LMVO23
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My parents have been together for 22 years until my mom told my dad that she wanted a divorce January 1. Honestly my childhood was perfect and I never would have expected my parents to get divorced of all people. Luckily, I'm 20 years old and 500 miles away from "home" in college so I'm not necessarily caught in the middle of it everyday. I have a great support system here including a beautiful steady relationship with my boyfriend. Things at "home" have been getting more and more complicated over the last couple of months since my parents are still sharing the same household and call each other "bad roommates". I'll save that for another post, keep an eye out ;)
I am turning 21 in a few weeks and I'm obviously really excited about this new "rite of passage". My original plan was to have dinner at a nice restaurant with my boyfriend, mom, aunt & uncle (mom's side), and my dad (as well as a glass of expensive wine) :) Now I'm told that my dad isn't welcome at my birthday dinner and my mom's family wants nothing to do with him. Of course I'm at a loss here because I want to enjoy my 21st birthday without conflict and I most certainly do not want to hurt anyone. I mentioned to my dad that I could have lunch with him on my birthday, then dinner with my mom; he questioned why it couldn't be the other way around- or even why he couldn't come to the dinner. He said that he didn't expect me to "stand up for what's right" because that's too much to put on me but I really feel that I can't just let this go on like it seems to be developing. I'm almost to the point of just going out with my boyfriend and maybe a couple friends although I know how much my family wants to spend that time with me.
I'm just curious as to what you guys think- I've been reading around on these forums and there are certainly a lot of intelligent people on here. I don't really know how to deal with being pulled in so many ways and not hurting anybody by making my own decisions.
Thanks a lot :)
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asurvivor
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I am really sorry that your fdamily cannot put their differences a side to make your day memoriable. Divorce creates alot of side taking which isn't necessary. It only take 2 to divorce not the WHOLE FAMILY. It's not uncommon in divorce world to cross over into dysfunctional until more solid ground is established. I'd like to say this won't effect you but anytime our parents hurt, so do we. Divorce take years before it is final and it is very stressful so be prepared, theres no doubt it effects the child even grown children.
My advice to you since they will not come to terms with their differences for a dinner then you make seperate plans with Mom and Dad. Maybe spend your birthday with boyfriend and friends and lean towards seeing one parent before actual date and one after! Don't give either your actual date so no one gets hurt. If they don't like that idea then tell them to grow up and come to XYZ Restaurant for dinner at 123 time on your b/day and leave the drama at the door.
You sound very mature and I think everything will be OK but you need to learn to open up to your parents especially if they can't come to terms for a simple dinner. What will your graduation from college be like or your wedding? They need to understand that even though they don't love each other you LOVE THEM and want them BOTH to share your life AND NOT AT DIFFERENT TIMES!
Good luck. I am a step-mom and my skids never got their parents together, EVER! Now there will never be hope for that for them but for you I HAVE HOPE.
Asurvivor
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LMVO23
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Thank you very much for your advice. At this point I think the best option is to have separate birthday "celebrations" especially since the wounds are still so fresh. I'm going to talk to my father again and see if he'll reconsider lunch. Meeting one parent before my birthday is unlikely as I will be traveling on that day. Luckily for holidays I've already made up my mind- going to the boyfriend's house, at least for this first round of holidays :) As for my wedding and graduation...I have hope that they will "grow up" for my sake by that point.
Thanks again.
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gr8Dad
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...he is being relegated to a lessor "meal", and only because MOM doesn't want him there.
Personally, I would put THEIR choice on THEIR heads. Invite everyone you want there, make it clear who will be there, and if Mom or her family doesn't want to come, oh well, THEIR loss.
I will be accused of bias here, but from what I see, Mom is usuing your desire for her to be there to force you to exclude Dad. That is reprehensible behavior. Dad doesn't sem to mind being there with Mom, so why is he being excluded?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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preemiemom
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And I do too, Gr8Dad. Why should Dad get a lunch and Mom gets a dinner? That's unfair.
However, there are only 1 dinner and 1 lunch during a day ;)
So, I like I think it was asurvivor's suggestion that BOTH get a dinner, just perhaps maybe 1 the day before the birthday and 1 the day after.
