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HO2
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a saved marriage
      #135548 - 08/14/06 05:17 AM

I came here 4 years ago. I had been married for 4 years and had 1 year old son. I was ready to leave my marriage for 'the love of my life'. I spent almost two years thinking about leaving my marriage and then opted for staying in the marriage. There was no counseling. I could not see what counseling should bring. I had gotten married to my husband, because I sincerely liked and respected his personality. Romantic love and passion had not been part of the equation... Could I go and counsel that out of nowhere into our marriage?

I still believe that not many men can stand up to my husband in terms of integrity and many other essential qualities. When I got married to my husband I felt that it was a sign of maturity that I would choose with my head and not just let my stupid heart pick out a foolish jerk, like it had done before. I chose to not get hurt and disappointed and I did not get hurt and disappointed and felt deliriously happy and blessed and clever, until all I thought I knew, all I thought I wanted, all I thought I was collapsed into nothing when I met the OM. You know, when you stop and call everything into question and when you ask yourself: Was I mature or just the ultimate cowardly fool? Who the heck am I ? What the heck am I doing?

I came here, I got answers. Passion is a 6-month thing. Kids need both parents. Selfishness. No greener pastures.

As our marriage had been a week-end marriage, I thought that in order to 'save' the marriage I would have to move to live with him on a daily basis and that is what I did after two years of feeling paralyzed.

Four years down the road I can say there was not a single day that passed without me thinking of the OM. Not because he is better than my husband. In no way is he better. In fact, if there is someone who can truly drive me crazy and make me mad and disappoint me beyond belief, it is him. It makes sense, cause only the ones who are deep in our hearts can really get to us in such a way. My husband cannot make me mad or sad, there are absolutely 'no problems' in our marriage. It is a very happy marriage. So 4 years further down the road, I am already in a 8-year-marriage, a good marriage.

From the way I feel I could stay married forever or divorce tomorrow. 4 years ago I lost my convictions and I never got them back. I live with 'I don't know, don't make me think about it.' I live with 'maybe he will leave me for someone younger when he gets into midlife crisis and things will dissolve without me being 'guilty'.' I live with 'I live without pain so I have every reason to be happy.' I live with 'it surely is the best thing for our kid'. I live with 'I terribly miss the one who is so deep in my heart that he can actually hurt me.'

A saved marriage. A saved marriage?
Well, a continued marriage. And unless there is abuse, everything is better than divorce.
Right?


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Curmudgeon
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I don't think so... [Re: HO2]
      #135564 - 08/14/06 08:29 AM

Everything is NOT better than divorce. Staying in a marriage just because you can and its comfortable while continuing to practive emotional adultery is not, in my opinion, better. Its settling for half a loaf and subjecting him to the same, even if he doesn't know it.

Interesting that you admire your husband's integrity when that quality appears to be eluding you.


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HO2
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: Curmudgeon]
      #135646 - 08/14/06 11:53 AM

Your post sounds angry.

> Staying in a marriage just because you can and its >comfortable while continuing to practive emotional >adultery is not, in my opinion, better.

'Continuing to PRACTICE emotional adultery.' I take it thinking of someone is practicing emotional adultery, like you sit down in the morning and say: Now I PRACTICE emotional adultery and think of X.'

>It is settling for half a loaf and subjecting him to the >same, even if he doesn't know it.

Well, you were not around 4 years ago, but my husband does know. He knows. I am not sure, but I think you are maybe a 'romantic' woman.

I believe that my husband is not the only man who'd rather live with his wife being emotional about someone else, as long as she is all his in flesh and blood and as long as she behaves in a reasonable and responsible way, than see her leave and bust the family unit. My husband is of the opinion that he and I are very different and that it is always possible that we can meet someone with whom we 'click' more, because they are more like us, BUT ...we are married and we do get along well and are a successful team.

By the way: emotional adultery - what does that mean anyway? To be perfectly honest, 'my emotional affair' and I spent a lot of time discussing, critisizing, fighting.... viciously at times... it was not like I was trashing my husband and making love in words or deeds to someone else. It was not about finding someone who can make me feel good about myself and flatter me. My husband never failed/s to comment on how beautiful, attractive, intelligent etc. he finds me. It is hard to put down in words what the attraction and all the whys of the emotional affair were...but I think it had to do with the feeling that this encounter was about personal growth on both sides... meeting someone who made you realize who you really are, how you really tick and gives you an incentive to want to change and grow ...grow together, keep discussing....which we did not.

