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focusedon2
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Concerned about what children see as normal
      #229988 - 05/02/07 09:24 PM

My Mom is always asking me what my ex thinks he is teaching my children by his behavior.

My ex himself used to always say that he wanted the girls to think it's "normal" for a man to buy you flowers on Valentine's Day and to open your door for you and, basically, to treat you right. So he would do these things for my daughters because he wanted to set the example of "what is right".

So then he cheats on his wife, has another child while still married, leaves home and basically spends his time between 2 families.

So I wonder what my girls are going to look for in a husband. I wonder if they will look for a husband. I wonder if they will see anything wrong in being the OW or in being adulterous. Why should they?

I had just assumed that my children would see a "loving, committed relationship" as normal but that seems to be out of the question now.

Do you worry about what your children will see as "normal" when they are adults? Do you worry that a negative pattern has been established for your family that will most likely follow your family from one generation to the next? Do you even see this as a negative pattern or this just a part of our changing times?


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Gecko
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: focusedon2]
      #229996 - 05/02/07 09:38 PM

Do you worry about what your children will see as "normal" when they are adults?

---> No, because I have done my best to teach them about life in general, what good/bad relationships are about, what to look for and expect and demand out of life.

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JennyLynn
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: Gecko]
      #229997 - 05/02/07 09:40 PM

Hell...my dad is the most traditional gentleman you'd ever meet...the kindest, unselfish, hardworking, hell of a guy...and look who I ended up with. :)

We can only hope and pray our children see what is right. Normalcy is relative...just do the best you can and pray they'll make the right decisions as they get older. :)


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preemiemom
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: focusedon2]
      #230004 - 05/02/07 09:52 PM

YES!!!! I totally worry about that. I very much believe that children repeat the patterns that they see their parents, and other extended relatives, live.

While I am the first person in my family to ever GET divorced, I definately gravitated towards partners, at least, that subconsciously I intended with one of my parents. The one person that I did go out of pattern with that on, I divorced.. but largely due to... familial dysfunction that interfered with our relationship and my own issues.

Other relationships? Former SO's who were more controlling, manipulative, openly abusive.. like my mom.

My stbx? TOTALLY my father. Basically a GOOD person, but seriously lacking in intersocial skills, totally incapable of managing his own life and needing a mate to guide him through successfully, passive aggressive personified, and even down to the lack of desire for intimacy (which was a little scary actually, THAT I had no idea would happen).

Mind you, I was okay with much of what I saw and recognized BEFORE we got married. My folks have been married 45+ years now.. their dynamic works for them. And while not probably passionately in love, they have a deep level of mutual affection and caring that has carried them through more crap than I could ever describe. And they're still together. My mother still THREATENS divorce regularly; however, I go "uh huh, whatever you want, I support" and then my dad and I email back and forth about whatever her snit is about THIS time and laugh. It's what she does, it makes her feel independent (something she is not, having been disabled since my birth in her mid 20's.. she's now 63 and more than a little resentful that her desire to BE a strong, independent woman was a bit curtailed by a disease she has no control over).

With dd, even stbx's extended family is full of split up families, the dynamics are hard to keep track of. I'm a distance from my family where they're all still together and do family holidays and whatnot and are trying to recover after years of major family dysfunction and doing quite well at it, now that the root causes are dead and buried (thank god!!!).

It's hard to say "this is what you SHOULD have" when you've shown them you can't have it for yourself, you know? If that makes sense. How do you say "you should be in a committed, loving relationship and be committed to working things out for the benefit of your family and your children" when here your children are, a product of divorce?

NOT criticizing ANYONE at all, please don't take it that way. Part of MY issue with the question is that, in my case, stbx would NOT work on our issues AT ALL, in any way shape or form, so how do I tell our daughter that you're supposed to work on things when her own parents didn't even ATTEMPT to? Just seems hypocritical to me. I guess you keep that to yourself and lie through your teeth in the name of doing the right thing, but I still think it'll ring hollow.

Ideally, I guess if your kids are a product of divorce, you're lucky enough to find THE right person for you and to be able to provide a healthy, loving, and happy home for your children to emulate, even though they are children of divorce.


