is a poor parent, you are going to have trouble justifying the parenting time you appear to expect.
"He's expressed that with his "new" family, I am no longer needed to be mom. He's found a "perfect" woman to take my place."
And I am SURE you have never said ANYTHING hurtful to HIM< right? It s a DIVORCE, things get said, as long as its not to the kids, let it go.
"Do I want him to stress the down side to the kids? No. I do want him to stop making promises that he cannot keep right now."
So having FUN and ENJOYING the time there can't be DISCUSSED until YOU get your parenting time order? You are REALLY coming across as a control freak.
"He has not said a word to me about the dates he would want them, told them it will be all summer break."
Oh, I was right, you ARE a control freak. Yes, under MOST states long distance parenting plans, he will get MOST of the summer, ALL of extended breaks from school (spring break, long weekends, etc). You want him to discuss SPECIFIC dates with you. You are in a COURT CASE, he shouldn't be discussing ANYTHING with you, you are NOT the SOLE parent.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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supporter84
recently joined
Reged: 06/25/12
Posts: 15
Loc: Indiana
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In our temp orders, he had EOW/midweek time. Due to domestic violence and sexual molestation of our daughter (maybe our son)while in his care, he got supervised time (because of statements he made to DCS). He was still on supervised time when the decree was signed. He needed to fulfill the courts requirements (addictions counseling)before he could have overnights again. All we needed to do was sign a stipulated order and file it with the court and everything would be official. He completed the counseling, and with the GAL approval we went back to the original parenting time. I told him he could draw the paperwork up, I'd sign it and we could get it filed with the court. He hasn't done so, that was 2 1/2 yrs ago. He still has EOW/midweek time and exercises that.
What you say and what my atty says are completely different. Since she knows my state's laws, and knows all the back story, I'm going to trust what she says. She has never steered me wrong.
I know what our states guidelines are for long distance parenting time. I memorized them as soon as he said he would be moving. For any summer parenting time, he is supposed to let me know what dates he wants with the kids by April 1. I do not think it is unfair to know dates so I can makes plans with the kids when they are here.
There's a lot of history that I am not going into. There is a history of abuse. He admitted to it in open court, then changed his story when the investigation of the molestation came around. The kids were on the receiving end of it, as well as I.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30354
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"He completed the counseling, and with the GAL approval we went back to the original parenting time. I told him he could draw the paperwork up, I'd sign it and we could get it filed with the court. He hasn't done so, that was 2 1/2 yrs ago. He still has EOW/midweek time and exercises that."
So let me understand this. He HAD supervised parenting time, fufilled the requirements, but the STANDING orders that are in effect now, have him with SUPERVISED parenting time, but you have been allowing EOW and a midweek, correct?
Well, BECAUSE you have allowed parenting time OUTSIDE of the current order, you are going to have a REAL hard time claiming you now WON'T go outside the order (ie, allowing him to see the kids long distance). You are claiming he will fail to return them. You can only LEGALLY make that claim if he has done so in the past, or has done something to INDICATE that he will refuse to return them. As he HAS returned them, you do not have a legal leg to stand on.
"he is supposed to let me know what dates he wants with the kids by April 1. I do not think it is unfair to know dates so I can makes plans with the kids when they are here."
Okay, PLEASE tell me that you don't think a court is going to hold him to the April 1st deadline when he isn't MOVING until May 30th?
"There is a history of abuse. He admitted to it in open court, then changed his story when the investigation of the molestation came around. The kids were on the receiving end of it, as well as I."
Well, you MIGHT want to TELL people that. And honestly, I don't believe you. When a person has been abused, or their CHILDREN have been abused, it is FOREMOST and IN FRONT on their mind. There was NO mention of the abuse until I pointed out that you were being unreasonable.
An abused person, and a person who has had their children abused by someone DOES NOT volutarily increase the ABUSERS time with the children. I know this, because MY ex abused our children, was ordered to take classes, and file paperwork. She refused to take the class, then she finally took the class, then she refused to file the paperwork. I GLADLY, per my court order, DENIED her parenting time until she fufilled the requirements. And I did NOT reinstate her parenting time UNTIL the judge ORDERED me to do so.
Sorry, calling BS on your story.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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supporter84
recently joined
Reged: 06/25/12
Posts: 15
Loc: Indiana
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I brought up abuse when you asked this.
"Okay, kinda confused, you listed NO actions that would warrant supervised visits (drug use, sexual misconduct, etc), yet he STILL has no ordered overnights with the children? What the heck has been going on for three years? How often is he ordered to see them right now, and how often does he ACTUALLY see them?"