>Interesting that you admire your husband's integrity when >that quality appears to be eluding you.

I hope insulting me makes you feel better. It surely does not make you look like a good person though.


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matart1
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Re: a saved marriage [Re: HO2]
      #135690 - 08/14/06 02:08 PM

what exactly are you asking for in your post - validation to seek another man to fill what exactly?

is there no spark in your marriage? what have you and your husband done to recreate what you once had?

is this OM worth having in your life what it would do to your husband and child?

have you tried to make your marriage work - sticking it out is not the same as making your marriage work - counseling, date nights, family trips....for that matter, visit Slumber Parties and spice up the marriage, but are You trying or are you pining for some eye candy?

your husband seems to be the ideal man even to yourself.
what if this OM does not feel the void you are feeling in your life, or even if he does feel the void but you find out that it only lasted for say 1 yr or less, would that short time frame be worth it to you what it would cause your husband and child....
have you seeked counseling for yourself to see if you can find happiness for yourself without needing to stray.
or are you just finding the thrill of the chase of another man and not getting caught to be your fancy.

I agree, grass may not always be greener on the other side but your actions will not just impact yourself but a child whose life you will turn upside down.

I would not say yes or no to your choices but what have you really put into it, like I said, just passing the time is not putting forth an effort.

--------------------
Life is a long lesson in humility.


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erase2005
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Re: a saved marriage [Re: matart1]
      #135781 - 08/14/06 06:56 PM

as a husband who has lived through both physical affairs (yes, affairs) and an emotional affair, either choice in this is not acceptable. I've suffered through her affairs because I listened to faulty logic and believed that I wasn't good enough, and therefore, this was my punishment. But I've come to realize that I was good enough, and that her selfish narcissism cheated me out of what should have been some of the happier years of my life.

Don't assume that your husband is OK with the situation. This is a situation that will affect at least four lives.


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Curmudgeon
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: HO2]
      #135813 - 08/14/06 07:48 PM

Emotional adultery is the giving of time, thought and emotional energy to somone else who is not the person you purport to be with.

If your husband knows and is willing to live with that, it's ultimately his loss and he has no one but himself to blame. Perhaps he doesn't realize that he deserves better. Then again, if he's comfortable and willing to settle for what appears to still be half a loaf, more power to him.

I am anything but a romantic woman. I'm a romantic man who wouldn't put up with it, and ultimately didn't.

I am a good person. I'm also a curmudgeon!


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HO2
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Re: a saved marriage [Re: matart1]
      #135929 - 08/14/06 09:19 PM

>what exactly are you asking for in your post - validation >to seek another man to fill what exactly?

I shared my story. I noticed people being in the same situation as me 4 years ago and I told them what I did. That is it. Of course, I was trying to spark a discussion at the same time.

>is there no spark in your marriage?
There is friendship.

>what have you and your husband done to recreate what you >once had?
We have what we once had.

>is this OM worth having in your life what it would do to >your husband and child?
Well, at the time I did not think so and opted against him.

>Have you tried to make your marriage work - sticking it >out is not the same as making your marriage work - >counseling, date nights, family trips....

No couple counseling. He, too, thought that would be stupid. I once went all by myself. The shrink said a marriage that is not so intense is usually a good thing for kids, as the parents tend to focus on the kid instead of each other.
Yes, there were /are date nights, yes, many family trips. We spend a lot of time travelling together. We have a large circle of friends.

>are you pining for some eye candy?
Eye Candy? My husband is young, the OM was more like heading towards his 60s. So far for eye candy. And if you come up with the cliche of money and status now. The OM does not have more money or status.

>what if this OM does not feel the void you are feeling in >your life,

I am afraid he would not only fill it, but over-fill it, which I don't think is a good thing. Maybe that is part of my catholic upbringing that I think living an egoisme deux is a bad thing. Plus my priority is my child. My decision for my husband was also a decision for my child, i.e. I feared that an emotionally intense relationship would take away too much from the time and energy I should
spend on my child. And of course, I had no wish to hurt my husband either.

