M5M5
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Ok, what do you say to your 17 yr old daughter when she is asking questions about memories she has that are warped? SD is at a Christian youth camp and she sent DH a letter wanting to know about some things in her past. She wants to know why she isn't his priority, why she was called selfish for so long and that she still remembers the bruises left on her from the belt and the cut on her head from a spatula. I guess she doesn't remember the details...but the way she phrased all this, makes DH sound like he abused her. Um, she was the favored daughter and hardly ever got spanked...NONE of them got spanked often or even disciplined at all (which caused alot of our earlier fights).
Take the spatula incident...she was about 6...DH hit a cabinet door with it (out of frustration) and it flew out of his hand, backwards and hit her in the head. Left a scratch because it broke when he hit it. He didn't throw it at her. But, I remember her going to her moms and telling her about it and all of a sudden, it was intentional (bc he was accused of it in a court pleading). The bruises from a belt? Never happened. She got spanked with the belt, she moved and it hit her legs instead of the belt and it left a red mark, but not a bruise (and the mark disappeared that same day...btw, that was only the second time she had been spanked with the belt by her dad and it was also the last because he was upset that he got her legs instead of her rear end). She WAS called selfish...by me back when she was refusing to come over or have anything to do with this side of her family. And she was and IS selfish. All kids are.
Anyway. DH doesn't know about the letter yet...because he's not home from work yet. He is going to be upset though...heart broken really. Because...is that really how she remembers things? I know her mom's had 7 years (actually longer if you include the weekend visits) to put that crap into her head. Not sure why she doesn't think she is a priority with him...all his kids are his priority. And then she was all like "I forgive you for everything you've ever done and I love you".
Wonder if she sent her mom a letter with all the bad things that she did to her? She was spanked with the belt by her mom and SF, she was told not to speak to us or she would be spanked, she was withheld from DH for almost 2 years, was told to not even look at him at games or she would get it, etc.
I was really ticked off when I first read the letter. But now that I've had a couple hours to think about it...if that's what she really remembers....then I'm just sad, because things did not happen like she is saying or insinuating they did.
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Sampoe
enthusiast
Reged: 01/27/11
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You lost me at the spatula incident. So your husband hit a door with a spatula, in a rage and it resulted in an injury to your step daughter and you have to ask WTH?
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NikkiL
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What do you say? I think I would start with "Im sorry, very very sorry."
Your post sounds like all the things she said happened, DID happen. You dont like the way it sounds when its repeated back to you from her point of view. But her point of view is completely understandable given the stories you tell. DH having tantrums that resulted in her injury? You dont think that deserves an apology? She was obviously stuck in the middle of her feuding parents, in one breath you say her mother filled her head with "crap" and was spanked with belts by her BM and SF if she talked to you, then when she didnt talk to you, she was called selfish. OKKK Yeah sounds like ALL OF THE ADULTS in the situation owe this girl some apologies..and you should mean them because what you all did to her, sounds like abuse to me. Physical and mental abuse. WTH, you ask? No kidding. WTH.
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Maury
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I can tell you this - around here - using a belt that results in a red mark is a fast road to child Protective Services involvement.
I am sorry you are having these issues. Hopefully, it will work out. I wonder what prompted the inquiry all of the sudden
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M5M5
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No, but good job reading more into it and twisting my words.
We believe in spanking with belts. Her mom and step-father do too. The last time DH spanked her with a belt, she moved and it left a red mark on her, which disappeared within a few hours. She is claiming it left a bruise (it didn't). She was probably about 8. The spatula...he hit a cabinet to close it (in frustration, yes, but not at me or the kids), it broke and flew backwards and hit her in the forehead. He apologized at the time, and yes, he will again since she needs to hear it again.
Her mom threatened to spank her and her brothers if they so much as looked at us a football practices and games. This was during the custody battle. This was separate from the spanking and spatula incident. She was called selfish by me when she refused to come around because our home was not up to her standards after her mom got a couple million and bought a beautiful, expensive home. In fact, her mom was rewarding her with gifts and parties when she chose to stay with her rather than come to us. So, yes...I called her selfish then. And she was and is. All kids are selfish, especially teenagers.
