Gecko
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...over license plate
WARNING: Gr8Dad - This is MY thread and you are NOT allowed on it.
A federal appeals court ruled on Tuesday that a man can sue the state of Oklahoma over its license plates.
The man, Keith Cressman, has argued that the state's standard license plate, which depicts a Native American shooting an arrow into the sky, goes against the separation of church and state, according to a report from Tulsa World.
He sued a number of state officials in 2011. That lawsuit was initially dismissed in 2012 but has since been reinstated by the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
According to Tulsa World, the court ruled that the image of Allan Houser's "Sacred Rain Arrow" sculpture, which is featured on 3 million license plates in the state, could be seen as an endorsement of a specific religion.
Cressman, who told Tulsa World he "adheres to historic Christian beliefs," argued that he shouldn't have to pay extra for a specialized plate that he does not find objectionable.
Specialty plates that do not feature the image of the sculpture cost more money. Cressman was also told that if he attempted to cover up the image of the "Sacred Rain Arrow" sculpture, he would be subject to a fine.
Cressman's attorney, Nathan Kellum, told the Associated Press that his client "doesn't want to be forced to say something that he does not want to say."
Diane Clay, who serves as a spokeswoman for Oklahoma's office of the attorney general, which is fighting the lawsuit, said in a statement, "We'll continue to defend the state's position that Oklahoma's license plate design does not violate Mr. Cressman's constitutional rights."
[censored]://news.y a h o o.com/blogs/lookout/court-rules-oklahoma-man-sue-over-license-plate-220824976.html
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BAER
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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gr8Dad
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A few things. For the record, I did have you on ignore, but I wanted top read the story. Second, I have NEVER EVER told you in an INITIAL post, to NOT post on my threads. I have told you that if you don't LIKE my threads, don't post on them, but never said NOT to post there from the start.
And third, most importantly, THIS is the example of the crazy sh!t you have been pulling in the last year or so.
As for the topic of the article, I agree, if they place a religious icon on a license plate, there needs to be an ALTERNATE plate, available at the SAME fee, that does NOT have a religious icon on it.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Redlegg
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And this is the exact bullshit double standard. How is it possible for a person who says the government should not promote any religion, suddenly says, well it's ok, as long as there is one with no religion.
See what you did there, as long as it was not a cross, or a fish on the license plate it was ok. (get it, OK) So that particular religion is fine, that religion, and well....your views. What happened to all points of view, what happened to every religion....
How about a native legend being represented on the tag because that is the history of the state. A sculpture based on a story passed down through the generations does represent the history of the region. It acknowledges it, it shows it. The religious aspect is intertwined with it, because it is intertwined with history of the region. You cannot have one without the other.
How about Mr. Christian just shuts the hell up and either buys a special tag, and gets on with his life, or realizes he is not the only game in town and gets his freaking tag.
Amazing, no problem with the state putting one religion on the tag, as long as your views are represented, and suddenly everyone else's be damned. It has never been about some misguided fairness principal, it has been about payback. It is like affirmative action for everyone but Christians.
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gr8Dad
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I think you are possibly going insane. I have ALWAYS had that approach to something. If the "religious" wish to have "religion" in a state run ceremony, etc, there needs to be an alternative for NON religious people to attend, etc. For example, at the graduation, if the Christians kids wanna pray or whatever, fine, but don't force the NON Christians to be there.
Of course, that makes the claim that I HATE Christians sound stupid..as it SHOULD, since I do not.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Redlegg
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Of course, the textbook definition of Insanity....
"You need to stop confusing "under attack" with "they can no longer do what they want". Religion CANNOT be "under attack" as it is a COMPLETELY personal thing."
*****Unless the state is putting a non Christian one on license plates....
Why is it that you feel that if you have to keep your religious beliefs private when in a PUBLIC GOVERNMENT FINANCED entity, that you feel you are losing power? Is your God SO weak and powerless that he needs his followers to CONSTANTLY praise him in public to survive? Really?
*****Unless the state is putting a non Christian one on license plates....
In the bedroom, in your yard, on a public street corner, just NOT IN SCHOOLS. Why is that SO FVCKING HARD for you people to understand?
*****Unless the state is putting a non Christian one on license plates....
The Constitution says you have the right to EXERCISE your religion. You just cannot use the public school, where OTHER PEOPLE, who have DIFFERENT RELIGION BELIEFS OR LACK THEREOF, as your GYMNASIUM. Why is that SUCH A MUTHERFVCKING PROBLEM? WHY MUST YOU FORCE YOUR FVCKING BELIEFS WHERE THEY ARE NOT WANTED AND ARE NOT SHARED BY EVERYONE?
*****Unless the state is putting a non Christian one on license plates....
It wasn't? A PRAYER, specific to ONE religious denomination, being recited by the person the SCHOOL chose to be the Valedictorian isn't SCHOOL LED? So I guess if the school chooses a speaker to come in, and THEY start praying, well, its not the SCHOOL, so its not school LED< right? You are splitting HAIRS, and LOOKING for a way to get YOUR religious beliefs preached. And you KNOW it.
