JennyLynn
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Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 31656
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Did he REALLY just send me this???
It was sent from XH's email address, from one of his life long friends who I knew when we met. The man is a spoiled rich brat who apparently think of himself as an attorney.
"Are you kidding me?! Read this…
“Hi Jennifer,
After conferring with XH for several hours on the state of your impending court date, he has asked that I assist him in writing you to express his his thoughts and opinions in an attempt to amicably settle the state of DS's well fare. As you are very well aware, XH is a very emotional individual and at times, it is his emotion that impedes his ability to express what he is trying to communicate, both verbally and in written form. My intention is only to act as an unbiased, non-partisan liaison so all parties can resolve this issue and move forward as quickly as possible. Please note this is not an attempt to super cede the the custody demands you have outlined in your settlement agreement, only an appeal to the humanistic aspect of the situation.
Through out the course of the last 1.5 years I have been (begrudgingly) intimate with not only your separation with XH, but also, and most importantly, the settling of custody with DS. I have a very unique and outside perspective on the situation because I have personally been involved in such a situation, as the child in question, when my parents separated years ago. I believe that many times in such situations children unfortunately become 'emotional equity' and bear the undo burden of resolving more global problems facing their parents as individuals. It is only when enough time has passed and emotions settle enough to step back and objectively examine the situation to determine: in the wake of our failure, what steps need to be taken to ensure the successful upbringing of our child(ren.) XH ACCEPTS THE TERMS OF YOUR PROPOSAL, however, he asks that you examine some of his financial obligations in an attempt to come to an agreement more conducive to his abilities to fulfill those that you are asking. Again, please keep in mind that I am only acting as an arbitrator in an attempt to settle this dispute amongst individuals, in the absence of a court of law, in an attempt to set precedence in future dealings with one another. Involving the court structure every time we have conflict is costly, cumbersome and most importantly degenerative to the collective goal of good will towards XH. Please examine:
Current monthly expenses (3 year forecast)
Child support 1: $300 (DS)
Child support 2: $214 (exDSD)
Car payment: $309
Full coverage car insurance: $209
Telephone: $102
Arrears: $300
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$1434/month
Before including ANY home expenses, i.e., rent, gas, water, electric XH is already liquidating 75% of his current PRE-TAX income (at a rate of $100/shift 5 shift (40 hour+) work week. At this current rate XH is only left with $566 a MONTH (roughly $20 a day remaining) to cover food, gas, incidentals, sundries, etc. Please note this pre-tax gross income before including any personal dwelling expenses.
As an appeal to reason:
As stipulated in your agreement DS is not to spend anymore than 2 hours of non-supervised time with XH's mother, L. As a sign of XH's lucidity, he too agrees that at times exMIL can be a bit negative and that it is not an ideal living situation for your child. Further, and I think all parties can agree, it is neither healthy or ideal for a parent to be co-habitating with their parents (exMIL) at 27 years of age. Ideally, or rather, as should be expected, each respective parent should hold a residence of their own in full compliance and of reasonable accommodation to set a standard of structure for the child to based a model for his future endeavors. At XH's current rate of income, however, he is unable to meet his financial obligations to his modest standard of living and also his legal necessities. Please understand that XH is well aware of the negative repercussions of his life choices, but it is nearly impossible to overcome these financial obstacles while also confronting the QUINTESSENTIAL components of his psyche and life choices that have led him to where he is now. Even from an objective standpoint I think all parties would agree that it is more difficult to be a happy and optimistic person when your budgetary constraints force you to live with your mother on a $20/day allowance before food and gas. From a humanistic standpoint I beg you, please, consider these implications. Despite the fact that XH is relinquishing custody you devised a very considerate visitation schedule wouldn't you agree that some discretionary income would allow for a better living environment? It would allow XH to have a home of his own and relieve him of his constant, internal downtrodden making him a better parent when he has DS.
From what your documents indicate XH is delinquent roughly in the amount of $6000. While you have very reasonably proposed that you will forgive one half the debt, after reviewing his income statement it is my hope that the two of you can reach an agreement more congruent to what he can afford. WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO RELIEVE XH OF HIS PAST DUE $6000 IN ARREARAGE? In the absence of outstanding medical bills there should be no truly pressing need for this payment. XH understands that there is no quantifying the day to day expenses of raising a child (whereby the $3000 is understandable) and only wishes himself the same financial independence to do the same. Please consider the psychological implications of relinquishing full custody of your child in addition to coping with lack of income and other life obstacles. It is my hope that you will be able to see beyond his past indiscretions in the hope of finding a compromise even more generous than the one you have already proposed.
