AloneInWyo
recently joined
Reged: 02/24/07
Posts: 9
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Just a warning - I bet this gets long - Sorry but I would greatly appreciate any advice or encouraging words if you have the time...
We have been married 8 years with 3 great kids, 7, 4 and 2. I have been lucky enough to stay home with the kids since the first one was born.
It's your all to common we began to change story. Eventually we decided it was time to call it quits New Years Eve 2003 but just couldn't bring ourselves to go through with it. One thing led to another and I ended up pregnant that night. Thank God for my baby girl but a big part of me wishes I would have wised up the next morning! (The only way I can think I would have been able to have her and still not have wasted the last 3 years.)
Since then it has been constant "I'll try harder" promises on his part and me actually being the one who is killing myself trying. Last September, he took a great promotion which would allow him to delegate and spend more time at home. The opposite happened - he is more committed to the job and less to me and the kids. He promises to be at one of the kids activities and never shows. He swears we're going to have a date and I end up going to work with him. I understand that he has to work but he makes the choice to do it all himself. The guys who work under him are more than capable.
All this time, I am feeling SOOOO alone. We live in him home town (population 1000). All of my girlfriends are the wives of his friends. Both of my sisters are in wedded bliss and don't get it and my parents think you don't break your marriage vows. So I really have NO ONE to talk to. My husband has been my best friend since the day we met. Who do you talk to when you can't talk to your best friend?
I have tried everything to communicate with him. I feel like I have to beg for his attention. I am trying to not be a burden but still remind him that I need him.
The last couple of weeks he has wanted to buy a horse (he is a true Wyoming cowboy/team roper - I hate it but that's what he loves and so I have always supported it) He got a new truck last summer and I bought him a horse a few years ago for our anniversary. Now, as I said, he needs a new horse he thinks. I decide that this may be another opportunity to show my support and not only supported that but took it a step further and bought him a new saddle other stuff for Valentine's Day. (For those of you who don't know that's being supportive the tune of $2000!!!)
NOTHING!!! I got a casual "thanks" and that's it. He then spent $10,000 of our money earmarked for bills and the kids on this horse!!! And is acting like a spoiled child. Now all of a sudden he has free time from work and spends it with the horse!
I have had it!!! I love him (or the person I know he has been) but I cannot live with someone who doesn't even notice I'm alive. Here is my problem - as I mentioned, I have been a stay at home mom pretty much our entire married life. The cars, house, and even the checking account are in his name only. I always thought that he made the money so... I have had access to the money when I use the debit card but that's it. And obviously that will end if I try to leave. I might sound naive but I really don't think he isolated me like this on purpose. However, it will be really convenient if we split.
I am so scared. I would love to try to save this yet again but he just doesnt want to put in the effort and I can't take anymore empty promises - to me or my kids.
I really think I am SOL. I have no money, am pretty much unemployable, and very very alone.
Does anyone have any experience with the unemployable stay at home parent situation???
Thanks - if you made it all the way through! It helped a little to put it in print but I am still terrified.
AloneInWyo
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Curmudgeon
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 2002
Loc: MO Ozarks
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Being a single, divorced mother with no particular job skills is a tough row to hoe but it's doable. You'll receive child support and, depending upon the laws of your state, could entitled to half the marital assets (including the second horse, the first one being a gift to him). You may also be entitled to a short period of spousal support to permit school or job training. If he has a retirement account, IRAs, 401(k), etc. You will be entitled to a portion of those for the years you've been married.
It can be done, but don't expect it to be easy.
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What me worry. I'm retired!
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AloneInWyo
recently joined
Reged: 02/24/07
Posts: 9
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I love your signature! My fear is how hard it will be.
We have spent the ENTIRE day arguing. I left out so many details (was long winded enough) He absolutely refuses to take any responsibility and doesn't see why him working much for the money isn't enough. I am so exhausted!
The last thing he said to me was "if I change, can you love me again?" I never stopped but I have to protect my heart. So many broken promises has taught me he will not put in his fair share of effort. Do I dare give him yet another shot? I want to save this but am not sure there is anything left to save and think maybe we should call it off before we hate eachother. My main concern right now is to remain as civil as possible because we will always have three kids together!
