finz
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Reged: 06/17/08
Posts: 6488
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Sure.....I can explain that.
I'm Catholic, my kids are Catholic.....I don't see any reason why a school sponsored concert should feature a song that includes the prayer:
"Now I lay me down to sleep,
Pray the Lord my soul to keep.
If I should die, before I wake,
Pray the Lord my soul to take"
It might be an appropriate tune to add to one of the childrens' maases at church.
No biggie if an individual child wants to say it for themselves or share it with a friend while they happen to be at school, but teachers shouldn't be instructing children to sing it in a performance. Any child should be able to opt out/not sing any tune they are not comfortable with, but a kid shouldn't have to opt out of something that shouldn't have been included to begin with ! The music teacher should have the sense to pick some appropriate tunes.
Greatdad didn't say his kids couldn't sing that song around his house if they wanted to.......just that NO kid should be instructed to sing it in a public school.
Can you UNDERSTAND that ?
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Redlegg
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Reged: 10/05/06
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"This is not minor. It's predatory to conduct this toward a young, captive audience who would be truant if they didn't attend public school,"
"None of the songs was taught, or used, as prayer. Thus, the case you cite dealing with school prayer is an inapposite...[the songs] were used appropriately to teach musical concepts,"
The two views, is one wrong, are they both wrong, or can they both be right. Not being used in a religious context, but containing the word's god, lord, whatever they may be. If the words are wrong to use, why just music, why not any book that has similar language and is required reading.
How about this: What’s he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark’d to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God’s will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
get rid of it, it has the word God,
"Then he started telling us how he was never ashamed, when he was in some kind of trouble or something, to get right down his knees and pray to God. He told us we should always pray to God – talk to Him and all – wherever we were. He told us we ought to think of Jesus as our buddy and all. He said he talked to Jesus all the time."
Gone, get rid of it.
What is the compromise? all or none, is it ok for literature, but not music, music but not literature, how about history, is it ok historically. Each person has their own opinion. Each parent has their own views. It is a public school, when you eliminate it totally you are infringing, when you allow it unchecked by parents, you are forcing views. To me, the reasonable solution is to allow parents to make the choice for their own children. The only way you are infringing is when you eliminate totally, or you do not give parents the choice.
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Redlegg
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Reged: 10/05/06
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Can you explain that?
He is conservative, he flip flopped :) :) :) J/K
I think, and this just my thought, that he does not believe, and he does not want his kids, to have to hear it in school. Again, only my opinion, but that is the single best reason I could imagine. I understand it, but it is not 8 or 800, there is a reasonable compromise for all. At least I think so.
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ssmom79
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Reged: 06/27/07
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So the simple solution, because we cannot TRUST some Christians to use reasonable judgement, is to ban the words altogether.
________________________________________
So the simple solution, because we cannot TRUST some GUN OWNERS to use reasonable judgement, is to ban the GUNS altogether?
I think that particular replacement of words is akin to what you offered me above. You can't just take out two words and replace with two different words to counter an argument reasonably....or can you? That's sort of what you're saying here, because we can't trust a few, we got to ban them all. How has that gotten us so far with drugs and gun control? God control, or non-God control, maybe it's counter-productive to the cause.
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gr8Dad
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Reged: 06/07/04
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The difference being that, unlike attending school, owning a gun is not mandatory.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Sherron
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Reged: 11/25/06
Posts: 20177
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"The difference being that, unlike attending school, owning a gun is not mandatory."
Attending public school isn't mandatory, a child can attend private school or be home schooled. I believe parents should be given the opportunity to have the student opt out, just saying there are legal alternatives to public school.
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gr8Dad
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"Attending public school isn't mandatory, a child can attend private school or be home schooled."
This is NOT an option for everyone. There is the COST of private school, and the time and ability of someone to homeschool.
"I believe parents should be given the opportunity to have the student opt out"
"opt out" of school, or opt out of PRAYER, which should be in the school to begin with? And why, if you WANT a standard prayer or song/prayer, does it ALWAYS seem to be CHRISTIAN?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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ssmom79
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The premise is the same, whether mandatory or by choice, you can't trust one, so you have to do away with it all is a poor way to solve a problem.
IMO the solution is choice. Don't like the songs, don't sing them, ask that teachers give them another choice to sing or an activity that can earn them the credit without penalty.
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ssmom79
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Opt out of singing. Just like you can opt out when they pledge to the flag.
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elliesmom
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Reged: 11/07/05
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The only problem I have with the athiests here is that they seem to not understand that most difficult classical choral arrangements are not secular. They were arranged for CHOIRS in churches. When my SS was in HS they had them do alot of songs in Latin and one in Italian (since I understand latin *I* knew what he was saying). So no one would whine about the religious aspect I assume, but he hated that it made it harder to learn the music. But they were a competitive, invitation only tryouts choir. If you want the arrangements that are going to sound amazing and win contests - NEARLY ALL music was originally sang in a church or during a time where belief in god/jesus was a part of the public vernacular. I don't have a problem with a kid refusing to sing certain parts, but if you are going to bytch about the music you better have a viable alternative.
Singing in choir and learning a song isn't really about what you are saying - its about the skill. Any more than reading a book aloud is forcing you to believe what it says. I managed to read Crime and Punishment without ascribing to belief of the main character - killing/robbing selfish greedy people is OK - nor did I feel that belief was being forced upon me.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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