I am,
very truly yours,
XXXX
post script: Please note that it is only my intention to act as arbitrator to this situation. I am in no way implicating myself as legal aid or defense for XH , but simply as an appeal to reason. I truly respect you and your decisions regarding XH and only wish you happiness and the best.
cc: xxx, esquire.”
Edited by JennyLynn (06/25/08 08:17 AM)
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BB1
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Um, JL, this man is xh's life long BFF who can't spell welfare, and is way too wordy. His email kinda reminded me of Miranda's quote...use big words to confuse people. This man sent this to you because he probably doesn't want to see your x in jail. And of course he shares the same (if not worst) sense of entitlement your ex has.
I would not even respond but if you must, a simple thanks for your thoughts and time. (period). No further explanation needed.
PS - notice how he tried to put you on a guilt trip by talking about how divorce impacted him and how emotions override best interest of kids? Guilt trips are control tactics.
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It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear.
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Cassie23
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What did you expect? He doesn't have to do anything to get 1/2 off the arrears... Even if it means you getting sole and him having EOW that's what's happening now anyways.
At least with ssmom's approach he would have to do well for 6 months and then get an incentive.
Now he's thinking if she's willing to let 1/2 slide, why not the full? I think that approach is doing a real disservice to him.
CS COULD be revisited at min. wage 40 hours a week- why not do that? Come to that agreement?? Like you said his CS for his DD was $100/month based on him waiting tables.
Furthermore why not have him pay off arrears at $50/month or something like that? I know when DH was behind in CS (BM got a modification and they went back to the filing date) all he had to do was talk to CSE and they ok'ed $50/month in arrears. Of course he wasn't $6k behind.
I think he should pay a lump sum RIGHT NOW to show that he's serious about getting back on track. Why doesn't he ask his rich friend for it? Then I'd say min wage at 40 hours a week and $50/month for arrears. If he continues to pay consistently for 6 months you knock 1/2 the arrears off.
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JennyLynn
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Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 31656
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Oh I totally agree - It's HUMOROUS!!
I responded with "No, this does not meet my approval. I'll see you in court on Thursday."
And I agree - it's all about control. What, he isn't "emotionally stable" enough to even communicate with me?! His "psyche" isn't in tact?
Seriously. I am so furious he even tried this bullsh*t and at the same time laughing my a$$ off at the same time.
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JennyLynn
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I'm emailing my attorney right now, and forwarding his email to her.
I'm willing to discuss and negotiate at this point, but to even contemplate agreeing to his "terms"...not gonna happen.
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PrincessJ
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Tell the "arbitrator" to fvck off.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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RJ1
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I personally don't think forgiving ANY arrears is doing your son any favors. How is that in the best interest of your son? Ya'll already ACT as if you have sole...he's not gaining anything there and neither are you, except for a little word on paper that means nothing.
RJ
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1004SRS
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Reged: 12/11/06
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Child support 1: $300 (DS)
Child support 2: $214 (exDSD)
Car payment: $309
Full coverage car insurance: $209
Telephone: $102
Arrears: $300
Okay, he needs to get rid of the $100 a month phone bill. I pay for both my cell and my parents cell for $75 a month.
The car needs to be sold for a beater that runs. He can be like the rest of the world and drive a less expensive car with cheaper insurance until he pays his debts.
He can live at home, work 60 hours a week until he fulfills his obligations. Then, you can play.
He needs Dave Ramsey's financial advice.
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JennyLynn
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I completely agree SRS.
Thing is??? I just spent over $1K to get that car out from beneath him b/c he "couldn't afford it" and it was about to be repo'd. I have NO problem with doing that but what I DO have a problem with is now I have a $300 car payment (whereas before I had an old beater upper my parents gave me and had NO car payment), and he goes out and SOMEHOW gets a loan and gets another vehicle for the same amount he was paying on the car.
I've bent over BACKWARDS for this man and he apparently still thinks he can walk all over me.
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JennyLynn
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RJ - I'm beginning to think you're right.
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preemiemom
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Guess I'll be the dissenting view.. as always.
