Miranda
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
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[quote]I don't know what you guys don't understand about the fact that they bothmake THE SAME MONEY.... [/quote]
What does that have to do with the house and the 401K? That is community property.
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
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onmyownnow
recently joined
Reged: 05/25/07
Posts: 22
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Really, even if he didn't contribute to the down payment, the upkeep, or the payment of the mortgage! He's entitled to my 401K, something I worked for in my chosen field, while putting him through law school, but it now seems even though I contributed significantly to his educational opportunity, most who have posted here feel very strongly that spousal maintenance is not warranted because ??? Why is everyone focused on what he should get? Notice that you mentioned what he should get, but not what I am entitled to by Arizona State Law...such as half of his legal practice??? HMMMMM....makes me wonder again, from what base of experience/expertise you speak???
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"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine!!" --unknown
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spinnerdegrassi
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 08/20/06
Posts: 7947
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What he is entitled to is quite clear. You made the decision to live in a community property state and what goes with it is split division of assets. Your claim is more arbitrary since you'se basing it on a presumption on not what currently exists, but what you presume will exist over time, that being him making more money and you tapping out at where you are currently. That's speculation on your part as you have no clue what he'll be earning 2 years from now or 10 years from now, nor what you'll be earning during that time also. If he decided to do legal aid a year from now, then what? Does he get to ask you for alimony since he'd be making less than you?
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Miranda
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
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Are you already divorced? From one of your other posts you mention that some order was already entered but there was not a paper order (or something like that).
In community property states both are entitled to the assets and the debt equally. That sucks, but that is how it is.
I know this as I experienced this in NM. I had to pay for debt that I did not create and my ex also got a portion my retirement even though he forfeited his. So yes, many of us have been thru the ringer with our former spouses. BTW I got my first CS payment this past spring since 1996. I have been to court with my ex no less than twice a year for the past five years, with the last court date being last week.I have spent over 10K in attorney fees in the past two years alone, I guess I would be pushing 50K in attorney fees if I added everything up, and that money I could have used to send my sons to college.
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
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onmyownnow
recently joined
Reged: 05/25/07
Posts: 22
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Again, you make no mention of the current value of his law practice or that he is entitled to pay his half of the community debt (according to ARS Title 25). Why is that??
I think you may have a bit of a blind spot when it comes to this topic....
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"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine!!" --unknown
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onmyownnow
recently joined
Reged: 05/25/07
Posts: 22
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Thank you for the question...we are not divorced as of yet. The order regarding property has been issued; however, the judge ignored basic community property law and real estate law for that matter.
He split the real property and my 401K. He did not split the community debt nor the assets of the law practice. He did not do any equalization on the cars in question.
At this point, final decisions on Child Support and Spousal Maintenance are still in question and will not be decided until August, hence my post in two different areas.
Yes, my attorney's fees are quite substantial. I couldn't imagine trying to do this without one, especially looking back at what he has pulled so far. Even though I produced an email from my STBX stating that his attorney was doing every thing at cost, because his attorney came in with an Affadavit regarding his fees (bogus - they have been friends for years), I am solely responsible for my attorney's fees.
Thank you again for your posts...you have given me some things to think about!! Hope all is well in your corner of the world!!
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"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine!!" --unknown
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19803
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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Since you don't seem to want to listen to anyone else unless they tell you want they want to hear, maybe you will listen to me since I actually worked in Family Law in Arizona.
First of all...I don't know where you got that "most divorces take 3 months in Arizona"...it's simply NOT true. The ONLY way THAT is going to happen is 1) you have a Non-Covenant and 2) ya'll file a "Consent Decree", which means you have to agree on EVERYTHING.
Given what you've said so far, I'm not the least bit surprised that ya'll have been at this for a year...keep it up and you'll still be arguing when the kids all graduate from high school (or college). The longest divorce I was ever involved with lasted 8 years; they were very wealthy when the divorce started and had nothing when it ended...and I mean NOTHING; no houses, no cars, no boats, no "toys", no jewelry, no club memberships, no money, businesses and careers destroyed...their own children wanted NOTHING to do with them! It's called "scorched earth"...the willingness to totally destroy everything JUST so the other person doesn't get it. I saw one other case that was heading in that direction...husband was an attorney with an office in Biltmore, wife had some "boutique" in Scottsdale; it wasn't his first affair (or hers either), but this time he was "in love" and she was NOT going to put up with THAT. She went to his office...WITH THEIR DAUGHTER...and destroyed it; she printed out a list of client and mailed it to the Arizona Republic, she took active case files and mailed them to opposing counsel and then taking files of potential clients...gave them to HER attorney.
Second...Arizona does allow for alimony/spousal support and I noticed that you marked a few “considerations” in support of it being granted:
--- Contributed to the educational opportunities of the other spouse;
--- The contribution of the spouse seeking maintenance to the earning ability of the other spouse; and
--- The extent to which the spouse seeking maintenance has reduced that spouse's income or career opportunities for the benefit of the other spouse.