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KiwiGirl
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: focusedon2]
      #230011 - 05/02/07 10:14 PM

My Miss 24 has yet to get involved in a serious relationship. She is leary of men in general because she doesn't want to get hurt like I did.

Mr 22 does not want to treat any woman like his father treated me. He is attentive and kind and a sweetheart. He just attracts bad girls. So he has sworn off girls for now. He says they are too complicated.

Miss 18... well you know HER story. Likes to think she can rescue flawed boys and make them all better. Florence Nightingale Syndrome.

Mr 15... who knows? At least I know he like girls.

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JennyLynn
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: KiwiGirl]
      #230013 - 05/02/07 10:17 PM

<<Mr 15... who knows? At least I know he like girls. >>

ROFL


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jsp
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: preemiemom]
      #230018 - 05/02/07 10:19 PM

I worry about my husband's kids but nothing can be done about it now. Mom takes up with best friend while dad got shipped for a year to Korea. They run of his wife, abuse his kids who are sent to mom via child welfare - dad comes back, move cross country lying to dad that no cheating happened - mom finally admits it, moves back cross country with boyfriend - lots more drama with mom who shuts dad out only wanting money and boyfriend is barely a father to his children (one deceased now) but helps with my husband's kids... humm... just a few worries - marriage, family values-value of fathers and other relatives, secrets (lots of them)....uggg... what a shame, but nothing you can do.

It clearly has impacted the kids - the oldest, 23 should have graduated college last spring on a full ride but somehow blew it and only goes part-time and has only gotten through about half way. At one point she had to very steady boyfriends - her home boyfriend and her college boyfriend - takes after mom as neither knew about each other for a long time. The middle one is 22 and done nothing but work at a store and piss away his money (at least save it if you are still living with mom) and the cute youngest who is a clone of my husband - I doubt he'll have much of a future as child support will stop at 18 and mom is using the money probably to pay for the oldest's school so as usual the youngest will get screwed given he has no relationship with dad and mom will not sacrifice for the kids benefit.


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JennyLynn
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: jsp]
      #230023 - 05/02/07 10:22 PM

Honestly...it's something I try not to think about often, or it'd literally drive me insane.

It worries me me severely to think that DS would ever turn out like STBX. And it worries me that DSD would ever fall for anyone like STBX.

I'm happy that DS has positive male role models in his life like my dad and my brother in law, and I can tell you right now he will always respect women or he'll GET it from me!!


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Avaya
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: focusedon2]
      #230082 - 05/03/07 08:54 AM

Absolutely, I worry! I think dad's should exhibit gentlemanly behavior so that their son's learn how to be MEN and so that their daughters learn what to look for in a husband. I think that women should be WOMEN (girly, feminine) so that their daughter's learn how to be WOMEN and so that their son's know what to look for in a wife.

My husband isn't very sensitive and I think boys and girls need to see that in a man also. BM is the 'man' in the family and I don't think that's a great example to my SD. Dad isn't 'boss' to SD and I think he should be. In our home, they see that dad wears the pants and IMO that is important. But sometimes he's bossY and I think that is detrimental to the kids. There's got to be a happy medium that I don't think he's caught on to yet. But like a good wife, I'm going to let him learn from his mistakes. One awesome thing they are learning from dad is that he's a strong man of his word who has high principles and stands by what is right regardless of it's popularity. They don't always appreciate that right now, but one day they will. They understand that people make mistakes and that a small handful of seemingly harmless mistakes is why our family is made up as it is today. They know that and hopefully it can be used as a tool to teach them better rather than give them an excuse not to strive for their full potential.

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Witch23
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: Avaya]
      #230092 - 05/03/07 09:14 AM

It is a concern for me. Not about my relationship, but about society in general. We have become so desensitized to things and view things as normal when 15 years ago that wasn't the case.

Example: Our kids (high school students) had a talent show a couple of days ago. They sang and danced. Normal right??? Not so much....the were so sexual in nature... girls that I swear could work a pole if asked.....MTV videos in our auditorium. I would never in high thought is was OK to dance like that. I'm only 33. A teacher left b/c he said he felt violated.