First, yes.. the "arbitrator" needs some grammar and/or typing lessons, BUT alot of what he said has ALOT of truth and value.
I can totally relate to what he's saying about a 27 year old guy shouldn't be living with mommy. Particularly mommy whom isn't allowed to be alone with the child.
My ex is 36, living with mommy and stepdaddy. Albeit paying rent.. but there's still issues. When he moves to the other side of the basement (paying less rent), there will be no bathroom, there will be no living area. As they do know, they hang out, and play, watch TV in Daddy's bedroom. Not ideal.
You're never going to SEE those arrearages anyway. Why not act in good faith?
PLEASE don't bring up the damn car. YOUR choice. He didn't ask you to take the car, you CHOSE to take the car.
Personally? I think you're "laughing" at it shows YOUR character and totally desire to 100% control the situation the way YOU want it to be. And you're not doing yourself, your son, or your ex, any good by it.
You could let it go... accept the agreement. You have a LONG way and a ton of potential dollars to have arrearages on. What's 6 grand in the grand scheme of things?
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MTmom
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JL - is this old bff a man or a woman?
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JennyLynn
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PM - no, flat out, I will NOT be doing myself or my son ANY favors by accepting this.
I have let this man control my life and walk all over me for long enough.
If laughing about it proves my character, it shows I'm strong enough to be ABLE to laugh about it.
And tomorrow? This isn't just between him and me. I can't even say a judge would ALLOW me to forgive all his arrears, he is in contempt or court and this is a criminal case - it is the state vs. XH, I don't have all the control.
Sure, some of what he said is true, and a LOT of it is not true, as well as the fact that he's leaving out a lot of the facts.
Did I force him to move home with mommy? Did I force him to make all the decisions he has made?
You can continue to make excuses for this man, I'm thankful I'm finally strong enough to no longer do the same.
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JennyLynn
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It's a man.
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1966Gal
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I agree the "arbitrator" is ridiculous. But, he has a point.
No, I wouldn't "forgive" the past-due amount, but I would agree to "hold it", interest-free/penality-free for 5 years. It will be due, in full, 5 years from now. That would get that monkey off of your ex's back for now, but not relieve him of the responsibility.
Then, I would come up with a reasonable amount he can pay you each month and still get by.
I would say "OK, here's my deal. He will pay me $xxx a month. He will keep me notified of where he works at any given time. If I have to track down his employer EVER, the deal is off. If he is ONE DAY late, or misses ANY of the $xxx, the deal is off."
If he can't make it on this $xxx, then he needs to get a 2nd job, sell his truck, shut off his phones...I really don't care. Final offer, he can take it or tell it to the judge.
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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.
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youngatheart
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Sweetie, I think the offer you made of him paying 1/2 (which if paid on time released him from the other half)was the best you could do.
All you can do now is let go and let the Judge do what he wants to do.
Well, that and have lunch with me. Think that might fit your schedule today?
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MTmom
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That was a pretty girly email for a man. :) I have the worst visual in my head of this guy.. right down to the pink loafers!
Hang in there JL.. it will get better. After Thursdays hearing, I still see your ex as being awfully agreeable to your proposal.. because it's likely going to be much more generous than the one that the judge gives him!!
On the plus side.. you now have a written statement and a witness to call if it is ever necessary to demonstrate the issues surrounding xmil.
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preemiemom
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Well.. that letter.. and your "fvck you no way" reply will likely be presented in court. And I will venture to guess YOU will look like the bad guy. You've dragged him into court twice in 6 months.
I HIGHLY doubt you can keep your mouth shut about the goddamned car either and how he's "never paid you a dollar" for a car you ELECTED to handle.
You're going to have a very very very very very long 15 years JL. VERY. I feel very sorry for you. I don't anticipate that you're going to have any "peace" for a very long time.
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JennyLynn
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I wish I wasn't so exhausted and I'd totally do lunch!! :)
I just talked to BM #1...she always makes me feel better, it always helpes b/c we've gone through very similar situations regarding XH and our children, and although they aren't exactly the same she's always someone good to talk to. She's very strong in her faith and always has the right words to say!