The abuse of me stopped when I filed for a restraining order, police reports in hand. He stopped with the kids because he was under a magnifying glass. The sexual abuse was at the hands of ex's brother, while in ex's care. Abuse I haven't worried about in a while since there have been no bruises on the butts. The brother is not allowed to around the kids until they reach 18 yrs of age-court ordered. The abuse aspect has been dealt with, why would I bring it up first.
He has indicated that he will keep the kids out with him and his gf. He has indicated he will refuse to fly them back, which I responded they won't be going out if he cannot show proof of round trip tickets. He will not provide that because he wants me to pay for half the cost. We're in a stalemate, and I refuse to take responsibility for it. He and I both know he is responsible for the costs of transportation. He is voluntarily moving, to get married.
Local or long distance, the April 1 applies. Whether he's already there or just getting out there, he has to have some idea of what dates he would like. I didn't say it needs to be set in stone, but a heads up or discussion is not out of line.
I really don't care that you don't believe the abuse. You're a stranger, and have no knowledge except what I have provided. It doesn't matter to me. I know what me and the kids have been through. So, keep twisting words and looking for ways to try to trip me up.
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2018
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[quote]Your lawyer is an IDIOT. [/quote]
BAER.
Her lawyer is more familiar with the laws in her state and her case than an internet stranger (this would be everyone on this board, including you) is.
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2018
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[quote]"He's expressed that with his "new" family, I am no longer needed to be mom. He's found a "perfect" woman to take my place."
And I am SURE you have never said ANYTHING hurtful to HIM< right? It s a DIVORCE, things get said, as long as its not to the kids, let it go.[/quote]
Actually, that could, what did you say in your post? Oh, that's right, it could end up biting HIM in the butt. Especially if he put it in writing.
To the OP: If he did put it in writing, file it away for any future custody issues. It shows that he is not willing to work with you and in fact, wants to cut you out of the kids' life.
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2018
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You said:
He has indicated that he will keep the kids out with him and his gf. He has indicated he will refuse to fly them back,
My response:
Is that in writing? Having written proof in court is better than a he said she said scenario.
You said:
which I responded they won't be going out if he cannot show proof of round trip tickets.
My response:
Be sure that the tickets indicate that they are non-refundable. Otherwise, he can get the ticket and then get a refund for them as soon as he shows them to you.
Another thing that I would ask for is that if you end up having to pay for the return trip, that he has to reimburse you and that the amount is considered child support and to be collected by the same agency that collects child support.
You said:
He will not provide that because he wants me to pay for half the cost.
My response:
A court may or may not split the costs. Since he is moving for the sole reason of getting married, I would fight hard not to be penalized by his move.
You said:
We're in a stalemate, and I refuse to take responsibility for it. He and I both know he is responsible for the costs of transportation. He is voluntarily moving, to get married.
My response:
A court will eventually resolve this issue. In the meantime, stick to your guns. If he can't provide proof of a non refundable return ticket, then the kids don't go.
You said:
Local or long distance, the April 1 applies. Whether he's already there or just getting out there, he has to have some idea of what dates he would like. I didn't say it needs to be set in stone, but a heads up or discussion is not out of line.
My response:
A court won't hold him the 4/1 deadline. But until you get the transportation and parenting plan in place, then the current parenting plan is in place. And since there are no overnights, he's going to have to come out to see them. At his own expense.
You said:
I really don't care that you don't believe the abuse. You're a stranger, and have no knowledge except what I have provided. It doesn't matter to me. I know what me and the kids have been through. So, keep twisting words and looking for ways to try to trip me up.
My response:
He treats most women this way. Especially ones who dare to disagree with him. Do you know how to put a poster on ignore?
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2018
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[quote]So let me understand this. He HAD supervised parenting time, fufilled the requirements, but the STANDING orders that are in effect now, have him with SUPERVISED parenting time, but you have been allowing EOW and a midweek, correct?
Well, BECAUSE you have allowed parenting time OUTSIDE of the current order, you are going to have a REAL hard time claiming you now WON'T go outside the order (ie, allowing him to see the kids long distance).[/quote]
No, she's not. A judge is going to go by what the COURT ORDER states. The judge may change the court order at the time (and probably will put a long-distance parenting plan in place and address transportation costs). But she can't be held in contempt for following the court order. Period.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30354
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"A judge is going to go by what the COURT ORDER states."
