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MTmom
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What would you do?
      #417988 - 06/23/08 05:58 PM

Out of curiosity - how would each of you react to this:

First off - I know my x and his wife are having problems.. and I know she's left a few times now. Ex and I get along famously when she's not around.. so her leaving isn't all that bad in my book, except that it will reduce the amount of time my ds spends w/ his sibling.

With that said, I've discovered that x and sm are having more problems that I'd thought. In fact, they have several "domestic" incident reports on file with their sheriff based on problems they've had both in their home and out in public recently.

These incident reports are public record. All I have to do is write to the sheriff and ask for copies.

Would you request the copies? We are not involved w/ court proceedings at this time.. but if we are again in the future and if SM is still around.. I think I'd like to have them in my files.

but then I can't help but feel like I'm doing something underhanded or sneaky towards x by requesting them. From what I've heard so far.. none of the incidents were when ds was there..


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Misslisa1017
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Re: What would you do? [Re: MTmom]
      #417994 - 06/23/08 06:18 PM

But that'as not to say they couldn't escalate and happen eventually while he is there. Hopefully it won't come to that.

Do you think it could? That would be my concern, the future.


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cincsu
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Re: What would you do? [Re: MTmom]
      #418029 - 06/23/08 07:11 PM

if i were to tell you what i believe others have told me on this board in the past is that you should mind your own business because it isn't your household and it hasn't happened with your children there - that is what i was told. however, you are a BM so i am sure you will get just the opposite answer.

now, in our situation SS was being driven by a man that had had 4 DUIs plus got arrested while SS was in the car for driving on a suspended license to DUI. BMs husband was also on house arrest for beating his ex wife more than once.

_________________________________________________________

my personal opinion is that when there is a court case it is always better to have more documentation than less and to have copies of everything you can get your hands on because you never know when it will be important. it may come up 10 years from now and by then it could be more difficult and too late to get the documents. they are public record so get them...even if you don't do anything with them.

now, from the standpoint of our custody evaluator, it obviously didn't make much of an impact that BM thought it was okay to expose SS to a habitual drunk or a beater....so, from your standpoint i don't know how much of a difference it would make either unless the evaluators are just as biased as others i run into. then again, you're the BM so it may make all the difference in your case.

--------------------
wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453


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preemiemom
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Re: What would you do? [Re: cincsu]
      #418035 - 06/23/08 07:22 PM

It seems that it's not affecting your child.. it's not happening when he's there. None of your concern (but you can cross your fingers she goes away permanently if you like, lol... you're allowed!).

If child came home and said he was witnessing fights that involved police, then yes.. that involves the child, that would cause me concern and I'd address it first with my ex.. let him know it's public record and give him the opportunity to turn the info over voluntarily before I just got it from the public source. Hopefully, by doing so, that would put the fear in him to make sure he kept his problems under wraps while child was around.


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PrincessJ
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Re: What would you do? [Re: MTmom]
      #418039 - 06/23/08 07:25 PM

Were their charges filed? Anyone arrested? I didn't know they kept records of every "incident". I'd be curious to see what the ex's address had on file...

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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
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katiefedup
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Re: What would you do? [Re: MTmom]
      #418042 - 06/23/08 07:30 PM

If it isn't happening around your children then butt out. Once your children see or are exposed to it then let your ex know your feelings and move forward.

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cincsu
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Re: What would you do? [Re: katiefedup]
      #418052 - 06/23/08 07:37 PM

i disagree because by the time her children are exposed to it then it may be too late. i think she needs to get the documentation and keep it on file because one never knows when or why it will be needed in the future. if it is public record there is nothing sneaky about it.

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wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453


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PrincessJ
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Re: What would you do? [Re: MTmom]
      #418054 - 06/23/08 07:38 PM

who are you hurting getting the info? its public knowledge.

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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey


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preemiemom
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Re: What would you do? [Re: cincsu]
      #418056 - 06/23/08 07:41 PM

[quote]i disagree because by the time her children are exposed to it then it may be too late. i think she needs to get the documentation and keep it on file because one never knows when or why it will be needed in the future. if it is public record there is nothing sneaky about it. [/quote]

She's probably not going to be able TO do anything about it until it was "too late" so what's the point now?

