SCgirl
enthusiast
Reged: 01/27/08
Posts: 334
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I was reading another thread where one parent gave a letter to the child to give to the other parent. It was also brought up by another poster that her CS is put into an envelope in the child's suitcase. Most people thought these things were unnacaptable.
My TO states that CS is due on the 1st of the month to be paid directly to me. STBX has always given the children(both 10yo) the CS check to give to me on one of his weekly visits.(the weekly visits are his choice) He doesn't put the check into an envelope. I have had ongoing "issues" with him going through the children to let me know one thing or another. We have been separated since September and we have literally not spoken one word to eachother since he called to tell me off the day of our temp hearing and said that he wished I was dead and that I will get mine.
I have suggested that since he is obvously uncomfortable speaking to me, that we communicate via e-mail regarding the children. I have also asked him (via e-mail) on more than one occasion that he stop going through the children as this was stressing out our son in particular. One example, he will let son know day/time he will see them next and son will forget to tell me. STBX will then get angry at son when the children are not waiting outside at the designated time. I have tried to explain to him that this is unhealthy for the children and we can actually make this work for their sakes. He has pretty much ignored me.
Lately, I think he is doing things to try to provoke me but in turn is actually hurting our children. I took them out of town for the break and my daughter asked him if she could have some spending money to buy a souvenier. This was all on her own and she actually wanted to buy him a mug for his new place. She said that he told her that he won't give her anything because mommy is rich because he gives me more than enough. Recently, he kept sending messages through the children regarding the tax info as I am the one who gathers everything and has managed all of the finances. Last week daughter came back in tears after a visit with stbx. She said that "daddy" told her when they were almost home that they will have to go to public school and that mommy will be getting a job soon. Back info: stbx made over $600K in 2007. I haven't worked in almost 15 years but I am planning to go back to school so that I can get my nursing license. I have always been sahm their whole lives and I have been a very active volunteer at their school and take them to all of their ex-curricular activities. STBX is not has not been involved in their lives at all even when we were living under the same roof. Children have been in private school for 5 years and are thriving and there has never been a problem paying tuition in full every year. I have sole temp custody and have already re-enrolled the children for next year and paid the 10%. These are just a few examples in a long list.
I am at my wits end now. I have not acknowledged these recent particular incidents with him as I feel that his purpose in doing these things is to try to provoke me. He is looking to fight with me and we have a mutual order restraining us from harassing the other. He was against that BTW.
I have again, sent him an e-mail and asked him very nicely if he would please e-mail me when he would like to see the children and I would be sure to have them ready. I also asked him to just e-mail me if he has a request (such as tax info). I haven't heard back from him yet.
I am really concerned about the emotional damage that he may be doing to the children. Where do I go from this point? The children and I have a good relationship and I try to keep an open diologue with them and encourage them to share their feelings with me. I think they are pretty well adjusted children, under the circumstances. Should I bring this up to my lawyer and what can be done?
Thanks in advance for your input.
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beetlebug
member
Reged: 12/18/07
Posts: 114
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BUY TWO COPIES OF THE BOOK "DIVORCE POISON" BOTH OF YOU SHOULD BE READING THIS UNTIL THE DAMN PAGES FALL OUT!
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2Gr8Kdz84
newbie
Reged: 02/23/08
Posts: 37
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Get the kids to counseling. It will help in many ways: they'll get help, you'll get an objective professional opinion of how they are "really" doing and you'll get an evaluation that might very well help you with the judge.
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MeandLiv
newbie
Reged: 03/25/07
Posts: 46
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Sorry it is hard. I know five women who went through a divorce in the past two years. And all the exes have been jerks with things like this. It is sad when they involve the children, but my ex has done it, too. He is a good dad, but when he gets in one of his moods watch out!
It is a mother's natural instict to protect her young so most moms would not dream of this behavior!
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yregna
veteran
Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 1265
Loc: Oregon
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Women do this crap all the time, they just say " it is best for the children "
Everything is " best for the children..." get the father away, give him a checkbook and have him write big checks to the ex wife every month, it is all best for the children. Women say they are protecting the children this way, but it is just another lie to get money.
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"Anything free is worth what you pay for it..."
"Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get"
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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...is that abuse at the hands of a mother is more frequent than at the hands of a father. Sorry that life has jaded you so, but the numbers do not lie. Women abuse children more than men.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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 Rebecca5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
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I thought you were going to stop misrepresenting this "fact," after it was proven to be based on faulty "statistics".....on numerous occasions.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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...it is a FACT, and I would never agree to not use a FACT.
Why is it women expect men to accept all the figures and statistics about how bad men are, but present a SOLID fact that places SOME women (still a minority) in a bad light, and we have to stop using it? Women DO abuse children more than men.
But lets look at something else. ONE gender abuses kids more than the other. It is either MEN or WOMEN, since their are only two genders. So, if WOMEN do not abuse more, then MEN abuse more. Why is it OKAY for YOU to say that women do not abuse more, with NO proof (thereby stating that men abuse more), but somehow, it is wrong for me, WITH solid proof, to say women abuse more?
And a follow up, WHICH gender, in your opinion, abuses children more? Please provide proof.
Oh, and IF by "flawed" you are reffering to the whole BS excuse that, well, "Women have the kids more, so they have more of an opportunity", please spare me. Saying that would also indicate that it is okay to leave a child with a pediophile, as long as it wasn't for "too long".
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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googledad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/31/05
Posts: 10207
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"Faulty Statistics" ?
Question
Who are the perpetrators of child abuse and neglect? Who typically abuses and neglects children?
Answer
Most States define perpetrators of child abuse and neglect as parents and “other caretakers” (such as relatives, babysitters, and foster parents) who have harmed a child in their care. It is important to note that States define the term “caretaker” differently. Harm caused to a child by others (such as acquaintances or strangers) may not be considered “child abuse” but rather may be considered a criminal matter.
According to the National Child Abuse and Neglect Data System’s most current report, Child Maltreatment 2006, of the approximately 905,000 child abuse and neglect victims in 2006, the largest percentage of perpetrators, nearly 80 percent (79.9%) were parents of the victim, including birth parents, adoptive parents, and stepparents. Other relatives accounted for an additional 6.7 percent, residential staff for 0 .2 percent, and child daycare providers for 0.6 percent. An unmarried partner of a parent accounted for 3.8 percent of perpetrators while a foster parent accounted for 0.4 percent of perpetrators.
In 2006, approximately 58 percent (57.9%) of child abuse and neglect perpetrators were women and 42 percent (42.1%) were men. For the most part, female perpetrators were younger than male perpetrators; of the women who were perpetrators, more than 40 percent (45.3%) of women were younger than 30 years of age as compared to one-third percent (35.1%) of men.
The full text of Child Maltreatment 2006 is available on the Children’s Bureau website at
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm06/index.htm.
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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...is that in the areas of crime that MEN are more prevelant in, I like to think that MOST men, at leasy most I know, are JUST as horrified and would do anyting to reduce or stop it. In this are, where women are PROVEN to be the greater offender, not only do some women NOT come out against it, they do their damndest to deny it even EXISTS.
I wonder what the response would be if WE tried that tactic in regards to men?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Rebecca5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
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We've been through this ad nauseum. You can't tell me for one hot minute that you don't remember....or some other crap.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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...before. The problem with your memory on this is that you SOMEHOW seem to remember proving thise things FALSE, when no such proof was ever given.
But, in the interest of peace on the boards, if you can disprove ONLY the above numbers that GD posted, I will NEVER bring the subject up again.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Rebecca5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
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I've never disagreed with the neglect statistics. I do, however, disagree with the abuse "fact" as gr8dad routinely presents it. There is a HUGE difference between the two, and single family homes DO impact the final outcomes...most especially the neglect statistics.
At one point, we spent 3 days discussing the stats, the sources, etc. At the end of it all, he was like..."well....yeah....maybe you have a point." Every now and then, he pops up again and states it like it's true, like no one will notice.
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Rebecca5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
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That's a load of BS, and you know it. Between the two of us, we must have looked at 50 links....INCLUDING the one that googledad posted. I did it all once....look at every "study," and every "resource," and it was actually rather civil. You said THEN that you wouldn't say it again, but you keep on doing it.