I think the original poster should spend her actual BIRTHDAY with NO family and spend it with her guy instead. Have a nice cozy adult dinner, enjoy that glass of wine.. and you'll have a nice dinner with Mom & her family and then Dad & his family (if applicable) on the before/after days, turning the birthday into a grand old 3 day celebration of your 21st.
Hopefully as time goes on, they'll get better, but it's all very fresh.. frankly, if they're still living under the same roof, they haven't even really STARTED to heal.
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The best we can do is live our lives with enlightened improvisation.
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gr8Dad
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...by not being able to actually be with his daughter on her ACTUAL birthday (which, for age 21, IS a big deal to me, I plan on purchasing my child's first legal drink for them, it a traditional thing), because MOM doesn't want him there?
Perhaps making each party responsible for their OWN choices will bring the crap to an end FASTER. IF Mom misses out on the birthday because she doesn't want to be there with Dad, perhaps she will think twice before doing it again.
In other words, why do cooperative parents have to miss out on things because we are afraid of angering the BAD parents?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Patrice
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The "cooperative" parent may not necessarily be the good guy or gal. I think it depends on the circumstances of the split. He/she may be the one who thinks everything is fine even though the other person is still very hurt or very angry.
It does sound like the dad is the "bigger person" for being willing to attend with the mom, and the mom is trying to manipulate the daughter.
If the split is fresh, I think the circumstances/feelings have more weight (to the parent refusing to be reasonable) than seeing the big picture. I know I have been in this situation, and was not willing to include my ex (and girlfriend) at son's graduation dinner, so it was with my side only. He may not have chosen to attend anyway, as my family would not have given him a warm welcome. It's lousy for the kids, but parents are human and don't always do the "right thing".
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To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world.
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preemiemom
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Do you never take ANY emotional factoring into consideration? Or everyone is just supposed to immediately turn on/turn off their feelings like a faucet? This is a classic Men are From Mars/Women are From Venus issue.
It's only been 6 months, they still co-habitate, we have NOOOO idea what the reason for the split is (even the OP said she was floored, had an idllyic childhood, no indications of problems). Did he cheat? Does he have a girlfriend currently? We don't know ANY of this. For all we know he's done something horrible to the mother and why should SHE be forced to play happy family if he is the one who destroyed it through his own actions? (for argument's sake).
I just don't get why you can't get that sometimes people actually do FEEL things? Get in touch with your inner estrogen (yes, you guys have some in there too, lol) and realize that sometimes people are wounded in the divorce process and it's not something than can heal overnight, or in 2 nights, or even in 6 months of nights.
Sounds like this is the first real potential "family" event since the split and they're just not in a place where they can all fake being happy family just yet.
If it were me, I wouldn't be able to do it today, 6 months post-split. Not sure I could do it 6 months from now either. People get hurt, they need time to heal. It's no different than a broken wrist, or a collapsed lung, or any other injury. It is a wound, and like all wounds, they take time to heal. First they scab over and it's a fragile balance... promoting healing while still going on with day-to-day, trying to not disrupt the scab, lest the wound re-open.
And then at some point, the scab falls off and you're left with a healed place.. albeit possibly with some scarring, a reminder of what was there.. but at least healed. Some people heal faster, others slower... but each person does so at their own pace. By forcing it, you may screw up the healing process.
I'd just let it go... if it were me, feeling your feeling that it's a special day, first drink whatever. I'd still try to balance that with not further hurting the person who I had spent so many years of my life with and having some sense of respect for them as a person. I'm sure I could come up with a compromise that satisfied my need to make the day special for my daughter, while not hurting my ex in the process.
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The best we can do is live our lives with enlightened improvisation.
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ssmom79
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Hey, a meal is a meal! Your family should be happy you want to spend your 21st with them!
My dad had passed on before then, but I would have had lunch with Mom and Mom's family and dinner with Dad and his family. Why? Well I think I had this special bond with my daddy, and a father/daughter dinner sounded more like the way to go (for MY situation).
But, you hang in there! You are doing the right thing by asking, but at the same time, if you start this now, you may be splitting birthdays for life.