If it's public record NOW, it'll be public record THEN.


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cincsu
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Re: What would you do? [Re: preemiemom]
      #418059 - 06/23/08 07:53 PM

just always read when going to court it's better to have too much documentation than not enough. just get it and file it away.

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wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453


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preemiemom
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Re: What would you do? [Re: cincsu]
      #418072 - 06/23/08 08:13 PM

Hm... as she said, they don't have any court action currently, nor any coming up at the moment.

Sooo, she's supposed to go get something that's public record and will be public record. So she can keep it in a file in her house in case she MIGHT use it a year, two years, five years, 10 years down the road?

Seems silly to me to waste space keeping duplicate information that I can get readily from a public source.. when or if I need it.


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PrincessJ
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Re: What would you do? [Re: preemiemom]
      #418074 - 06/23/08 08:18 PM

"Public record" here is only available for 7 years, from my understanding. So, after 7 years, its all gone, byebye. I'd get it now, just in case.

--------------------
I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey


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preemiemom
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Re: What would you do? [Re: PrincessJ]
      #418076 - 06/23/08 08:24 PM

Ok.. granted. But, these are events that didn't involve the child, so how relevant are they to begin with, if they're not relevant today, how much more relevant are they not going to be in 5 or 6 or 7 years?

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cincsu
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Re: What would you do? [Re: preemiemom]
      #418078 - 06/23/08 08:43 PM

Well if things continue and escalate and involve other children why not have it. What's the harm in being overprepared. Just yesterday was reading an article where a divorce atty suggested to even get copies of warranties on your appliances....everything bc you never kow when or why something you hadn't thought of may become necessary. One never knows and better to spend 30 mins to get it rather than wish you had later

--------------------
wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453


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PrincessJ
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Re: What would you do? [Re: cincsu]
      #418079 - 06/23/08 08:45 PM

One never knows and better to spend 30 mins to get it rather than wish you had later .

---->So true...



Do you have copies of warranties?

--------------------
I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey


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preemiemom
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Re: What would you do? [Re: PrincessJ]
      #418082 - 06/23/08 08:52 PM

I can spend the same 30 minutes when I actually NEED to, rather than creating work for myself now, when I do not.

I'm all about un-complicating life. If it were my ex, and it weren't with my daughter around, then it's not my problem, it's not my business and to have it, essentially, constitutes an invasion of privacy. While it may be public record, the only reason I would know about it b/c we *have* to have a relationship for a child. Otherwise, I wouldn't know. And I wouldn't care.

MTMom doesn't specify HOW she knows about these incidents, but if I recall correctly, she's in a smaller town, and her family is prominent? And they probably know b/c of those circles/connections?

If she didn't have children with him, would she care? Would she get a record of it? Probably not. And it doesn't sound like she's overly concerned with it now?

As for the warranty question PJ just posed. The former owners of my house I own had EVERYTHING. I swear they gave us papers back to 1975 when they bought the house. Everything in neat little folders with labels. Very organized. He's also a JUDGE. Ironic I would buy a house from a judge and get divorced 2 years later. Although it IS a very handy connection to have ;)

I keep stuff. Not nearly that organized, but I do keep it.

But I invariably forget what the hell it is and during clean-up sprees, I throw them out.. only to have it happen that a month or two later I need whatever the hell it was I threw out. It's a terribly vicious cycle, lol but otherwise? I'm a pack rat by nature and if I didn't purge periodically I'd be overrun with crap.


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asurvivor
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Re: What would you do? [Re: MTmom]
      #418097 - 06/23/08 09:50 PM


Get the report!!!


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greeneyes
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Re: What would you do? [Re: MTmom]
      #418102 - 06/23/08 09:56 PM

I would get copies. If it is public information, there is nothing sneaky or underhanded about getting and having the info.

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RedskinFan
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Re: What would you do? [Re: greeneyes]
      #418104 - 06/23/08 10:08 PM

I would go ahead and get the reports. If you don't, you will always wonder. Just get them, and get it out of the way. Plus, this lady is crazy, you might need them sooner rather than later.

