Relayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 9506
Loc: Moorglade Mover
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Quote:
You, Relayer, and googledad really need to get a life for it seems that you spend a great deal of your time on here insulting people and pretending you know the laws. All 3 of you need to grow up.
We aren't pretending Boogie. While laws vary somewhat from state to state, they are all pretty much the same when it comes to custody. It's whatever is in the best interest of the child as determined by the court. And as most people on this board (not just us three) have years or decades of experience in the courts, you might want to listen to what everyone is telling you. Jeez, even some people I consider "unreasonable" in terms of the kids have told you that your scheme is not going to fly. That in itself is something.
The only one here who is pretending is you. Pretending you know what the realities of the situation are. It's quite a nice little fantasy (and/or hallucination).
As I said before, even if your move request is granted, the entire raise and then some would be eaten up in travel cost and other associated expenses related to ensuring the bond between father and child. Are you prepared to fly them 4-5 times a year to see their father (if not more?). Are you prepared for them to be away for 2-3 months at a time? Are you prepared for $100 a month long distance charges? Are you prepared for lost CS because the visitation will be so much greater? (thats another thing..your CS could change for the worse, depending on what state you move to..I mean FAR worse..better check that..what state are you moving to?).
$20K is not much money, and your dreams of paradise are going to be funneled to the airline, phone company and right back into your ex's pocket.
But none of that matters because odd's are if you go before a judge with this cock-a-manie scheme, you are going to lose your kids, especially if they have extended family in West Virginia.
Listen, if they DO have extended family in WV, you can forget, 100% percent, without fail, you wont be going anywhere if you want to keep your kids.
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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Relayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 9506
Loc: Moorglade Mover
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Boogieburke-Just as I thought...I check WV and SC child support and there is a difference. In WV, parenting time is NOT taken into account in determining CS amount where in SC it is...
Your CS will go down...
LOLOLOLOLOLO..
I think I just saw $20K flying out the window...
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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boogieburke
journeyman
Reged: 06/21/07
Posts: 51
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Look Relayer,
I've searched the laws, I've read case decisions and appeals, I've gone over this whole stressful situation over and over. I've printed out a ton of articles about relocating with out of state with children, and the worst thing I've done was to post here to only be attacked personally when no one knows anything about me, my ex, the relationship that we both have individually with the children, the extent of the relationship with the extended family, whom the children never see. They have a close relationship with their 3 year old brother, and I'd due to have another son in December. I've talked with several lawyers regarding this case, and I've fought with my current husband about this freakin move on a regular basis. Hes taking the job, I'm left to choose between my spouse and his 2 sons, or my 2 daughters and leave them behind with their father. The job is in SC, by the way and its a 20,000 a year salary increase from what hes making now. Thats a lot of money when you are supporting a family on your own. I stay home with my kids. Whats wrong with that? I'm proud of my children. The emotional attachement that I have with all of my kids is strong. I could never be apart from any of them, and I'm sure they would struggle being away from their mother as well.
The girls have never had a significant seperation from me. Their dad however just comes and goes when he pleases, and has the pleasure of pursing his career goals and whatever else he wants from life when I guess I don't have the right to. I don't have the right to travel with my husband without sacrificing 2 of my children according to everyone. I dont believe thats fair and I certainly don't believe its the best interest of the children. But thats what I'll have an attorney for. I let him/her fight this battle for me,because I have to. Like I said, hubbys taking the job regardless of my situation here. But I told him that if the judge won't allow the move, then I'm not leaving. I would appeal of course, but I won't leave 2 of my kids.
I know a lot of you feel that the best interest of the kids is to have a healthy relationship with their father, but you do not know what hes like. Its to long to explain, and I'm sick of explaining. This whole situation has gotten me stressed so much, that I'm feeling depressed and unable to control the situation. I get on here, and continually to find cruel remarks directed towards me and I just unable to keep it together. My feelings are hurt from complete strangers, and that makes no sense to me at all on why it bothers me so. Maybe because if you knew me, and my children and have known what I've overcome with them, maybe you would be a little more compasionate.
I don't need anger mgt classes. I try to be the best person that I can be, but everyone has their limits to what can be said to them. I blew up at BeachBabeRN, yes I know this, but I can only say that I'm sorry. She had me in tears with her remarks and I was being extremely sensitive and defensive. I would hope that all of you would want the best outcome and I will let you know what happens regardless. If I can move great, if not, then I'll overcome that when it happens. Until then, I am too sorry for hijacking this post and hope that everything works out for her in the end.