Wanna go there? Her mom was found to be guilty of psychological abuse to her and her brothers by a psychiatrist and the courts. You don't think DH and I was under the same scrutiny as her mom and SF? You would be wrong.
In the south...in east TN, spanking with belts is not considered abuse. Not at this time, anyway.
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toomom
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your husband physically abused his daughter in the past. She is asking for her father to admitt to the physical abuse which he did to her and the emotional abuse you inflicted on her. To deny it will only make the abuse that much worse in her brain FOREVER. If at 11 years latter she is still hurt by the spatula incident I dare say, it must have been really bad. I don't think parents just abuse one child. I bet the others were abused too.
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gr8Dad
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It sounds like she is being coached to remember bad things. My advice? Apologize. Tell her, "During the custody battle, we were ALL under a lot of stress. As adults, we can get frustrated just like kids. The spatula incident is one in which we regret that it happened, but it did, and we are sorry. The belt incident is simply false, there was no bruise. There was a red mark, but even a 'time out' chair will leave a red mark if you sit on it long enough. We are not perfect, we made and will continue to make mistakes. I am sorry for any of the mistakes that hurt you, emotionally or physically. Asd for calling you selfish, you, at the time, were acting selfish, and as your parents, it is our job to point that kind of behavior out so you can modify it as you become an adult. If there was a better way of doing that, you can try that with your own children, we did the best we could at the time. Is there anything we can do to rectify the situation, or did you just need to get that off your chest?"
And leave it at that. One of the things a lot of these Christian places do is teach people to look at their past and see where they have wronged people, and make ammends, either to the person directly, or to someone else by helping them.
Unfortunately, while it is with the GREATEST intention, many church folks (counselors and such) do not have the training to dredge up such memories and deal with the backlash that can occur. Perhaps she confronted her Mom, and the response was, "Well, you DAD did this and this and that..." And her anger turned towards Dad. If Dad DEFENDS himself, in her eyes, he will be NO better than MOM, in refusing to take responsibility for his actions. If he APOLOGIZES (remember, "I'm sorry" is FREE) all of a sudden he is acting like the adult I THINK he wants her to become, one that takes responsibility for his choices, and stands by them, even when they are not popular. All of a sudden MOM Is the irresponsible one who only wants to BLAME.
Just my 2 cents, I could be wrong, but you should have your husband read this post.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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M5M5
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And you see, that is why DH never spanked her again...because he felt horrible for leaving a mark on her (even though it went away that same day)...he never spanked any of them again since that day. He apologized to her for that then, after it happened. He never meant for it to touch her legs.
Oh, and trust me, the BM tried to use that against us, but it's not illegal here and was not considered abuse...it didn't leave a bruise or cut the skin.
I think she views the incidents as alot worse than what they were because of how young she was and I know her mom was telling her it was abuse, that DH was abusive (heck, it was all in the court records, her accusing him of abuse towards the kids AND her). At the same time, her mom was doing much worse (which came to light during the battle too...causing her to lose custody...the same battle where she wound up in jail).
I think while she has questions...she also wanted him to know that she forgives him for every wrong thing he did, and all the mistakes he has made in parenting (and there are plenty...we all make mistakes as parents). I really wonder if she sent her mom a similar letter. Her mom has done some pretty horrible things to her and the boys over the years. More psychological in recent years than anything.
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gr8Dad
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There was NO abuse, stop your crap. The spatula incident was an ACCIDENT, and the belt left no bruise (spanking with a belt is NOT< per the LAW, abuse, unless it leaves LASTING mark, and a red mark does not count), thus there was NO abuse.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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gr8Dad
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And doing ANYTHING other than saying you are sorry and you did the best you could will keep it going. Denying or blaming will cause her to RE-examine it, and it will only get worse and she goes over it again and again.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Maury
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(spanking with a belt is NOT< per the LAW, abuse, unless it leaves LASTING mark, and a red mark does not count)
That is not accurate around here. A spanking with anything other than a hand or that leaves a red mark is considered abusive and, if reported, usually results in CPS involvement.