They are learning so much at an earlier age. I don't think that they have the maturity to deal with it.


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leegirl
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: Witch23]
      #230096 - 05/03/07 09:22 AM

[quote]It is a concern for me. Not about my relationship, but about society in general. We have become so desensitized to things and view things as normal when 15 years ago that wasn't the case. [/quote]

-----> That is my concern too, it is not only what happens in your home but what happens in the general society. In the past parents could push things under the carpet and hide it, never to speak of it but now parents HAVE to talk to their children. Parents have to teach their kids values and attitudes and not hope for the best. If something wrong happens whether it is at home or outside, you must let them know that this is wrong or not the ideal. You have to teach what normal is and if you are not living "normal" then you have a bit more work to do but you had better do it.

-----> I think it is much harder to be a parent now then it was in the past.

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Witch23
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: Witch23]
      #230103 - 05/03/07 09:33 AM

"It's hard to say "this is what you SHOULD have" when you've shown them you can't have it for yourself, you know? If that makes sense. How do you say "you should be in a committed, loving relationship and be committed to working things out for the benefit of your family and your children" when here your children are, a product of divorce?"
----->PM, Just because they are the product of divorce does not mean that they can't see or learn about love and committment. Just look at what you have done for your D. You are sacrificing and 110% committed to being the best mom that you can. I know that it is TOOOO soon to think about relationships and you have said NO mORE for you, but maybe eventually you will find someone who deserves you and your generous, caring, and thoughtful qualities. When that time comes do not turn it away. That will show your D that you trust men. You don't want her to believe or think that men can't be trusted. True not all can, but there are good ones out there.


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spinnerdegrassi
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: leegirl]
      #230105 - 05/03/07 09:33 AM

I wouldn't worry about it that much. I look at my own family. Both parents married 3 times, terrible examples of being role models at it applied to marriage. Yet here are my siblings and myself, all in our mid 30's, all on our 1st marriages, no divorces, everything stable (at least for now as I see it) So far the shortest marriage has been 8 years.

We didn't internalize our parents failures and see it as a cause and effect syndrome that would preclude us from succeeding in our own. In fact, we probably learned a few things from it

A: Don't get married young. We all married between ages 28-29. We also dated our spouses for reasonable time periods. I was with my wife 3.5 years before marrying, my oldest sister 5 years with hers, and my middle sister 7 years with her before deciding to marry.

B: Don't marry apathetic lumps with no motivation. My mother fit that bill, and we saw nothing appealing about having a spouse who was not inclined to do much with their lives

C: There's an order to life. Education, Marriage then maybe kids. We figured it was a sensible approach to take, despite others going in other directions.

All in all, kids with integrity will persevere even with crap going on around them. Those with weak dispositions, even living in the best of circumstances will still find failure.


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elliesmom
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: spinnerdegrassi]
      #230139 - 05/03/07 11:30 AM

Well, my father cheated on my mother, left her for the OW, lived with her for a couple years before moving on to a seemingly endless string of skinny blonds until he met and married his current wife a few years ago.

What did I learn? Well, I knew I never wanted to be like my mother. Our household fell apart if Dad was one day late with the CS check. I swore I would never rely on anyone else for my survival and I would never have kids unless I could support them without a dime from their other parent. I was always told that my parents divorced because they married too young (until this was corrected later with the truth RE the affair) so I was determined to not marry until I was at least 25 (I didn't). I was also convinced that I didn't need to marry to have a full life. I decided I would rather be alone than married to the wrong person who'd screw me over in the end.

So I went to college and go an engineering degree - I have no doubt that come what may I could take care of myself. Before my husband I had few serious relationships. I was quick to end a relationship if the person didn't suit me. After all, I didn't need a husband and I certainly wasn't settling for a fixer upper. If it wasn't fun anymore - it was over. Once I was about 22 I decided that IF I ever married it would have to be to someone who I knew understood and agreed with my sentiments on marriage. That divorce isn't an option - working it out is the only option. And someone I could trust would come to me with problems instead of screwing around to make a point. I felt like I met that person in DH. He was cheated on, raped in court, but still not bitter. He was resolute about doing his best to make the situation better, without dwelling on his problems. He was open and interested in my ideas on how he could be a better NCP - since I myself had one and his parents were still married. I saw him take my ideas and run with them - being a good parent was his number 1 priority. Being good to me was a close second. So in him I saw what I was looking for. Someone who could handle my big ball of crazy. LOL.

