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KDogg
journeyman


Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 96
Loc: West Virginia
Update from When To Call It Quits
      #8025 - 01/22/05 10:47 PM

After a couple of weeks of merely coexisting and a few short-lived "discussions", my wife finally wanted to talk about things.

It all started last night when I was writing a letter. I wouldn't tell her who it was to when she asked, so later she asked me which one I wanted - her or my Ex. Flustered at such a suggestion I responded with "Neither one of ya" and went to sleep.

So today she wanted to talk. She apologized for her mistakes and messing around and said that she would work on that and not do it anymore. I asked her why she always accused me of messing around when she was the one actually doing it, but never got a straight answer. She apologized for being jealous of me talking to my Ex - even though we have a kid together - saying it was because she knows how Ex is. I asked her to explain the times she accused me of messing around when I was at school or on a school trip, but again, no straight answer.

Things led into a discussion about trust I told her that for whatever reason she couldn't trust me even though she knew I wasn't doing anything wrong, and that there was no way I could trust her again with all the wrongs she has done over the duration of our relationship.

Sensing that she could get nowhere on these topics, she then dragged in stuff about feeling like a slave in our apartment since she's the only one who ever does anything. But then she turned around and admitted to sitting around and watching too much tv and nothing getting done, and I told her that's why I stopped doing anything. I mean, I would go to work or school for several hours a day, then come home to find the same ol' mess from the morning still there, with more added to it. Occasionally things were done, but nothing significant.

Then it was on to how I did this or that with the kids, or how I would treat one better than the other at times. Her main reference here was that sometimes I would pay more attention to my daughter who I only see every couple of weeks, and although I tried to explain it to her that I only see her 48 hours every two weeks and the others are here 24/7 she never got the point.

Anyway, there wasn't any argument to the deal, simply some discussion on the various topics. She says she doesn't want our marriage to end and that she will work on the problems she has. I told her we had been through this so many times before and nothing ever came of it, and she implied that I never worked on my so-called problems from before.

So now what? I know this is a decision that I will have to make for myself, but for now some input would really give me something to think about. Off the top of my head I can think of five people she has talked to over the years about getting with them, and I have no idea how many she has followed through with or how many others there might be.

Does the trust ever return? I mean, sure, I can say "ok, let's work this out" but it will always be in the back of my head "well, I wonder who's there today..." How many times can one man put up with his wife's extra-curricular activities? A mistake is a mistake and one is bad enough, but the same one over and over... is that a mistake?

Ok, I'm starting to ramble... sorry about the length. I need a vacation...

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KDogg



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Onyx
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Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 816
Loc: Buffalo NY
Re: Update from When To Call It Quits [Re: KDogg]
      #8031 - 01/23/05 05:54 AM

Hi Kdogg... yes, I think that trust can return, IF there is a MAJOR effort on the part of the person who violated the trust to beging with. You ask if you will sit there and wonder who is there. Do you want to sit and wonder what might have been if you tried to let her work on it with you?
If I were in your situation, I would give her one more chance, with the stipulation that THIS is the LAST chance. I dont know your wife (or you for that matter) so this is really, as you said, a decision that you have to make for yourself. I am suspecting that you want to try to make it work, or you wouldnt be here asking. You might even want to try to write up a contract together, of the do's and dont's of your "new" marriage. Any serious violation would void the contract, and you are both then free to go about your merry ways. I would also stipulate that the contract will only be in place for a certain period of time... lets face it, who wants to live under a stringent contract for the rest of their lives.? Make it like a test period contract, then when you guys are done with it, the things on the contract should have become habit, and you could have a nice life. It takes 2- but it looks as though your wife needs to do a little more work than you do. Blessings, Onyx

--------------------
"Don't Make Me Get My Flying Monkeys"


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aussie928
old hand
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Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
Re: Update from When To Call It Quits [Re: KDogg]
      #8034 - 01/23/05 09:25 AM