And, as usual, you are WRONG. There is a thing called status quo and setting a PRECEDENT. THAT is why you have to be EXTREMELY careful what you do when you are working under no, or temporary orders.
"But she can't be held in contempt for following the court order. Period."
Well, if CONTEMPT is the ONLY thing you are avoid, you would be correct. However the OPINION of your ATTITUDE to the judge is EXTREMELY important, and just because he cannot find you in contempt, does not mean that he or she cannot penalize you in ANOTHER manner (finding in the other parties favor, more/less time, etc) based on their opinion of your actions.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2018
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As usual, you are wrong.
Status quo went out the window the minute he moved. Where status quo would have helped is if he remained where he was and the OP decided to follow the court order. Or decided to move the kids out of state.
But she did neither.
A judge ISN'T going to hold her in contempt for following the ONLY existing court order.
And it is very unlikely a judge is going to find her actions unreasonable when all she is requesting is that a parenting plan be put in place and that HE PROVIDE PROOF of a return ticket.
And, as she has mentioned, her attorney has told her to follow the existing court order. Her attorney knows more about her state's laws and how a judge will rule than you do.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30354
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"Status quo went out the window the minute he moved."
The status quo set has NOTHING to do with location. It has to do with her willingness to agree to custody outside the time in the order. She simply CANNOT stand in front of a judge and say, "Your honor, I will not let him have time outside of the order, because I do not trust him. Of course, I have, for the last three years, allowed him to have time outside of the order, and he has done nothing wrong."
"And it is very unlikely a judge is going to find her actions unreasonable when all she is requesting is that a parenting plan be put in place and that HE PROVIDE PROOF of a return ticket."
SO when she tells the judge on the court date of MAY 30th that she will notgive Dad any SUMMER time because he didn't have his REQUEST in by APRIL 1ST, do you think THAT will sound unreasonable?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2018
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Whether you like it or not, when the parents can't agree, the fall back is the COURT ORDER. You can talk until you are blue in the face, but that doesn't change the fact that a judge will not hold it against her for following the court order. In anyway given that he MOVED and created a distance that is going to require a long distance parenting plan and is refusing to provide proof of a return ticket. BTW, requesting proof of a non refundable return ticket is reasonable.
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BeachBabeRN
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 3049
Loc: VA for 21 years, NC forever!
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Depending on the cost of the ticket, he can show it to her....and then not use it. You can change non-refundable tickets -- for a fee -- I wouldn't consider this adequate proof of anything.
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c_jane
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/06/07
Posts: 1759
Loc: In the Great State of Texas
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[quote]SO when she tells the judge on the court date of MAY 30th that she will notgive Dad any SUMMER time because he didn't have his REQUEST in by APRIL 1ST, do you think THAT will sound unreasonable? [/quote]
I believe she said the April 1 deadline was ALREADY in place for his visitation. OR that it would be applicable whether LD or not. I know it is in Texas. My Ex's wife always had to let him know by April 1 when she wanted the kids for the summer, and he had to inform her of same.
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John Constantine: God's a kid with an ant farm.... He's not planning anything.
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c_jane
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/06/07
Posts: 1759
Loc: In the Great State of Texas
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[quote] The status quo set has NOTHING to do with location. It has to do with her willingness to agree to custody outside the time in the order. She simply CANNOT stand in front of a judge and say, "Your honor, I will not let him have time outside of the order, because I do not trust him. Of course, I have, for the last three years, allowed him to have time outside of the order, and he has done nothing wrong." [/quote]
AND she continues, "NOW Ex- is moving out of state and has told me he will keep the kids when they get there (shows proof) and THAT is why I no longer trust him"
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John Constantine: God's a kid with an ant farm.... He's not planning anything.
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supporter84
recently joined
Reged: 06/25/12
Posts: 15
Loc: Indiana
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Some things have been misunderstood, so I will clarify.
1) We have no court date at this time. The ex is moving from IN to WA on May 30. The ex desperately wants to stay out of court. He has pissed our judge off the few times we have been in court.
2) I expressed my frustration over not being able to make plans for this summer. No where, and in no way did I say the kids could not go out to WA because the ex didn't get me his dates by April 1. I said I want a new parenting plan in place, and that he provide proof of return before they go out.
Sorry, but I'm not the ex-nj from hell that many here have to deal with. I have never even threatened to withhold the kids from my ex, while he cannot say the same. His goal in life is to get custody somehow so he can make me beg to see the kids. Wish I had that one in email. I have been able to get him to email me a few times this year instead of texting. He doesn't like emailing because the emails can be used in court.
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