>have you seeked counseling for yourself to see if you can >find happiness for yourself without needing to stray.

I am not straying. I have not been involved in multiple affairs. I don't go out by myself. I don't flirt. I don't do internet chat on my space or whereever. I look after my child, I work, I make plans with my husband. That is it.

>I would not say yes or no to your choices but what have >you really put into it, like I said, just passing the time >is not putting forth an effort.

I guess that is the point. I am putting in my time, all of my time and my husband put in some more attention and made a bigger effort to take time out to talk to me. The result is decently good, but that does not mean we came up with a 'new' marriage. Or that the things that lack do not lack anymore. And that is just what is. That is the whole story I wanted to tell on this board. And basically I would be surprised if our marriage was the only one that is like that. Maybe the whole mystery of long-term marriages is just that: mutual respect and the willingness to say: okay, that is it, maybe it is not the best out there, but it is OK.


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Curmudgeon
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Re: a saved marriage [Re: HO2]
      #135960 - 08/14/06 09:29 PM

"...maybe it is not the best out there, but it is OK."

Back to my original premise of staying in a marriage because you can and because it's comfortable.

You're both settling because of the child. I hate to be the one to point this out to you but children come, grow and go. You two will be what's left. Pity!


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HO2
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: Curmudgeon]
      #136071 - 08/14/06 10:02 PM

>Emotional adultery is the giving of time, thought and >emotional energy to somone else who is not the person you >purport to be with.

Wow, then indeed I am caught up in multiple cases of emotional adultery...with people of all sexes and ages.
How exciting! Of course, I am being sarcastic. I know that you mean...'to a person you are sexually attracted to and who could take the place of your spouse.'

>If your husband knows and is willing to live with that, >it's ultimately his loss and he has no one but himself to >blame. Perhaps he doesn't realize that he deserves better.

Interesting thought. Maybe that is so. Maybe the image I have of him and men in general is wrong and twisted. I always got the impression that men are into possession. I thought I found that confirmed from the many postings of ex-wives who said that their husbands - although presumably out of love - still came around for sex, going for happy polygamy, keeping the women from moving on to someone else.
It is well-know that in societies where women hold the power we do not find one woman with a bunch of men happily pursueing a life of polygamy. Too much emotional stress for women I think. Men seem to do better with that. If the women are in a position of power, it is always serial monogamy we find.
Now, don't get me wrong, I am not saying that my husband just keeps me as one of many. I don't think he does. Only that the thought of lack of self-esteem had not occurred to me as a reason for his sticking it out.

>I am anything but a romantic woman. I'm a romantic man who >wouldn't puit up with it, and ultimately didn't.

That is a very good point. I often asked myself: is the only reason he was able to put up with it that just like me he is not so emotional about the marriage, but looks at things from a very detached and 'objective' point of view. I don't know. After 10 years together we are still not comfortable talking about emotions. There is like a barrier there in that respect. It is very difficult with him really and two years ago he said he might not really be an emotional person or someone who is truly in touch with the emotional side of things. Now I can hear everyone shout: Counseling!
But he will not go there and there will be no couple counseling. And you know why? Because counseling would bring up problems 'that we do not have now'. Counseling would bring up the questions I actually once asked him: Did we make a mistake by getting married? Do you ever ask yourself why we got married? Was it for health insurance?

That was mere provocation of course. I know we got married, because both our parents seemed be on the verge of dying and there was this ' God, I could be without family'-fear.

Anyway, counseling would open up a can of worms and turn the good there is into something defective and sour. I do not believe in counseling.


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HO2
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Re: a saved marriage [Re: Curmudgeon]
      #136095 - 08/14/06 10:09 PM

> I hate to be the one to point this out to you but >children come, grow and go.

Yes, they do and hopefully they COME into a place where people devote themselves to them, GROW up in an emotionally stable place to be emotionally stable people and are so happy, healthy and sure of themselves to go out and try to conquer the world one day.

>You two will be what's left. Pity!

You think?