*****Unless the state is putting a non Christian one on license plates....
And the FACT that you would CHEER someone for violating a rule, simply because its YOUR belief structure that is being supported, shows what your true character is. Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasars, and to God what is GOD'S. The graduation was for ALL of the students, but you Christians just HAVE to SHOVE your fvcking beliefs into it. Can't just have a graduation for EVERYONE, nah, GOT to get that PRAYER in there.
*****Unless the state is putting a non Christian one on license plates....
Nope. You found a way around the TEXT of the law, with complete disregard for the INTENT of the law. GREAT lesson for the kids. Find a loophole and exploit it to get the Christian message out there. Such a very UNChristian method.
*****Unless the state is putting a non Christian one on license plates....
No, if you wish to allow YOUR members or believers to spout YOUR beliefs, you need to allow a counter point. In other words, if the Christian person can talk about how the invisible guy helped him etc, there should also be an atheist student who can say that God doesn't exist, and a Buddist student to talk about how karma helped him. But the EASIEST solution is to NOT have ANY religious stuff, and keep it at HOME, where it BELONGS.
*****Unless the state is putting a non Christian one on license plates....
Oh, so since there isn't enough time, lets ONLY give the Christian person a chance. What a COINCIDENCE.
*****Unless the state is putting a non Christian one on license plates....
and it goes on and on. The tolerance extends to any religion, but Christianity, that much is obvious.....
Are natives morons, and retarded for their beliefs, and the state for allowing those religious beliefs on a tag?
Blame the people, blame history, get payback, whatever you decide it is, but either way, you can no longer talk about selectively applying the law....
So what is it going to be, get rid of the symbol on the tag, offer one other view, or offer all views......
Not sure about insanity, but double, or triple standard, oh yeahhhhh......and what part of the constitution covers this again????
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gr8Dad
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I cannot be any clearer. You CANNOT mandate use of an item by the government (license plates) and make them preferential to one specifical religion, charging EXTRA to get plates WITHOUT the religious icon on them.
This is simple, not sure why you would even DEFEND it.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Redlegg
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The insanity is you suddenly have no problem with the state promoting one religion, and as the alternative, no religion...it certainly cannot be about separation of church and state.
You have been very clear, the state promoting this religion is fine, as long as there an option for your own views as well. No others at the same price, no cross, fish, no crescent, or star of David...just the one religion, and your views.....what about the person who is offended by both of those views you are willing to allow, what about them.....
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Redlegg
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According to your own views, it should be all or none, well until now, and what is different now, hmmmm, what could it be.....
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Redlegg
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Natives, go figure.
Natives will be punished with a life of believing in a fake deity, and then find out they were fed a line of BS by their parents.
Didn't work too well for the arrow shooters killed in Oklahoma.
Atheists don't live in savage states like Oklahoma.
If all the time wasted praying in this country was put to better use, like people actually exercising, then maybe this wouldn't be the drunk reservations of the United States of America.
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Redlegg
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And this classic...
"Great, you got it, everything is fine. I will expect the SAME support when the Wiccan kid gets up there, or the atheist kid gets up there. You, along with many (NOT ALL) Christians will have a problem with it, but we have become accustomed to the double standard."
And now you have it, the symbol is on the tag, get over it, Mr Christian can either get on board, or be grumpy....
Oh look, it is the same support.....explain to me about the double standard again....
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spinnerdegrassi
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Lol, what do you expect. It's Oklahoma. Christians and Hillbillies. Great combo for being a dumbass.
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Redlegg
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Who knew, objecting to a religious icon on a license plate makes them a dumbass, too funny
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spinnerdegrassi
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It's the christian part of the complainer that makes him the dumbass.
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Redlegg
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Well of course it is......didn't see that one coming.....you could almost say that is a revelation....
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Sherron
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"Well of course it is......didn't see that one coming.....you could almost say that is a revelation.... "
Well, at least spinner admits his issue is Christians, regardless of the details of any story... gr8 is still in denial.
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spinnerdegrassi
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I just find christians inferior based on their lack of personal responsibility for their actions .
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Sherron
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"I just find christians inferior..."
Well, Christians, women, whites, it's quite a long list, I'm not sure who you don't consider inferior...
"...based on their lack of personal responsibility for their actions ."
Not people in general with that trait, not everyone, only Christians, and of course we can apply your idea to the entire group... and it only makes you refreshingly honest, or maybe funny, but not at all hateful, or biased... unlike those conservatives... who hate anyone different from them and are various –ists and –phobes, for applying the same standard to everyone... too funny...
I'm always amazed how someone can openly state their hatred of other groups, and as long as it's the right groups, the groups that are cool to hate, then people laugh it off, oh, he didn't mean it like thaaaaat... but "IRS" is just another racist dog whistle...
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spinnerdegrassi
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Not my fault christians chose to believe in a fake god, and are thus worthy of derision.
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Sherron
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"Not my fault christians chose to believe in a fake god, and are thus worthy of derision."
