Laurel
newbie
Reged: 08/14/04
Posts: 39
Loc: California
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A little background...
I moved out of our house last October, he chose to stay in hopes of buying me out.
As the market continued to climb he could no longer afford to do that.
(not that he ever really could to begin with)
So a week ago he moved out of the house he had been paying mortgage on and moved into a rental.
He has been after me to pay 1/2 the mortgage on the house.
My lawyer advised me that since he chose to stay in the house, he gets to pay to maintain it.
His take on it is, he no longer lives there either, so now we both have to pay.
My lawyer says no, that is not the case because he is moving voluntarily.
(He could stay until the house is sold)
Today he tried to give me the keys to the house.
So, I could start the clean up process to get the house on the market.
I wasn't sure what to do, but I told him no.
I was thinking:
a) he cannot be trusted, he's up to something.
b)by excepting the keys to the house, I now am responsible for paying 1/2 the upkeep.
c)he cannot be trusted, he's up to something.
My question is, IF I did accept the keys would I be responsible for paying 1/2 the mortgage??
Sorry for all the stupid questions. :)
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daphyne
journeyman
Reged: 01/20/05
Posts: 90
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Laurel,
Sorry to tell you this but if your name and his name are both on the mortgage then you're both responsible. The mortgage company has an agreement with both of you (or whoever's name is on it if only one) and is not part of the divorce agreement and could care less what the attorney or judge says - they just want their money.
Daphyne
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Laurel
newbie
Reged: 08/14/04
Posts: 39
Loc: California
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I hear what your saying, and thanks for answering so quick.
You guys are great! :)
I know ultimately (like if it were to get down to foreclosure) it is BOTH our
responsibilities.
What I am saying is that he agreed to stay in the house.
He agreed to continue to pay mortgage until it sells.
BOTH attorneys are standing by this.
My question is more about, IF I did accept the keys would I be responsible for *paying* 1/2 the mortgage?
Is this a way of him relinquishing his responsibilities, and making me pay half the mortgage?
Does merely holding keys and having access to the property make me financially responsible?
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daphyne
journeyman
Reged: 01/20/05
Posts: 90
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[quote] Does merely holding keys and having access to the property make me financially responsible? [/quote]
The only way, (that I know of) you're not going to be responsible for paying the mortgage, whether it be half full or otherwise is if your name isn't on the mortgage. From what you're posting here, I'm guessing both names are on it. I just read something about names being on a mortgage in another post here the other day and something was mentioned about refinancing to get a name off the mortgage and another way - can't remember what it was though - I'll have to go looking.
Until it sells and the lender gets their money, they are not part of the divorce settlement, agreement, etc. They are not part of what he agreed to with both attorney's and you. They have a binding contract with you and your STBX. Therefore, whether or not you have keys to the property, if your name is on the mortgage you're still responsible.
For instance, person "a" co-signs a loan for person "b". Person "b" doesn't follow through with the payments or falls behind, the lender will seek payment from person "a" whether or not person "a" has posession of the said property be it a car, house, etc.
Whose ever name is on the loan is responsible.
Another instance, I kept the house. While I filed a quitclaim deed taking him off the title of the house I can't afford to refinance at this time to get my ex's name off the loan. Even though he doesn't reside here anymore, doesn't have keys to the house, if I were to fall behind in payments he would also still be held responsible because his name is still listed on the loan.
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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G'day Laurel...lets see if I have this right. You know you are legally responsible to the mortgage company regardless of any side deals. The real Q here..is since he agreed to this and both attorneys agreed would accepting the keys be a good idea...the answer to that is NO.
Your attorney is trying..and it appears successfully and it has been agreed to by both attorneys.. to have him pay the mortgage payments until it sells. Though this agreement wont remove your ultimate responsibility to the mortgage company..it will help you in the long run as far as settlement.
What I mean by this is...lets say mortgage is 2k a month...it takes 6 months to sell which equals 12k. He makes a payment for 3 months and then only pays his "half" or 3k..you step in and make the other 3k. You will get this 3k back in the final settlement based on the original agreement. Acceptance of those keys "may" void that agreement. Does this help?