I'm stressing too much about this. I have to stop. I have to stop allowing HIM to have control over my emotions. I'll be there tomorrow, but I'm putting this in God's hands, and He's putting it in the judge's hands. Who knows what will come about today or tomorrow before court at 1pm, I know what I'll be doing - praying for strength! :)
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JennyLynn
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<<Well.. that letter.. and your "fvck you no way" reply will likely be presented in court. And I will venture to guess YOU will look like the bad guy. You've dragged him into court twice in 6 months.
>>
What?!?! LOL, where did you get that I sent a response like THAT??
It's the same judge - he's well aware we've been to court twice in the last year.
You can think as you want PM - your words no longer upset me! You don't know me, you don't know all the facts. Like I said, you can continue to enable this man - and I'll continue to stay strong for my son - b/c HE is the one who matters in all of this.
I do have peace, I have peace and I have faith that God will lead me in the right direction, and help me to make the right choices as he's done all along. That's what gives ME peace.
Edited by JennyLynn (06/25/08 09:56 AM)
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PrincessJ
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Actually, if she continues to bent and give in, yeah, I'd agree its going to be a long, long 15 years. If she is consistent and stands strong, he'll know better than to pull a 3rd party in to sway her.
It's just like disciplinging a child, IMO. If you show weakness and lack follow thru, the kid is going to know you are a push over. She needs to be strong and follow thru. period, end of sentence.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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JennyLynn
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Bingo PJ!!! I'm in the situation I'm in b/c I've ALLOWED him to walk all over me. And it won't happen anymore. It's the end of an era! :)
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PrincessJ
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[quote]Bingo PJ!!! I'm in the situation I'm in b/c I've ALLOWED him to walk all over me. And it won't happen anymore. It's the end of an era! :) [/quote]
Good for you!
Go, girl!
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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preemiemom
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The brevity and flatness of the reply insinuates a "fvck you" attitude. It's called reading between the lines.
And yes, I'm sure the judge is.. and I'm sure he's tired of seeing you already.
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JennyLynn
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Thanks girl :).
I'm feeling rejuvinated! I think I've gone through absolutely every emotion known to man in the last 24 hours, lol.
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PrincessJ
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Based on other posters, I thought brevity and flatness is THE way to respond. Period.
BTW, I didn't see a response posted. Did I miss it?
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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JennyLynn
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Ohhhhh no. Brevity and flatness is for the WEAK... ;)
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youngatheart
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Ummm, Jenny rejected a request that she relieve him of all arrears. I do not see that looking bad on her in Court tomorrow. Tomorrow is about HIM and HIS refusal to pay what the Court has ordered. HIS lack of integrity. HIS bad financial choices.
And yeah, one of the bad financial choices is the car. After Jenn bailed him out of one car (that had HER name on it, so smart move there), he chose to go back to the same place he was with another car. And now, because he made that choice, he wants her to forgive the arrears because it makes it difficult for him with his new car? Ummmm...NO.
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1966Gal
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And yes, I'm sure the judge is.. and I'm sure he's tired of seeing you already.
+++++++++++
No, I doubt the judge is tired of seeing her. I bet he'll get tired of seeing her ex and his unwillingness to support his kids!
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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.
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JennyLynn
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<<No, I doubt the judge is tired of seeing her. I bet he'll get tired of seeing her ex and his unwillingness to support his kids! >>
Exactly.
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youngatheart
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Exactly. I'm not sure how it is Jenn's fault that HE isn't following the Court Order. But, whatever.
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PrincessJ
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[quote]<<No, I doubt the judge is tired of seeing her. I bet he'll get tired of seeing her ex and his unwillingness to support his kids! >>
Exactly. [/quote]
Dead on!
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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preemiemom
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[quote]And yes, I'm sure the judge is.. and I'm sure he's tired of seeing you already.
+++++++++++
No, I doubt the judge is tired of seeing her. I bet he'll get tired of seeing her ex and his unwillingness to support his kids! [/quote]
heh... Everyone is entitled to their opinion. My guess is, eventually, a judge will get tired of JL dragging her ex back to court over the almighty dollar.
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preemiemom
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[quote]Exactly. I'm not sure how it is Jenn's fault that HE isn't following the Court Order. But, whatever. [/quote]
Were his wages garnished? YES. Then he's "following" the order.
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MTmom
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PM - it's not JL dragging him anywhere. She doesn't even have to be there. This is the state CSE taking him for non-payment of support... and because of the amount, he is facing jail time. It's no different than CSE taking his drivers license or tax return.. they are enforcing the CSE order..
