beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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I need help understanding something here.
CO states NCP has to pay $475/month for daycare.
However in the months of January, April, July, September and December, there are technically 5 weeks instead of 4 weeks which is what the $475 was based on.
NCP thinks that they should not have to pay extra for that extra week in the month.
Why is it CP responsibility to cover the entire week. This would bring CP's extra pay for daycare to $310.00 for the month.
Note: CP already pays over $100 a month extra because NCP thinks CP put the child in the most expensive daycare (not true).
Who should pay for the extra week of care in those months?
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MTmom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/07
Posts: 2711
Loc: MT
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if the order says $475, NCP must pay $475 - no more no less.
Does the order say $475?
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Relayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 9506
Loc: Moorglade Mover
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[quote]if the order says $475, NCP must pay $475 - no more no less.
Does the order say $475? [/quote]
Agree. The CO should have been per week rather than month.
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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I cannot believe how royally screwed I got in that department. Our lawyers should have known to make it per week rather than month.
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1004SRS
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Your lawyer didn't do his/her job. Plus, you should have aksed mor questions before you signed.
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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Yes, I totally agree.
It still blows me away how NCP thinks that even remotely fair. But I guess lifes not fair and I just have to deal with it.
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MTmom
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how many children do you have in daycare? what is the weekly charge per child? how much child support do yu receive in addition to day care expenses?
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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[quote]how many children do you have in daycare? what is the weekly charge per child? how much child support do yu receive in addition to day care expenses? [/quote]
One child in daycare. Cost is $252/week.
I receive $50 a month in addition to the $475.
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Cinder2
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Posts: 4361
Loc: Southern California
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Usually it is taken into account that there are 52 weeks in the year, then the total is divided by 12 to get a monthly amount. I can't imagine your lawyer would not know this.
Cinder
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Cinder2
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Loc: Southern California
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Dear Beanstalk,
I read in your other post that all of your other support payments are monthly, (i.e. the NCP pays you $200 in child support a month and you pay the NCP $150 a month in travel expenses) You do realize that if you change the court order to reflect what you consider to be unfair that all of the rest of it would need to be changed as well? You currently pay the NCP $150 monthly for travel expenses.... shouldn't you be paying more in the months that have five weeks? Do you see what I mean?
Cinder
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Melody
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Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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that your orders were poorly drafted to not figure in this calendar problem. As they are written, the daycare responsibility of the NCP is limited to $475 per month. The fact that your daycare charges are incurred weekly and not monthly is of no relevance here. In order to correct the situation, you would have to return to court and have the order modified to a weekly amount. The cost of this would likely outweigh the amount you would actually save.
why not change daycares to save money then?
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Redlegg
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Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26804
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He pays what, 47/48 % of the 4 week daycare cost, add in the extra weeks and he should give you about 600 more a year or 50.00 a month, talk to him and see how he feels, he may just do it. But if he doesn't, it is the court order, so I guess you would have to go to court over the 50.00 a month.
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Avaya
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Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 9824
Loc: Arkansas
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You pay 310 and NCP pays 475 (plus CS I'm assuming)? Yeah, i can see the unfairness of the person who wanted custody of the child to have to pay the bills. @@@@
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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JennyLynn
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Where do you get that from Avaya? $252 x 52 weeks / 12 months is an average of $1,092 per month in daycare ALONE. If dad is paying $475 and $50 in child support, I'd hardly see that as NCP paying the bills. Do the math. Basically what he is paying for is ALMOST 50% of daycare if you add in the whopping $50/month for CS.
Edited by JennyLynn (04/23/08 08:55 AM)
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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[quote]You pay 310 and NCP pays 475 (plus CS I'm assuming)? Yeah, i can see the unfairness of the person who wanted custody of the child to have to pay the bills. @@@@ [/quote]
You obviously didn't read the post correctly. I stated that I pay an additional $310 per month for the months that have 5 weeks in them. So for those months I pay a total of $785.00 compared to NCP's total of $475. And for the rest of the months I pay between $60 - $100 extra because NCP put a cap on the daycare costs.