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M5M5
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Thanks, gr8dad. I think that is great advice, and I will have him read this. She is at the camp for 2 more weeks. I think he should write her a letter before she leaves there, basically stating what you just said, and then say that if she needs to talk more about it, then he will make it a priority to have some alone time with her so she can get anything else she needs off her chest.
I do know that her mom pounded into her head for years...especially since they got all that money and the kids started living with them again, that their dad is a POC and was abusive, etc etc etc. Of course, we made mistakes over the years in how we handled some things...we are only human after all. My husband is the very opposite of abusive though. My SD knows this, deep down. Heck, she always has her dad wrapped around her little finger. She gets whatever she wants from him, even when he knows he shouldn't give in. I think kids/people who are really truly abused would be appalled at what some consider abuse here. 2 incidents that were accidental, and all of a sudden he is an abusive monster. BAER. This is the guy that sat on our back deck and bawled like a baby when his ex didn't show up with his kids on Christmas day...because it was the first (and only) Christmas he had missed with them since they were born. Many times he sat on that deck and just cried because of how his kids were being treated over there...during the custody battle. OMG...I had never seen a grown man cry like that before and I hope to never see it again. The only way you can hurt him...is thru his kids.
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M5M5
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He doesn't intend to lay blame anywhere else or denying that the incidents happened (even if they are a little skewed in her brain). She is questioning them, so I think he should give her an honest answer WITHOUT mentioning her mom and anyone else. Should he mention how young she was and that it's not surprising that she's not remembering it accurately?
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Cassie23
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I remember getting spanked (very seldom) with a belt as a young child. I remember the slaps across of my face provided by my mother much more.
I feel ya. SD mentioned that we have a "past" the other day when we had some recent difficulties (long story). Her past involves what her mother told her ABOUT me.
So I will tell you what I told HER... I told her that no matter what she does to me- calls me names, steals or hurts me I will still love her. I will always love her. I have been with her for 19 years and I will not leave her. I will not do as her mother has done. I will not, however, take the disrespect she shows me when I don't give in to her ways.
We all have some work to do, some changing and some growing...no one if perfect. If she remembers these instances differently then all you can do is correct them and apologize if she ever felt hurt in your presence.
My kids just came back from a Mission Trip overseas and they also went through some of the same feelings your SD is going through in regards to relationships with friends. They had a "confession" moment and many of their friends had confessions that could make a person's stomach turn. I do think trips and camps such as these often bring out lots of emotions and maybe feelings of uneasiness that have never been righted. So right the wrongs and listen. LISTEN. I think sometimes as parents we forget to listen to our children. Really listen. I told SD when she said she was "pissed" at me- why didn't you tell me? What did I do? There wasn't really an answer because I think that week me breathing was enough to piss her off :)
One thing I noticed about my DD (according to her recollection of the events) is when she finished the confession, she had an alone moment with God and in her words, she gave up to him what she has been holding back these past several months. She came home feeling peace because she experienced the true connection- she experienced a relationship with her Savior.
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gr8Dad
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"Should he mention how young she was and that it's not surprising that she's not remembering it accurately?"
Remembe the GOAL here is to have her take the "issue", place a CHECK MARK next to it mentally and file it away forever. Telling her was YOUNG and remembers wrong will only make her keep thinking about it.
For example, RIGHT NOW, do NOT think of an ELEPHANT. You are thinking of an elephant, aren't you? Its human psychology.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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M5M5
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Makes sense! Thank you....I guess we just feel sad (DH read the letter and he said he feels the same way I do...just heart broken that she feels or remembers it that way). She's probably sent her mom a letter too, if that's what this is. I hope she will receive it well. I know sometimes they are afraid to say things to her, even if it's truth, because they are afraid of how she will react. DH is much more easy going...and he's a softie...very easily hurt when it concerns his kids.
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M5M5
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Point taken...thank you =)
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ivehadit
journeyman
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Ignore the trolls. I see they are at it again. You and your Dh are wonderful parents and your kids know that. Your Bm (in this case) has really done a number on them.
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english7
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M5, I'm sorry you have to go through this. When I was a kid, my dad would hit us with his belt. My brothers got it more often. I only was hit once by him and once my mother slapped my face when I was 17 for saying "no" to her.