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Gecko
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: Witch23]
      #230164 - 05/03/07 01:04 PM

It is a concern for me. Not about my relationship, but about society in general. We have become so desensitized to things and view things as normal when 15 years ago that wasn't the case.

---> Oh Gawd...ain't that the truth!!! When I was in high school (late 70s)...

- if a girl got pregnant, she was required to leave once she "show"...TODAY, they have day care centers in the schools.

- NOBODY "explored their sexual identity"...we KNEW what it was and acted appropriately (*grin*)...girls dated boys and boys dated girls...TODAY, you have boys necking with boys and girls necking with girls in the hallways and it's "OK".

- a lot of guys carried knives on their belts or in their pockets and NOBODY got stabbed! The ONLY "guns" we brought to school where water pistols.

- sure we pushed the line on "dress codes" and general "behavior" and WE got nailed for it...nobody sued the school for infringing upon our "rights"...we were kids, we didn't have any.

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Avaya
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: Gecko]
      #230179 - 05/03/07 01:49 PM

That just goes to show you that when you get comfortable with sin, it just gets worse and worse. Our Sunday School lesson this week is on sexual sins. One of the questions in the 'homework' worksheet is 'is sexual sin worse today that it was in biblical times.' My answer is No, it's the same, it's just more 'out there'. You see it on TV, in magazines, on the internet. It's become socially acceptable because we're forced to see it everywhere. Back in 'the day', people had the decency to be embarassed about their sexual sins.

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Gecko
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: Avaya]
      #230213 - 05/03/07 03:00 PM

'is sexual sin worse today that it was in biblical times.'

---> I have to say yes for the very reasons you say no...because of the fact that adultery and homosexuality has become socially and morally acceptable...even in the "church".

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Avaya
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: Gecko]
      #230214 - 05/03/07 03:02 PM

I think they did it just as much then, they just hid it because they KNEW it was wrong. Today, society is teaching that it isn't wrong, so they don't have to hide it. 'whatever feels good', that's what society is teaching is 'right'.

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Gecko
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: Avaya]
      #230217 - 05/03/07 03:16 PM

I think they did it just as much then, they just hid it because they KNEW it was wrong.

---> Really...then explain why we have a greater problem with sexual predators today than we had thirty years ago?

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Avaya
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: Gecko]
      #230228 - 05/03/07 03:24 PM

BECAUSE, society is teaching them that they can have whatever they want to have. They think it's OKAY to prey on children because THAT will make them 'happy' and like I said society is teaching people that there is nothing wrong with whatever things make them happy.

You let a little bit of sin in and people squirm and then they adjust to it. Then you let in a little bit more. Then a little bit more. That's how you go from smoking weed to being a full out heroin adict. That's how you go from drinking a beer on the weekend, to being a rehab resident 10 months out of the year. That's how you go from blushing when you say 'darn' to sounding like you just stepped off a Navy ship after 6 months asea. That's how you go from innocent office flirting to a full fledged affair. That's how you go from fudging one little number on your taxes to doing time in Levenworth.

You let a little bit in and before long, you're comfortable with doing more and more and more until it gets out of hand. A sexual predator 30 years ago would never have been bold enough to do what they do today, because it was taboo. But then, society said it was okay to walk around half naked. Then society said it was okay to look at the pictures. They got more bold, society got more comfortable with them being bold, because heaven forbid we offend someone different than us, and then you get what you have today.

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hippie1981
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: focusedon2]
      #230321 - 05/03/07 05:54 PM

I hope my child grows up to know that 2 men together is normal, that 2 women together is normal, that having multiple partners is normal, and that its normal to not get married.