Before you fly off the handle, read the post correctly please.
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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[quote] You currently pay the NCP $150 monthly for travel expenses.... shouldn't you be paying more in the months that have five weeks? Do you see what I mean?
Cinder [/quote]
Hi Cinder, yes you are correct, my lawyer should have known that there are 52 weeks in the year. I had a HORRIBLE lawyer and am paying for it dearly now. I put my trust in someone that I shouldn't have.
As far as the $150 a month, I sort of see what you are saying, but NCP doesn't come out every week.
Also, NCP didn't spend $150 worth of travel expenses in the month of February, but had me pay back $150. ???I didn't get the receipts until just last week.
But all in all, I think that it would cost me more to get my $126 dollars for the extra week ($252/2) if I took NCP back to court to get the order changed.
I guess I was 'hoping' that NCP would do the right thing. Ahem Ahem.
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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[quote]why not change daycares to save money then? [/quote]
This is a touchy subject for me. The daycare that we had our daughter in in IL was very cheap. $200 a month. And let me tell you that you get what you pay for. This place was horrible. I can't tell you how many times that I came to pick her up and she was in her crib screaming her head off with no one paying any attention to her needs - with a soiled diaper. Also, they did not have any 'structure'. I could go on and on about this place. Bottom line is that I will never ever again compromise my childs well being to save a few dollars. That place had done damage to her - to the point that she hated other kids coming up to her (that really just wanted to play) because the old place she was bitten several times by other kids and it happened constantly.
This new place is wonderful. In a short amount of time being there, she was completely different. She has learned so much from the program they have in place.
So again, it isn't that simple to just change daycares. I'd rather have my daughter have the care that I think she deserves when I'm at work - leaving her there for 50 hours a week.
I'll just cut back expenses elsewhere somehow.
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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[quote]in the extra weeks and he should give you about 600 more a year or 50.00 a month, talk to him and see how he feels, he may just do it. But if he doesn't, it is the court order, so I guess you would have to go to court over the 50.00 a month. [/quote]
I think the percentages are a little off, but I see your point. I did ask NCP to pay me half the cost of the week and the answer was 'no, not going to happen'.
I'll just pay the additional $310 per month.
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JennyLynn
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I do agree with you regarding the daycare...you get what you pay for. The cheapest is NOT usually the best, BTDT!
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Stirling
enthusiast
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 327
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The NCP is only required to $475 a month because that is what both you and he agreed to when negotiating the issue. You had legal representation and no one twisted your arm to agree to this amount. It's unfortunate that you now feel that YOU made a bad deal, but that doesn't change the fact that you agreed to $475 a month, and entered into this a greement with your ex in good faith.
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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Uh, no sh_t. I admitted to not making a wise decision with the CO and that I'll just pay the extra money. And that I had crappy legal representation.
And why does everyone think NCP is a he???
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JennyLynn
Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posts: 31656
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It's natural to assume :). I keep forgetting you're the man.
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cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
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my DH had this same issue. BM wrote in her papers she paid $600 per month. the judge ordered DH to pay "his 50% or $300 per month directly to the provider" the provider wrote asking for more money, BM changed daycares to a more expensive daycare. DH continued to pay his $300 per month. when BM complained in front of the judge the judge told her she wasn't understanding the CO and that my DH was following the order. so, the NCP does what the CO says....exactly. if you wanted it different you should have written it different.
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wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
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Cinder2
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Posts: 4361
Loc: Southern California
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[quote]And why does everyone think NCP is a he??? [/quote]
Probably because you keep referring to him/her as "the NCP" instead of calling him/her "my ex-wife" or "my ex husband". We have no way of knowing what sex either one of you are so far.
Cinder
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Avaya
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Because you wont say that it's not.
And...
My post above was BEFORE I read the clarification about how much daycare is per week.......
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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Does it really matter what sex is NCP or CP? Gender shouldn't make a differnce at all. I do appreciate your feedback Cinder.
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Relayer
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And what do you pay him that enables him to go to work every day in order to produce income to provide support for the child?