What about graduation? Will they give you two ceramonies? How about a wedding or grandchildren, can you have do-overs? Nope, so your family is going to have to grow to like the idea of spending portions of their lives together for you. This is your chance to tell them to GROW UP, SUCK IT UP and come enjoy the celebration.
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gr8Dad
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The DAUGHTER'S emotions, and since it is HER birthday, those are the only emotions that MATTER.
"I'm sure I could come up with a compromise that satisfied my need to make the day special for my daughter, while not hurting my ex in the process."
But Mom is unable/unwilling to do this, so why is the response to pacify HER? Dad IS willing to do this, so we penalize HIM.
"I just don't get why you can't get that sometimes people actually do FEEL things? Get in touch with your inner estrogen (yes, you guys have some in there too, lol) and realize that sometimes people are wounded in the divorce process and it's not something than can heal overnight, or in 2 nights, or even in 6 months of nights."
I don't give a sh!t if he beat you half to death, drove you to the Mexican Border, and sold you to a drug lord for personal pleasure. Your CHILD is turning 21, and she wants both parents there, so you SWALLOW your pride and hurt, and you do what is best for your DAUGHTER. You do NOT force her to chose between the two of you, hurt and anger bedamned. And if you DO force her to do that, you get what you deserve when you are left out, and the parent you want to exclude is there.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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preemiemom
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Actually, the daughter seems TOTALLY willing to compromise and work out a solution to appease both parents, HE is unwilling to compromise, lest he get a "lesser meal".
BOTH parents here are wrong, frankly. The mother for not wanting him to be around and him for, realizing it's going to be an issue with the mother, for now making his daughter feel guilty about her workaround (having lunch with him instead).
Sooo, how's that for a compromise? They're both being sh!ts.
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The best we can do is live our lives with enlightened improvisation.
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gr8Dad
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Why is his questioning her pacifying her unreasonable Mom making her feel guilty? A "guilt trip" is only wrong if they are trying to make you feel guilty improperly. She SHOULD feel guilty for asking Dad to pacify an unreasonable Mom.
Why is it that Mom's feeling and hurt and anger are something that all should respect, but DAD's feelings are bullsh!t and HE should be understanding?
Call it a Men are from Mars/Women from Venus issue, but once again, we are asking for SPECIAL consideration for a female, simply because she is a female, and is somehow more entitled to it.
Welcome to equality...
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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BeckaLeigh
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Well, you could tell mom and her family that their problems arent your problems. You could outline that even if mom doesnt want him as a husband anymore, he will always be your dad, and as such, will be at the important events in your life. Why should Dad have to suffer because mom and her family dont want him there? They are being selfish towards you and it isnt fair. If it were me, which it isnt, I would tell them get over it for the evening or let me know how many reservations I need to drop. You are in a tough spot, kiddo, but at least you are on your way to being a responsible adult. Your parents seemed to have done a very good job. I hope things go well with you. Hugs.
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I tried being normal once. Worst five minutes of my life.
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BeckaLeigh
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While I see you point, PM, I have to agree with gr8dad on this. Mom and her family are making the D choose. It doesnt matter what dad did to mom, or mom did to dad, they are both good parents and as such, should be able to put their problems to the side for their D. I hate my X with a passion for the shyt he has put our kids through but he has always been invited to all events, for the kids' sakes. He took us up on one, once. We, Dh, x and I, had lunch with the kids at school, for parents' day. DH said he would stay out of it, let dad be there, but the kids were adamant about Dh being there. So, for their sakes, we all went and actually had fun. Why cant these people do that for their daughter???
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I tried being normal once. Worst five minutes of my life.
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BeckaLeigh
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gr8dad just put it in a nutshell for me. I dont have the nice, flowy way with words he does. He's so elegant, dont you think? JK. Seriously though, he has a point. You put your feelings on hold for your kids, because YOU are the parent, and the crap is between the parents, not the parent and kid.
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I tried being normal once. Worst five minutes of my life.
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ssmom79
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"You put your feelings on hold for your kids, because YOU are the parent, and the crap is between the parents, not the parent and kid."
Yup, this is what's best for the kids, and in a divorce and the life you lead after divorce, you should do what's best for them.