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RyanA
recently joined
Reged: 02/08/07
Posts: 11
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Alone, I happen to live in Wyoming also and am currently going through a divorce after repeated attempts at "saving" our marriage. My wife could basically switch places with your husband in regards to what i get back in the relationship and her rampant spending without thinking of consequences.
Im still in the first stages of the divorce and think that I'm not the right person to give you insight at this time as to what you should do but I can say that I've heard the "i can change" routine so much it makes me sick. For I know that if the person doesnt really want to change..they wont..ever.That is totally my opinion and point of view from my experience.
However, I read a Book called "Love Must Be Tough" by James Dobson ,Im not trying to push any book i can say that this in some way has helped me and I believe that if you want marriage to be saved then its worth a look. It didnt work for me but I now see my wife as totally mentally unstable.
I, like yourself am unemployed and am currently looking after my five year old beautiful little daughter and also am a full-time student at C.C. so Im experiencing the "lack of income" fear with leaving, but I will tell you that our state is wonderful when it comes to helping out single parents with children. It took me all of 4 days to get my PayWest card, medical insurance, and daycare assistance from the DFS. That even exceeded my expectations.
It was hard for me to look elsewhere other than my wife for support but I had to make that decision based on whats best for my little girl. I did this while still technically being married all with out my wifes name anywhere on the DFS paperwork.
So i hope that this can at least give you solace in the fact that THERE IS SUPPORT in our state and it came come fast. You will be supported by our great state in your time of need until you can learn a trade or just stay home with the kids.
I can also tell you that our state does not have alimony yet looks at all assets and debts of the marriage and splits them 50% regardless of who "earns" the money or who accumulates the debt.
Good luck and remember your NOT truly AloneInWyo although it may seem like it now.
Edited by RyanA (02/24/07 09:21 PM)
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AloneInWyo
recently joined
Reged: 02/24/07
Posts: 9
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Ryan A
I too am taking courses at CC although I am using distance ed. I was supposed to be done this semester but it doesn't look good.
I wasn't sure about the Paywest, child care, etc. Don't I have to mention his income in the paperwork? I haven't left yet. Do I need to leave first and then head to DFS? I hate to do that too but I am going to need help getting on my feet. I have three kids to care for.
Are you going to try to stay in school full time w/o working? I didn't think I had that option. The plan for for me to finish my degree and care for the kids through their early years. Obviously plans change.
You really did help me feel less alone.
Any tips you can give about getting help with that stuff would be greatly appreciated. I have no idea where to begin.
Thanks for reaching out
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AloneInWyo
recently joined
Reged: 02/24/07
Posts: 9
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RyanA
One other thing I didn't mention is that I don't want anything - well, my car would be nice. The house, truck, horse trailer, horses, etc. he can have it all! I want the kids and with his job, he cannot commit to caring for them except financially and his few days off. So how do you think the judge would handle that? And what happens when it is nothing but debt??? I assumed that if he keeps the house, truck, etc he has to make the payments. In turn, I assumed that if I want my car, I have to make those payments - yikes.
Basically does anyone know what happens when I don't even want 50%?
Can anyone shed some light? (I think I am going to post this under the financial forum too so sorry if you get this twice)Thanks
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shohn
member
Reged: 11/24/06
Posts: 185
Loc: Texas
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Do you really want to save it? I can tell you that it is definitely worth it, but sometimes it takes a man awhile to finally change or he needs to get hit over the head with a 2X4. Many of us simply don't understand what women are asking for until we get papers filed on us. There is no reason to push it that far if you love him - there are IMHO better ways of doing this.
Is his mother or dad around?
Is he just a basic workaholic - doesn't make it right that he works all the time, but you do know that this is sometimes a man's way of saying I love you. Check out "just for women" - another fine book.
I've never read the dobson books, but everyone I know who has read them said they helped out quite a bit. I read "The 5 love languages" by Gary chapman and a couple others.