G'day mate.. I would agree with most of the things Onyx says and would like to add a couple of my own if you dont mind. First off mate...a marriage never ends based on one persons mistakes. It might not be 50/50 in the mistake area it may very well be 90/10 but the fact is no one is faultless. She needs to work on several areas no doubt but you need to now search your soul and admit and change your bad habits as well for this to truely work. I have a friend whos wife moved out when he was at work...he was crushed and said they never fought and she never told him anything was wrong. The story he told was a good one and I felt so sorry for him. About a month later I ran into his STBX and we had coffee. Her side...they never fought as he told her everything that she did wrong and then when she would try to point out his mistakes...his response was "we are talking about your mistakes..not mine" The fact is he would never listen to her...so she finally left. I am not saying this is your situation mate..what I am saying is there are three sides to every story...his..hers..and the truth.

As to the constantly accusing you of cheating. This could be for many reasons. Sometimes people accuse others of what they do as they just expect everyone one else to be capable of doing what they do. Are there ones that cheat just to cheat of course but there are also ones that cheat as they are looking for something they are not getting at home which has nothing to do with sex.

The last issue I would like to address is the paying more attention to your daughter when she is there. I do see your point but I see hers as well. I know the reasons you pay more attention to her and though they make perfect sense...your wife is a mother as well and her first instinct is to look out for her childrens welfare. This is what she is afraid your other wee ones see. Daddy loves us but when X comes to visit he pays more attention to her so he loves her more. Just give that some thought mate.

You need to give this one more shot..BUT you are going to need to learn to forgive "get over it" as it were..if this is going to work. Good luck to you mate...and please keep us posted.


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KDogg
journeyman


Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 96
Loc: West Virginia
Re: Update from When To Call It Quits [Re: Onyx]
      #8165 - 01/25/05 09:25 AM

Thanks for the reply, Onyx. Yes, I know trust can return so long as there is a major effort, as we've been down this road before. This is the 7th or 8th time I've caught her getting with other guys and the third time that we've faced possible seperation and divorce.

As far as a last chance goes, how many "last chances" are allowed in a marriage? The last time we faced this issue was when she brought in the neighbor guy she was seeing, when she was ready to call it quits herself and go with him. I gave her the ultimatum then, to either choose him or choose me. She was prepared to give me custody of the kids, but then I made her think about her medical appointments, medications, and all the other things she was into and made her realize that even if she just lived a building or two over that she would not be coming in any time she pleased and that I wouldn't be running her to all her appointments or paying for her meds. After a few minutes she decided to stick with me, and I told her that if it ever happened again I would not put up with it and get a divorce.

I have been giving things a lot of thought the last few days, especially concerning the kids because I want their lives disrupted as little as possible. The problem is, through all the soul-searching I find that I still love her as the mother of my children, but the love as far as a relationship and marriage is concerned no longer exists. It's more like a marriage of convenience now...

So, I guess I will ride it out a bit longer and see what happens...

--------------------
KDogg



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sparky
enthusiast
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Reged: 11/16/04
Posts: 289
Re: Update from When To Call It Quits [Re: KDogg]
      #8168 - 01/25/05 09:36 AM

7th or 8th time???
Another perspective, I maybe could forgive, but never forget. The idea of the cheating was always there.
Alot will disagree, but I think it's best to end while things are calm. Not wait until the #$@% hits the fan.
If you really believe you can trust again after 7 or 8 times of cheating, then go ahead and "ride it out", but haven't you already "rode it out 7 or 8 times, and where did it get you?


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KDogg
journeyman


Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 96
Loc: West Virginia
Re: Update from When To Call It Quits [Re: aussie928]
      #8169 - 01/25/05 09:37 AM

Thanks for the reply, Aussie. Yes, I know there are mistakes on both sides, and I've heard the "his side, her side, and the truth" theory many times lol. But after giving it much thought, I'm finding that my mistakes were trying to make new friends and trying to go to school and get a degree so we don't have to live below the poverty level all our lives. There is also the fact that at times I give her the cold shoulder or simply don't seem interested, but what else is one to do when they come home from being at school or work (and sometimes both) to find the house a wreck, the kids not fed or bathed, and the wife monitoring every channel available on digital cable? By the time I straightened up the house, fed the kids, bathed them and put 'em to bed, I was exhausted - and still had pages of homework to do.

