gr8Dad
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Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30354
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"---> Had nothing to do with being careful, but simply because 'religion' wasn't the issue then that it is today."
Because NON Christian religions and atheism represented such a small group, that the Christian religions could over ride and over rule them. That is changing.
"If you objected to saying "one nation under God" or didn't want your kid saying it...ya just didn't say it."
Well, that and it WASN'T IN THE PLEDGE ORIGINALLY.
"If the school was having a Halloween party and you didn't want your kid attending...other arrangements for your child were made. NOT today...oh no...sue the school and make sure that NO ONE gets to say the Pledge or have a party."
LMAO, funny that you mention HALLOWEEN. Having resided in the South for quite a few years, I ASSURE you it was the CHURCHES that took Halloween out of schools, NOT the Atheists.
"---> Say what you want, but religion IS under attack."
You need to stop confusing "under attack" with "they can no longer do what they want". Religion CANNOT be "under attack" as it is a COMPLETELY personal thing. What is "under attack" is the PRIMARILY Christian desire to do what they want where they want, when they want, regardless of the rights of OTHERS to not have to LISTEN to it. And yes, in a PUBLIC SCHOOL, my child has a RIGHT to NOT be exposed to YOUR religious beliefs. Sorry if that pisses you off, but it is a FACT.
"The First Amendment guarantees the right of freedom OF religion, but there are growing elements that believe that it should be freedom FROM religion."
Actually, you are COMPLETELY wrong. The First Ammendment guarantees that you have the right to freely EXERCISE your religion. But YOUR rights end where MINE begin and vice versa. So if the state determines that MY child must go to school, and I do not want MY child learning about YOUR religion, you cannot preach it there.
"Think of what happened to the USSR under Stalin...religious property was confiscated, religion was ridiculed, believers were harassed, atheism was propagated in the schools; and that's just the nice stuff. We already see a lot of that today..."
NONE of that is occuring here, and you know it. No religious property has been confiscated, the GOVERNMENT is not ridiculing religion (PEOPLE do, but that is covered under the first ammendment as well. You get to pray, we get to laugh at you), believers are not harrassed (but do an AWFUL lot of harrassing themselves), etc etc.
The problem with YOUR belief right now is that you ONLY see "religion" as CHRISTIANITY, and I hate to tell ya, but there are others (shh, don't tell the JW's), and they deserve as much respect as YOURS.
"...you have certain elements that are demanding that churches should be taxed, we see the ridicule here, we've seen instances of harassment on the news."
Churches SHOULD be taxed. The same way as any other business. And if that church gives away a all of its money, then it can CLAIM that and take its tax liability to zero. Instead, you have preachers in these Megachurches making seven figures, and not paying ANY tax.
"we see the ridicule here"
I think that would be the same freedom of speech that lets you pray how you want.
"we've seen instances of harassment on the news"
Yeah, like businesses having the AUDACITY to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. What it comes down to is that people are becoming more EDUCATED, and religion is going AWAY.
"The ironic thing is...it is BECAUSE of the "godless Communists" that "God" was added to the Pledge and our currency."
Yeah,and thirty years later, it took us OUTSPENDING THEM on defense to beat them. GOD had NOTHING to do with it.
"Seventy plus years later...[censored] is a republic with a huge religious population and we are becoming "godless Socialists"."
Why is it that you feel that if you have to keep your religious beliefs private when in a PUBLIC GOVERNMENT FINANCED entity, that you feel you are losing power? Is your God SO weak and powerless that he needs his followers to CONSTANTLY praise him in public to survive? Really?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Redlegg
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26787
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An atheist group is pointing fingers at the school board for a South Carolina valedictorian who ripped up his prepared remarks at a graduation ceremony and instead recited the Lord’s Prayer.
The Freedom From Religion Foundation said the Pickens County School District is actually at fault for creating a pro-Christian atmosphere that encouraged proselytizing — and that tone indirectly prompted the 18-year-old graduate, Roy Costner IV, to recite the prayer during his podium address, Raw Story reported.
“The valedictorian who so insensitively inflicted Christian prayer on a captive audience at a secular graduation ceremony is a product of a school district which itself has set an unconstitutional example by hosting school board prayer,” said Annie Laurie Gaylor, co-president of the FFRF, in Raw Story.
