accesskas
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Reged: 08/22/05
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Loc: Missouri
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I just received the form 14 that was used to determine the amount my husband pays in child support when he and his wife divorced in 2000. There was a amount that was included in monthly support for "child care related expenses" based on the fact that my stepson was 3 years old and his mom worked part time. However he is in school now, and 10 years old and she no longer needs child care for him, can this amount be adjusted now with a modification?
Thanks
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1966Gal
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Probably, but make sure the check with your state's CS calculator first.
Unless I'm mistaken, you are saying that your H's CS hasn't been modified in SEVEN years?? If his income has increased significantly in that time, your CS could actually go UP if you pursue a modification.
So run the numbers through the calculator first, before you decide if you want to pursue this or not.
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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.
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cincsu
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usually when you want to modify one thing they modify the whole thing...especially if it has been 7 years. and as 1966gal said you may just be better off leaving well enough alone. if she hasn't requested a modification in 7 years you could still end up paying more.
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wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
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Sherron
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Also, please remember that just because he doesn't need "child care" for most of the day, doesn't mean he doesn't attend an after school program (or before care, pending mom's hours) until mom gets off from work. 10 yrs old is still kind of little to be left on your own, it would depend on the neighborhood, how far to walk home, etc. IRS code allows child care expenses for deduction purposes up until the child is 12, so that would be a good idea as to when you can realistically expect child care expenses to stop.
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JennyLynn
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They should pursue it even more so if his pay has increased significantly. After this long, I'd say it's time to get it changed. I'm sure both parents' income have changed.
In my state, the amount paid for child care makes a huge difference in the amount of support paid.
If it's being cut in half, it will cut half of XH's obligation for daycare, leaving his CS obligation much less.
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1966Gal
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I'll repeat what I said. Poster should run the numbers through her state's CS calculator BEFORE deciding if she wants to pursue this or not.
She also needs to make sure the child is no longer in any kind of child care. As another poster said, he may be going to afterschool care of some sort.
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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.
Edited by 1966Gal (04/08/08 03:25 PM)
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JennyLynn
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Thanks for repeating, I couldn't read it the first time. ;)
Access, what state are you in?
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Cinder2
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I would say that your child support would almost certainly go up if it was recalculated after seven years.... Use the Missouri calculator to check before you open up that can of worms.
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gr8Dad
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If child was home all day, and Mom was working part time, now that child is in school all day, there is no reason Mom needs to work part time, and if she IS working part time, there is no need for child care. Mom can work FULL time, so child support, minus the full time child care, with Mom's FULL TIME income either added in or imputed, could cause it to decrease, even if Dad's income went up.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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almostheaven
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Some states even increase support for school-aged children as they figure they cost more. So since support was figured before the child was in school, it could go up some just based on that.
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Char Fox
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almostheaven
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and whether or not they use both incomes in determining CS.
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Char Fox
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Cinder2
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They're in Missouri and they do count both incomes.
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accesskas
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Reged: 08/22/05
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Loc: Missouri
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yes I am in missouri and mom's income has increased by about 900.00 a month and my husband's has only increased about 347.00 more a month. Also my stepson does not have any after school program, his mom has him stay by himself for 2 hours until his dad comes and picks him up on the days that my husband has visitation, which is almost always the days that she works, the other days she has him after school.
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accesskas
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Loc: Missouri
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and up until now it hasn't been modified because my husband's ex has not had a stable job, but she has been at this job for over a year so we feel safe in trying to do something now, if it won't end up costing us more.
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Cinder2
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Okay, doing some math here..... $347 divided by 160 hours a month = your husband's income has only gone up $2.16 an hour in seven years?!?!!?
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Cassie23
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That is a possibility- my Mom gets a raise of about $.35 more an hour a year.
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hippie1981
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A friend of mine worked at a bank and would only receive between a $.10 and $.25 raise every year. After 5 years, she got the heck out of there.
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1966Gal
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Again, run the numbers in Miss. CS calculator and see what you come up with. You'll never know until you run the numbers.
CS is pretty cut & dry in most states.
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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.
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DeeCan
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Ditto 1966Gal. Use the calculator. DON'T do anything until you do. Chances are, even with the increase in her wages, etc., the support is going to increase and you would be better off to just keep quiet.
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Don't drink and park, accidents cause people.