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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Avaya - first post CLEARLY states the $310 is an ADDITIONAL expense.
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Avaya
Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posts: 9824
Loc: Arkansas
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No, gender doesn't matter, but everytime someone refers to NCP as a him, you pop off with 'why do you assume NCP is a him?'. EVERY thread.
NCP is a pilot. Are there women pilots? I'm sure there are, but rare. So IMO, since it's rare, I'd sort of think that those who were willing to enter a field that's not typical for their gender, well I'd expect them to have a little character with their ambition; and along with that character, I'd expect that they'd not yank a CP around like this one does you. So I think NCP is a man because he probably wouldn't have to work as hard in that field as a woman would and therefore might not have as much character and would fit more with the attributes you claim this particular NCP has.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
Edited by Avaya (04/23/08 11:28 AM)
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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I don't really understand your question. All I know is that NCP took a job AFTER the birth of our daughter, that made the pay go from 80K a year to 18K a year. I don't see how that was in the best interest of the child.
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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I've only done it twice Avaya. Again, gender shouldn't make a difference, but it's funny how everyone assumed that the NCP was a male.
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Avaya
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Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 9824
Loc: Arkansas
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Bonehead - I assumed the 'additional' was In ADDITION to the $475 that the NCP was paying. You didn't say you were matching that amount and THEN paying another 310. Where I live $475 for one kid for one month is about right. $1260 is Unheard of.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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Avaya
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 9824
Loc: Arkansas
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Well, now I'm convinced he is. No man would even care to nitpick posts like you do.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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JennyLynn
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No it shouldn't make a difference - but YOU seem to be the one making an issue out of it.
More often than not - NCP's are men, sucks - but it's just the way it is. Therefor when you refuse to clarify then nitpick when people don't assume correctly...it just makes it annoying. You're the one making an issue out of it.
Regardless of NCP being male or female - NO, it doesn't make a difference.
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JennyLynn
Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posts: 31656
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<<Bonehead...>>
Now now Avaya. That's not very Christian-like of you...
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Relayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 9506
Loc: Moorglade Mover
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[quote]I don't really understand your question. All I know is that NCP took a job AFTER the birth of our daughter, that made the pay go from 80K a year to 18K a year. I don't see how that was in the best interest of the child. [/quote]
His contribution to day care enables you to earn money for your share to support your child. What contribtion do you make to him that would enable him to earn money to also make his contribution?
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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Actually there are A LOT of female pilots, it's not as rare as YOU think.
Again, gender should not make a difference.
this is clearly a case of me getting totally screwed over and it's my own fault. I have no one to blame but me (and sort of my lawyer - I was paying him to protect me). Gender doesn't have anything to do with it.
All I know is that I'm doing the best that I can with what I've got to work with. I didn't take less pay after a child was born fully knowing kids are pretty darn expensive. I sacrificed everything. I don't go out but once every few months. I barely eat dinner because I usually can't afford it nor have the time. I buy my clothes at Goodwill. Etc. Because that's what parents do when they have a child. It isn't about 'you' anymore, it's about them until they don't need you anymore or as much.
Thanks for all of your help (all posters).
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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We both contribute. One contributes financially more than the other because one makes way less than what they were making at time of birth. I thought it should be equal, but it isn't. But I guess I'm getting 'something' because there are a lot of single parents that don't even get that - male or female.
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JennyLynn
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At least you're receiving $500 to begin with...she isn't shorting you MUCH. A lot of NCP's don't even do THAT!
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JennyLynn
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Unfortunately it's NEVER equal. You did get screwed as she is making much less than she should be - have you tried having her income imputed at her past wages? How long was she making the higher amount?
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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Can you add up $310 by 5 months out of the year? Sure on a monthly basis it doesn't seem like I'm being shorted MUCH, but do the math, it adds up.
Well if NCP is taking me back to court like she has threatened, then I'll have her income imputed.
She had been making the higher amount for roughly 8 years prior.
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JennyLynn
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But that's the thing - it's NOT going to be equal. Did she make more than you when she was making more?