Also, you may ask him this or have someone ask for you:
"Is working so hard for the family going to help anything if he loses his family?".
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RyanA
recently joined
Reged: 02/08/07
Posts: 11
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My thoughts echo yours to the letter. I also dont want the "things", i dont want anything but my girl. And deep down i still want her. I can also say that in Wyoming all couples must attempt mediation before going to court. Because if you get to the point of divorce our state will let the couples decide who gets what and who gets whom. And if then it that fails then the courts will decide. This is what my lawyer told me.
What i was saying is that stay or go you have options. I told my wife give me the rights to the child and Ill take the debts for my wife cannot support my child with her job either. There are options even with seemingly insurmountable amounts of debt. Im saying look past the debt and the material things cause they will only cloud your vision, they are just more "things". Worry about whats important and you seem to be doing so.
I also agree with shohn, love and marriage are worth fighting for, so fight tooth and nails, but not at the expense of losing respect and dignity for yourself anymore. And being a man I can say that I would never work so hard to support my children and wife that I never get to see them or enjoy the best parts of the married life. But I can also say that I think my wife worked a little to hard because she really wanted not to see me.
Money is money but LOVE is LOVE. Love can bring you things money never ever can. For when all the money is gone or never there to begin with, true love and attention still makes you rich.
And thats just my take.
Edited by RyanA (02/24/07 11:21 PM)
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AloneInWyo
recently joined
Reged: 02/24/07
Posts: 9
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I understand that this is how he shows he cares about his family but I have said exactly that... keep it up and you won't have us around waiting at the door.
So I mentioned we have been "talking" all day and now into the night. I really thought we were getting somewhere and then the phone rang. It was work. Got the discussion back on track and then HE FELL ASLEEP! I'm exhausted too but c'mon! You'd think his marriage might be worth losing a little sleep over.
See what I mean? This is how he is. I am so tired of feeling like I'm not worth the time. I am wore out too everyday. Being a stay at home mom is not as easy as a lot of people think and a full time student too. Not to mention it is exhausting being the only one who has been trying to make this marriage work for so long. But don't think for a second that I would ever nod off if he showed the slightest interest in me at all!
There isn't a glimpse left of the man I married and I can't seem to find the girl I was back then either.
Hey, Shohn, got any 2x4's handy? I really am not sure if even that would work!
I am on the edge here. I cannot keep this up much longer.
I have spent this entire day, like many before, crying to him. Spelling it out. Nothing but "I don't want you to go. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
What does he expect me to do???
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Fab
newbie
Reged: 11/08/06
Posts: 37
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AloneInWyo, I have an idea to suggest to you. I know it must be hard for you to stay, but what if you spend your time focusing on yourself, making yourself strong and confident, and then you face your potential divorce.
The “I don't want anything” attitude is not good for you. The feelings you are having right now will pass, and you will be let with nothing. Actually, if you get divorced, and he gets a girlfriend, it will upset you that another woman is living in your house, bla bla bla.
It seems to me that you still love him, maybe even more than yourself. Take a break of all these problems, take your mind to some other places, you can even take a break of him.
Maybe you should wait until you graduate and get a job. You have put 8 years of your life on this relationship, during this time he has grown professionally, in part because of your support. It’s not fair for you to leave with nothing.
PS. Who cares what he expects you to do? – Got the idea?
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shohn
member
Reged: 11/24/06
Posts: 185
Loc: Texas
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I'm going to be a little frank, but just realize I try to see both sides okay. This stuff is very common and he sounds like many men that I know. His way of showing he cares is probably different from what you are expecting and all of us are selfish to some degree. He is taking care of you and supporting you - when is the last time you thanked him for that? I know you need emotional support as well, but that takes lots of time or a really big 2X4 to wake him up. The risk is if you hit too hard - congratulations - you just broke up your family because your man was being a fairly typical man.
You are assuming he doesn't care based on your standards of behavior, but where does he lay his head at night? Just something to think about.