We never once questioned their right to do it, as we always knew we had misbehaved to the point that we had it coming. The rules were clear. I can't remember any bruising afterward, but the sharp sting of the belt was enough to jolt our little brains into good behavior.
Of course there is a danger that some parents will let their anger reach a point of abuse, but it doesn't sound like that is the case with you or your DH.
If a child is behaving in a selfish manner, it is your responsibility to let her know. I regret the soft style of parenting that forbids such discipline. It's resulting in uncontrollable youngsters and rude, cocky teens who carry their self-centered, righteous, disrespectful personalities into adulthood.
That said, I shudder to read about a child who is abused, emotionally or physically. Some parents can't figure out where to draw the line.
I think Gr8's advice is good advice. (And I can't quite believe I said that.) I hope this whole situation has a positive outcome for all.
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toomom
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Spanking a child with a belt like an animal that leaves a mark or something is WRONG. I'm sorry but how could you say that it is ok is beyond me. Would you or M5M5's husband hit the family dog with a belt because it stepped out of line?
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ivehadit
journeyman
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So, are you saying you beat your animals with a belt? You are a sick troll that needs to leave. You bring nothing positive to this board. Now bugger off!
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M5M5
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Thanks, English...I agree with everything you posted. I, too, was spanked with a belt when I was a kid. My older brothers got it more than me, and I should have got it more than I did! lol We didn't get spanked alot...because after a few times...receiving the "look" was enough to make us behave. I look back and am grateful for the discipline I got as a child. At 17, my SD isn't there yet...but I'm sure one day she will be...probably shortly after she has kids of her own.
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toomom
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You spank with a parent's hand on the bottom (still not OK) and when a parent picks up an object to "spank" you with, it is hitting or beating you. Why would any parent take an object to hit their child? The only reason is...they want to HURT them physically. Do you hurt your pets?
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Maury
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When we were kids, corporal punishment was allowed, even in vogue. We had an occasional soft belt swat as well as a swat with a yard stick or a wood spoon. I don't remember it as abusive. In fact, the most effective discipline or traumatic thing I remember is when we made mom cry.
Times have changed. It is not longer viewed as ordinary discipline. Do I agree? I think there are better methods. Do I think it abuse? There are degrees of everything. It can be. It depends on how it is administered.
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ssmom79
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It sounds like she is being coached to remember bad things. My advice? Apologize. Tell her, "During the custody battle, we were ALL under a lot of stress. As adults, we can get frustrated just like kids. The spatula incident is one in which we regret that it happened, but it did, and we are sorry. The belt incident is simply false, there was no bruise. There was a red mark, but even a 'time out' chair will leave a red mark if you sit on it long enough. We are not perfect, we made and will continue to make mistakes. I am sorry for any of the mistakes that hurt you, emotionally or physically. Asd for calling you selfish, you, at the time, were acting selfish, and as your parents, it is our job to point that kind of behavior out so you can modify it as you become an adult. If there was a better way of doing that, you can try that with your own children, we did the best we could at the time. Is there anything we can do to rectify the situation, or did you just need to get that off your chest?"
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Like.
At camp, you do find kids opening up about their lives and sometimes it triggers a memory or a feeling. Maybe these aren't how they happened or maybe these aren't how they happened in your mind. Either way I think the best thing to do is acknowledge the feelings and see what it takes to help her sort the feelings out. It may hurt, but parenting does hurt sometimes.
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ssmom79
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I was spanked with the belt. The one that hung on the wall so you could remember it just in case. Belts these days are taboo. Heck spanking is taboo. Sometimes a quick pop on the butt is all you need to set them straight. When you use it as discipline and not out of anger.
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Gecko
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WTH! Ok, what do you say to your 17 yr old daughter when she is asking questions about memories she has that are warped?
---> You start out by 1) NOT getting angry, 2) NOT calling them 'warped' and 3) NOT making assumptions about the one of her letter.