People who believe in false gods are worthy of derision, or only Christians... are there any gods who aren't false in spinnerland... do arrows carry prayers to the spirit world?
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Gecko
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For the record, I did have you on ignore, but I wanted top read the story.
---> Excuses, excuses, excuses.
---> For the record...you could have googled the subject line; though it was not complete, even you could have figured out that when the first page is filled with the same line, that would be the story.
---> For the record...when you PUBLICLY put someone on 'ignore', even if you sneak a peak, you still don't respond.
I have told you that if you don't LIKE my threads, don't post on them, but never said NOT to post there from the start.
---> You might want to go research that.
And third, most importantly, THIS is the example of the crazy sh!t you have been pulling in the last year or so.
---> What...posting articles for discussion? Been doing that on and off for a lot of years.
---> What...not posting a definitive opinion (pro or con/for or against)? There is no law/rule that says that a discussion has to be about how you FEEL as opposed to how you THINK, or has to be about how you THINK as opposed to how you FEEL. Neither are mutually inclusive or exclusive; it's perfectly 'okay' to have conflicting views because the world is not a black and white place.
---> What...treating you like you treat me? I know...it's not working; you're too dense, too obtuse, too sanctimonious, too 'holier than thou'. Yes I know that last two are similar, but you're so religiously right in your hypocrisy that it fits.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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spinnerdegrassi
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[quote] "Not my fault christians chose to believe in a fake god, and are thus worthy of derision."
People who believe in false gods are worthy of derision, or only Christians... are there any gods who aren't false in spinnerland... do arrows carry prayers to the spirit world? [/quote]
When muslims, jews et al, try to push their beliefs on me at school, workplace, in public like christians do, then they'll be worthy of my derision as well. So far, in this lifetime, it's only christians who constantly choose to do so. Yet oddly enough, they don't think their prosthelytizing is pushing their ideas. They pretend it's something everyone wants to listen to. Thus confirming they're morons. When a Jew comes up to me to try to convince me the only way is to believe in his god, it'll be a first. Same with a muslim and allah. Christians don't seem to get it.
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Redlegg
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worthy of your derision, a goal to strive for, I am sure. It gets even better, it is not the hypocrisy, or the fake beliefs, only the fact that you have to listen to them, or when their ideas are pushed.....and yet still the guy who wants the religious icon off the license plate is the moron...that is rich.....so who is worthy of your derision, the people who want the religious icon on the license plate, or the ones who want it off.....who would be the proselytizers, and who would be the hypocrites in this case????
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spinnerdegrassi
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Christians are hypocrites. If you haven't figured that out yet, you didn't get brainwashed in the armed forces well enough.
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Sherron
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" When muslims, jews et al, try to push their beliefs on me at school, workplace, in public like christians do, then they'll be worthy of my derision as well. So far, in this lifetime, it's only christians who constantly choose to do so. Yet oddly enough, they don't think their prosthelytizing is pushing their ideas. They pretend it's something everyone wants to listen to. Thus confirming they're morons. When a Jew comes up to me to try to convince me the only way is to believe in his god, it'll be a first. Same with a muslim and allah. Christians don't seem to get it. "
But do they believe in false gods??? Who on this board has pushed Christianity on you to have earned your derision?? Or is it just guilt by association for you... and being able to say what you can't in real life... but hey, at least you're honest, you're not joking, you're showing your contempt, you really can't stand any Christians.
Or women... or whites... or...
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Sherron
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"Christians are hypocrites. If you haven't figured that out yet, you didn't get brainwashed in the armed forces well enough."
That's right, how could I forget... you can't stand our military either... another group worthy of your derision... Christians, women, whites, the military...
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spinnerdegrassi
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I look down on N@zi's as well. You're slipping.
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Sherron
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"I look down on N@zi's as well. You're slipping. "
Naaaaah... that one actually makes sense, they've earned contempt through their actions. Maybe n@zis are the same as Christians, women, whites, or the military for you, but I'll actually give you that one.
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Redlegg
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Christians are hypocrites. If you haven't figured that out yet, you didn't get brainwashed in the armed forces well enough.
So are you, we all are, guess you were absent that day in nursing class....
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finz
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[quote]Lol, what do you expect. It's Oklahoma. Christians and Hillbillies. Great combo for being a dumbass. [/quote]
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and Native Americans shooting arrows, there must have been some of them, at some point
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MinnesotaMom
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Just remember, there are no athiests in Hell, because they are all begging for mercy once they get there.
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gr8Dad
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And God, being advertised as ALL MERCIFUL in his book, has to give mercy then, right.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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spinnerdegrassi
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Hell is just a made up christian construct. No need to worry about something that doesn't exist.
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MinnesotaMom
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[quote]And God, being advertised as ALL MERCIFUL in his book, has to give mercy then, right. [/quote]
As far as I know, it's too late then. Mercy and forgiveness occur on Earth.
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Gecko
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And God, being advertised as ALL MERCIFUL in his book, has to give mercy then, right.
---> No, because God is also a vengeful God.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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