Now then, obviously whatever it is you are doing isn't working. Let me ask you this - did he or your marriage come with an owner's manual?
Do you believe in God?
Please let me know which books you have studied about marriage before we proceed and the answer to the previous question....
I usually come off fairly abrasive, so don't think of this as a personal assault on your character okay...
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Annie7676
old hand
Reged: 06/05/05
Posts: 862
Loc: NY
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Have you considered counseling? To contrast and please don't take this the wrong way. I have been a single parent for the past 7 yrs and the primary wage earner and its hard to keep it all together to work and take care of a family. Yes you work very very very hard at being a SAHM, but have you considered the ramifications of your loneliness? If you get divorced, yes you will get probably alimony and child support but that may not be enough and then you too will probably have to get a job outside the home with 3 kids and that will be very tough and unless you have childcare it could get to be very expensive. You say he works hard well maybe his job demands it...maybe he has to stay on the top of his game, most of us have to be competent at work and cannot always delegate, the people who get delegated no matter how competent start to resent it.
I feel for you but it sounds like he has provided pretty well for you and the family and if you still love him then maybe try some counseling and get your marriage back on track. Can you plan a weekend getaway?
The grass is not always greener on the other side and once you are out of your marriage, there may be no turning back. My friend did this, left her hardworking husband who was a good provider and he worked hard, it has been very difficult for her since then and she regrets it big time. Her X while devastated at first, is now remarried and it broke her heart.
Marriage is tough and equally difficult when kids are involved...maybe both of you can try counseling together... what about a part time job or some thing you do for you...to keep you from feeling so lonely....
And if you try counseling and try to save your marriage and you still feel the best is to leave it then I wish you all the luck in the world...being a single mom with 3 kids will be very tough even with financial support from what would be your X.
Divorce is really sad and very hard...
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AloneInWyo
recently joined
Reged: 02/24/07
Posts: 9
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In response to the replies that you have all been so kind to provide...
He has played the counseling card so many times. He has said "let me do this" meaning he would check around for a recommendation and then make the appointment. I agree and then that's as far as it goes. It seems like he thinks if he just SAYS he'll make the effort that's good enough.
I can't say enough how much I appreciate him working so hard and I have told him repeatedly. My problem is how he spends him time when he's not at work. It's not with me. I have tried to plan weekend getaways but his work phone goes with us. Literally EVERY time I have tried to be intimate, he has to take a call. He makes the choice to take the calls on nights and weekends. I understand that the guys he supervises don't want the hours either but I have stuck with him while he has paid his dues on his way up. He is second in charge at his local office and his guys love working for him because he doesn't make them do their job! I have explained to him that all of the things that his guys love about him being their supervisor are the exact same things that are hurting his marriage. Yes there are times when he has to be committed. I know he can't come home to hold my hand at noon on Tuesday, but it's not fair that I should get stood up by my husband on Saturday evening. By the way, money isn't the issue - he's on salary!
I know going from SAHM to single mom of 3 will be SOOOOO hard. And I know that so many people have it so much worse. He doesn't hit me or cheat but, and please forgive me if I sound like a whiner, but I need more. We used to be partners in everything. I know he is capable of it - I know WE are! But he has to want it too.
I DO love him - yes, probably more than myself. I would love to take time for myself but I have my own resposibilites - my kids. I think they are suffering too mach the way it is. I don't think it's fair to say "sorry! I need some mommy time!" They, especially the 7 yr old, have way to many questions and I have to be there to make sure they are OK and left out of the gory details as much as possible.
I have been struggling with my personal relationship with God. My faith has been tested in ways other than this situation. I was just telling him this morning that the two issues really complicate eachother. When my marriage stuggles, I have turned to my faith in God. When I have struggled with my faith, I have turned to my husband.
I do try to see his position in all of this and that is why it has gone this far - I kept my mouth shut too long.
I know the struggles I face - stay or go. I don't think for a second it will be easy at all.
Thanks all - I have finally reached out to a mutual friend (all of our friends are mutual friends) and got some guidance from him. I want you all to know how much I appreciate your no holds barred advice!