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Laurel
newbie
Reged: 08/14/04
Posts: 39
Loc: California
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**You know you are legally responsible to the mortgage company regardless of any side deals.**
Yes, I know this!! :)
I have no way of making any portion of that mortgage payment, and he knows this.
(The kids and I are hand to mouth as it is)
I am afraid he is trying to put me in a position of HAVING to come up with a portion of the mortgage.
Even though he left the house voluntarily to secure a rental 3 blocks from me.
He could have stayed in the house another 2-3 months until it sold, and there wouldn't have been a problem.
He told me two weeks ago that he would do whatever it took "legally, illegally, moral or immoral to make sure he won this" (in reference to him not paying the full mortgage)
He even offered to burn the house down! *rolls eyes*
He's doing what he can to scare and manipulate me.
I was sure when he tried to hand me the keys there must have been some kind of a hook.
The only thing I could think of is that if I held the keys (that he took away from me) to the house that it would somehow make me responsible for a portion of the mortgage.
As it is now (between us and the lawyers) I left the house, I have no access to the house, he pays the mortgage, he can live there.
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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(quote) As it is now (between us and the lawyers) I left the house, I have no access to the house, he pays the mortgage, he can live there. (quote)
You still do NOT want to accept those keys. Both attorneys know this agreement was made. Best case scenaro... house sells before it forecloses...but 3 payments not made. You will not get half of this back as you didnt pay..what you can ask for and get..is any equity those payments would have created. Worst case scenario...they foreclose and then you go after what would have been your share of the equity had it sold. The fact that it isnt his inability to pay but HIS decision to move to an apartment will only strengthen your case.
Another word of advise..get a hand held voice activated tape recorder and get the ARSE to repeat things like this on tape... and then immediately give them to your attorney DO NOT tape phone conversations as California is a 2 party consent state.
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Laurel
newbie
Reged: 08/14/04
Posts: 39
Loc: California
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Can I just carry you around in my back pocket instead?!! :)
You rock!!
He did actually tape one or 50 of our conversations, all of them would make him look like the moron he is.
As soon as he starts to make one of his threats (these last ones about burning my stuff and the house was made in front of the kids!! <insert look of shock here>) I go home and e mail my lawyer. They both have already caught him in a few lies, so my written documentation has been effective.
Although I do have a little mini disc recorder that he bought me. *grin*
I think the house will sell before we get to foreclosure, it's in a real hot market, and it's a nice house!
You got it right when you said "his inability to pay" he is using the $60,000.00 he took out of the equity of the home the week I filed. He did this mind you, without my knowledge or consent. Then turned around and lied to his lawyer about it!
He just sent me an e mail that tells me I have full access to the house. (well good but I don't have the keys!! Dumb @$$) and he has left a great deal of community property items behind that he didn't want. He tells me that I can go in and get these items and to leave him a list of what I took.
Again I am suspicious.
He is putting me in a position of entering a house I have no right to enter(?) and taking things out of it.
That just doesn't feel right.
My lawyer must hate monday mornings!
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sugarb
enthusiast
Reged: 12/16/04
Posts: 375
Loc: In the Heartland on America
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I don't blame you for being suspicious and I don't envy your current situation. I divorced a man just like this and you really are doing this right. You've got to assume that any behavior that appears an olive branch is really an attempt to trick you. My ex always had ulterior motives for everything he did, as well. I didn't look deeper into such behaviors and just assumed he was being considerate. Come to find out it was all a trick and everything he did that seemed nice and considerate was complete manipulation. I won't go into details, but you are wise to question EVERYTHING.
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Laurel
newbie
Reged: 08/14/04
Posts: 39
Loc: California
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Thanks Sugarb! I needed to hear that!
Somehow it's comforting to know I am not the only one who has dealt with a person of this caliber.
Through out this whole thing I have played by the rules.
I hate being in a situation where I don't trust, but the stakes are high.
Sometimes I feel like I am being overly paranoid.
But I'd guess I'd rather look like that than be taken to the cleaners.
I just fired off a quick note to my lawyer, we'll see what she has to say.