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JennyLynn
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<<the support is going to increase and you would be better off to just keep quiet. >>
Grrr I Just do NOT get that. When I posted on the SF board regarding MY raise, reporting it to CSE which would cause XH's child support to go DOWN, I was told to do the right thing, and I did do the right thing, a modification will start soon and his CS will be lowered roughly $150/month at least.
I say DO the right thing. This is your child. Don't keep quiet - if CS is supposed to be increased/decreased, it needs to be.
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092895
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Repeat: Run the numbers. It is not just based on one individuals pay. A figure is arrived at and based on the combined income, each parent pays a percent of income for the CS amount. She may be making more, but it doesn't mean you will be paying less if you have had any kind of increase. The total amount of support goes up and the percentage for each parent may change, but that doesn't mean you will pay less.
Hope that makes sense and also do the right thing. It is for the child.
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Cassie23
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JL--- As I recall most of the posters told you not to bother considering the issues you have had with him as of late.
You decided to do the 'right thing'--- I think the 'right thing' varies in cases of CS.
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accesskas
enthusiast
Reged: 08/22/05
Posts: 209
Loc: Missouri
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My husband actually had paid more than he should have, when they figured the CS, he had worked a lot of overtime that year and for the next several years he didn't make near that much and gradually over time he started making with raises and everything the actual amount that was figured in child support, and now after 7 years it is just a bit more, that's why it doesn't seem like there was much of an increase of income. I have a question... everyone says to run the calculator. What calculator??? I have the missouri form 14 but it is CONFUSING... anyone know a better website or does anyone know how to figure it out in a way that could help me?
I agree about doing what is right for the child, it's just hard when she recieves child support from 2 other fathers not including my husband, and with child support almost brings more home than my husband and we have two other children, but I know I can't think about that, you have to think about what is best for the child, but i am thinking of my two boys too. Honestly we can't afford to pay anymore than we are now.... since i don't know any of you personally i will share this with you. My husband pays 644.00 a month for one child. It's extremely difficult on us with two other children to try and support them, so it's hard to know what the right thing is when it comes to CS modification.
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accesskas
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Reged: 08/22/05
Posts: 209
Loc: Missouri
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Another question, i found some child support calculators, but they don't have anything but income amounts, they don't have the credit for the amount of time spent with non-custodial parent, and that appears in the MO form 14.
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JennyLynn
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Cassie - I specifically remember SEVERAL people telling me to do the "right thing" (made a huge 10 page fuss over it, missing the point that I had ALREADY told my caseworker about my increase in income).
When so many things have changed - I can't sleep at night NOT doing the right thing. Not sure how anyone can.
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accesskas
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Reged: 08/22/05
Posts: 209
Loc: Missouri
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well we can set our mind at ease, we are actually paying too much. I just re-did the worksheet and we are overpaying by about 20.00 a month. The reduction would not be there if she was still paying childcare, but since she isn't we are paying too much. She hasn't paid for childcare for a year or two now.
However we are not going to modify for simply 20.00. Yes it adds up, but it will just cause her to get upset and more chaos, so we will most likely leave it as it is. Thanks for all your input, and the worksheet wasn't as hard as I thought it was, but if i hadn't had their old one to compare I would have been in trouble.
For those of you who followed my other post a week or so ago, turns out my husband was given a credit for summer time, so maybe it has evened out with what we have overpaid and what she has had to pay when my husband was supposed to have summer visitation. :-) By the way we are taking summer visitation this year! ;-)
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1966Gal
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Cool. I wouldn't file for a reduction either. My H was also overpaying, but he didn't mind. I really gave him peace of mind...whenever his ex started threatening to have CS reviewed, he knew he was in the clear. Whenever she started asking for the moon, he'd send her the current worksheet/CS calculator and would say "here...as you can see, I'm over paying you by $90 a month...so go ahead and use that extra towards 'xyz.'"
When they see the worksheets and see that you are actually overpaying it really shuts them up quick and they can't use the threat of court to get you to comply with their every whim.
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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.
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DeeCan
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JL, I'm just going to tell ya like this:
I am a BM and a SM. With DH's CS, we run the numbers before doing anything. If there is an increase, we keep it to ourselves. BM is just as capable of running the numbers and asking for increase. We're not going to hand it to her on a silver platter. We do plenty for SS outside of the CS we pay anyway.
As a BM, I feel the same way. If I run the numbers, it is MY responsiblity to ask for the increase. I don't expect exH to notify me that I'm entitled to one or voluntarily doing it.
