Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19880
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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But why can you folks not respect that not everyone BELIEVES like you do, and a GRADUATION is NOT a place to try and CONVERT people. Hey, on a street corner, go for it, but.....
---> First of all, how can one when you said yesterday that that 'preaching' was NOT allowed in a public venue; you can't deny that a street corner is a very public venue.
---> Second, he was NOT trying to convert anyone. If anything, I would say that he was protesting (via his First Amendment rights) what had been done to the school board. You could attempt to say that a graduation ceremony is not the place to protest, but in doing so, you would be [once again] displaying your hypocrisy.
They cannot even BOYCOTT the graduation, because there are NO other options.
---> Sure there is...they can pick up their diploma at the office or have it mailed to them. The entire graduation ceremony is simply a symbol, there is NO law that says you HAVE to attend it.
Bottom line, the graduation belongs to ALL the seniors.
---> Even the Christian ones.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30354
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"Red is one of the people who have served to protect your right to speak freely. So I will clarify it for you, enjoy your freedom to be an a$$hole to one of those who have served to defend your right to do so."
So was Nidal Hasan, you want to defend HIM as well?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30354
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"The minute you expose your child to the 'world'...television, radio, newspaper, going to a friend's house, going to the store, going to school, etc...you run the risk of countering the PARENTAL teachings of a child."
And why THING about SCHOOL differentiates it from all of the other things? Oh yeah, SCHOOL IS MANDATORY.
"---> Why should I have to explain to MY kids that YOUR [non]religion is wrong"
I am sorry, are you aware of a student giving a speech touting atheisim? If so, I would be interested in seeing it, and I would disagree with THAT as well.
"Why should I have to explain to MY kids that YOUR political views are wrong"
You shouldn't, political views have no place in school as well.
"---> Probably the same reason why Atheists feel the need to inject THEIR beliefs onto everyone else."
I am NOT trying to convert you to anything, just trying to get you and your to SHUT UP about YOUR beliefs to MY kids.
"---> They do. A person's relationship with Christ is personal."
Then SHUT THE FVCK UP about it!!!
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30354
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"---> First of all, how can one when you said yesterday that that 'preaching' was NOT allowed in a public venue"
A SCHOOL is not a PUBLIC VENUE, it is a PUBLIC SCHOOL. Any other BASIC ENGLISH WORDS I can define for you?
"If anything, I would say that he was protesting (via his First Amendment rights) what had been done to the school board."
Why would someone NOT trying to FORCE their religion on people PROTEST the inability to FORCE their religion on everybody?
"---> Sure there is...they can pick up their diploma at the office or have it mailed to them."
Yeah, great option, the NON CHRISTIAN kid should not be able to enjoy graduation, so the CHRISTIAN kid can PRAY, where he has NO DAMN BUSINESS praying.
"The entire graduation ceremony is simply a symbol, there is NO law that says you HAVE to attend it."
So why don't the CHRISTIAN students have their OWN graduation at a CHURCH?
"---> Even the Christian ones."
Yep, just CAN'T openly PRAY...BECAUSE ITS A FVCKING SCHOOL!!!!!!
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19880
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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The Christian decided to use the captive audience to PREACH at them. Bad choice and one of the MAJOR reasons people are leaving religion in DROVES.
---> Actually, the reason why people are leaving religion is because Atheists have converted them.
You folks are ANNOYING.
---> Yes you are...only slightly more than the guys who run around in suits and robes.
And honestly, for DECADES, us non believers has stood there silently, bowed our heads, and remained silent out of RESPECT. And NOW, when WE ask YOU guys to TONE IT DOWN, and respect US, by remaining SILENT about YOUR beliefs, we are told you have a RIGHT, and we HAVE to listen, and WE are not respecting YOUR RIGHTS. Well, we DID, and ALL you folks did was get WORSE AND WORSE. But respect is a TWO WAY STREET, and you people have ZERO respect for OTHER peoples religion and/or beliefs.
---> Do you proofread before you post? I only ask because there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between 'tone it down' and 'remaining silent'. I don't know about you, but as an example, when I asked my kids to 'tone it down', I'm not telling them to shut up...only lower the volume. You want to eradicate Christianity...period. You want Christmas to ONLY be holiday about Jingle Bells, Frosty the Snowman and materialism. Thanksgiving should only be about turkey and football. Easter should only be about the Easter Bunny and chocolate. Should probably get rid of Halloween since it also has religious roots (pagan and Christian).
---> Now sure where the 'WORSE AND WORSE' is coming from. What is 'worse' than the Crusades? What is 'worse' than forced conversion or death? What is 'worse' now, than over the last 5 decades? Please be specific in your answer.
---> I really dislike it when you say "you people" because NO ONE HERE has ever done the things you accuse us of doing. NO ONE HERE has ever preached at you, has NEVER tried to convert you, has NEVER ridiculed your beliefs, etc. You say that respect is a two-way street, but you only travel one-way. You want us to be respectful of YOU, but where is your respect of us? You constantly call us names***, your constantly ridicule our beliefs.
*** - Yes, I have called you an idiot and an a$$hole, but that is based on your behavior, NOT because you're an Atheist or because I don't have an answer. On the other hand, you constantly call Christians on this board names because of their beliefs (or perceived beliefs) or because you're wrong but don't want to admit it.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30354
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"You want to eradicate Christianity...period."
Yeah, thats why I say keep it in your CHURCH, right?