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Gecko
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: Avaya]
      #230322 - 05/03/07 05:56 PM

BECAUSE, society is teaching them that they can have whatever they want to have.

---> Huh? What does society's "teachings" have to do with your contention that the number of "sinners" has not increased?

You let a little bit of sin in and people squirm and then they adjust to it. Then you let in a little bit more. Then a little bit more. That's how you go from smoking weed to being a full out heroin adict. That's how you go from drinking a beer on the weekend, to being a rehab resident 10 months out of the year. That's how you go from blushing when you say 'darn' to sounding like you just stepped off a Navy ship after 6 months asea. That's how you go from innocent office flirting to a full fledged affair. That's how you go from fudging one little number on your taxes to doing time in Levenworth.

---> Again...what does this have to do with your statement that the number of sinners have not increased? And I'm sorry, but JUST because you smoke weed, does NOT mean that you will become a herion addict; or having a beer...which by the way, alcohol is NOT a "sin",Jesus drank a considerable amount of wine and the church uses wine to represent the blood of Christ...on the weekend is NOT going to turn you into an alcoholic; my mother used "damn" pretty frequently but never said shyt or b*tch of f*ck; I've done an awful lot of office flirting and still managed not to f*ck my boss or co-workers or the UPS man; as for "fudging" your taxes...just another stupid extreme.

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rocketgirl
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: hippie1981]
      #230329 - 05/03/07 06:14 PM

I feel sorry for your kids if you think any of that is "normal".

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focusedon2
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: focusedon2]
      #230340 - 05/03/07 06:28 PM

So I've been wondering what to say to my children about what's right and wrong - when you consider the changing times.

For example, consider this statement I found in Wikipedia...

"A contribution to the decline of "illegitimacy" had been made by increased ease of obtaining divorce. "

One of the things my mother believed in (and therefore shared with me) was that you should only have children in a committed relationship - which, of course, meant married. She also believed that, barring widowhood, you should only have children with one man - which wasn't hard if you didn't believe in divorce.

But doesn't divorce change all of that? What is the difference between having a child with a man you were never committed to and having a child with a man you are no longer committed to?

Personally, I believe that is why the stigma of illegitimacy is disappearing - not because of a new enlightenment - but because divorce evens everything out.

Edited by focusedon2 (05/03/07 06:30 PM)


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hippie1981
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: rocketgirl]
      #230383 - 05/03/07 09:22 PM

And I feel sorry for your kids if you would teach them to be prejudice and judgmental towards others.

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TGSM
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: hippie1981]
      #230389 - 05/03/07 09:27 PM

I agree with Lisa and just because our morals are different than yours doesn't make then prejudiced or judgmental...

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preemiemom
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: hippie1981]
      #230395 - 05/03/07 09:35 PM

[quote]I hope my child grows up to know that 2 men together is normal, that 2 women together is normal, that having multiple partners is normal, and that its normal to not get married. [/quote]

I wouldn't agree with the phrasing perhaps of your sentiment here; however, I would agree that I hope I raise my daughter to be TOLERANT, and ACCEPTING, of what might be considered "outside the norm".

The only thing I would definately NOT agree with is the "multiple partners is normal" philosophy. While I think the idea of having a single partner throughout your adult life is a notion that has gone by the wayside, at the same time, the idea of multiple partners, in this day and age, with so many STD's.. particularly HIV/AIDS, I think it's best to raise children that while they may not have one person who they are with "forever" or "til death do them part", that monogamy is..... safer(???)... than having multiple partners.

Someone once told me, many years ago, that I believe the Native American Indian culture (and I could have that wrong, it was a long time ago), believed that there were different partners who were right for you for the diffent seasons of your life. I think there is probably alot of truth to that.


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KiwiGirl
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Tolerance and Acceptance [Re: preemiemom]
      #230411 - 05/03/07 10:33 PM

Why? Why do some people HAVE to accept a lifestyle they do not find normal or natural? Personally I do not find the homosexual lifestyle as natural. Men and men cannot begat and neither can Roseann and Ellen. We aren't built that way. Whether people are married or not is irrespective. You cannot 'naturally' have a baby with someone the same sex as you. And isn't the whole point of life on earth is to continue your species? So what is so natural and normal about it?