To me, that's part of the divorce game. IMO, it's doesn't make my xH a bad guy because he doesn't tell and it doesn't make my DH a meanie because he don't do the legwork for his exW.
There is an old saying that especially applies to divorce: No Good Deed Goes Unpunished.
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Don't drink and park, accidents cause people.
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accesskas
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Reged: 08/22/05
Posts: 209
Loc: Missouri
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i agree, next time she tries to get my husband to pay for something he doesn't have too, we can know this in the back of our minds in case she tried to do that.
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accesskas
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Reged: 08/22/05
Posts: 209
Loc: Missouri
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I agree deecan, it isn't our responsiblity to do things for her, she is an adult and can easily check herself. It took me about 20 minutes, and she could do the same thing.
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JennyLynn
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Dee - I understand your position, in my situation, that's just not how I look at it. I wouldn't want X to pay more than he is supposed to be paying, and I wouldn't want to accept more than I'm supposed to be accepting.
X and I are legally obligated to let DHS know if there has been any type of change in income or daycare or insurance that would cause CS to increase/decrease by 10%. It has, therefor I have reported it. I feel THAT is the right thing, in my situation, to do.
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Cinder2
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Loc: Southern California
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You should use the state worksheet to calculate and not the online calculators (unless it a calculator from the state). The judge is going to use the state worksheet.
It can be found at:
http://www.courts.mo.gov/sup/index.nsf/d45a7635d4bfdb8f8625662000632638/64c9d1dfef67046e86256fb70073df81?OpenDocument
Cinder
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accesskas
enthusiast
Reged: 08/22/05
Posts: 209
Loc: Missouri
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oh jennylynn it would work out for so many other divorced couples if BOTH parties had the same attitude, but unforunately in most cases that just isn't how they think. At least in my case, my husband's ex could care less if she is getting more than she is supposed to.
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JennyLynn
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Yeah, it's unfortunate that that's the way it is access. I probably shouldn't care if his CS is more than it's supposed to be - he owes me $12K and is about to go to court...AGAIN...for contempt charges b/c of the debt. I just don't feel right making him owe more than he should owe though, ya know?
He doesn't even pay 25% of what he's CO'd to pay anyway...so if CS goes down it's not going to make much of a difference in what I'm not receiving anyway! :)
Edited by JennyLynn (04/09/08 10:54 AM)
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DeeCan
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That is very honest of you. And, technically, we're all supposed to do the same thing. There is pretty much an "understanding" between me and my xH that this is how it will be. And, for example, right now he does quite a bit above and beyond his CS for DS, he visits him regularly, etc.; and he recently got a significant raise. I don't want the state telling him to pay more - he does more than he has to (by CO, not morally, of course) and what he does is more vaulable to DS (and me) than any CS dollars. If things change, I can rethink it THEN react on MY/OUR terms.
And with DH's exW....well...DH could hand her every dollar he makes and it wouldn't be good enough. So, since we do a lot of things for SS "on the side," if she wants it, she can do the work to get it. After all, she's willing to do the work to create a gap between SS and DH. So we know she has the energy to. lol
Everyone, however, has to do what works for them. And if you're happy with the way it is for you, then don't let any of us influence you. Of course, I'll be honest, if he's that far behind in CS, I'd be %$#@! before I cut him any slack. lol
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Don't drink and park, accidents cause people.
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JennyLynn
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LOL yeah I know...well about $6500 of it is in child support, the rest is for other debt he owes me (on a car, on past health insurance for DS, medical, etc).
He rarely sees DS, doesn't exercise most of his visitation, is very uninvolved in his life, never calls to talk to him or see how he's doing...NOTHING. I know I should be a lot harder on him than I am, I guess I just don't like dealing with it.
I am hard on him however in the fact that last year I filed contempt, and now DHS has filed contempt again. He's facing losing his license and/or going to jail. Neither options do I want to happen, but then again he's the only person responsible for his choices.
Edited by JennyLynn (04/09/08 11:56 AM)
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Sherron
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"For those of you who followed my other post a week or so ago, turns out my husband was given a credit for summer time, so maybe it has evened out with what we have overpaid and what she has had to pay when my husband was supposed to have summer visitation. :-)"
He's been overpaying for 1 yr or 2 at the rate of $20 per month. At a full 2 years, he's overpaid 24x$20, or $480. I have a feeling she's spent more than $480 on the 6 weeks per summer childcare over the years your dh didn't take.