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Rebecca5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
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[quote]...is that in the areas of crime that MEN are more prevelant in, I like to think that MOST men, at leasy most I know, are JUST as horrified and would do anyting to reduce or stop it. In this are, where women are PROVEN to be the greater offender, not only do some women NOT come out against it, they do their damndest to deny it even EXISTS. [/quote]
And let me add....that's friggin RICH. How many hours and years of YOUR life have YOU dedicated to helping victims of abuse or neglect outside of your own house? I HAVE done EVERYTHING within my power to stop it. So...THAT little comment burns my ass...and is total bullshit.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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...because I would NEVER have said that. So I am denying that the conversation EVER took place. If you find the thread, I MAY reconsider, but I would not say that you were right and women DON'T abuse more, when the FACT of the matter is that they DO.
I realize that you want to take "neglect" out of the equation, and while that would affect the numbers SOMEWHAT, it would not drop them to the level you claim. And as a father to a child that was PHYSICALLY abused by her mom, and a male child who was NEGLECTED by his mom, I can tell you that the effects are FAR worse with the neglect. The physical abuse is bad enough, but most of the injuries heal. The neglect leaves one doubting their own self worth, and wondering why is WRONG with them that their own parent doesn't want them.
And I will add that by attempting to separate the two, claiming one is somehow not as BAD as the other, so it is okay, is simply nauseating and BENEATH you. It would be akin to someone saying that because one rapist didn't leave marks, he is somehow BETTER than another rapist who does leaves bruises. Either way, it is RAPE and either way, it is ABUSE.
As for how I help, I used to teach a class on parenting in our county, until my marriage to my stbx, where I was raising 8 children who have all been abused. I was not slamming what YOU did, please do not do the same to me.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Rebecca5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
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[quote]...because I would NEVER have said that. So I am denying that the conversation EVER took place. If you find the thread, I MAY reconsider, but I would not say that you were right and women DON'T abuse more, when the FACT of the matter is that they DO.
I realize that you want to take "neglect" out of the equation, and while that would affect the numbers SOMEWHAT, it would not drop them to the level you claim. And as a father to a child that was PHYSICALLY abused by her mom, and a male child who was NEGLECTED by his mom, I can tell you that the effects are FAR worse with the neglect. The physical abuse is bad enough, but most of the injuries heal. The neglect leaves one doubting their own self worth, and wondering why is WRONG with them that their own parent doesn't want them.
And I will add that by attempting to separate the two, claiming one is somehow not as BAD as the other, so it is okay, is simply nauseating and BENEATH you. It would be akin to someone saying that because one rapist didn't leave marks, he is somehow BETTER than another rapist who does leaves bruises. Either way, it is RAPE and either way, it is ABUSE.
As for how I help, I used to teach a class on parenting in our county, until my marriage to my stbx, where I was raising 8 children who have all been abused. I was not slamming what YOU did, please do not do the same to me. [/quote]
There IS a difference between the two. "Neglect" includes medical, educational and environmental issues. There is NO comparison between a dirty house and and sexual molestation. ZERO. NONE. So it's NOT "beneath" me...it's the friggin TRUTH. It's absolutely LUDICROUS to claim that a child who is BEATEN by their parent suffers as much as a child who doesn't get their school immunizations on time. And YES, those two very minor (by comparison) infractions ARE counted as neglect.
While the children you have cared for have suffered....more than most people can possibly imagine....it does NOT change the TRUTH...and is NOT the bar by which all other cases are compared. Yes, women are more neglectful. No, women are not more abusive. In fact, in our LAST discussion about this issue, we broke down ALL of the statistics, and it was VERY clear that more MEN are perpetrators of physical and sexual abuse.
No...what you claimed was that I denied that abuse by women "EXISTS," which is a HUGE load of bullshit. I wasn't "slamming" what you used to do. I WAS "slamming" your insinuation. It offends the very heart of everything I have worked for.
What I thoroughly believe that you do is purposefully misuse the word "abuse" for maximum impact. It sounds more convincing....makes your argument seem more powerful than it really is. I believe you misstate that little falsehood on purpose, and it's gross. Want to change to "maltreatment"...then great. THAT would be accurate. But of course not....it doesn't sound as "good" to you. Barf.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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...who we, as men, have to hear have a SPECIAL bond with the child, and SHOULD be the primary caretaker because of that bond, DO abuse more than men. Break it down anyway you want. Negate "neglect" because they were to lazy to clean the house or make the kid go to school. It is STILL abuse, whether you like it or not.