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Relayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 9506
Loc: Moorglade Mover
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Look Relayer,
I've searched the laws, I've read case decisions and appeals, I've gone over this whole stressful situation over and over. I've printed out a ton of articles about relocating with out of state with children, and the worst thing I've done was to post here to only be attacked personally when no one knows anything about me, my ex, the relationship that we both have individually with the children, the extent of the relationship with the extended family, whom the children never see.
-->Oh..ok..you have extended family in South Carolina..
They have a close relationship with their 3 year old brother, and I'd due to have another son in December.
--> A relationship with a father is going to trump on with their 1/2 sibilings.
I've talked with several lawyers regarding this case, and I've fought with my current husband about this freakin move on a regular basis.
--> Why the fight? Sounds like even HE doesnt want to move. You are seeing $$$.. Jesus
Hes taking the job, I'm left to choose between my spouse and his 2 sons, or my 2 daughters and leave them behind with their father.
--> Yes, you are.
The job is in SC, by the way and its a 20,000 a year salary increase from what hes making now.
--> I know and $20,000 is peanuts. Especially for a huge move. LOL
Thats a lot of money when you are supporting a family on your own.
--> No it isn't.
I stay home with my kids.
-->WHAT?????????????????? You blew it with that one
Whats wrong with that? I'm proud of my children.
--> The question is, are they proud of you? Doubtful.
The emotional attachement that I have with all of my kids is strong.
-->Duh..and your ex's is any less so? In your mind maybe, but not in theirs or his..
I could never be apart from any of them,
--> Now you will get the chance!
and I'm sure they would struggle being away from their mother as well.
--> who? I thought you were the mother...if you mean "father" no worry..because they wont be...they will be away from their "mother" though..if thats what you want to call yourself
The girls have never had a significant seperation from me.
--> There is a first time for everything
Their dad however just comes and goes when he pleases,
--> As oppossed to ypu having him chained up in the dungeon?
and has the pleasure of pursing his career goals and whatever else he wants from life when I guess I don't have the right to.
--> YOU stay at home! You dont have any career goals..you are slipping further here boogie..your arguement keeps getting weaker...
I don't have the right to travel with my husband without sacrificing 2 of my children according to everyone.
--> Are you finally starting to realize that?
I dont believe thats fair and I certainly don't believe its the best interest of the children.
--> $20K as oppsed to a relationship with their father? You are willing to sell your kids relationship with the father for $20K? What would you sell for $30K? (Once we past $30K, I DONT want to know what you would sell..LOL)
But thats what I'll have an attorney for. I let him/her fight this battle for me,because I have to.
---> There goes that $20K again.
Like I said, hubbys taking the job regardless of my situation here. But I told him that if the judge won't allow the move, then I'm not leaving.
--> Renew the lease or whatever..because you are staying
I would appeal of course, but I won't leave 2 of my kids.
I know a lot of you feel that the best interest of the kids is to have a healthy relationship with their father, but you do not know what hes like.
--> A regular Charles Manson I am sure..at least to you
Its to long to explain, and I'm sick of explaining. This whole situation has gotten me stressed so much, that I'm feeling depressed and unable to control the situation.
--> You cant control it because you fail to understand the realities.
I get on here, and continually to find cruel remarks directed towards me and I just unable to keep it together.
--> You are boo-hoo'ing about cruel remarks made on an internet forum but the CRUEL thing you are attempting to do in real life makes no difference. Give me a phucking break.
My feelings are hurt from complete strangers, and that makes no sense to me at all on why it bothers me so. Maybe because if you knew me, and my children and have known what I've overcome with them, maybe you would be a little more compasionate.
I don't need anger mgt classes. I try to be the best person that I can be, but everyone has their limits to what can be said to them. I blew up at BeachBabeRN, yes I know this, but I can only say that I'm sorry. She had me in tears with her remarks and I was being extremely sensitive and defensive. I would hope that all of you would want the best outcome and I will let you know what happens regardless. If I can move great, if not, then I'll overcome that when it happens. Until then, I am too sorry for hijacking this post and hope that everything works out for her in the end.
--> Ok..now, for the 28,123 time..no one is being "cruel" to you. You are continually failing to see the reality as told by people with FAR more experience in this stuff than you. You will spend $$ on an attorney, attempting to move to a state with less CS, for a paltry sum of money, away from family and friends but somehow you are the victim.
The only ones in this scenario who are victims are your kids, unortunately.
