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JustMeAndThree
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Here's another moral vs. legal debate:
      #259826 - 07/10/07 12:19 PM

Ok, a little history for those who don't know. I kept tax return, paid off one debt of $3k (in stbx name only) used rest to move my kids and I into our own place (verbal/physical abuse situation). Couple months later stbx gets back pay from GI Bill...buys truck and spends rest of money. Then he gets another payment from GI bill money, pays a whopping $200 towards the $6k credit card (in stbx name only)I have not paid towards credit card in several months. He has paid me $50 since Feb 5th and I barely make ends meet as it is so I've elected not to pay on the credit card until I can get some CS and can afford to. He calls me the other day and says he got the credit card bill. I had agreed to pay half of it and he wanted to know how we were going to work that. He doesn't know that I know about the money he's gotten so I just told him we'd figure it out later. I can't believe he had the brass cajones to ask me that considering he hasn't been helping support his kids. Thoughts? Opinions?

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Goodmom
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Re: Here's another moral vs. legal debate: [Re: JustMeAndThree]
      #260158 - 07/10/07 08:07 PM

Quote:

Ok, a little history for those who don't know. I kept tax return, paid off one debt of $3k (in stbx name only) used rest to move my kids and I into our own place (verbal/physical abuse situation). Couple months later stbx gets back pay from GI Bill...buys truck and spends rest of money. Then he gets another payment from GI bill money, pays a whopping $200 towards the $6k credit card (in stbx name only)I have not paid towards credit card in several months. He has paid me $50 since Feb 5th and I barely make ends meet as it is so I've elected not to pay on the credit card until I can get some CS and can afford to. He calls me the other day and says he got the credit card bill. I had agreed to pay half of it and he wanted to know how we were going to work that. He doesn't know that I know about the money he's gotten so I just told him we'd figure it out later. I can't believe he had the brass cajones to ask me that considering he hasn't been helping support his kids. Thoughts? Opinions?




Keep a spreadsheet of how you used the tax refunds and keep a spreadsheet of when he got the extra money and the new stuff he got when he did.

And use that in the settlement as grounds to have him take on more of the debt. An example, he would take on an additional amount that would equal half of all the extra money that he got.

Have you gone to court to get child support set up? I would ask to have it garnished.


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Redlegg
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Re: Here's another moral vs. legal debate: [Re: Goodmom]
      #260207 - 07/10/07 09:27 PM

Legally, you are both wrong, you are not paying what was agreed/ordered/legally entitled to be paid, the debt and the tax return and the child support. I would tell him straight up that you are not paying the credit card, but you will consider CS in the amount you would have paid to be current. For example, if you would have paid 100.00 on the credit card, then you consider 100.00 paid for CS.

Morally you are both wrong, you have decided to punish him for his wrong doings, not your job, you decided to keep a tax return that was legally both of yours. You could have told him you are keeping the tax return and will consider his half as CS paid to you, but you did not do that, you kept it. Exactly what backpay are you talking about? Was the money paid by you as a couple when you were married( for his education costs) and you are getting reimbursed, or is this money that was never payed by the VA, and owed him and finally paid.

You should keep a spreadsheet of all the extra money, the extra money he got, and the extra money you got.

Definitely go to CSE and get his pay garnished or whatever you can do, he owes that and obviously he doesn't seem to want to pay, is there court ordered CS and if not get it done immediately.

I don't think you were so much wrong for keeping the tax money, for not giving him credit for his half is wrong.


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JustMeAndThree
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Re: Here's another moral vs. legal debate: [Re: Redlegg]
      #260312 - 07/11/07 07:55 AM

Thanks for the comments. There is no support order in place at this point. We have our rule nisi hearing on August 13th, that will be our first court date. The Gi bill was paid for out of his paycheck during our marriage. It's money that's supposed to help him pay for college but since he works for the sheriffs dept they are paying it to him as on the job training. The back pay was for the time he was working while they waited for all the paper work to go through. Part of that time we were together, part we werent'.

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Karen1
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Re: Here's another moral vs. legal debate: [Re: JustMeAndThree]
      #261916 - 07/14/07 01:26 PM

Bit off topic.. your stbx is verbally and physically abusive and works for teh sheriff's dept. Please tell me he is a civilian employee and NOT a deputy.

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1004SRS
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Re: Here's another moral vs. legal debate: [Re: JustMeAndThree]
      #262032 - 07/14/07 05:19 PM

Legally without being ordered to pay CS, he's not required to do it. BTDT.

Morally..hmmm. Is that someplace you want to go. You are watching for indirect signs of sexual abuse. Talking to a counselor about your kids (age appropriate) behavior. You took the entire tax refund and used part of it to set up a new household.


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JustMeAndThree
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Re: Here's another moral vs. legal debate: [Re: 1004SRS]
      #262511 - 07/15/07 07:58 PM

Quote:

Legally without being ordered to pay CS, he's not required to do it. BTDT.

Morally..hmmm. Is that someplace you want to go. You are watching for indirect signs of sexual abuse. Talking to a counselor about your kids (age appropriate) behavior. You took the entire tax refund and used part of it to set up a new household.