Oh, and women are more likely to KILL a child as well, and honestly, I don't care if the death was from NEGLECT or PHYSICAL ABUSE, it is STILL wrong and STILL harmful to a child and your attempt to DEFEND these pieces of SH!T because someone else MAY have done something "worse" is sickening.
I will WHOLEHEARTEDLY admit that men lead the sexual abuse sector, and THAT sickens me. I think they should be executed for any such violation. I guess if they ONLY neglect the GREATEST GIFT THEY COULD EVER RECIEVE (a child), they're somehow okay in your book.
I use the word ABUSE exactly in the context it is meant for. HARMING, in ANY way shape or form, a CHILD. Rationalize it all you want, women are MORE harmful to children than men.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Rebecca5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
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[quote]...who we, as men, have to hear have a SPECIAL bond with the child, and SHOULD be the primary caretaker because of that bond, DO abuse more than men. Break it down anyway you want. Negate "neglect" because they were to lazy to clean the house or make the kid go to school. It is STILL abuse, whether you like it or not.
Oh, and women are more likely to KILL a child as well, and honestly, I don't care if the death was from NEGLECT or PHYSICAL ABUSE, it is STILL wrong and STILL harmful to a child and your attempt to DEFEND these pieces of SH!T because someone else MAY have done something "worse" is sickening.
I will WHOLEHEARTEDLY admit that men lead the sexual abuse sector, and THAT sickens me. I think they should be executed for any such violation. I guess if they ONLY neglect the GREATEST GIFT THEY COULD EVER RECIEVE (a child), they're somehow okay in your book.
I use the word ABUSE exactly in the context it is meant for. HARMING, in ANY way shape or form, a CHILD. Rationalize it all you want, women are MORE harmful to children than men.[/quote]
THAT'S hysterical. LOL. That's EXACTLY what I said you were doing. Using a faulty argument to back-up your claims. I said absolutely NOTHING about who makes a better parent, or who should have primary care-taking responsibilities. I SIMPLY asked for YOU to not misrepresent something.
YOU, better than MOST....should know that I could give a rat's ass who the BETTER parent is by their GENDER.....especially seeing as how I was raised by a single FATHER....and I MARRIED a single father. Unlike YOU, I DO NOT use this crap to justify my position with regard to EVERY PERSON. *I* can still form an opinion based on the INDIVIDUAL...NOT whether they take a piss standing up or sitting down. MAYBE someday you might get there too.....but I'm sure as sh!t not holding my breath.
What you seem to latch on to is that I'm somehow "defending" women who are crappy parents. Can I ask, exactly, where I said that? Oh right....I DIDN'T. Lest you forget, I put those people in JAIL for a living, for 10 YEARS. I've NEVER defended ANYONE who either abuses or neglects their child. But THIS is where the "gr8dad" experience comes full circle. Look...more BULLSHIT. WHERE did I say that ANY abuse OR neglect is just fine? NEVER. So screw you.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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"Yes, women are more neglectful. No, women are not more abusive."
Somehow, you have rationalized that NEGLECT is not ABUSE. Guess what, it IS and it is JUST as, if not MORE, harmful than physical abuse. A finding of NEGLECT by CPS does NOT happen because the floor wasn't swept or the kid missed a few days of school. So your claim that they are lumping in cases or environmental or educational neglect is BS, plain and simple.
Women ABUSE more than men. It is a FACT, there are NUMEROUS reports stating so, and everyone KNOWS it. It is people like you who refuse to ACCEPT it that are a HINDERANCE to SOLVING the problem.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Rebecca5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
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[quote]"Yes, women are more neglectful. No, women are not more abusive."
Somehow, you have rationalized that NEGLECT is not ABUSE. Guess what, it IS and it is JUST as, if not MORE, harmful than physical abuse. A finding of NEGLECT by CPS does NOT happen because the floor wasn't swept or the kid missed a few days of school. So your claim that they are lumping in cases or environmental or educational neglect is BS, plain and simple.