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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BeachBabeRN
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 3028
Loc: VA for 21 years, NC forever!
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Little miss, I'm using a double screen to answer your post because you feel as if you've been the injured one here.
First of all, you are absolutely correct that none of us know the entire ins and outs of your situation. However, the only reason that is is because you didn't POST them. We can only answer based on the information given.
In an earlier post, you stated you moved four hours away to be near extended family, now you state they don't see that family. Which is it and how do you expect us to know the difference?
You state that your husband is taking the job no matter what -- isn't he now doing the same thing? Making money far more important than your relationship with him and his sons? That's not right, missy, in any sense of the word. I can assure you, that if that paltry amount of money was worth more to my husband than our marraige, he'd be heading there with a signed separation agreement in his hand and we'd be on the road to divorce. A marriage isn't supposed to have a price tag.
You have the right to pursue any career goal you choose to and perhaps you SHOULD choose to, then you wouldn't be competely dependent on anyone to provide your living and be at their mercy, for that's what you are. I didn't go to nursing school until my youngest child started schhol. Was it difficult? Oh, HELL yes! Was it worth it? Well, let's see -- I bought my house without anyone's help and have paid for it myself and continue to do so. I pay my bills, my kids dress in Old Navy and Billabong, I dress in Old Navy and Roxy. We have food on the table for every meal. We go on family vacations twice a summer. Christmases and birthdays are pretty darn good in this house. I've bought MYSELF over 10K in jewelry because I WANTED to and I COULD. Then I got married last November. My husband pays my car payment, my gym membership and our medical insurance **for MY kids also** He then puts the largest portion of his check away for OUR retirement. Works out pretty even. He also owns a house that is currently rented.
No one has been deliberately cruel to you, BB. You simply wanted folks to validate what you said and when you post here, that sometimes happens but more often doesn't. You sound very young and are definitely inexperienced in this arena. If you stay in WV and your hubby leaves for 20k? There's soemthing WRONG there. Have you no skills? Could you not make up that 20K a year by working? Kids don't always have to be in daycare for two parents to work -- there are many many jobs that use alternate shifts -- I work three twelve hour shifts per week, Friday/Saturday/Sunday. I am an RN. My shift differential is only slightly less than that 20K your husband will make by moving. Then there's my salary. Do I LIKE working all weekends? Heck no I don't! But my husband works 2-10 and I get to be HOME with my children for most of the week -- his days off change and he's there for them. Why wouldn't that work for you?
You owe me no apology, I assure you, I lost no sleep over what you said but it WAS inappropriate and I don't appreciate being threatened in any way, shape or form. I also don't appreciate your funny little **joke** although my husband laughed his head off when I repeated it to him.
NO ONE has been unnecessarily cruel, we've just told you what is likely to happen, based on our experience, especially Relayer. His story is HORRIFIC and he just keeps working for his kids the best he can. Instead of being defensive, try LISTENING to what people are saying. If ANY lawyer is telling you that you have more than a 1 or 2 percent chance of moving, they're LYING.
You ask why your ex is free to do as he chooses and pursue any goal he chooses to -- it's because he does NOT have custody of your childre, YOU do. It's only limiting if you ALLOW it to be. You can do anything you want to do, but you have to take care of your children FIRST.
As I said to the OP, think creatively. What can you do to help your family's finances? Can YOU work an alternative shift so that the children don't have to be with a sitter or in daycare?
And my situation isn't a whole lot different from yours -- I want to leave the area I live in and so does my husband. We HATE the city we live in. BUT, his son, 50 miles away comes FIRST. We won't move until after he graduates from high school. Period. No discussion. If I wanted a divorce, I could leave tomorrow. My husband and his CHILD are more important to me.
There are lots of alternatives to this situation, miss. If YOUR husband isn't willing to consider them, then there's a bigger problem here.
I wish you luck and would be interested in knowing the outcome of your plight -- but sadly, I think that it'll be exactly what I and other posters have stated -- you MAY get permission to move with your children but that magnificent 20K will be eaten up in airline tickets, decreased child support, long distance charges and other assorted payouts so that your children can maintain their relationship with their father.
20K is just slightly less than $400 per week -- have you looked at flight costs? Gas prices to drive them back? You want your children away from you for an entire summer? Every extended school vacation? Even without a financial incentive, I think the price for this move is far too high.
In addition, if anonymous posters on an internet mesage board can get you to tears? You need to polish up the armor because if WE can do that WHAT is your ex going to be able to drive you to? Need a tougher shell little miss.....or those **big girl panties**
Think about it......I can't see a good side to this.