Now that is my belief. Do I shun gay people? No. But I have hit the 'gay glass ceiling' before where I could not get any higher in the organisation I was in because I was not gay. I was 'boringly' married and had children. So don't tell me they are the shunned and misunderstood members of society. I have seen the nasty exclusive side of the rainbow.

It is not judgemental nor is it narrow minded. It is what I believe. Accepting every lifestyle as OK is a dangerous path to take. It is insidious and creeps into your life and then anything is acceptable and OK. We are terrified of paedophiles attacking our children but it is OK to allow the MBLA to operate?

JMHO.

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TGSM
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Re: Tolerance and Acceptance [Re: KiwiGirl]
      #230419 - 05/03/07 10:49 PM

I totally agree Dot...

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rocketgirl
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Re: Tolerance and Acceptance [Re: KiwiGirl]
      #230439 - 05/04/07 06:12 AM

Amen, sistah!

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gr8Dad
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How do they know about the cheating... [Re: focusedon2]
      #230440 - 05/04/07 06:13 AM

...and the other child?

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gr8Dad
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Actually, yes it does... [Re: TGSM]
      #230443 - 05/04/07 06:20 AM

"just because our morals are different than yours doesn't make then prejudiced or judgmental..."

Uh, yeah, it does. It YOU beleive that homosexuality is wrong, then YOU have the right to NOT practice it in your life. But to say it is wrong in GENERAL, is PREjudging someone, and preJUDGING someone is JUDGEMENTAL.

Grammatically, at least.

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focusedon2
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Re: How do they know about the cheating... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #230445 - 05/04/07 06:22 AM

How could they not know about other child? They spend time with her every weekend and during the school vacations.

They know about the cheating because he told them. Of course he didn't use that language but he had to say something to explain the presence of the other child.

He had enough respect for their intelligence, at least, to know that even a 7 year old and a 9 year old know there is something amiss if their father, whose been married to their mother all their lives, introduces them to a 3 year old sister.


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Redlegg
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Re: How do they know about the cheating... [Re: focusedon2]
      #230455 - 05/04/07 06:48 AM

Not everything is normal, two men together is not normal, sorry, but if the sun doesn't rise, thats not normal either, what you accept is your business, but when you teach your children that two men or two women being together is normal, then what do you tell them when they choose the abnormal way of being with someone of the opposite sex. A couple of reasons there may be more sinners or offenders out there is because maybe there are more people or more media exposure, the bottomline is that there are still too many. You can justify your views on homosexuality by saying its normal all you want, that doesn't make it so. What you accept and what is normal are two very different views. You have the right you that particular opinion and I do respect your right to have that opinion, but that does ntomake your view normal. As far a sbeing prjudiced, yeah, guilty, if you speaking grammatically, then I am prejudice about alot of things, of course unless you have actually committed a homosexual act, and you think its normal, then I would assume that is a prejudice all by itself. It seems unless you have absolutely no opinion you are by definition prejudical. Well then we all are and thats the way it goes.

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gr8Dad
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And if one of your children... [Re: Redlegg]
      #230458 - 05/04/07 06:59 AM

...is homosexual, will you always refer to them as "Abnormal"? Must be great living in such a home.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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rocketgirl
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Re: And if one of your children... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #230464 - 05/04/07 07:32 AM

You can still love your children, but NOT accept or condone their lifestyle, which is what would happen if one of my boys was homosexual (God forbid).

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BeckaLeigh
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: focusedon2]
      #230465 - 05/04/07 07:40 AM

In my family, there has been cheating, divorce, abuse, etc... but I fail to see how something that could hurt someone could be the norm. Him cheating on you , of course, has had an impact on all of yoru lives, but you both have to counteract that impact. You should focus on the positives, not the negatives. You may wanna tell them what a lying, cheating, sob their dad is but you cant, because he IS their dad. You try to teach them wrong from right, morals, etc... and then you turn them loose and let them make their decisions, good or bad.