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MaritimeGuy
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Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 532
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For what it's worth I'm happy to see you drawing a line in the sand. Apparently your ex is so pathetic at managing his own affairs he can't even write his own e-mails. The man needs to grow up. It's not your responsibility to make that happen.
I agree that in light of his current financial situation you may choose to defer accruing interest on the arrearages (not sure if that's a word) but I would by no means forgive them. I expect there are some wonderful things you could do for your son with that money. Considering your ex's experience while he's not earning what he could be now he has the ability to down the road. Then he can start catching up.
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Cassie23
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Were his wages garnished? YES. Then he's "following" the order. (end quote)
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Sure but even if your wages are garnished YOU have the responsibility of the NCP to make sure your CS is paid and in FULL. DH changed jobs, he informed CSE, we got SEVERAL letters and payment stubs from them reminding him what his payment is and that he is supposed to make the payment in FULL. That he can't rely on the garnishment because it might not be right or might be too late. Even the NYS CS web site says that you have to continue to make the CS payment in full if you lose your job. That if you need a reduction due to a financial crisis- it is YOUR responsibility to seek a modification. Until a modification is given that CS is due in full every month.
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youngatheart
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Ummm, JENNY isn't dragging him to Court. DHS is. Child Support Enforcement. THEIR choice.
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youngatheart
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No, he isn't. Nor was he. The order is that he pay $X amount per month. That amount wasn't met. The payments were not made. he IS in contempt, which is why Child Support Enforcement filed the charges.
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JennyLynn
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Thanks.
I wouldn't mind knocking off interest in the least. I'm open to negotiation, but not the negotiation his friend sent me last night. I owe my son more than that, and I have to be strong for him.
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preemiemom
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[quote]PM - it's not JL dragging him anywhere. She doesn't even have to be there. This is the state CSE taking him for non-payment of support... and because of the amount, he is facing jail time. It's no different than CSE taking his drivers license or tax return.. they are enforcing the CSE order.. [/quote]
Umm.. no.. not exactly. SHE has contacted them. TWICE. Back last fall and again now. She initiated the action, they're just finishing what she started.
Trust me.. there's pages upon pages of postings on the subject of who she called, when etc etc etc.
I always find it amazing how quickly people rush forward to pat people on the back, but just as quickly forget the TRUTH. JL initiated this. Plain and simple.
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Cassie23
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Personally if JL stayed out of it entirely and didn't even go- I don't think he'd get jail time this time. I think they would give him a little time to get a lump sum amount to show in good faith, maybe rework what his new CS should be (I think they should do 40 hours a week/min. wage) and something each month for the rest of the arrears.
I don't think that he will be thrown in jail THIS TIME, even WITHOUT JL's testimony.
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preemiemom
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[quote]Thanks.
I wouldn't mind knocking off interest in the least. I'm open to negotiation, but not the negotiation his friend sent me last night. I owe my son more than that, and I have to be strong for him. [/quote]
Oh good god.. can you please knock off the Helen Reddy routine? Seriously... majorly nauseating. From the same woman who is all namby pamby.. "but I want to heellllppppp him". Barf...
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JennyLynn
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Maybe, maybe not. They are very strict in my county - there have been plenty of men put behind bars by my own attorney as well as CSE for owing less than what XH owes. They are very strict on the enforcement - I will be there and I'm trying to negotiate this b/c I DON'T want to see him be thrown in jail at this point, b/c at this point I DON'T think that's what he needs, and I don't think it will help.
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PrincessJ
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IMO, it doesn't matter who initiated it. It's something that NEEDED to be addressed and resolved.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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preemiemom
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mmhmm.. whatever. Karma's a big bytch.. that's all I gotta say. He made an offer that COULD set them off on a better path. Her ex will have that letter and her reply, in court. I don't think everyone should be jumping up and down and high fiving her just yet.
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youngatheart
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You're right. I wish that our case was in your county (where Ex lives now). As I think he would QUICKLY pay what he is in contempt of because MY ex cares 100% about saving face, and not facing jail time. However, in the county our case is in (where both you and I work), they are soooo lax on everything. Then there's the county where *I* live now, and they are totally anti-dad, as you've seen as of late. LOL...figures I'm in the county where I am.