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preemiemom
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Okay.. but NEITHER parent is doing that. THe father isn't EITHER. He's just as bad as the mother for making her feel guilty about having "LUNCH" with HIM versus DINNER with her MOTHER. Jeesh... kid came up with a decent compromise... even if Mom is being a b!tch, dad isn't being much better.
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The best we can do is live our lives with enlightened improvisation.
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ssmom79
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yes, so what does a child do PM? You are right, both parents are really being a pain in the a**.
So, do they say screw you both parents, I am going out with my friends or do they risk inviting all the family and waiting to see if they eat alone?
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gr8Dad
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Because he is saying he would like to be at her dinner, after she told him she would LIKE him to be at the dinner? Because he is not offering to, chivilrously (sp?), NOT go to the dinner, because Mom is a b!tch?
Again, a double standard. If he DOES demand to be part of her life, he is an ass, and if he DOESN'T, he is a deadbeat.
The "child" is going to be TWENTY ONE. It is about time she learned, in life, that you have to make decisions. And most decisions will NOT make everyone happy. So you make the best decision possible. It STARTS here. Dad takes the backseat, cause Mom doesn't want him there. Then it's college graduation. Then it's a party to celebrate the new job, then it's a bridal shower or the wedding it's self. Pretty soon, to accomodate a b!tchy Mom, Dad barely sees her at all. And HE is the bad guy for not showing up.
BS, Mom doesn't want to see him there, she doesn't have to come. Let HER explain why her hatred for the stbx is greater than her love for her child. Hopefully she learns before SHE is alienated by her choices.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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asurvivor
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I'm with GR8dad on this one! I'll let him finish what he started because he's right on with this one.
I've seen my DH shafted sooo many times by BM that I could puke in a trash can right now. The only reason she did her crap was out of spite and hate...NOTHING LESS!
I feel for Dad in this situation! He's got a long road ahead of him if this is what BM wants her future decorated in(spite and hate).
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Patrice
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In some cases it's just not as simple as putting your feelings on hold. The breakup of a longterm marriage is a major trauma for any family and things just don't go on as if nothing happened for some of us. After some healing time, maybe, but assuming that everyone can be reasonable right away is just not reasonable. Grown up or not, we are all human.
Why is it presumed that just because Dad is willing to be at the dinner with everyone that he's the better person??? As PM said, he could be a royal creep, and totally oblivious to the pain and hurt feelings that are still being dealt with by the mother. Maybe not, maybe so.
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To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world.
Edited by Patrice (07/10/07 04:02 PM)
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BeckaLeigh
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Alll right, this girl is asking for advice, not a fight between all of us. We have different POV's, what else is new?
The dad doesnt want to be pi$$ed on , and mom has made her feelings clear, as well. If I were this girl, I would say the heck with all of them and spend the day with my sweetie and hope my parents grow up. I realize they are a married couple going through a divorce, if I remember correctly, but they are also still parents. Or do you expect their parenting feelings to disappear when she turns 21? No, you dont. Yes, mom may be hurt, dad is too, most likely. But, you say the he!! with them and do what you want. You dont let yourself be put in the position of choosing between your parents. You just dont choose. I wouldnt.
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I tried being normal once. Worst five minutes of my life.
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preemiemom
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[quote]yes, so what does a child do PM? You are right, both parents are really being a pain in the a**.
So, do they say screw you both parents, I am going out with my friends or do they risk inviting all the family and waiting to see if they eat alone? [/quote]
Me personally? Well, I'm a child who spent my entire childhood PRAYING my parents would divorce, so I'd have no problem, under the circumstances telling them both to jump in a lake til they grew up and going out with my friends instead, which would likely be infinitely more fun ;) My friends would hold my hair while I was praying to the porcelain goddess later, lol... my folks would probably just give me a lecture on overimbibing..
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The best we can do is live our lives with enlightened improvisation.
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preemiemom
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I think by her age the "child" has already made her determinations about her parents and, frankly, isn't going to be adversely affected towards one parent or the other by this.
She's 21.. presumably she's probably experienced puppy love, breakup maybe she didn't want and she can relate to the feelings her parents are going through.