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BeachBabeRN
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 3028
Loc: VA for 21 years, NC forever!
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Have you considered where your SONS will live if you stay behind with your daughters? Your husband has every right to take those boys with him also......
Just something else you need to consider.
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needopinions
journeyman
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 62
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Having first hand experience with the effects of moving children away from their father, I can tell you that no amount of money is worth it. Especially $20k. I haven't completely read all of the other posts, but I caught that you stay at home with your children. Get a part time job and make some extra cash if you really are in need of it. Why is it just your husband's job to carry all of the financial responsibility?
When my stepkids moved away two years ago it was the beginning of an awful downward spiral. Forget what it did to my husband, it's landed both kids in counseling with my stepson regressing tremendously in development, a roller coaster ride of emotional problems with my stepdaughter, and behavior issues in both.
What were once two sweet, loving, happy-go-lucky kids have transformed in two years to entirely different people. Odd, it all started the same time their mother moved them away.
I don't care if your husband is going to be making an extra $200k a year -- you can't put a price tag on a child's relationship with, or proximity to, EITHER parent.
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BeachBabeRN
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 3028
Loc: VA for 21 years, NC forever!
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As you can see, multiple people have attempted to inform this poster what you just did and it doesn't seem to matter to her.
I can see that to some, 20K extra a year would seem like a fortune but in this case, with all the extra expenses involved, it would get eaten up very rapidly.
She has posted earlier on the forum, you might want to read all the posts by **boogieburke**
While I would agree that we were not rude, we were direct which to some is the same thing.
Your question is the same one I asked -- and if the money means that much, then the poster should be willing to do whatever she can to keep her entire family together.
However, she has also stated that her husband IS taking the job no matter what so perhaps he's the one setting the price, who knows?
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needopinions
journeyman
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 62
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Taking the job no matter what? And that's a man worth following? If my husband EVER told me that I'd tell him to go right ahead and oh, by the way, have a nice life while you're at it.
I read the other posts and I understand more of the situation.
I think the problem lies with the husband making this decision "no matter what". Knowing that she, without employment, would feel that she has no choice but to follow. The simple solution is to stay put, get a job, and attain her "career goals". And release some of this dependency on a husband. One of the WORST things a woman can do, in my opinion is rely on a man -- any man -- for support. It's not 1952 anymore.
And I don't buy that the father is a "Charles Manson", as Relayer put it. Ask the vast majority of ex-wives and they'll tell you awful things about their ex-husbands - myself included. Especially if it helps them argue their case, as it does in this situation.
There will always be bigger, better opportunities somewhere else. But your ability to pursue those opportunities decreases greatly when kids are involved, and even moreso when a divorce comes into play.
I have NO sympathy for women who cry helpless as they sit at home while their husband slumps off to work. I don't disagree that being at home with mom is great for children, but if it's not great for the overall situation a sacrifice has to be made. We all do it. I had my son in my senior yeaer of college but I managed to finish (still a year early), work full time as a publicist WHILE completing my MBA...all the while as a single parent. So I have literally no patience for a woman who says they simply can't swing it when they have a husband and/or other resources to help. I struggled for years, but knew I had to do it for my son and along the way I've managed work myself into a very successful career. I don't technically "need" to work, my husband's income is more than enough to support us all but I do work not only because I like my job, but because I don't think I have the right not to.
In this case, her mind is made up -- she's going she just needs to figure out the best way to do it -- and is looking for justification/approval.
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BeachBabeRN
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 3028
Loc: VA for 21 years, NC forever!
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The discussion would have been completely different had she said earlier that he's going, whether she goes or not -- I almost think that's a bigger issue than moving the kids -- something is drastically wrong in that household.
In any event, although I wasn't in my final year of college when I had my first child, I completed my education as fast as I could, after my youngest was in school. My views on SAH moms are similar to yours.
However, with that said, I also don't know what it's like to completely depend on a man, I've always worked. Now that she has inadvertenty let slip the reason for her extreme views, I also better understand but I have minimal sympathy.
It sounds as if she is a young helpless **in her mind anyway** girl who is horrified to see her perfect world shattered and afraid of losing her husband for the mere price of 20K -- that's not enough to give up ANYTHING or ANYONE. However, her marriage now has a price on it. And it's a low one.
My last question though still stands -- if her hubby goes and takes the job, what about her children with HIM? Will he want them to go with him? Or is she going to fight THEM moving also?
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