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JennyLynn
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 31656
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Yeah, BM #1 is also in this county where we work and they're not near as proactive in enforcing the child support - his previous employer, while they did garnish a hundred or two every couple of months, didn't garnish anything for BM and CSE in her county did send the order. Not even until we went to court last time did they garnish for DS's CS.
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Cassie23
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/07/05
Posts: 14714
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I wonder if your ex having another child (the 'first' child) will work for him a far as being thrown in jail goes. Will the county be likely to throw him in jail knowing he has another kid to support (one that came first?)?
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MaritimeGuy
addict
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 532
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Around here if a company is in receipt of a garnishee and fails to act on it they become liable for the amounts owed.
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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He is playing you like a fiddle. DON"t fall for it. If you must respond at all, just say thank you for your note....and nothing more.
Your freaking [censored] ex is trying to get out of his arrearage any way he can AND he is trying to get out of his proper guideline support.
He can do whatever other people have to do when faced with a large financial obligation....REDUCE EXPENSES. Get rid of the car payment and any other luxury, non-necessity items. DONE!
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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There IS a limit to how much one can "downsize". You have to eat, you have to have a roof over your head.
I think it's funny... half the people who'd have the man living out of a cardboard box and eating ramen noodles the rest of his life would then be complaining it's an unsuitable environment to have the child in.
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cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
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what a sad situation...i can see how he has financially worked himself into a hole....i don't think you should forgive the arrears. it seems like things snowballed out of control for him. you struggled these years to provide for your child...if you can do it so can he.
maybe rather than forgiving the arrears you can make them not accrue interest and as long as he remains current on CS then the arrears will be paid when DS is 18.
i also didn't think he was paying his ex $214 per month.
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wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
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arvm
journeyman
Reged: 05/05/07
Posts: 88
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Uhhm, from reading the OP
In my case the car payment wasn't considered into my X#1's expenses. I even brought it up for him in court. The judge said that it was interesting that he was able to buy a new truck, but hadn't been providing any child support. We were separated for a year before this divorce.
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Redlegg
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26692
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How did they get on the wrong path, if he is trying to go down the right path or a better path now?
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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are all expendable items. We have no idea how he spends his other money, but $20 per day? He can buy Oscar Mayer and a loaf of bread and save $20 per day. There's nothing wrong with brown bagging it while you're struggling. And he can certainly delivery pizzas at night to bring in some extra cash. it's just a matter of what people are willing to do to help themselves. HE clearly doesn't want to do anything for himself...he expects JennyLynn to do that for him.
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youngatheart
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 09/03/05
Posts: 9394
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We make choices. You get a second job. You work overtime. You get a roommate. You car pool or get a bike. You cut the phone expenses. You don't go out. But, then, if he's working two or three jobs, he wouldn't have time for that. MANY of us do these thigns to keep current on our bills, or to cover for others who aren't covering bills they're obligated for. He can do it too.
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matilda
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/11/04
Posts: 2087
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[quote]There IS a limit to how much one can "downsize". You have to eat, you have to have a roof over your head.
I think it's funny... half the people who'd have the man living out of a cardboard box and eating ramen noodles the rest of his life would then be complaining it's an unsuitable environment to have the child in. [/quote]
The man spends over $600 a month on his car payment, insurance and telephone!! If you don't make much money then you get rid of the extras. He can take a bus or carpool. He can use a land line telephone. Why should Jenny and their son suffer so that dad can zoom around in a new car talking on his cell phone? Gee, let's see...cell phone or food for DS? Car payment or housing & clothes for DS? It's a no brainer.
The man is childish and selfish. What a great role model for their son. NOT!!
Your angriness of your posts makes me wonder if you know Jenny's ex because it's almost like you are rooting for him to win. It's either that or you are trying to get her to create a situation similar to what you have with your exH to justify that you are right. It's her situation and it's her decision to ultimately make. You shouldn't fault her just because she is finding the strength to stand up for herself and her son. Maybe you wouldn't be in the situation you are in if you stood up for yourself instead of playing the victim so much.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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Again.. all those things? Will end up being reasons he shouldn't have the kid. It's unsafe, he doesn't have adequate transportation, he doesn't have food.
If he's working two jobs, balancing two visitations when does he see his kids?
It's very easy to preach it.. have YOU lived it? From the standpoint of a NON custodial parent? Don't think so. I have.. with my ex. It ain't easy. I watch him struggle today. I literally see the worry and stress etch itself on his face. He's a 36 year old who looks 50.