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Curmudgeon
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: HO2]
      #136112 - 08/14/06 10:19 PM

"I do not believe in counseling. "

Is that distaste, distrust or fear?

In any event, I find this all very sad (and that's probably the romantic in me).

I would hope that your view of men is twisted. The last thing I possess in life is my wife. But I would probably have to had plead guilty in the past to a degree but, hopefully, not a large one.

I'm certainly not condemning either of you. This is more an expression of concern borne of my own past which included a 25-year marriage that shouldn't have been. However, I was too comfortable, too complascent and probably too insecure and afraid to do anything about it for far too long.

What I can tell you is that nothing beats a truly loving marriage with respect, equality, mutuality, passion, love and liking in which two wholes come together and enhance one another.

Your sapouse and your marriage should come first and that is what will benefit children the most and provide them with security and a sound model for their own future relationships. After all, children do learn what they live.


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Curmudgeon
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Re: a saved marriage [Re: HO2]
      #136114 - 08/14/06 10:20 PM

Read what I wrote below!

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HO2
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: Curmudgeon]
      #136121 - 08/14/06 10:32 PM

>I do not believe in counseling. "
>Is that distaste, distrust or fear?

Distrust on my part. I believe fear on his. He once said: you would divorce me after that. I think that is because he knows he is lousy when it comes to talking about all things emotional. He would feel uneasy and helpless and horrible and like a failure....for no good reason by the way. It is not his fault if we have a marriage that is what it is. What is the point to go somewhere and make a third person witness that we once got married for reasons a, b , c, but not reasons x, y, z? And then maxbe he does love me more than I love him. It is possible, there is always one who loves more, people say.


>I'm certainly not condemning either of you. This is more >an expression of concern borne of my own past which >included a 25-year marriage that shouldn't have been. >However, I was too comfortable, too complascent and >probably too insecure and afraid to do anything about it >for far too long.

I see.

>What I can tell you is that nothing beats a truly loving >marriage with respect, equality, mutuality, passion, love >and liking in which two wholes come together and enhance >one another.

Oh yes, I know.
BUT fact is, we get married at some point in time based on what we know then, based on what we thought was the right thing to do THEN. Ten years later we might have learnt a whole lot more about ourselves and we might have grown and say: judging from what I know now, I would not make the same decision agaiin. BUT then you are no longer just you, you are a mother, you are a father.

>Your spouse and your marriage should come first and that >is what will benefit children the most and provide them >with security and a sound model for their own future >relationships. After all, children do learn what they >live.

I am trying to provide a sound model, but I am not the wizard of Ozz, although if I remember correctly he was not a real wizzard after all.

Thanks for taking the time to answer.


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I_am_Jack
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: HO2]
      #136829 - 08/16/06 09:08 AM

What you are doing is something I call "holding the line." Throughout history, what has made the job of a soldier so honorable and so respected has not been the ability to win battles or kill other soldiers, but has been the ability to stay in battle and die rather than retreat and live. The Spartan mothers told their sons when they went away to war to "return with your shields or upon them," because cowards ditched their shields when they fled, and the dead were carried home on their shields, used as make-shift stretchers. In the Battle of the Bulge, a paratrooper division plugged the gap in the American line and held their position without reinforcement or even warm clothes (it was December and January). In Saving Private Ryan, the entire group gets killed at the end attempting to keep a bridge open until reinforcements arrived.

My lengthly arrived at point is that you two seem to be "holding the line" for the sake of your child, not staying together out of some fear of not finding someone better. As you have clearly stated, it was easy for you to find someone else on par with your husband, and, if he is the man you write about, then he shouldn't have any trouble finding another woman. What you are doing is noble and somewhat self-sacrificing, but at least you two are friends.

I don't have any advice...I just wanted to put my two cents in.

--------------------
Never allow anyone to persuade you to do that which is not best for you. -Pythagoras


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I_am_Jack
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: I_am_Jack]
      #136835 - 08/16/06 09:17 AM

Oh, and I would leave before I pursued someone else, or allowed myself to be pursued by someone else. At least you told your husband. Its not as if you were playing him for a cockold. Does he know that you still feel this way? Or is he oblivious to what you are feeling? Maybe he'd like a divorce too, but fears the child support/alimony.