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AloneInWyo
recently joined
Reged: 02/24/07
Posts: 9
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We have set a goal... our first of hopefully many.
We have agreed, as I read in someone else's post, to set up a time frame after which we will reevaluate.
We are giving it 5 months. Aug 1st. I figure by then we'll have some idea. He has never stuck with it anywhere near that long. I don't mean to sound pesimistic but it's true. Anyway, that is the maximum amount of time I can give it and still have enough time to get the kids moved before a new school year.
I know it's not fair to have a contingency plan hanging over our heads but I need to feel prepared too.
Wish us luck. an love.
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HO2
member
Reged: 08/14/06
Posts: 178
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Dear AloneinWyo,
Whenever people are in a non-abusive relationship and talk about how they envisage a divorce for the sake of their kids' happiness, that really gives me a pause. My father was very much like your husband in that he worked too much and was loved by the people he worked for, because he did their jobs, too. Interestingly, I felt like the happiest child on earth, because my mother who had been married to an irresponsible, permanently underemployed, 'romancing the bottle' loser before, ADORED my father and made us kids worship him and feel very very special and blessed. You have a big role in how your children feel about their dad and their family. I hope you know that.
I can't help feeling that your 'I need to leave, otherwise I will be unhappy and lonely forever' attitude suggests that you assume that there is a crowd of guys out their waiting to do both romance you and take on three small kids that are NOT theirs in addition to an Ex whom you left - not because you could not stand spending time with him but - because your most urgent desire was to spend MORE TIME with him. That would be a HUGE RED FLAG for most men I know. Shohn said it before, your husband is no different from most men out there. In fact your problem is so common you could just dial a random number and would probably end up talking to someone who 'has been there, done that'.
Anyway, I don't think you realize what the dating scene for a single working mother of three is like. The truth is there are lots of creeps out there who think that a woman in this sad & vulnerable situation is the easiest prey and will be most grateful for a little attention, because it is so hard to come by between a full-time job and three little ones. Many women find that while the creeps are still available, the 'Prince Charmings' are already married, often to unhappy SAHMs who make their lives soooo miserable, they end up in a 'real soulmate' office affair. There are many sad heart-breaking cycles in today's world. All that in quest for a HAPPIER LIFE.
On another note, you seem to be so sure that because your husband works so hard, he would never be able to wrest away custody from you. But you are forgetting that you would end up working equally hard. I know at least two women by now who lost custody to the father who got remarried to another SAHM and was able to prove that the kids would have more consistency and more of a family life with him than with the stressed out mother who had to put the kids here and there just to be able to keep her job.
I am saying all this, because I feel that in this very situation you are describing your attitude and your 'ultimatum' approach are wrong. Working on a marriage is not about ushering out ultimatums and giving a list of criteria to your spouse which has to meet in a time frame you set up for him. While this approach may be the right one with an abuser or someone involved in an affair, I feel it is not the right one for someone who has to find a balance between his job and his family life.
One thing for sure, being the only provider for a family of 5 is a huge responsibility and puts a lot of pressure on your husband. If you want your husband to be able to relax about his job, you have to take up a job yourself as soon as possible. Plus I feel you should follow the very old grandma advice about how to change your husband's behaviour for the better: 'Whenever he shows behaviour you like, you let him know just how very much you like it.' That is being supportive. Nagging, crying, threatening after a period of swallowing too much is NEVER the solution and is not the way to be 'supportive' of someone who tries to change things that are not easy to change.
I don't think you need luck. I think you have a lot of luck. What you will need is love and patience and I wish you tons of that.
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AloneInWyo
recently joined
Reged: 02/24/07
Posts: 9
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HO2-
Ya know what??? I never expected to get everyone to say "oh poor you". As a matter of fact, I have been grateful to the people who have helped me face some hard facts.