At any point, custodial parents could turn these kids over to the other parent and pay THEM child support. If it's such a burden and they're "owed" blah blah blah. I don't see anyone offering that. Doubt I would.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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Not playing "victim". I'm not the one running to court every 6 months to get paid. Because it's sooooooo hard to survive. Barf.
I happen to not expect my ex to live in a cardboard box and eat ramen noodles the rest of his life to cut me a paycheck. I have a little more class than to subject another human being to poverty for another person's "best interests".
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matilda
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/11/04
Posts: 2087
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[quote]Again.. all those things? Will end up being reasons he shouldn't have the kid. It's unsafe, he doesn't have adequate transportation, he doesn't have food. [/quote]
And if any of these are true, how did Jenny cause them? She didn't, HE did by his poor choices. Why did he buy a new car instead of a used one that would have a much cheaper car payment? Why did he buy a new car instead of a new one that would have much cheaper car insurance payments? Why does he have to pay $100 for a cell phone instead of getting a prepaid phone just to use in emergencies?
None of these choices benefit the child only himself.
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matilda
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/11/04
Posts: 2087
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[quote]Not playing "victim". I'm not the one running to court every 6 months to get paid. Because it's sooooooo hard to survive. Barf.
I happen to not expect my ex to live in a cardboard box and eat ramen noodles the rest of his life to cut me a paycheck. I have a little more class than to subject another human being to poverty for another person's "best interests". [/quote]
Oooh, that makes you so special because you don't make him eat Ramen. And I am sure that you are helping make sure that he is a wonderful role model for your daughter. If you are lucky she will grow up to be just like him.
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PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
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Rather than downsize, he also has the option of working to his potential.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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Well.. the car... if he's deeply in debt too.. credit is ruined, he's likely got that so he re-establishes good credit. Something that COULD benefit the child. Needs braces? JL has no credit? Dad can, b/c he does. Plus, if you have a car payment, and no credit and no cash. What happens when clunker dies? no car.. no way to get car.
I can answer all these questions. I've heard the logic, had the debate.. and I agree with the arguments. I asked the same of my ex. And what he said makes sense. He's bankrupt. He had ONE more shot to get a car. A car he will now own forever b/c he can't finance another one for 7 years and he has NO cash.
You don't understand it b/c you haven't lived it and evidently you're not able to even TRY to see the other side of it.
Thankfully, I'm an open enough human being to try to understand it. And I'm fortunate enough to have lived it firsthand.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30206
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...where Susan's first response might be reasonable. Take the amount he is paying on arrears and table it for a few years. That lets him get out of the hole (or gives him no excuse to NOT get out of the hole), allows him to get out of Mommies house (which is benefitial to you and the child), and instead of getting HALF the arrears, you get them ALL, but you have to wait five years or so (which will STILL be shorter than you will see the $3000 anyway).
I am NOT excusing his behavior, but some people hit rock bottom and start digging.
I will guarantee this, if he goes to jail, you won't see a DIME of support while he is incarcerated (and the payments COULD be suspended till he gets out, that is becoming more and more prevelant), and he will lose his job, which will give him the perfect excuse to not pay you for a longer time.
I also have to agree that not even COUNTER OFFERING will make you seem difficult.
Also, if I recall, you said CSE asked you if you wanted jail time, and you said yes. They did the same to me. Then we went in front of a judge, and she was handed 10 yrs probation and $75 a month on over $7000 in arrears. Court MAY not go the way you think.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30206
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...don't usually come with an older car. Actually, on a newer car, the payments are cheaper because they take it out further give you a lower interest rate.
As for te cell phone, I do not recall what he does for a living, but it may be required, and it MAY have a contract (it probably DOES have a contract) which is more expensive to get out of than to stay in.
NOT defending him, but when you are in a hole, sometime you can't ge out without some understanding.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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youngatheart
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 09/03/05
Posts: 9394
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No. I've lived it as a CP. With children to raise. Doing it on my own. WITHOUT a live-in. WITHOUT family. I've had as many as 3 jobs at one time, STILL taken care of my kids as the CP at the same time and STILL made my bills.