Where is Muad'dib when he's actually needed?

--------------------
Never allow anyone to persuade you to do that which is not best for you. -Pythagoras


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HO2
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: I_am_Jack]
      #136929 - 08/16/06 02:22 PM

To answer your questions:
He is not oblivious. He is aware.

I know that he does not wish to divorce.
And fear of CS is not the reason why. We are not in a financially difficult situation and wouldn't get into one, if we seperated.


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I_am_Jack
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: HO2]
      #136959 - 08/16/06 04:06 PM

so you ARE holding the line. That's about the least selfish thing I've ever heard of someone doing. Going back to the soldier analogy it isn't death that scares soldiers, its suffering a debilitating injury that slowly kills them for the rest of their lives, or in your case "until death do you part." I wouldn't blame you for divorcing, but it is a good thing you are trying to do for your child.

On that subject, the parents of a friend of mine (ok, it was an ex-girlfriend) were in a similar situation. They had grown apart, but stayed together for their 5 girls. When the youngest went off to college, the mother wanted to file for divorce, while the father wanted to work things out. The daughter was so upset by the circumstances that she got physically sick (I was dating her. It was a nightmare.). It has been five years. I spoke to her the other day. She told me her parents were still together. I guess they decided to continue to stay together for the kids even after they are grown and out of the house. Thus, they are continuing to "hold the line."

Another friend, this time a 39 year-old youth minister in the church I used to attend. His parents, who are in their 80s recently divorced, because they just didn't have that much in common anymore. He was upset, but the biggest thing was how angry or disappointed he was, as if they were so old that they should have just stayed together another year or two, because one or the other of them would have died anyway.

Yet another friend's parents divorced when he was a toddler. He calls his stepfather, "dad," and his biological father, "Mitch." No traumatic damage that I'm aware of, except that his whole family are a bunch of hillbilly hicks...

I'm not quite sure where I was going with all this, except to show what happened with some people I know who were in similar situations.

Hmm...If he knows you're miserable, is fine with you having "emotional affairs," and knows that he can't give you what you need, then maybe you two should try "swinging." Ha! That was mostly a joke.

--------------------
Never allow anyone to persuade you to do that which is not best for you. -Pythagoras


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mommachele
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: I_am_Jack]
      #136960 - 08/16/06 04:10 PM

I really hope you meant swinging from the chandelier (sp) or the ceiling fan!!!

Hopefully the "towing the line" will lead to a good outcome. Maybe you will be able to find that "thing" that made you love him and want to marry him inthe first place.

While you are towing the line, make it a daily thing to look for 3-? good things about him and your life, Sometimes we get so locked into seeing only the bad stuff that we miss the things that are good.

Hugs
Chele


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HO2
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: mommachele]
      #137196 - 08/17/06 01:04 AM

I can see 20 good things and more about him, and I see all of them in my beautiful kid. Like I said marrying him was a choice I made with my head, because I saw so many good things.

I thought I was the luckiest person ever, when he and I got together. So imagine how my world got rocked 4 years ago, when I noticed how vulnerable head-made decisions can be, when feelings overwhelm you 'all of a sudden'. It got rocked enough so that I would not be comfortable with having a second child and I think that is sad for my son. But God knows there is worse.

There is a saying that we appreciate and respect people for all their strengths, but we truly love them for their weaknesses.

I guess that is because we feel that we can make a positive and significant change in their lives. In a very selfish way.....be important. That there is something exclusive, incredibly intimate and heart-warming between two people who see each other's weaknesses and forgive and are vulnerable to each other and support each other. But maybe that is a romantic illusion anyway. Who knows.

Anyway, this might surprise you, but this summer for the first time, I thought I should concentrate on everything that was not so perfect about my husband and where I could make a difference in his life, to get closer. The thing is I can a see a few things and had long talks with his mother about them, who is far more critical than me (sometimes it seems everyone is far more critical with him than me). But I still have no idea how I can get through to him and break the ice and be supportive in domains that he could benefit from. Neither did she by the way. It is not as easy as it sounds, being close, it is not like you can make a choice and say: Now we are just really really close, we only have to want it really badly.