I agree you should have it imputed if she takes you to court, what's she wanting to take you to court over?
I'm just saying...you can't really gripe if you're not doing anything about it, have her income imputed, or at least try.
How long has she been making the less amount?
Sure $310 x's 5 is a lot...imagine though if it were the %810x's 5.
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Relayer
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Money is money and all relative.
Still, its hard to have income imputed since (if I remember correctly) her incomes has been lower for some time.
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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JennyLynn
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That's why I was wondering how long it had been since she was making more...the smart thing would have been to have her income imputed at the very beginning.
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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Yes, about 20K more than me.
Because I won't allow visits in my house.
Less amount has been less than a year. There were 3 months were the income was zero.
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beanstalk
newbie
Reged: 04/11/08
Posts: 41
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Yeah, my lawyer should have done his job and I should have been smarter and asked more questions.
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Relayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posts: 9506
Loc: Moorglade Mover
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Going forward, have all money issues handled weekly or at least bi-weekly. Lesson learned.
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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Avaya
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A pilot that makes 18k per year? Are you sure?
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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1004SRS
Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posts: 5044
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Perhaps one of the small regional carriers. THey make a pittance.
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Relayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posts: 9506
Loc: Moorglade Mover
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[quote]Perhaps one of the small regional carriers. THey make a pittance. [/quote]
I wouldnt even fly with a pilot who makes twice that..yikes...
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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JennyLynn
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Commercial pilots really don't make that much money. I'd think it was more than $18K though...my boss's private pilot said he made in the mid $20K's when he was a commercial pilot.
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Avaya
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Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 9824
Loc: Arkansas
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I tried to find where I read that the NCP went from 80k before to 18k now. I don't see it, but I KNOW I read that...... Honestly, if they work full time, I am sure they make more than that. Heck you can work at Mcdonalds and make almost that much in a year.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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Relayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 9506
Loc: Moorglade Mover
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[quote]I tried to find where I read that the NCP went from 80k before to 18k now. I don't see it, but I KNOW I read that...... Honestly, if they work full time, I am sure they make more than that. Heck you can work at Mcdonalds and make almost that much in a year. [/quote]
And better "food"
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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1004SRS
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/11/06
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I read an article from the Motley Fool about Airline salaries. An entry level regional/commuter entry job pays between 15 and 20K a year. This is a bottom of the food chain pilot job. Of course the more experience you get, the more money you make.
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Relayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
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Loc: Moorglade Mover
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I'm taking the train from now on
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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katiefedup
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Posts: 11669
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http://www.aviationinterviews.com/compare_pay_rates.php
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1004SRS
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/11/06
Posts: 5044
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They may only work 1000 hours a year on the small commuter routes.
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katiefedup
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correct...the smaller the route, the smaller the plane the smaller the paycheck.
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092895
enthusiast
Reged: 04/03/08
Posts: 226
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So, I guess the salary quoted is more along the lines of part-time income (you wouldn't make that money at McDonalds for part-time). Although it stills sounds low for a pilot.
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1004SRS
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That is what they consider full-time.
If you work for the major airlines and have years of experience you, of course, make more money.
Edited by 1004SRS (04/23/08 03:21 PM)
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JennyLynn
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 31656
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<<correct...the smaller the route, the smaller the plane the smaller the paycheck. >>
Not necessarily. Private pilots get paid LOTS...and those [censored] are smaller (obviously) than the commercial ones...
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katiefedup
Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posts: 11669
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I thought we were talking a comercial piolts
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1004SRS
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/11/06
Posts: 5044
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We are.
If you are a private pilot, you have to be available at your employers beck and call.
Personally, I don't think being a pilot is as glamorous as people think.
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Miranda
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Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
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No, there are not "a lot" of female pilots. That is ridiculous. My husband flies and out of three squadrons there are TWO female pilots, granted this is military but I don't see a massive increase on the outside.
My friend's husband just retired from the AF and signed on with Southwest and his starting pay was about 35K for the first two years and then when he gets larger routes his pay will increase.