So, yes she has learned about decisions, but presumably she's also learned about feelings, AND as a woman (sorry, but it IS true) she will lately relate better to BOTH her parents feelings and handle it better than EITHER of them since she's really the only OBJECTIVE person looking at the situation.
Even us, on this board and answering her question, look at it through our own perceptions.. she doesn't have that handicap.
Look at your position.. you've assumed HATRED on the part of the mother. How do you know it isn't HURT? And no, parenting doesn't stop at 21; however, being a parent doesn't stop one from being HUMAN either.. unless that phenomenon is strictly reserved to you (losing humanity). this isn't a child who is forming, she's a grown woman.. crying potential PAS over a freakin' birthday dinner is just preposterous beyond all reason.
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The best we can do is live our lives with enlightened improvisation.
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Patrice
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I agree, go out with the boyfriend.
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To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world.
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LMVO23
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Wow guys, I didn't know everyone had that much to say about my situation! I really appreciate all of your support.
To set a few things straight...
Neither parent is to "blame" for the divorce because neither one did anything as bad as a few of you have so blatantly assumed. Communication between them just basically stopped once I left for school (they had me 9 months after they were married so they were never really alone, it was always about me). Mom says that she fell out of love with dad years ago but never had the courage to do anything about it...and then it all comes out at once, no possibility for reconciliation because it really was too far gone. I wonder what would have happened if she had only told him her feelings on the matter a few years ago...
Anyways, I don't think it's fair that my parents are doing this to me, and I know that they mean no harm, but it really is stressing me out more than they realize. My boyfriend and I are going "home" this weekend to help my mom move out (she doesn't want to keep the house, dad does)...so I'm going to talk to her then about this issue again. Ideally I'd like for both parents to be there and for them to just put their differences aside for 2 hours...hopefully I can talk some sense into her. If not then I'll have a nice romantic dinner with my one and only, and I'm sure that both parents will be sorry they missed out, but you guys have helped me see that it's not my problem at all.
Thanks again, your advice has taken a huge weight off my shoulders.
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LMVO23
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So I talked to my mother about this yesterday...it didn't go over too well. She told me that the wounds were too fresh, that she hasn't told me half of what has been going on, and that she absolutely cannot sit at the same table with "that man" for an hour regardless of how much I told her it was for me. She told me that I would be better off just staying in Pensacola instead of going home so I wouldn't have to choose although she would be sad if that were to happen. The conversation ended with her crying and me feeling like a big, royal pile of crap. Thanks mom.
I don't think this is fair. Like I said, I'm going home today so I'll talk to my dad and see if we can work something out since he seems to be the one who is willing to talk about it. I still don't see why lunch with dad and dinner with mom is that big of a deal, there are plenty of nice places in Orlando that serve nice lunches and this really seems to be my only option short of not spending my birthday with either one.
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ssmom79
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I'm sorry things didn't go well with you mom. Sometimes being the grown up is hard, even for the grown ups.
It's not fair, but life isn't fair. The sooner you stop looking for it to be fair, the better.
It's good that you are choosing to be the bigger person here and try to appease both parents. Maybe you could push the lunch idea to dad, and you two will work out something.
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GreatMomma
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"It's only been 6 months, they still co-habitate, we have NOOOO idea what the reason for the split is (even the OP said she was floored, had an idllyic childhood, no indications of problems). Did he cheat? Does he have a [color:green] [/color] girlfriend currently? We don't know ANY of this. For all we know he's done something horrible to the mother and why should SHE be forced to play happy family if he is the one who destroyed it through his own actions? (for argument's sake)."
Although I agree it's hard to turn on & off your feelings, you have to for the sake of your children. My ex left me (after 18 years together, after I was in the hospital for an extended time AND had a newborn & another young child. I turned my feelings of anger off immediately FOR THE KIDS SAKE. They are flourishing. My husband now - his ex hasn't YET turned her feelings off (she had older kids, he DIDN'T have an affair as my ex did, she wasn't recently ill etc.) and she's STILL hostile & bitter, vindictive towards us & puts the kids in the middle. It's a personality trait & weakness I think & those who are stronger & think of our kids FIRST put the kids FIRST above our anger & hurt.