As for the accusations of cheating, they wouldn't bother me as much if they hadn't all but destroyed my life. I grew up in a boy's ministry at our church and subsequently became a leader there, with a total time of over 22 years being involved. Well, her little "he's sleeping with his ex-gf" when I first got visitation with my other daughter ended that career, as well as an attempt to get involved in the group at another church. And on top of that, people who I thought were friends turned their back on me, and making new friends in such circumstances is nearly impossible. Nobody wants to be accused of sleeping with someone and wrecking their marriage.

I did talk to some other family members about the favoritism issue and yes, it was a legit problem. Not only would I favor my other daughter on visitation weekends, through the week I would sometimes favor one child over another between the two at home. Of course, none of that was intentional, and I've been more careful about it since.

Finally, one cannot forget something they are constantly reminded of. I mean, had this affair been the first, forgiving and forgetting might be possible, but when it's the 7th or 8th time it's hard to forget - and forgive. It's almost like saying "ok, I forgive you this time" and it keeps happening.

I'm gonna ride it out a little longer and see how things really improve, but I doubt the recent good behavior will last very long...

--------------------
KDogg



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aussie928
old hand
***

Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
Re: Update from When To Call It Quits [Re: KDogg]
      #8183 - 01/25/05 11:04 AM

G'day mate...I like your upfront style mate. The fact that you have really done some soul searching about the paying attention to one wee one and just didnt come back with excuse after excuse speaks tons about your character. Now that I know more of the story I'm not sure you can get past 7 or 8 times and not said to hurt you mate but not sure someone that can do this this many times can stop. I really hope you dont take this next comment wrong but I have learned sometimes with people that while we see giving another chance after chance as a good thing they often see it as a sign of weakness. As in he is always making threats he will leave and he never does so I can keep on with this behaviour. I have a good friend thats a shrink and he told me something very interesting and its part of why I finally decided to divorce.

Relationships are a series of patterns. Some good..some not so good. Person A does X..person B reacts to it a certain way...and that pattern continues. Person A is not going to change their pattern. The only way this will change is if you change your reaction and hence the pattern is broken.

I know the thought of leaving your wee ones and perhaps not being a fulltime father has to hurt and we always want to think that the worst thing we can do for a wee one is divorce. I have learned that is not the case. In one of your last post you said that you no longer love her in that way. Perhaps its time to leave mate...you deserve better then this and quite frankly so do your wee ones. Keep us posted and good luck to you mate.


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KDogg
journeyman


Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 96
Loc: West Virginia
Re: Update from When To Call It Quits [Re: aussie928]
      #8244 - 01/26/05 12:21 PM

Just wanted to say thanks, Aussie, and that no offense taken from anything in your post. Of course I will keep everyone updated as to new developments...

--------------------
KDogg



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KDogg
journeyman


Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 96
Loc: West Virginia
Re: Update from When To Call It Quits [Re: KDogg]
      #8276 - 01/27/05 08:56 AM

Relationships are a series of patterns... Well, I've seen two patterns within this week repeat themselves.

Pattern 1 - Lying: My wife asked if I was interested in guys. I asked where that idea came from and she said one of our friends asked, then went on about some gay porn file that she found on the computer. I download files from one of those peer-to-peer sites, so sometimes I get undesired results or hacked files. And since I download several at a time I often let the computer work overnight and I clean out the crud later. So anyway, wife went to play some music and found the file.

As for our friend, I knew there were two possibilities: Either she and her husband was interested in something or my wife was lying about their involvement. I asked our friend about it and she said she never said no such thing. Just as I thought - another lie from my wife.