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Debi
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Re: What would you do? [Re: MTmom]
      #418105 - 06/23/08 10:21 PM

I personally doubt I would get them but that's not to say you shouldn't. I just know in my state they wouldn't even be allowed to be brought up. Here unless you kill someone and it pretty much has to be your own kids, all of the documentation in the world means nothing.

Even a conviction for a sexual offense involving a minor is not reason to change custody here so unless someone actually beat your kids no one would listen. Things might be different in Montana though.

--------------------
When we were together, you said you'd die for me. Now, I think it's time you kept your promise.


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javajunkiee
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Re: What would you do? [Re: Debi]
      #418107 - 06/23/08 10:28 PM

You can get them now and save yourself the hassle of trying to get them later, or you can save yourself the hassle now and get em later.

In any case, I don't know how helpful they will be unless you expect they will establish a pattern of behavior. If you get to the point of going to court though, you'll need something more specific and direct to effect a change.

Plus, consider that the defense response will be that if you knew of such problems way back when, why didn't you raise concerns at that time?

I personally would get the reports and file em, but just be aware their usefulness may be nil.

--------------------
Marriage doesn't come with a money-back guarantee.


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jil_stevens
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Re: What would you do? [Re: javajunkiee]
      #418109 - 06/23/08 10:33 PM

Well, the response to the defense would be easy...at the time it didn't seem to be affecting the children in any way, and such you didn't want to do anything at that time to interfere with their relationship. And then explain how now the situation is different and does affect the children.

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BB1
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Re: What would you do? [Re: MTmom]
      #418175 - 06/24/08 05:37 AM

If you get along well with your ex, ask him about them, but let him know it's out of concern for your child. No child should have to be witness to any acts of domestic violence.

Yes, I would order them. The DV between them is not your business but if your son is being subjected to it, then it is. My ex's last wife was very violent. It was court ordered for her not to be around my daughter.

--------------------
It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear.


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JennyLynn
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Re: What would you do? [Re: BB1]
      #418191 - 06/24/08 07:20 AM

I would order them in a heartbeat if I suspected something going on in a household where my child lived part of the time.

Their marriage IS your business when it directly effects YOUR child. It's a matter of public record. I'd go for it.


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MaritimeGuy
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Re: What would you do? [Re: MTmom]
      #418194 - 06/24/08 07:36 AM

If it didn't involve your child I don't know how you would be able to use it in any court matter involving your child. While it may satisfy your personal curiousity I don't think it will have any bearing on a custody or child support matter. I'm no lawyer though, maybe your family court lawyer would advise you differently.

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preemiemom
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Re: What would you do? [Re: JennyLynn]
      #418195 - 06/24/08 07:36 AM

That's the point. It is NOT directly affecting THEIR child. When or IF it ever does, the records are public record.. but as someone else mentioned they're probably completely irrelevant to anything regarding the child since, as noted, the incidents in question don't involve the child.

You ran a risk, when one does this sort of thing, of coming across looking like a control freak/whack job solely looking to punish one's ex.

It's public record, MTMom is very well connected in the town. I'm sure she'd have them in 5 minutes IF IF IF she ever needed them.

To get them now is totally overkill, intrusive on her ex's marriage, and just not necessary.


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JennyLynn
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Re: What would you do? [Re: preemiemom]
      #418196 - 06/24/08 07:39 AM

How is it intrusive? It's public record. If she wants to look at them for her own reasons, so be it.

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preemiemom
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Re: What would you do? [Re: JennyLynn]
      #418202 - 06/24/08 07:52 AM

b/c if it weren't for the fact that they have a chlid who happens to be there when NOTHING is happening, she wouldn't even know.. and certainly wouldn't care. To get the records SOLELY for the purpose of curiosity/potential future use against the ex, would seem to be intrusive.. not necessarily legally, but certainly morally. Why not just park a car outside his house and wait and watch?