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BeckaLeigh
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If you want to do dinnre with mom and lunch with dad, do it. If YOU are willing to put your wants aside because of their differences, I can see they truly raised a good kids. Good luck to you. Do what you can, or want, and either way, have a great 21st. Throw one in for me. I couldnt celebrate my 21st cuz I was breastfeeding. LOL.
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I tried being normal once. Worst five minutes of my life.
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Redlegg
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She is no longer hungry :) You will do what feels right for you. I think the rite of passage just got bigger because Mom has forced you to make certain decisions and it sounds unfair no matter what you do. I guess if Mom's family no longer wants anything to do with Dad, then they have made their choice clear. Right now there is a him or us attitude and if you choose us, then they will feel thats how it will always be, so whatever you choose, make sure both sides know its your choice, not theirs and you will keep both your parents in your life, neither one being more important than the other, but both always important to you.
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Karen1
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SOmething that teh OP posted that Mom said hit home to me. Something along the lines of ... Mom has not told OP half of what is going on.
1. Mom should not be telling OP what is going on, unless OP asks. When the child is an adult, it does change things.
2. It could be that Dad is being an ass during the divorce process, dragging things out etc. Many of us have been through that and it does make you angry, plus it often adds unnecessary $$$ in attorney fees. Made me angry, but unless my son asked for specific details, he was not told any of the particulars of our settlement.
3. Both parents need to suck it up and be there. Whoever is telling OP that aunts, uncles etc. do nto want to be around Dad should keep that to themselves.
Bit of history: Mine was a long term marriage of 30 years. EX left, I did nto want the divorce. There was an OW involved. Had been going through the legal process for 3 years at teh time of our sons wedding. We had signed a settlement agreement a month before the wedding, final hearing set for the week following the wedding.
Son was getting married.. our divorce not final. A few months prior to the wedding my son and d-i-l advised me they were going to tell his Dad he was invited but the OW was not. I asked son to think about it for a while before he said anything. I told son my reasoning was that EX may say if OW not welcome then he would not be there. I also told him I did not want any of us to look back on his wedding day with any regrets. Did I want OW there... NO. Yet I told my son that I could handle OW being there. We really can do anything for our kids.
4 days before the wedding I received paperwork from the court... EX had fired his attorney, gotten a new one and filed to have our signed settlement set aside. Unless EX told our son, he is not aware of this to this day. Other than our final hearing... (it went forth with our signed settlement and EX had to pay my additional attorney fees)... we have not had to be around each other. However, if my son wanted us both at his birthday dinner... I would nto place any stipulations on my being there.
When my son and d-i-l have children... I plan on being at the hospital for their birth, at baby showers, birthday parties, whatever I am invited to. If EX cannot be around me then he will lose out. IMO he needs to grow a pair and tell his insecure OW that it is his choice on what he attends and not hers. We share a son and thus we share certain family events. I have heard OW does not want him out of her sight. A relationship started and carried out in secrecy due to one person being married...well I suppose that would foster a sense of distrust.
My vote is for Mom getting lunch. If as G8 says, lunch is a lesser meal, then let Mom get that as she is the once refusing to be together for sake of child.
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"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened".
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LMVO23
recently joined
Reged: 07/09/07
Posts: 5
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So my 21st birthday came and went, and I really have nothing to complain about because it went pretty well.
I went out at midnight with a few friends, my bf, and mom (dad was working) and had a glass of wine (riesling, if you were wondering--it was fantastic). The next morning my bf and I went to my dad's to cook lunch and spend a few hours with him. About 3pm we headed to our family beach condo for some sun and a delicious grouper dinner prepared by my aunt, uncle, and mom. Walked on the beach that night with my boyfriend and some more riesling...I had very nice time. Plus I got quite a bit of money for my birthday which will help buffer the cost of textbooks for this semester. Sigh.
It was a great birthday and I have discovered the beautiful world of wine (and I'm on my way into adulthood)!
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BeckaLeigh
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/08/05
Posts: 6875
Loc: Texas
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I am glad it all went smoothly for you guys. I wondered if it would. Hope things continue to go all right for you as pertaining to your parents.
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I tried being normal once. Worst five minutes of my life.
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