That is what made me so mad 4 years ago. The realization: there is a brother you have known all your life and there is nothing , absolutely nothing you have in common and no way to get close. There is your husband whom you have lived with for many years and you are still on a level that is ... I don't know what it is ... respectful friendship maybe...and then you meet someone and within seconds you have the feeling that you have known that person all your life, and it is like the person you were as a kid, the person you are, the person you could be, they all fuse into one and you get into this neverending intimate discussion that you thought you would not even be interested in in the least.
Because the person you were... you thought you were over and done with that

the person you are....you thought you knew that person from the inside out

and the person you could be...well, you had never given any thought to that anyway, cause you were just content to be who you are.

All that sounds weird, I am sure. And actually, while I thought about it a lot a couple of years ago, I don't give much thought to it anymore. I move forward, but still moving forward felt better when I still had all my convictions intact.


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I_am_Jack
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: HO2]
      #137276 - 08/17/06 10:27 AM

Someone once told me (and I really wish I could remember his name) that you can't control who you fall in love with, only what you do about it.

In his case, he met his wife while on a mission trip to America from Brazil. She was the daughter of the family that housed him for six months. They hit it off immediately and were very much in love, but it would have been disgraceful for him to court her while on his mission, especially as they were living in the same house. So he finished his mission without flirting or romancing her, and returned two years later and proposed. They'd been married for 10 years when I met them.

He shared this story with me because I was in a similar situation. I was also on a mission trip, and was attracted to a girl we were trying to help through some hardships. He pointed out to me that it was normal to feel that way, but that to pursue this particular girl would not have been right for ethical reasons.

I've since taken that message to heart. I have dated several girls casually at the same time, and been in love with all of them. When I was in love with three different women. That was the time to let my head make a decision. I decided with my heart and lost all three. I'm still jaded by that experience.

I guess my (again) lengthily arrived at point is that for you to fall in love with someone else while in a committed relationship with your husband is not unusual or "wicked," but that what you do about it is what makes it appropriate or inappropriate.

I can say this however. If you do decide to "trade up" for someone whom you feel more passionately for, the love will be more rewarding, but the stakes will be higher (As you have already pointed out that you are aware). You will never be completely satisfied because there is always someone better (better looking, a better match, whatever).

If the problem with your husband is that he is TOO together and independent, then perhaps it will give you some small comfort to know that, while you don't think that he needs you, clearly he wants you in his life, because you offer him something he could not have without you (if that is too romantic a notion, or too much of a stretch then ignore it. I was just trying to build on what you wrote).

Sometimes the grass really IS greener on the other side, but if we keep crossing the bridge, we'll never enjoy what we have in front of us, and I hear the trolls are dreadful...or was that the tolls...

--------------------
Never allow anyone to persuade you to do that which is not best for you. -Pythagoras


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HO2
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: I_am_Jack]
      #137414 - 08/17/06 04:41 PM

' while you don't think that he needs you, clearly he wants you in his life, because you offer him something he could not have without you'

Oh yes, I know I offer something that he could not have without me. At least not right away.
Like : a regular sex life with someone who lovingly takes care of his kid & keeps his social network intact & does all the 'family managing' & keeps the house and finances in order, plus the prestige that goes along with having an attractive wife who has a high academic degree, is fluent in 4 languages and is someone you can show off to clients....'.

If you add respect, friendship and lots of support for his career to all of the above, I think I do indeed offer a lot.
My problem is not that I think I would like to offer something and he does not give me a chance. My problem is not that I don't get compliments for all I have to offer. My problem is not that I do not feel appreciated in my marriage and as a result fall for every creep who tells me how wonderful I am. And my problem is not that my husband does not offer as many good qualities. My problem is/was that this marriage sometimes feels like a business relationship between friends, and I would like to take it to a deeper level. But then if that level was never there in the first place, how do you get there?

You want to know what a first conversation with my husband about very personal things was like:
Childhood?
My childhood was like every childhood. Some things good, some things less good.
Relationships?
What do you call a relationship? There were a couple of girls, but I had to concentrate on my studies. Nothing long-term or serious, only holiday flirts.