FFRF has been attuned to the Christian atmosphere at the school for some time, she said. Members have sent several letters to school administration officials, warning that the prayers spoken during board monthly meetings are unconstitutional and accusing of discriminatory job practices that favor Christians, Raw Story reported. In the face of looming lawsuits, the school cut prayers at graduation ceremonies.
But Mr. Costner went rogue during his graduation remarks — sparking a supportive cheer from graduation attendees that grabbed the ears of the nation, but angered the atheist group further.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30354
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Oh, so if a lot of people don't LIKE a law, they can just IGNORE it? That ain't gonna go over so well with the police when a group of kids decides to SPEED through town, because, well, they have a RIGHT to drive how they want. And when they all get together and DRINK, because, well, they have a RIGHT to drink.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Redlegg
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26787
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As an adult, he made his choice, and he is willing to accept the punishment, or the applause, just by making the decision.
Then again.....“The valedictorian who so insensitively inflicted Christian prayer on a captive audience at a secular graduation ceremony is a product of a school district which itself has set an unconstitutional example by hosting school board prayer,”
This is not a stretch at all, captive, the school board hosting school prayer....the only answer is to ban the speeches, or have 21 valedictorians, and none of them give a speech......
So what should happen to this kid, or the school board, and should the district pay for the counseling required for those so insensitively exposed to the lord's prayer ?
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30354
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"So what should happen to this kid, or the school board, and should the district pay for the counseling required for those so insensitively exposed to the lord's prayer ?"
Nothing should happen to the kid, because of two reasons. One, no 17 year old thinks THAT much about God, his PARENTS put him up to this. Second, a rule needs to be made that Valedictorian speeches need to be pre screened and if he goes off script, he gets shut down.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Redlegg
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26787
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He was 18, and he was exercising his rights, under the constitution. Congress made no law, the school did not officially sponsor anything. Doesn't shutting him down violate his rights? He is speaking, not the school, it is his speech, not the schools. Regardless of how anyone feels about religion, do we really want to shut down speech we don't like or agree with?
Here is an example:
RED LION, Pa. (AP) — A central Pennsylvania school district has refused to allow a transgender student's male name to be announced during his graduation ceremony later this week.
Eighteen-year-old Isaak Wolfe had asked the Red Lion Area School District in York County to allow his male name to be announced during Friday night's ceremony.
The school board said earlier that Wolfe would be allowed to wear a boy's black graduation gown. But board solicitor Ben Pratt said a diploma is a legal document and must bear the recipient's legal name. Wolfe's given female name — Sierra Stambaugh — is to be read as he walks across the stage.
American Civil Liberties Union lawyer Molly Tack-Hooper said Wolfe is in the process of changing his name but hasn't had time to complete the process.
Why not just read the name?
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spinnerdegrassi
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Reged: 08/20/06
Posts: 8000
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He'll be punished with a life of believing in a fake deity, and then find out he was fed a line of BS by his parents.
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Sherron
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Reged: 11/25/06
Posts: 20167
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"South Carolina, go figure.
You know, I think Republicans would do better in upcoming elections if they didn't make religion their principle concern. Remember separation of church and state? Republicans of past did not preach like this. I don't understand why they are so focused on it now."
Separation of church and state... does that mean words from the founding fathers are okay to use again in current context? Not sure why you're trying to turn this into something political, there was no mention of party line, and if this kid is running for any office, I missed it.
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Sherron
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Reged: 11/25/06
Posts: 20167
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"My religious freedom is not "under attack.""
Well, then all is well in englishland and no one else should care...
"I still think the Republican Party should not define themselves as the Christian Conservative party. It does them no good to exclude the millions of voters who do not identify with that group."
You don't like Republicans anyway, why do you care what they do. Millions of voters didn't agree with Obama, I saw no attempt to include us, only division, division, division.
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Sherron
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/25/06
Posts: 20167
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"All I'm saying is that I want a Republican candidate who does not speak as if he or she is talking mostly to the religious Right."
Romney didn't, I take it you voted for him... the left was very persistent that Obama is Christian, go figure.
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