Unfortunately, in looking for what “supports” your position, you neglected the other “considerations” which, based on the “facts” mentioned at the end of this list, preclude (prevent) an award of support alimony/spousal:
--- Lacks sufficient property, including property apportioned to the spouse, to provide for that spouse's reasonable needs;
--- Is unable to be self-sufficient through appropriate employment or is the custodian of a child whose age or condition is such that the custodian should not be required to seek employment outside the home or lacks earning ability in the labor market adequate to be self-sufficient;
--- The age, employment history, earning ability and physical and emotional condition of the spouse seeking maintenance; and
--- The financial resources of the party seeking maintenance, including marital property apportioned to that spouse, and that spouse's ability to meet that spouse's own needs independently.
The facts are: married for 18 years; the first 6 were spent with you working while he earned his Degree; he’s been in practice for 13 years, 12 at the time the divorce was filed; you both earn the same amount and it is a “guess” that you have 2 children and they are probably between 10 and 14.
Also…the last item you listed…does NOT support a consideration of alimony/spousal support based upon the facts. So UNLESS you want to end up with half of………NOTHING (see below), quit fighting for what you are NOT going to get!
Third…Arizona is a “community property” state and as such, it does NOT matter who paid for what or who contributed to what or in whose name it is in (there are strict exception)…EVERYTHING acquired DURING the marriage belongs EQUALLY to BOTH parties. That means that he IS entitled to HALF of your 401(k), HALF of the equity of the marital home and HALF of ANY assets.
With that being said…your husband’s law Degree AND his practice ARE “marital assets” which means…yep…you are entitled to “half” of them. Now, you will want to hire an “expert” (can’t remember what company does this) who will evaluate your husband’s law practice and submit an appraisal. I caution over-inflating the value, because frankly, in Arizona, attorneys are like golf courses and swimming pools…there is one in almost every backyard. A “sole practitioner” can make a comfortable living, but they will never be rich or wealthy because the very nature of their practice prohibits it…even with an “of counsel” assisting them. I could give you a better direction, but I don’t know his area of law or what city he is in.
And along with assets, you have liabilities. Yeah it sucks that you are paying everything right now, but not to worry, half of everything you are paying will be debited against his side of the spreadsheet and credited to yours.
My advice is to QUIT FIGHTING!!! The MORE ya’ll fight, the LESS ya’ll will have in the end to split because ya’ll’s attorneys will have it. Take a look at the assets…divide the total in two and then you EACH take WHOLE items that equal or come as close as you can to your “share”. ANY items that you BOTH want or NEITHER wants…you don’t’ argue, you just sell it and split the money. ALL assets assumed/assigned will be transferred into the person’s name BEFORE the final decree is signed.
You do the SAME thing with ya’ll’s liabilities. You make a list, you split it equally…each taking “whole” debts. If there is an inequality, one pays the other cash to make up the difference. ALL debts assumed/assigned will be transferred into the person’s name BEFORE the final decree is signed.
STOP all the emotional bullshit of "s/he didn't do this of s/he did that"...what past is PAST...it's ALL about numbers now.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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onmyownnow
recently joined
Reged: 05/25/07
Posts: 22
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You failed to read that the decision on marital assets has been made and it did not follow standard Arizona Community property Law...
QUOTE "Thank you for the question...we are not divorced as of yet. The order regarding property has been issued; however, the judge ignored basic community property law and real estate law for that matter.
He split the real property and my 401K. He did not split the community debt nor the assets of the law practice. He did not do any equalization on the cars in question.
At this point, final decisions on Child Support and Spousal Maintenance are still in question and will not be decided until August, hence my post in two different areas.
So, the thought that everything is split equitably (most interpret that to be 50/50) because Arizona is a no fault community property state is not inclusive of every case.
To clarify my earlier statement, most uncontested divorces in Arizona take three months. Do the research, the numbers speak for themselves. My apologies for the confusion.
You also failed to notice that I am not the one that has filed motion after motion after motion, including insisting on a custody evaluation, he is. Try reading the post completely, before stepping up on your soapbox!!
So your assumption and advice, while noted, is ludicrous!! Perhaps, you too are of the mind, I should move out of my house, give him the keys to my car, reopen the joint bank accounts and continue to support him while he continues to practice law with the education that I paid for?? To what end, I ask you?
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"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine!!" --unknown
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Relayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 9506
Loc: Moorglade Mover
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[quote][quote]I don't know what you guys don't understand about the fact that they bothmake THE SAME MONEY.... [/quote]
What does that have to do with the house and the 401K? That is community property. [/quote]
Nothing, I was referring to OP's orginal fantasy of spousal maintenance, which a lot fo people here are continally telling her she will get.
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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onmyownnow
recently joined
Reged: 05/25/07
Posts: 22
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Perhaps if you learn how to read (critically and for detail), instead of trying to impress with your less than stellar intelligence, you would be able to answer your own question!!
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"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine!!" --unknown
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