---> While Gr8Dad's advice is pretty good, I don't agree with everything. First of all, I would leave out all the 'custody battle' stuff and who gets 'frustrated' and 'regret' and so on and so forth and just stick to the four issues that she is asking about in a simple an clear manner:
1. why she isn't his priority
---> "You, as with your brothers and sisters have ALWAYS been a priority in my life. It's why I work to provide you with the things that you need, it's why I make time to be with each one of you."
2. why she was called selfish for so long
---> "Because you were selfish for so long."
3. bruises left on her from the belt
---> "No bruises were EVER left of you when you were disciplined! The second time I ever spanked you, you moved and your leg was hit instead of your butt. Because of that, I never spanked you again."
4. the cut on her head from a spatula
---> "That was a freak accident. I hit the cabinet with the spatula and it broke and it went flying and hit you in the head."
---> You also want to praise her for coming to you with these questions and let her know that she can always do so in the future.
---> My oldest daughter was 18 when she said that she wanted to talk to me because she had some questions. She was having a lot of problems with her father at the time and was staying with some friends while she finished her Senior year. I told her that I would do my best to answer them in an open and honest manner, but depending on what she asked, I might tell her that it was none of her business. Specifically, questions dealing with her father's and my marriage were none of her business because they had nothing to do with the parent-child relationship. I made sure she understood that her father was NOT a bad man, but sometimes we make bad choices for good reasons, or reasons that seems good at the time. Her father was who he was and she could either accept him as that or not...it was her choice. She ended moving back home a week later and her relationship with her father improved after that. Several years later she thanked me, said our conversation allowed her to stand up to her father because I never once trashed him.
---> Again...keep the answers simple and to the point. If she wants to know more, she will ask. Be honest, but don't hesitate to tell her that there are things that are none of her business. There may also be things that she is yet too young to understand, but don't be condescending when you say it. You might want to point out that at one time she though boys had cooties or that something was 'gross' until she got older. That's the way life works...no matter what your age, there is always still something to learn.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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M5M5
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Thanks, Gecko...I'll have my DH read this...I think he may go for what you said more than anything.
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finz
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[quote]It sounds like she is being coached to remember bad things. My advice? Apologize. Tell her, "During the custody battle, we were ALL under a lot of stress. As adults, we can get frustrated just like kids. The spatula incident is one in which we regret that it happened, but it did, and we are sorry. The belt incident is simply false, there was no bruise. There was a red mark, but even a 'time out' chair will leave a red mark if you sit on it long enough. We are not perfect, we made and will continue to make mistakes. I am sorry for any of the mistakes that hurt you, emotionally or physically. Asd for calling you selfish, you, at the time, were acting selfish, and as your parents, it is our job to point that kind of behavior out so you can modify it as you become an adult. If there was a better way of doing that, you can try that with your own children, we did the best we could at the time. Is there anything we can do to rectify the situation, or did you just need to get that off your chest?"
And leave it at that. One of the things a lot of these Christian places do is teach people to look at their past and see where they have wronged people, and make ammends, either to the person directly, or to someone else by helping them.
Unfortunately, while it is with the GREATEST intention, many church folks (counselors and such) do not have the training to dredge up such memories and deal with the backlash that can occur. Perhaps she confronted her Mom, and the response was, "Well, you DAD did this and this and that..." And her anger turned towards Dad. If Dad DEFENDS himself, in her eyes, he will be NO better than MOM, in refusing to take responsibility for his actions. If he APOLOGIZES (remember, "I'm sorry" is FREE) all of a sudden he is acting like the adult I THINK he wants her to become, one that takes responsibility for his choices, and stands by them, even when they are not popular. All of a sudden MOM Is the irresponsible one who only wants to BLAME.
Just my 2 cents, I could be wrong, but you should have your husband read this post. [/quote]
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I haven't made it through the whole thread yet, but have to say.....this sounds like EXCELLENT advice on how to phrase things.
Maybe these reflections are because of a specific 'assignment' at the camp. Maybe she has been ruminating on these issues for awhile because there are some feelings there she hasn't adequately dealt with.
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finz
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[quote]He doesn't intend to lay blame anywhere else or denying that the incidents happened (even if they are a little skewed in her brain). She is questioning them, so I think he should give her an honest answer WITHOUT mentioning her mom and anyone else. Should he mention how young she was and that it's not surprising that she's not remembering it accurately? [/quote]
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I would NOT say that she isn't remembering this accurately. I would say that I remember it differently.