"You want Christmas to ONLY be holiday about Jingle Bells, Frosty the Snowman and materialism."
Nope AGAIN. I want a store to be free from Christian financial TERRORISM if they try and respect OTHER religions. The whole "Happy Holidays" thing is merely to respect ALL religions, instead of JUST Christianity. You folks didn't INVENT Christmas, stop acting like you OWN it.
"Thanksgiving should only be about turkey and football."
LMAO, Thanksgiving has NOTHING AT ALL to do with religion. But it would not surprise me to think you are under the impression that no one thanked ANYONE until Christianity.
"Should probably get rid of Halloween since it also has religious roots (pagan and Christian)."
Oddly enough, MANY MANY Christian groups have tried to eliminate it.
You are playing victim, when you and yours are solely in control. Its really kinda pathetic. But keep it up. You have EXCUSED your name calling and want to criticize MINE, LMAO, that is just SO out in left field, there is nothing further to discuss.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19880
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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A SCHOOL is not a PUBLIC VENUE, it is a PUBLIC SCHOOL. Any other BASIC ENGLISH WORDS I can define for you?
---> No...because obviously you don't understand basic English words. The dictionary defines 'venue' as "a place where events of a specific type are held". Since children are taught in schools, a school IS a venue.
Yeah, great option...
---> Neither here nor there; you said there were no other options when clearly there are. NEXT.
Yep, just CAN'T openly PRAY...BECAUSE ITS A FVCKING SCHOOL!!!!!!
---> Show me where it says that students can't pray at school? Oh, that's right, you can't because you can:
The Supreme Court has repeatedly held that the First Amendment requires public school officials to be neutral in their treatment of religion, showing neither favoritism toward nor hostility against religious expression such as prayer.
Accordingly, the First Amendment forbids religious activity that is sponsored by the government but protects religious activity that is initiated by private individuals, and the line between government-sponsored and privately initiated religious expression is vital to a proper understanding of the First Amendment's scope. As the Court has explained in several cases, "there is a crucial difference between government speech endorsing religion, which the Establishment Clause forbids, and private speech endorsing religion, which the Free Speech and Free Exercise Clauses protect."
The Supreme Court's decisions over the past forty years set forth principles that distinguish impermissible governmental religious speech from the constitutionally protected private religious speech of students. For example, teachers and other public school officials may not lead their classes in prayer, devotional readings from the Bible, or other religious activities. Nor may school officials attempt to persuade or compel students to participate in prayer or other religious activities. Such conduct is "attributable to the State" and thus violates the Establishment Clause.
Similarly, public school officials may not themselves decide that prayer should be included in school-sponsored events. In Lee v. Weisman, for example, the Supreme Court held that public school officials violated the Constitution in inviting a member of the clergy to deliver a prayer at a graduation ceremony. Nor may school officials grant religious speakers preferential access to public audiences, or otherwise select public speakers on a basis that favors religious speech. In Santa Fe Independent School District v. Doe, for example, the Court invalidated a school's football game speaker policy on the ground that it was designed by school officials to result in pregame prayer, thus favoring religious expression over secular expression.
Although the Constitution forbids public school officials from directing or favoring prayer, students do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate," and the Supreme Court has made clear that "private religious speech, far from being a First Amendment orphan, is as fully protected under the Free Speech Clause as secular private expression." Moreover, not all religious speech that takes place in the public schools or at school-sponsored events is governmental speech. For example, "nothing in the Constitution ... prohibits any public school student from voluntarily praying at any time before, during, or after the school day," and students may pray with fellow students during the school day on the same terms and conditions that they may engage in other conversation or speech. Likewise, local school authorities possess substantial discretion to impose rules of order and pedagogical restrictions on student activities, but they may not structure or administer such rules to discriminate against student prayer or religious speech. For instance, where schools permit student expression on the basis of genuinely neutral criteria and students retain primary control over the content of their expression, the speech of students who choose to express themselves through religious means such as prayer is not attributable to the state and therefore may not be restricted because of its religious content. Student remarks are not attributable to the state simply because they are delivered in a public setting or to a public audience. As the Supreme Court has explained: "The proposition that schools do not endorse everything they fail to censor is not complicated," and the Constitution mandates neutrality rather than hostility toward privately initiated religious expression.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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Sherron
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/25/06
Posts: 20167
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""Red is one of the people who have served to protect your right to speak freely. So I will clarify it for you, enjoy your freedom to be an a$$hole to one of those who have served to defend your right to do so."
So was Nidal Hasan, you want to defend HIM as well?"
Enjoy your freedom to be an a$$hole to one of those who have served to defend your right to do so, by comparing his actions of defending a student's right to free speech to the actions of a mass murdering terrorist who killed 13 people and wounded 32.
Analogy fail, level expert.
Have you found the law yet that prohibits student-initiated prayer, or will there be just more appalling personal attacks from you to deflect from this?
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30354
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Yep, I was calling Red a murdering terrorist, you got me...and its DONE.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19880
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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And why THING about SCHOOL differentiates it from all of the other things? Oh yeah, SCHOOL IS MANDATORY
---> Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with what I said.
I am NOT trying to convert you to anything, just trying to get you and your to SHUT UP about YOUR beliefs to MY kids
---> Huh...I have never met your kids much less spoken to them about anything.
Then SHUT THE FVCK UP about it!!!
---> We keep telling you that, but you don't listen.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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