You, however, are completely out of line! What exactly IN YOUR PROFOUND EXPERIENCE gives you the right to make people feel the way that you do? Do you seriously think that in the posts I have put up in the last two days tells you everything you need to know about my life??? Many of us came here for support and guidance. Notice I am under the "saving your marriage" forum. What business is it of yours that my husband and I together decided to take baby steps and set a goal that we are comfortable with. I mentioned that we hope that it is one step to get to the greater goal. I certainly apologize if you aren't comfortable with OUR decisions.
If you actually read my posts you would see that I never said I was leaving for the benefit of my kids. I said I am trying to leave my kids out of it as much as possible.
I want to thank everyone who gave me a place to present my thoughts and gave me great feedback, positive and the hard to hear stuff. Especially RyanA and Shohn. I wish you all the best.
As for HO2, you never shared your personal experiences as reinforcement. You simply knocked both me and my husband down. Seriously!!! That's how you support people going through rough times. GET OVER YOURSELF!!!
I think, thanks to you, I have had all the "support" I can take.
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HO2
member
Reged: 08/14/06
Posts: 178
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I have given you all my personal experience.
My husband works all the time. My Dad worked all the time. My brother works all the time. All my girl-friends' husband work all the time.
I was talking from experience.
You must be in a weird mood to feel knocked over by what I wrote.
I am sorry you feel this way. I wish you all the best anyway.
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HO2
member
Reged: 08/14/06
Posts: 178
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>What business is it of yours that my husband and I together decided to take baby steps and set a goal that we are comfortable with.
Girl, RELAX! Your twisting the words in my mouth. I think it is great you are trying to solve things. I only think that you will need more time to change your situation and you will need a much more positive attitude.
I see my husband 6-8 days a month, I know how it feels to want to throw in the towel. So, don't think I was just pretending I know what you are talking about.
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Annie7676
old hand
Reged: 06/05/05
Posts: 862
Loc: NY
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I dont think that HO2 was being too harsh, realistic yes. Your first post said you are fed up with your living situation and you shared some details. The reality is that yes you are unhappy with your spouse so if you decide to end you marriage divorce will change your life radically. You may not have the opportunity to continue to be a SAHM anymore. I am not saying anything negative there either but just being realistic. Leaving a marriage is a serious consideration. Saving your marriage is another serious consideration. I have been a SAHM and a woman who works full time...and like H02 indicated its tough being the primary breadwinner for 5 people. If you love your husband then counseling may just be what he will have to do in order to get you both back on track. I think one of your posts indicates he doesn't go...because of work...well if the marriage is important then he will need to go. And yes maybe taking time for you and him is important. Your kids will survive one night away from you - at this venture its important to save your marriage. I know what its like to put kids, house, errands, kids activities in the way of a marriage and looking back because I am divorced ...it was not a good thing. Man and wife need to take time for each other...they need to keep or better CHERISH that love, that committment and keep that chemistry going. If you can figure that out maybe it will help.
Divorce is really tough...just look at the child support and alimony boards here...once you decide as you posted you are fed up and want out your life will change drastically. For you it may be a good thing...it sounds like it but for many day to day living as a single parent with three kids becomes very difficult.
And yes we on the boards do give advice and sometimes it seems harsh but then we are not in your situation, only hear your side and have no vested interest...just trying to help from our experience. If one marriage can be saved then its worth it.
I sincerely hope that things work out for you.
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shohn
member
Reged: 11/24/06
Posts: 185
Loc: Texas
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Make sure he understands what the word "support" means. Not just the words, but what it makes you feel like when you are not supported and that you need that just as much as probalby needs sex. Ask him how would he feel to go without sex for 8 years and maybe then he'll understand if you convert it to "mananese". Support was just a word my wife would toss around at me and I never understood what it meant - it didn't make me a bad guy neccesarily, just a man.
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WhoDaresW1ns
recently joined
Reged: 03/04/07
Posts: 19
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I am not sure your stuck, but it might qualify for a wedgie! Just kidding.
I read your post and I think that one common goalyou should both have is to read The Five Love Languages By Gary Chapman. I believe you will both learn a great deal from this resource, regarding yourselves, and each other. I found this helpful in my own marriage (now going on 13 years).
Sincerely,
WhoDaresW1ns
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