Pattern 2 - Accusations of cheating: Well, another one of those has come and gone... I got a call from my Ex-Girlfriend last night. The first thing she said was that she didn't want any trouble between me and her but she was tired of my wife's crap. I asked what happened, and she said my wife had called this woman and said a bunch of stuff about me and Ex sleeping together. I spoke to the woman as well, and she was quite livid to be put in such a position and, quite frankly, wanted to know where I lived so she could lay some smackdown on my wife. I told her to cool it because I have kids here and don't need that. I told her I would handle the situation.

Both the woman and my Ex talked to my wife. I made her apologize, but I'm quite certain that it ain't over...

After I hung up the call, I looked at my wife and said "I think you better start explaining." She said she was walking around the block in my mom's neighborhood, and when she got to that woman's house a girl was sitting on the porch. The girl approached my wife and told her that she saw my Ex and I getting it on in the back of Ex's car.

This was the first I'd heard of it and asked when it was to have happened. We were supposed to have done it this past Monday, when I was supposed to be getting my daughter for visitation. Well, I had cancelled visitation because of the weather and because I had to take my mother somewhere, so I never even saw Ex that day. Actually, I haven't seen her since last Friday...

But of course the accusations came. She kept asking me and/or accusing me of sleeping with my Ex, refusing to believe me no matter what I said. So basically, regardless of the truth, she would rather believe some stranger than her own husband. We all know that's not gonna work.

So, that's the latest... There's more to the argument but this is the main issue. I guess we all know what's next, so I'll post developments as they come.

--------------------
KDogg



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daphyne
journeyman


Reged: 01/20/05
Posts: 90
Re: Update from When To Call It Quits [Re: KDogg]
      #8303 - 01/27/05 08:37 PM

KDogg,

I've followed this post and well, here's my two cents worth! lol

1. Lying - they tell a lie, tell another to cover the first and the next thing you know, it's this big complicated web of nothing but lies. To the point that the person telling the lies, ends up not remembering what they lied about, and get caught in their own web. I dealt with this for 10 years - you can alway tell when they are lying - some little quirk they have - can't look you in the eye or are jittery, etc.

2. Cheating issue: I've found two things from experience: a. they are insecure or b. they are the one that is actually cheating. Don't know that either of these are the issue(s) at hand in your case - just know that's what's happened here.

3. Games - sounds like she's playing "mind games" - pushing your buttons, etc.

I feel for you...hang in there! Daphyne


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KDogg
journeyman


Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 96
Loc: West Virginia
Re: Update from When To Call It Quits [Re: daphyne]
      #8308 - 01/28/05 07:40 AM

Daphyne, thanks for your reply.

Yes, she often lies - and nine times outta ten she gets tangled in such a web. I almost love catching her in a big one because it's so funny watching her try to get out of it.

As for the cheating part, she suffers from both. She's always had this insecurity thing going on but no matter what I did to help her with it she still felt the need to seek out "second opinions". I think the accusations of me cheating were just her way of justifying to herself that what she was doing was ok.

As for games, yeah, she likes to play them - she's just not that good. It probably wouldn't be so bad if there was at least a challenge, lol.

Right now I'm just keeping a low profile because we have some other issues that need to be dealt with first, but once that's over I'm outta here.

Thanks again...

--------------------
KDogg



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KDogg
journeyman


Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 96
Loc: West Virginia
Re: Update from When To Call It Quits [Re: sparky]
      #8309 - 01/28/05 07:45 AM

Hey, just wanted to let you know I didn't overlook ya...

As for riding it out, like I said before, we have some other major issues to deal with first, so unless something extreme happens between now and then I'm keeping a low profile on this mess.

No, trust will never return so far as I'm concerned. Wife and I had this discussion a few days ago and everything seemed to at least be calm on the surface, but the turbulance underneath was just too great. That's when all the stuff about my ex-girlfriend started again. She knows I have to talk to her sometimes regarding my daughter, and sometimes ex and I just chit-chat in general. Anyway, she asked me if ex and I were fooling around but won't believe me when I say no (and that is the truth, no fooling around).

So no, trust will never return to this relationship...

--------------------
KDogg



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