" By the way we are taking summer visitation this year! ;-)"
THAT'S GREAT!!
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Cassie23
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I may have a different way of looking at it too...in NY DH's CS would NEVER decrease if BM makes more $$$ even though it's a dual income state. It's just how NYS CS works- DH makes more $$ CS goes up, BM does and it doesn't ALTHOUGH it would lead to a HIGHER combined income in which the courts MAY deviate from the guidelines. Last order DH's income was cut off at $80k instead of the $90 plus he was making- so that does help.
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accesskas
enthusiast
Reged: 08/22/05
Posts: 209
Loc: Missouri
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ya you might be right, but my husband kept him a lot when she was having man problems, one time she dropped him off and said "i need you to keep him and i don't know for how long", i think we kept him for over a week, but there have been many things like that over the years, but it probably doesn't still really even out. Oh well all we can do is be the best people and make the best decisions we can now knowing what we know. :-) I have a feeling if my husband had known about the credit given him he would have done things alot differently.
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Cassie23
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JL here's the link to you asking about doing a modification---
http://www.divorcesource.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=372462&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
I think there were like 2 or 3 people who said you should, everyone else told you to drop it.
Which isn't the norm for this site, I think it has to do with your current situation.
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ssmom79
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We have this issue with BM.
When they divorced, child care was $540 per month. Now it is $180 per month. And like 1966Gal said, when we recalculated the numbers based on EOW (we have 50/50 but it's only verbal) his support only dropped by $50/a month. HARDLY a reason to start a CS war or waste money on an attorney.
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Sherron
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"Oh well all we can do is be the best people and make the best decisions we can now knowing what we know. :-) "
Bingo! And it looks like y'all are well on your way, considering the change of mind on the extended parenting time over the summer. It may be awkward at first to have him there so much, if you're not used to it, so give it a little time. And don't feel like you have to "entertain" the child constantly, a lot of ncp's fall into that little trap, and then the child comes to expect it and will be disappointed when there isn't something "going on" all the time... and, it's hard on the pocket book!!
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JennyLynn
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Thanks Cassie - I suppose I remembered the "do it's" more than the "don't do it's".
And you're right - I think normally the overall answer would have been "do it", but given the circumstances some people said not to.
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marlite
recently joined
Reged: 04/07/08
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I thought I posted this last night, but now I don't see it... anyway
this does kind of fall along with the other posts recommendations of "check the numbers, see if it's worth it - decide what you think is right"
Also though, when considering this - check your orders thouroughly and the state laws on wether child "care expenses" are figured independent of child "support".
In our state, the child care costs are figured on the worksheet with support, but are done so separately (support obligation figured first, and then child care obligation added on to make a total obligation). But then that total is paid to the state child support office.
Also, our judge has stated that child "care" costs can (and will) change when the cost itself changes from what is currently ordered and will do so independently of child support... but to change the support obligation the percentage increase/decrease given in the state support laws will be used to see if a change can be made for child SUPPORT only. (Meaning, if your laws are the same... unless the two parents' incomes changed enough to make a significant change in support alone - it may be worth it to ask to modify JUST the child care cost??? But undoubtedly if you are asking for this decrease, mom will ask for a review on support to try to recoup some of the money she figures would not be coming to her due to this change.
(not sure if anyone else mentioned this - but also look to see if your state does automatic reviews every so many years - some do some don't - so IF yours does and you have somehow flown under the radar - asking for this child care expense would probably stir one up. )
Just a few more tips to think about - hope it helps.
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Cassie23
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;) I remember it because was surprised more didn't suggest doing the 'right thing', but given your situation I did understand that.
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accesskas
enthusiast
Reged: 08/22/05
Posts: 209
Loc: Missouri
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sherron i agree about not entertaining him. The hardest part is i will be the one taking care of him for almost the entire day. My husband works from 6am-6pm, so that is what makes it more hard. I am going from having a 3 and 1 year old to also having a 10 year old. It will be an adjustment.
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Relayer
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Run the calculator and if he is paying too much, ask for the reduction. If not, keep your mouth shut..LOL..
Actually, regardless of these calculators or whatever, a judge can order anything he wants..above..below..the guidelines..depends on the situation..
If the calc does bring it down and you get a reduction, bank the $$ for the child. You might need it for the kid later on anyway and if not, it's a nice addition to the college fund..
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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