I would somehow try to get in the conversation that parenting styles and what is considered 'acceptable' punishment for children HAS changed over the years. Heck, I don't think CPS would be too happy with how often my mom did the ol' washing our mouths out with soap for cursing/wise answers, but I don't consider that abusive. I would NOT say that what dh did was NOT abusive (in his conversation with her, I'm not 'judging' the incidents). I would say that he did not think that he was doing anything abusive, he thought he was doing 'basic parenting 101' What he should focus on his her feelings about it. Did she think he didn't love her ? Did she think he was too strict ? If she insists on an 'abuse label', I think he should state his perspective, but NOT argue the point. Focus it on her feelings.
Sounds like this is an opportunity to repair and strengthen......or damage and divide. Moving into the sexually active years WITHOUT unresolved 'daddy issues' sounds like a good plan.
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finz
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[quote]Spanking a child with a belt like an animal that leaves a mark or something is WRONG. I'm sorry but how could you say that it is ok is beyond me. Would you or M5M5's husband hit the family dog with a belt because it stepped out of line? [/quote]
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Troll comment/question, so here's my troll answer.....
I've never felt the need to slap my dog with a belt. A quick tug on her choke collar and she steps back in line quick enough.
Unfortunately, I can't find one big enoughto fit over my dang teenagers' heads.
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finz
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[quote]Thanks, English...I agree with everything you posted. I, too, was spanked with a belt when I was a kid. My older brothers got it more than me, and I should have got it more than I did! lol We didn't get spanked alot...because after a few times...receiving the "look" was enough to make us behave. I look back and am grateful for the discipline I got as a child. At 17, my SD isn't there yet...but I'm sure one day she will be...probably shortly after she has kids of her own. [/quote]
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I love the Mark Twain quote......and it certainly applies to my attitude when I was a teen.....
"When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."
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Gecko
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what is considered 'acceptable' punishment for children HAS changed over the years
---> Yeah...and society as a whole is so much worse for it! You have kids of all ages bringing guns and knives to school and killing other kids..and teachers. You have little kids that are so totally out of control, that the police are called in and handcuffs are being used. You have 12-year old girls sexting and sending nude photos of themselves. You higher instances of bullying and suicide.
---> MY GOD...the USSC recently ruled that children who are tried as adults cannot be given life sentences with parole (or whatever). That they even had to RULE on something like that is telling in itself!
---> I wasn't 'abused' as a child, I was punished. I got my mouth washed out with soap for saying a 'bad' word...didn't hurt me and I didn't swear after that (at least not in front of my parents). I got sent to bed without supper twice...the first time for not coming to the supper table on time, the second time for bad table manners...never did either again. Got my butt beat the second time I didn't put Dad's tools away...also got extra chores because I ruined his Phillips screwdriver in the process. And we were expected to do chores WITHOUT getting paid for it.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19801
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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or that leaves a red mark
---> An example of the law being taken to extremes.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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finz
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/17/08
Posts: 6453
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[quote]
---> I wasn't 'abused' as a child, I was punished.
I got my mouth washed out with soap for saying a 'bad' word
I got sent to bed without supper twice
Got my butt beat the second time
I didn't put Dad's tools away...also got extra chores because I ruined his Phillips screwdriver in the process.
And we were expected to do chores WITHOUT getting paid for it. [/quote]
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Sounds similar to my upbringing......and "I wasn't 'abused' as a child, I was punished." was phrased PERFECTLY !
You were allowed to TOUCH your dad's tools ? I think we may have lost our hand if we tried to tough those......so we DID NOT touch them.
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SockPuppet1
journeyman
Reged: 12/30/11
Posts: 83
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Those are her memories. Were you there when her Dad Beat her or couldn't control his temper? Maybe this stuff happened the way she said? It is abusive to hit anyone with a belt by the way. If not. does your husband beat you when you disobey him? Abuse is abuse. Even worse when done to a child.