Morally I feel I have done nothing wrong... I did what I needed to do in order to get my children out of a situation that was unhealthy for them. If that's immorral, then so be it. As for counseling...they are in counseling becuase of behavoir problems from all of the verbal and (some) physical abuse they've endured. And as I've said before I am not LOOKING for signs of sexual abuse but when some disturbs me about my childrens behavoir then by all means i WILL investigate it further. You can find fault with me and tell me how wrong you think I am for all I've done but it won't change the fact that I did what I felt was in the best interests of my children first and foremost. As for what's morally right for him to do, he does more for his brother than he does his own kids. BUT as so many of you seem to miss...I know my stbx loves our kids and deep down he wants what's best for them but he lives in the world his parents created for him....a world where verbal and physical abuse ran rampant. He doesn't understand how detrimental his actions are to these kids. If I could have my way it would be for my husband to get counseling, us to get marriage counseling (i'm already in counseling) and for us to learn how to be better parents together and for our family to be whole again...but since I can not force him into counseling, nor can I fix him I have no choise but to keep my kids away from that situation as much as possible and pray that one day he will come to the realization that he needs some help. His family has a history of mental problems...his step mothers family (his step mom raised him 90% of his life) has a history of diagnosed bipolar disorder...his step mother commited suicide Friday...I went to her viewing tonight and it bothers me how the men in his family are so devoid of emotions. So now not only are my kids dealing with this whole seperation from their father thing but now Nana is no longer in the picture. For those of you who think I'm just a vindictive B!tch you're wrong. I love my husband, I always will but we can not continue to live with him the way he is.


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Redlegg
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Re: Here's another moral vs. legal debate: [Re: JustMeAndThree]
      #262545 - 07/15/07 09:28 PM

I don't think your vindictive at all, you did what you had to, to get your kids out of the situation. Its done, now what is stopping you from giving him credit for his half of the tax return, you could do that and your kids are still out of the situation. I would not have told you to do anything differnt, but you can do something different now. And if all this is above board, why don't you send him the letter about what funds are yours and why, such as the exact numbers from the GI bill, that you offset it by however much and if you are giving him credit for support from the tax return etc. You will do whatever your moral compass allows you to, but it doesn't remove the honesty and accountability. I will never tell you what to do, but you asked about the morality and the legality, and thats the way I see it. Morally, he deserves to know where the money, went, why you kept it, and the whole GI bill offsetting it.

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JustMeAndThree
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Re: Here's another moral vs. legal debate: [Re: Redlegg]
      #262620 - 07/16/07 07:34 AM

In my mind I have given him credit for his half of the tax return. That would have paid his support for approx 3 months given the amount of the CS calculator for GA. that still leaves him 2 months in the hole. Aside from that he's asking me to beging paying on our credit card bill (it is in only his name but I agree that I should pay half since it was used for the family) when he's not helping me out with the kids and I am barely makign ends meet. My feelings on the GI Bill money are that he's gotten enough to have paid off all of that bill he could have atleast paid half but didn't.. he's only paid 400 to it. Second, he bought a truck and sunk a bunch of money into it now he's saying that he has to sell it becuase it's a piece of crap.. he also traded his four wheeler and a few hundred bucks for 2 other vehicles that don't run. But he complains that he can't afford his bills etc. It just bugs me that my children and I are sacrificing a LOT so that I can pay the bills and i JUST got a raise in pay for where i'm making only 62 cents an hour LESS than him but I pay out almost twice as much in bills as he does. Then there's the soft side of me...my two girls have birthdays this coming weekend and I was going to ask him to pay half the expenses for their combined party but with his step-mother commiting suicide I feel guilty about asking him...That's probably why he isn't helping me much becuase i'm not putting my foot down and holding him accountable other than in my head.

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Redlegg
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Re: Here's another moral vs. legal debate: [Re: JustMeAndThree]
      #262855 - 07/16/07 03:21 PM

And that may be the perfect solution legally and morally, but what about him knowing? Does he have a right to know how you figured the whole deal? If not, so be it, but if it were me , I would want to know, and take a look and either say ok or talk about it.

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1004SRS
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Re: Here's another moral vs. legal debate: [Re: Redlegg]
      #263108 - 07/17/07 05:55 AM

IMO, you are not in a position to make a moral judgement. You need to be honet with your X about all of the money. Just create a spreadsheet with all the information.

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JustMeAndThree
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Re: Here's another moral vs. legal debate: [Re: Redlegg]
      #263146 - 07/17/07 08:18 AM

Quote:

And that may be the perfect solution legally and morally, but what about him knowing? Does he have a right to know how you figured the whole deal? If not, so be it, but if it were me , I would want to know, and take a look and either say ok or talk about it.




Easier said than done...this man doesn't talk, he argues 90% of the time. When I initiate the discussion anyway. If he brings it up i'll be glad to tell him...but he also doesn't see things for what they are...he thinks he should only have to pay $300 a month support for 2 of the kids and that the take return was all HIS so he shouldn't have to pay support for over a year. So in his mind he's justified in spending all his money on unneccessary things...like the fact that he now has FOUR vehicles he trying to fix up, bought stereo w/ remote for one, bought a surround sound system for his house, camping gear, etc. In my case I had to take out a loan so I could help my mother out in Virginia and buy my girls b'day things and do some repairs to my van.


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JustMeAndThree
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Re: Here's another moral vs. legal debate: [Re: 1004SRS]
      #263148 - 07/17/07 08:20 AM

I have everything, all the receipts anyway..haven't made the spreadsheet yet but honestly I dont think he really wants to know becuase he knows that I haven't blown the money on stupid crap, however he has. If he asks I'll be more than happy to lay it out for him, I will have everything ready for court next month. There isn't much reasoning with this man unless he initiates it.

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Avaya
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Re: Here's another moral vs. legal debate: [Re: JustMeAndThree]
      #264676 - 07/20/07 03:55 PM

I just want to know how she's going to make a spreadsheet of what he has received and spent. She can GUESS all day long about that, but there is no way she 'knows' any of it.

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1004SRS
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Re: Here's another moral vs. legal debate: [Re: Avaya]
      #264753 - 07/20/07 08:23 PM

Don't be rude.

She can create a spreadsheet with the information she has.


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