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BB1
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Re: What would you do? [Re: MaritimeGuy]
      #418203 - 06/24/08 07:55 AM

Replying in general:

My ex had an incident with his last wife that occurred when my child was not there. Family Services felt there was a risk based on patterns of abuse proven by police records.

I wonder if the original poster knows the dates of the dv. Maybe the child was there? The police records will confirm that.

My thought process is kinda like, well, a child sex offender may not offend while a certain child is there, does that mean the child should be around that person just because he/she wasn't there at the time? Or a drug dealer deals drugs while the child isn't there, should child be able to go back in hopes the person won't deal in the kid's presence? To me, DV involving the police is criminal activity and children should not be subjected to DV or *any* criminal activity or people who commit such acts. However, I think the poster, since on good terms with her ex, needs to talk to the dad about it because police records don't tell the whole story.

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ssmom79
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Re: What would you do? [Re: MTmom]
      #418218 - 06/24/08 08:57 AM

Based solely on your situation, I would say no, you do not NEED the copies. You can get them later if you need them. Public record today is public record tomorrow.

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MTmom
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The rest of the story: [Re: ssmom79]
      #418265 - 06/24/08 10:24 AM

SM and X had a huge fight just over 2 weeks ago and she took off indefinately w/ their child. She has since returned. I discovered yesterday, that the day she left they had a huge fight in the middle of their town that several witnesses called into the sheriff because their child was present and she left driving erratically. I knew about the fight before, but I didn't know it was documented in an incident report. My ds went there that afternoon. I do not know what time the fight was, so I do not know if he was present or not. He didn't mention it.. and I am not comfortable quizzing him if he wasn't there.

When I discovered this incident report exists, I called the sheriff. Preemiemom is right, I've lived here my whole life and the Sheriff is a friend of mine. He told me I could request the incident report for that incident and "the others" in writing or by stopping into the department. I didn't know there were others, and I don't know whether or not my ds was there. All I do know is that he hasn't told me about anything other than run of the mill arguments between sm and dad, where dad usually ends them by calling sm selfish and lazy, and then he and ds go fishing.

I'm completely speculating here - but ds "may" have been present at some of these incidents, but I do not know.

I've decided what I am going to do. 1st- I'm going to talk to my x when we exchange ds on Saturday. Ds has said some things about sm lately that dad needs to be aware of. Ds has also told his friends that dad is getting divorced and is taking child #2 away from sm... no idea where it came from, but dad and sm need to address it w/ him. I plan to also address these incidents.

My concern is 2 fold. I don't want ds witnessing any more of these incidents. X I am certain will agree. Now that we get along better, I'm sure this can be resolved easy enough. I think I'll ask that if there is a fight etc, that he call me, and I will immediately drive to his town and pick up ds.. and will wourk out make up time for ds to see him when tensions have cooled.

2nd - I'm going to ask ex to sign either a parenting plan modification or a protective order preventing sm from taking ds out of our county without written authorization from he or I. The sheriff suggested this to me during our conversation. Based on the fact that she already left the state with their child during her last tantrum, he suggested I have protections in place that allows other law enforcement agencies to stop her if she does the same w/ my ds in her car. If we don't have anything in place, it will be next to impossible to have her stopped in that situation.

I "think" my x will be agreeable.. because he will still be able to authorize her to travel out of county.. but we will have another layer of protection if she snaps again.

Any thoughts? I don't know that this is "right" and I'm still working it out in my head.. so I appreciate any feedback.


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MaritimeGuy
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Re: The rest of the story: [Re: MTmom]
      #418291 - 06/24/08 10:47 AM

Well if you're unsure of whether or not your son was present during these disputes then the incident report may help you to determine if he was.

As for your ex agreeing to call you in the middle of a fight it sounds good in theory but I don't know how it would work in practice. Are they capable of calling a "time out" long enough for you to drive out there and pick up your son?

I can see her taking off with her own child but not a step child. If by some chance she's lost it so badly she does the piece of paper is not going to stop her. I don't know the law but I would hope even if you didn't have one and she ran off with your son a simple call to the authorities to explain the circumstances and that she has taken your son without permission should be enough for them to detain her.


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