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SockPuppet1
journeyman
Reged: 12/30/11
Posts: 83
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A grown man being unablle to control his temper was scary to a kid. I can only imagine how scared she felt if she remembers it years later. Your husband sounds like an ass and so do you if you can't see that. WTH? WTH indeed.
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Avaya
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 9815
Loc: Arkansas
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Okay, you read his mail?
That aside, if I was him, I wouldn't respond in writing; I'd do it face to face. And no matter how much she loves YOU, I think he should do it alone so that she gets the story from him (even if he doesn't do it 'right', I think a MAN needs to step up and do it HIS way) and so she has a better chance of feeling like the matter is settled.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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Avaya
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 9815
Loc: Arkansas
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[quote]You spank with a parent's hand on the bottom [/quote]
A parent's hands are for LOVING the child; a child IMO should be spanked with a belt or a similar item so that they never equate a parents hands with hurting.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19801
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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Okay, you read his mail?
---> Why not? I always read my husband's mail and he read mine...we had no secrets from another.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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Avaya
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 9815
Loc: Arkansas
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[quote]Okay, you read his mail?
---> Why not? I always read my husband's mail and he read mine...we had no secrets from another. [/quote]
It's not about secrets it's about exercising some discretion. Unless it's a bill or obvious junk mail, I NEVER open his mail. Not because I think he's keeping secrets but because I think that mail addressed only to him deserves his eyes first.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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SockPuppet1
journeyman
Reged: 12/30/11
Posts: 83
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Michael and Debbie Pearl advocate. WTH. Spanking with plumbing line? They say you need to beat babies to teach them.
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elliesmom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 8834
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I am glad that you backed off the tone of your original post - because my thought was WTH are you thinking.
I like what gr8/Gecko have said. Your husband did something in anger that hurt his kid accidently - he can't apologize enough for that. If I got pissed at something I was assembling and threw a wrench and it hit something that shattered and hurt my kid - I would feel bad about it forever. He clearly felt the belt incident crossed a line - unless she was a perfect child afterwards and THAT is why he never whipped her again. What BM does has NO BEARING on whether your husband has some regrettable actions that maybe he should apologize for in the hopes that she can move on.
I might elaborate a little bit as to why I was calling her selfish. Nothing in depth, but simply "I called you selfish because I think that __________ IS selfish." followed by the whole that's your job as parents and she can do better with her kids.
You make a lot of assumptions about BM torturing SD with belt whippings when you don't have even CLOSE to a credible source. MAYBE that's why she didn't come. But maybe not. I would let her bounce that back and not accuse her mother of anything - even if its something she has said her mother did. She also said your husband broke a wooden spoon over her head, KWIM?
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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M5M5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/29/05
Posts: 11722
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Yes, and he reads mine. Problem? I didn't write the letter for him, and I have no intention on going with him if they want some alone time. He does thinks with his kids all the time without me. I don't need to hold his hand.
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M5M5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/29/05
Posts: 11722
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That's exactly how we feel, Gecko...DH and I had that discussion shortly after we married. We have nothing to hide from each other and it's just one way we hold each other accountable. If that makes sense?
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M5M5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/29/05
Posts: 11722
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As I said...at first, I was kind of angry because of how she makes the situation sound...as if DH was an abusive monster (which is not now and has never been the case). But, once I thought about it...I just started to feel more sad than angry.
We know for a fact, since they admitted to it in open court about the abusive stuff that went on in the BM's home (well...the SF admitted to it, BM didn't)...and the kids had to testify about it. That stuff didn't happen, as far as I know, during the year and half that she refused to come around. So...I do have a credible source...multiple sources.
She stopped coming around because our living situation was not up to her standards...and her mom was also rewarding her for it. That is when I called her selfish.
He didn't mention anything about her mother, and will not. DH did feel bad about those 2 incidents, but when he read that letter...he told me he hadn't thought about it in years because he had put it behind him...but he will apologize again because maybe she didn't remember the other apologies. What do you mean about the wooden spoon? I don't get it....
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19801
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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Not sure what being discreet has to do with you reading it first or second, but to each their own.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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SockPuppet1
journeyman
Reged: 12/30/11
Posts: 83
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You do not like lthis girl. Obvious. Sad.
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