jil_stevens
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/31/06
Posts: 3893
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The goal is NOT to get him to help out. The goal is to get him to quit using all his energy to get out of work. He does this with ALL chores, even if he was given a choice. And quite honestly, if we give him his choice then the other two get stuck with what is left, and how is that fair? So chores generally rotate. However, it is his cat that is injured and thus his responsibility, and he not only didn't do the work, but covered up and pretended to do it. The mess was his mess that he made, thus he cleans it up. I am not going to clean up after him nor should the other two.
Again, just because on of three children is lazy and deceitful doesnt get him special treatment because that is just punishing the other two for NOT being lazy and deceitful. We certainly don't want to teach him that if you lie about doing your work, you will get to do stuff you enjoy instead.
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Rebecca5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
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[quote]<<<Had you been clear in the beginning that giving away his dessert was going to be the punishment if he forgot the chore, I can *almost* see it as reasonable...although using food as a disciplinary tool is ill-advised. But to give it to him, and THEN tell him that he was going to have to give it away was....well....retaliatory and small. >>>
Yes, but you misread the issue...he didn't forget to do his chore. He didn't want to do his chore, pretended to do the chore and hid the evidence that he did not do his chore, and then told us he had done the chore. Then he called his mom and asked her to pick him up early, which she did and which we are okay with because we have learned that wehen she is in the mood, we allow her to have him whenever. Had he simply forgotten, that is an understandable childhood error. But he spent more energy trying to get out of it. So, it is a totally different situation. [/quote]
Okay. Thank you for explaining. It doesn't change my opinion, however. I've tried to explain it a few different ways, but you'd rather argue semantics than actually find other solutions that might work. So...good luck to you.
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jil_stevens
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/31/06
Posts: 3893
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Why would we? She has no interest in raising him. We are lucky when she takes him on the weekends, much less when she takes him for an extra day or so. She doesn't even have a bed for him.
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jil_stevens
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/31/06
Posts: 3893
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I am not trying to just argue semantics, but my point was that unless we are harsh, it doesn't get through. And I don't mean harsh as in we beat him. In fact, he has gotten one spanking in the last five years. But the suddenness gets through.
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Rebecca5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
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No. Because you disagree with the way I present something or my word choice, you think I don't understand what's going on and feel the need to correct me, as though it will impact my opinion. That being said....I probably don't fully understand what's going on...because I don't live in your house. However, it doesn't change my opinion.
What I DO know is that what you're doing apparently isn't working very well for this particular child. The punishments you're choosing aren't typically recommended either at all, or for a child his age. But...you do whatever seems to make you feel in control and dominant, and let me know how that works out.
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nrvouswrk
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
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Have you tried rewarding him for good behavior instead of punishing for bad? I think the problem a few of us have is you using food as a form of punishment. It was bad enough letting the others eat cake in front of him, but to hand it to him, then take it away seems childish.
How about telling him that if he does all of his chores for the week, you will make him a special cake next weekend?
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Rebecca5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
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I just had a conversation about this with a former neighbor. She's one of those parents who just punishes and punishes....takes everything away from her son, etc, etc.
I'm like...why WOULD he behave well? He's got nothing to lose. She also does the public humiliation, open irritation/disgust...the whole nine. The kid has no motive for doing well, other than to NOT be punished. Whoopee. It's nothing but negative reinforcement 24/7, and being compared to her other 2 "good" kids.
I guess this one hit a chord for me. It's just so bothersome. I mean...this kid is 10. Jeesh.
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nrvouswrk
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
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It did me too Rebecca...more than you know. My father grew up very poor. He use to tell us that one of his mother's favorite punishments was to send him to bed without dinner. He ended up lying about his age in order to join the military. He said that was the first good meal he had had in his life. Needless to say, he was adamant that food never be used as a punishment. We went to be right AFTER dinner many a time, but NEVER before.
I think when a kid is made to feel that they can't do anything right, instead of trying harder, they just don't try at all. Why bother...It seems like this is the case with this child.
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jil_stevens
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/31/06
Posts: 3893
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He actually continually gets rewarded for good behavior. In fact, the only time he is ever punished is when he is lying and being deceitful and lazy. In fact, he is in trouble for being lazy today, but has been praised and rewarded multiple times today as well for things he does right. Generally speaking, I agree it works better.
The "public humiliation" is debateable, he was one of three people in the room. And I honestly don't understand where you are getting the whole open irritation and disgust? Because when he (or any of the three) gets punished, it is an instant thing and then we don't continually drag it out and remind them of how disappointed we were. We are disappointd, therefore this, and it is dropped. And he is never compared to the other two. In fact, they are all treated equally. He certainly isn't treated as the loser of the family, which is the way you make it seem. I merely posted, venting about one particular issue and askign what other people did. But seriously, this kid has an easy life, has it made in the shade, and in fact the problem is not he has no incentive to be good (when he isn't trying to get out of work, he is a very good and well-behaved child and we rarely have behavior problems with him) but that he has no incentive to work. So...if it takes making him work for his good life, then that is only fair, isn't it? The other two do an equal amount of chores...perhaps more because the youngest gets the easiest chores...and thus when they do them, have earned their things. The youngest must go out of his way to get out of work, and thus has not earned the easy life he is receiving. Esp. considering they each have maybe 30 minutes of chores a day and the rest of their time is theirs to do with as they please...seriously, you make it sound as if we hate the child, treat him like a dirt bag, and make him sit filthy in a corner with nothing to do. Instead, he has his own room with his own television, cable internet video games, multitudes of toys, gets the music lessons he wants, bikes, scooters, skateboards, dirtbike, basketball hoop, everytghing his heart desires he gets, if anything, he is acting this way because he is spoiled rotten, not because he has nothing to lose.
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Rebecca5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
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Especially if he feels rejected by his mother....and I can't imagine that he wouldn't, although he doesn't have the vocabulary to say that. He's already a loser, in his mind. Why try harder?
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