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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(quote) Can I just carry you around in my back pocket instead?!! :) (quote)
My hell luv..going to make me blush you are...lol
As to the rest...your STBX appears to be like my friends STBX...thinks he's the brightest..and in fact is just the opposite...in reality luv..I will tell you the same thing I told my friend. If he isnt going to play fair then as hard as it is...be glad he is a halfwit. This will only help you in the long run. She has won every battle so far.
The fact that his own attorney has caught him in lies..is not going to help him..though attorneys are of course in it for money..no attorney wants to walk into a courtroom and be caught with his daks down...and no client is worth their reputation.
My suggestion: Compose a response to his postie...advising him that per the agreement between all parties..the responsibility of the house is and remains his and you feel it would be in violation of the agreement to enter this house for any reason. In addition you have no means of doing so as he retains all keys. In closing, since it was his choice and decision to vacate the property, you will hold him personally responsible for any items stolen or missing.
Now this is the important part. Compose...do NOT send...send a copy to your attorney and ask if you can send. Yoour attorney will either say no..yes...or tell you to add or delete. Attorneys charge less if they dont have to write letters themselves. I suggest you do not just ignore..but based on the games he is playing do not just respond to this or anything else without first clearing it with your attorney.
And start taping..
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Laurel
newbie
Reged: 08/14/04
Posts: 39
Loc: California
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and the answer is....
*drum roll please*
You are not accepting responsibility for the house payments by taking a key. You have as much right to access to the house as he has. *grin*
Who woulda thunk it??
Now at least I can go get some of the stuff I wanted.
<quote>If he isnt going to play fair then as hard as it is...be glad he is a halfwit<end quote> **words to live by!!** :)
Thanks for everything!!
I am sure I'll have another in my long list of stupid questions coming soon.
I get to see him again on Wednesday... *rolls eyes*
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sugarb
enthusiast
Reged: 12/16/04
Posts: 375
Loc: In the Heartland on America
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Better safe than sorry. Good thing you asked!
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Laurel
newbie
Reged: 08/14/04
Posts: 39
Loc: California
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exactly! I would rather be caught with my guard up, then my pants down! :)
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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(quote) You are not accepting responsibility for the house payments by taking a key. You have as much right to access to the house as he has. *grin*
I am sure I'll have another in my long list of stupid questions coming soon. I get to see him again on Wednesday... *rolls eyes* (quote)
My hell..that must be some agreement.... I am glad you can get your things..Sorry I didnt give you the right answer..I believe when in doubt... it is always best to safe then sorry later... There are no stupid questions luv...and dont forget your tape recorder Wens..lol
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Laurel
newbie
Reged: 08/14/04
Posts: 39
Loc: California
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{quote}My hell..that must be some agreement.... I am glad you can get your things..Sorry I didnt give you the right answer..I believe when in doubt... it is always best to safe then sorry later... There are no stupid questions luv...and dont forget your tape recorder Wens..lol{/quote}
I hear ya!!
I never would have dreamed THAT answer!
I was floored when I pulled that up!
For the record you all gave me the right answer.
What was said in this thread was what I needed to hear!
(that I am not loosing my cookies!)
*grabs the recorder and hides it in her purse* ;)
I am going out for a beer, anyone with me?? ;)
Edited by Laurel (02/28/05 07:53 PM)
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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(quote) I am going out for a beer, anyone with me?? ;)
(Quote)
have a grog or two for me luv..
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sugarb
enthusiast
Reged: 12/16/04
Posts: 375
Loc: In the Heartland on America
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Laurel, Since it certainly sounds as if you and I will have dealt with a very similar beast, Aussie is right on the money with the recorder. I had to start using the recorder AFTER the fact, to reopen our case and turn over the original decision by the judge. Use my experience to your benefit. Trust nothing, document and record everything. I wish I had from the very beginning.
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Laurel
newbie
Reged: 08/14/04
Posts: 39
Loc: California
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Yes! point well taken.
Picture if you will me picking up and dropping of the kids every week with a mini disc recorder stuffed in my bra! :-)
You should see some of the written documentation I have on this guy!
At times I have had to reread some of it, going back to last year this time, and I tell ya I wonder sometimes how I made it out with most of my sanity still in check! *shutters*
If he says anything good I'll rip it to mp3 and send you all a disc. *grin*
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