Women ABUSE more than men. It is a FACT, there are NUMEROUS reports stating so, and everyone KNOWS it. It is people like you who refuse to ACCEPT it that are a HINDERANCE to SOLVING the problem. [/quote]
My disagreeing with your misuse of the terminology doesn't equate to defending OR justifying the behavior, so that's just pure bullshit, and you know it. Got anything else, or is that your big, lousy, inaccurate, smoking gun?
You were so quick to refer me back to GD's post...which.....SEVERAL times says, "child abuse and neglect" based on numbers by the "National Child Abuse and Neglect Data System." So...if they are seen as the SAME, they wouldn't be broken down into TWO categories. It's really very simple for most people to comprehend.
And you're soooooo right.....it's people like ME who are a HINDRANCE to solving the problem....what with all my court appearances, mentoring, teaching of parenting classes, CASA volunteer hours and such. I'm suuuuuuch a hindrance.
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googledad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/31/05
Posts: 10207
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While the children you have cared for have suffered....more than most people can possibly imagine....it does NOT change the TRUTH...and is NOT the bar by which all other cases are compared. Yes, women are more neglectful. No, women are not more abusive.
>>>>> Funny , FATALITIES due to abuse or neglect are overwhelmingly committed by mothers .
Perpetrator Relationships of Child Fatalities 2006
Mother 27.4%
Father 13.1%
Mother & Father 22.4%
Mother & Other 11.5%
Father % Other 1.5%
In fact, in our LAST discussion about this issue, we broke down ALL of the statistics, and it was VERY clear that more MEN are perpetrators of physical and sexual abuse.
>>>>>>>> Most of the info & stats comes from REPORTED abuse , men & boys are less likely to report sexual or physical abuse at the hands of a female .
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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gdave44
member
Reged: 11/04/06
Posts: 151
Loc: New Mexico
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I know my children and myself were victims of female perpetrated violence. True to the norm, I never reported her attacks on me. The one police report on file before she really lit into the children was an incident where she called the police. They believed the same myth and threatened to arrest me even though all the marks were on me. I never touched her. After a second call and her attacking one of the police officers, they finally took her into "protective custody".
We all bought into the common myth that women aren't violent, and a few months later, my girls suffered for it.
Since then I've learned the stats on abuse and don't feel quite so singled out. I believe that a lot of men meet more harsh penalties and women lesser penalties because judges and juries also tend to buy into these myths. We spent the last 20 years educating the public about violence against women, but really it should have been a broad education against domestic violence in general. Men are afraid to speak out because they're commonly assumed to be the real perpetrator, because they're not believed, or because they're generally laughed at.
Been there, done that, could write a book. But nobody would read it.
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Rebecca5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
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I 100% believe that women can be violent. In fact, women often possess a creepiness behind their rage....rather than just that bald-faced rage that men often have. And for what it's worth, everything that I've taught about domestic violence includes all perpetrators and victims....and the reasons why many people don't report.....men and women alike.
I'm so sorry that you and your children have suffered. Thankfully they have you, and your strength. I wish you all the best.
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gdave44
member
Reged: 11/04/06
Posts: 151
Loc: New Mexico
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Thanks Rebecca, some days I need all the encouragement I can get. Her trial finally begins in 15 days, more than 2 years after her arrest. The anxiety level is unreal. I find myself praying for the most severe in punishment for her. Not because of ill will toward her, my forgiveness for her came swiftly, but to put an end to her continued attempts at custody and support. She'll always be a threat to our children and should never be alone with them. She abuses prescription drugs, something the state mental hospital as well as three other psychiatrists have determined. She has no remorse for her actions and continues to blame me, the kids, the drugs, and everyone for her actions. It would be wonderful for their mother to be a part of their lives, but not at the expense of their safety.
Hopefully the pictures, testimony, and her videotaped confession will override the popularly held belief that mothers don't hurt their kids.
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mommyof9
old hand
Reged: 10/04/08
Posts: 1176
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Maybe women wouldn't be deemed "neglectful" if they didn't have to work 2-3 jobs to support their children because their ex's didn't feel like paying CS.
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Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
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