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TGSM
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Re: And if one of your children... [Re: rocketgirl]
      #230471 - 05/04/07 08:13 AM

Exactly, you can still love the person and not condone the immoral actions.

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Avaya
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: hippie1981]
      #230491 - 05/04/07 08:50 AM

[quote]I hope my child grows up to know that 2 men together is normal, that 2 women together is normal, that having multiple partners is normal, and that its normal to not get married. [/quote]

Not getting married is fine, but the rest of that is not normal and I pray that your children learn that elsewhere if they're not going to learn it from you.

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Gecko
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: hippie1981]
      #230572 - 05/04/07 11:34 AM

And I feel sorry for your kids if you would teach them to be prejudice and judgmental towards others.

---> So...would I be "prejudice and judgmental" if I didn't want my kids hanging out "gangs" or junkies or pedophiles or criminals, etc?

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Gecko
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: focusedon2]
      #230595 - 05/04/07 12:03 PM

One of the things my mother believed in (and therefore shared with me) was that you should only have children in a committed relationship - which, of course, meant married.

---> I agree.

She also believed that, barring widowhood, you should only have children with one man - which wasn't hard if you didn't believe in divorce.

---> No disrespect intended towards your mother, but is her belief so strong that she would force someone to stay in an abusive marriage? How about adultery, drug/alcohol addition, incest, pedophilia?

But doesn't divorce change all of that?

---> No.

What is the difference between having a child with a man you were never committed to and having a child with a man you are no longer committed to?

---> A marriage license.

Personally, I believe that is why the stigma of illegitimacy is disappearing - not because of a new enlightenment - but because divorce evens everything out.

---> Divorce had nothing to do with "illegitmacy"...having a child out of wedlock did. My mother's first husband was a bit of a rebel rouser and he promised her that once they got married, he would never get into trouble again. He didn't keep that promise and ended up in prison and so Mom saught to have her marriage annulled. Problem was...because said annullment would erase the marriage, Mom would now be a "unwed mother" and older sister's birth certificate would have to be changed to reflect that she was "illigetimate" with "father unknown".

---> In the 1970s...as "living in sin" gain social acceptace and was no longer considered a "sin", the laws were changed to strike "illegitmacy". So it was NOT "no fault" divorce that changed things...it was society's acceptance of "living together WITHOUT benefit of marriage"...or "domestic partnerships" as they are politically correctly called these day...that has contributed to the decline.

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elliesmom
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: hippie1981]
      #230602 - 05/04/07 12:09 PM

I hope to teach my children that certain things are wrong and immoral, but above all else they should treat people with kindness - regardless of their morality, the way they look, etc. Because that is a part of my morals as well. Instructing your kids that something is wrong does not necessarily mean giving them carte blanche to treat someone like a POS. At least it doesn't have to be.

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rocketgirl
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: elliesmom]
      #230610 - 05/04/07 12:13 PM

I agree, Elliesmom... 100%.

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Diplomacy - the art of telling someone to go to hell, and them looking forward to the trip.


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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: elliesmom]
      #230665 - 05/04/07 01:57 PM

I hope to teach my children that certain things are wrong and immoral, but above all else they should treat people with kindness - regardless of their morality, the way they look, etc.

---> Hate the sin, not the sinner. One of SO's brothers is gay...we still love him; my best friend's son is gay...we still love him; my oldest daughter has a girlfriend...we still love her.

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rocketgirl
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Re: Concerned about what children see as normal [Re: Gecko]
      #230779 - 05/04/07 03:48 PM

But do you condone their lifestyle?

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Re: How do they know about the cheating... [Re: Redlegg]
      #230804 - 05/04/07 04:20 PM

I don't refer to him as my normal child now,I just refer to him as my child, so I guess I wouldn't call him abnormal, but I would surely tell him it is abnormal behavior, and if you think that being gay is normal, well we can do nothing but respect your opinion. If you want to practice homosexuality in your home because its normnal, thats fine also, but do you really think its so bad growing up in a home where you teach that homosexuality is abnormal, vs. you saying its normal, but don't practice it. Homosexuality and heterosexuality cannot both be normal, so which one do you really think is normal.

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