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
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Rebecca5
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Loc: Down home.
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DH's nephew has his commercial pilot's license, but makes more flying private charters from Nantucket. Because it's not very much more, he also completed his air traffic control education/apprenticeship so he can afford to live. He does a lot of airport-hopping within the smaller, regional airports....and works whenever anyone asks him to. Last year, he cleared almost $50k. Yippee.
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Miranda
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
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Yeah, the airlines is not the place to be right now. For any employee...
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
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katiefedup
Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posts: 11669
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If you have senior or FO it is still a living. Plus your family flies for free
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Miranda
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
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[quote]If you have senior or FO it is still a living. Plus your family flies for free [/quote]
heck yeah, the perks are awesome. I doubt my husband will ever fly commercial though.
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
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ssmom79
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I'm not sure I'm following. You say the NCP was CO'd to pay $475 per month for daycare based on there being four weeks in the month. That breaks down to about $120 per week the NCP is required to pay. That doesn't account for those pesky five week months. There's four weeks extra in the year that aren't accounted for based on the CO. So the CO shorts the CP $120 per week those four extra weeks. That's only $480 extra per year.
How do you know how the formula was calculated? Are you sure the didn't follow the right formula?
What is the CP required to pay for their portion of daycare?
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cincsu
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daycare is $252 per week. ncp pays $475 per month and nothing else. so, either way the CP is getting shorted on daycare monies. but it is what it is...a court order.
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wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
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Relayer
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Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 9506
Loc: Moorglade Mover
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[quote]daycare is $252 per week. ncp pays $475 per month and nothing else. so, either way the CP is getting shorted on daycare monies. but it is what it is...a court order. [/quote]
he only thimg the OP can do is gp back to court (pro-se if required) and have the timeframes more precisly done. It's not that big of a deal to do it. Juat make sure the motion is written correctly.
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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almostheaven
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Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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Unless and until the court order is changed. The court MAY have considered the 5 weeks and based the daycare on 52 weeks divided by 12 months. If they didn't, then your attorney, if you used one, was lax in their job. And you would have to have the order ammended to include those extra weeks.
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Char Fox
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almostheaven
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Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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That's less than poverty! You have to be rigidly trained to be a pilot. Its not a job you just jump into. I can't believe they'd make less than the guy at McD's might make.
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Char Fox
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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Well the airlines SHOULD be passing more onto the pilots. They certainly are getting enough. Just bought my ticket to my November conference to Vegas. Nearly $700.
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Char Fox
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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I don't see how anyone can use McD's and food in the same sentence. What they serve couldn't be considered food.
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Char Fox
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ssmom79
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 7806
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So if daycare is $252 per week and the NCP pays $120 of that leaves $132 for the CP to pay. That's only $12 a week more the CP is paying.
So in total, we have $480 unpaid per year from the five weeks, and $564 unpaid per year in the unmatched daycare for a total of $1044.00 per year the CP is paying MORE than the NCP. That's $20 a week average. Not much to be crying about if you can afford $252 for daycare per week.
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Relayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 9506
Loc: Moorglade Mover
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[quote]So if daycare is $252 per week and the NCP pays $120 of that leaves $132 for the CP to pay. That's only $12 a week more the CP is paying.
So in total, we have $480 unpaid per year from the five weeks, and $564 unpaid per year in the unmatched daycare for a total of $1044.00 per year the CP is paying MORE than the NCP. That's $20 a week average. Not much to be crying about if you can afford $252 for daycare per week. [/quote]
Every dollar counts and everyone should get their rightful share. The OP needs to go back and clarify the order to weekly or bi-weekly.
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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PBandJ
journeyman
Reged: 04/02/08
Posts: 72
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Hi Beanstalk, my husband and I are trying to get a deviation for extraordinary expenses incurred for him to visit his daughter. He spends about $6,000 a year to see her in NC. It was the CP who moved, not my husband.
We keep getting told that it's unlikely that he'll get a deviation. Can you give me any advice or tell me more about your situation and why you have to pay your x?
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