And now you can pick whatever personal topic you like, these things that people in love spend long hours confessing and discussing, we maybe spend like 20 minutes on that and talked instead about stockmarkets, politics, religion, architecture and were fascinated. We can still talk for hours and hours, as long as there is nothing personal involved. When it gets personal, it is like he feels threatened - and to be honest, I feel threatened. We both are not comfortable talking about feelings. It is always horrible. Feels unnatural, feels wrong. Wasn't there from the start and will probably never be there.

I guess our marriage follows the famous saying

'Marriage is not about looking into each other's eyes but about looking into the same direction.'

It is just that sometimes everyone would like to do just that 'spend a little time looking into someone else's eyes'.
I can do this with a few special girl-friends, I can do this with our child. So I am not leading a life of loneliness or emotional isolation. My life is not bad. It is not bad at all. But I cannot see what I can do to build a marriage that feels safe and strong and unvulnerable, because I don't know how to magically create something that just wasn't there from the start. And I still can get stomach cramps and panic attacks when I hear that the OM is anywhere close to where we are, because I don't feel up to the temptation to look into his eyes. Because they feel like home, with him talking about personal things felt natural. Okay, I really should stop this, I feel it makes me sentimental and sick.

By the way all the best for your marriage, too.


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I_am_Jack
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: HO2]
      #137424 - 08/17/06 05:02 PM

"By the way all the best for your marriage, too."

Ha! Thanks.

So basically you are the ultimate trophy wife (no offense meant). If a little appreciation would make you feel better (not well, but better) about the situation, then your husband is a fool for not complementing the hell out of you.

It sounds like you and your husband actually share a little in common...

"When it gets personal, it is like he feels threatened - and to be honest, I feel threatened. We both are not comfortable talking about feelings."

I understood you as saying that this was something unique to your relationship with your husband, that you could have these sort of conversations with your girlfriends and your child. If the difference is that you want to change that aspect of your relationship, but your husband doesn't, then you may want to break out a Snickers bar, 'cause your marriage isn't going anywhere for a while.

--------------------
Never allow anyone to persuade you to do that which is not best for you. -Pythagoras


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HO2
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: I_am_Jack]
      #138386 - 08/21/06 09:42 AM

I am not a trophy wife. Just because I have something to offer that does not make me a trophy.

Let me add that I don't think that mutual flattering-the- hell-out-of-each-other is much about intimacy or the key to a happy marriage. It takes much more intimacy to approach difficult subjects and state negative things. To feel at ease to say what you think and what you feel, even if it is unpleasant.... to admit fears and weaknesses, to admit that there are things that bother you, to have the courage to say things even though they might be hard for your partner....if you find that too difficult to do, something important is missing... maybe trust or emotional security, maybe it is simply an unwillingness to create a situation of mutual vulnerability...what do I know.

Anyway, I guess I got something out of posting here, because I changed my mind about counseling. Maybe it can indeed do us some good. I know he will hate me the very moment I bring it up. It is not so easy to convince someone to spend money on making things better, when they think everything is just as it should be and just fine.
I guess from his point of view I just have to get over myself and not be so 'complicated'.


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I_am_Jack
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Re: I don't think so... [Re: HO2]
      #138411 - 08/21/06 11:32 AM

"I am not a trophy wife. Just because I have something to offer that does not make me a trophy."

I just meant that from your description of what you have to offer him, that is how he sees you. As a complement or garnish to his career and personal life, but not as a deep, "complicated" personality to interact with on a personal/emotional level.

I was not being cynical or sarcastic when I wrote my last post; though, perhaps I was a little glib.

Good luck with the marriage counseling. I hope he doesn't just blow you off by basically telling you to "get over yourself," that was my wife's big thing to do...until I got the number of a Justice who would do the divorce for less than $100 dollars. Then she wanted to do counseling (we still haven't been able to schedule an appointment because of work schedules). Since then, she's made a greater effort to do the things necessary to a successful marriage, like talking and spending time together (and apart), She's even medicated for depression and anxiety now (although we still aren't having sex *sigh*).

--------------------
Never allow anyone to persuade you to do that which is not best for you. -Pythagoras


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