Sometimes we had a lot of sandwiches. Sometimes we had a lot of Ramen. Seriously, this is NOT rocket science. I know the area he was living in prior to giving up this most recent residence to live with his mommy. There are all KINDS of places he could have worked without the need for a vehicle. Especially since Jenn moved to just a little ways from him. Does being wihtout a car suck? YES. But if it means providing for your kid and living up to your obligations because you now have an extra $500 a month? Give me a break.
Then you get a second job. You work in the daytime one job and in the evenings another job. I've NEVER had a problem having an employer work around my schedule with my children on the weekends for my 2nd jobs. I worked weekends the kids were with Ex, and any holidays they were with him. It kept me afloat months when I would have been in the hole. HE is in a situation with visitation where he can work not only weekends when he doesn't have his kids, but also evenings Monday-Thursday.
When you're in the hole, you work your a$$ of to get out of it and provide for your kids.
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MTmom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/07
Posts: 2711
Loc: MT
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"if he's deeply in debt too.. credit is ruined, he's likely got that so he re-establishes good credit. Something that COULD benefit the child. Needs braces? JL has no credit? Dad can, b/c he does."
Jl's credit wouldn't be tanked if he had paid his obligations under the divorce decree....
As for the child support topic in general.. you aren't a martyr. You're not the first CP to waive child support in any meaningful amount, and you won't be the last. I did the same thing.. and on top of that I just agreed to drive 200 miles a day for the next 4 weeks to "facilitate" my ds' relationship w/ his father.
Everyone does what they think is best for their kids.. you're opinion differs from JL's.. but neither of you are "wrong" - you just chose different paths for your respective families. I get that. But ease up on her, she's not the one who's failing to uphold their end of the bargain here.
The have a court order. He failed to comply. It's that simple. She tried to negotiate a beneficial settlement w/ him.. he wanted the milk AND the cow.. so no deal.
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Cassie23
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/07/05
Posts: 14714
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I agree- I don't think he will go to jail anyway. He has another kid that he IS supporting that was born first.
The courts are going to allow him to catch up, I think they should re-work his CS to fit a min wage job 40 hours a week. He could get TWO part time jobs working at a burger joint, gas station, etc. if he can't find ONE 40 hour a week job.
They will have him pay a min. amount each month towards arrears. As for dismissing the arrears that IS up to JL and I don't think she should dismiss ANY of the arrears even if she can get him to agree to less visitation and her having sole. Mixing this CS issue with custody is wrong in my eyes.
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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or others in her predicament say that the children were burdens. Where do you come off? You want to be an enabler for your ex, feel free, but since when does the rest of the world have to do things YOUR way? Heck, why should JennyLynn have to give him custody? Why doesn't she just pay his bills FOR him so he can have an easy life???? Makes sense??? right.
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MTmom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/07
Posts: 2711
Loc: MT
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[quote]I agree- I don't think he will go to jail anyway. He has another kid that he IS supporting that was born first.
The courts are going to allow him to catch up, I think they should re-work his CS to fit a min wage job 40 hours a week. He could get TWO part time jobs working at a burger joint, gas station, etc. if he can't find ONE 40 hour a week job.
They will have him pay a min. amount each month towards arrears. As for dismissing the arrears that IS up to JL and I don't think she should dismiss ANY of the arrears even if she can get him to agree to less visitation and her having sole. Mixing this CS issue with custody is wrong in my eyes. [/quote]
How does this "first child first" business work. PM - maybe you can help me here.
Does the first child support obligation come off the top of the NCP's income Before the 2nd calculation, or is it just an adjustment w/in the worksheet?
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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or a bus pass? Lotta people who cannot afford cars use them.
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matilda
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/11/04
Posts: 2087
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He already had a newer car that he didn't make payments on, so Jenny had to make up the payments/interest so it wouldn't be repossessed and further wreck BOTH of their credit. A new car depreciates about 20% the second you drive it off the lot. It is a lot smarter to buy a 1-3 year old vehicle that has already suffered the largest amount of depreciation, but still has many years of quality use left.
You are definitely right that I have never lived it personally because I am not stupid enough to put myself in that position. On the other hand I have helped counsel many people to improve their credit scores. Getting a credit card would have been less expensive, but would have helped maintain his credit score. Your justifications are weak at best, sorry.
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Cassie23
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/07/05
Posts: 14714
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YAH-- have you worked those 2 or 3 jobs without a car?
I think some type of transportation is a must. I know we have buses here, but they don't run all hours and they don't run on Sundays.
Have you worked 3 jobs during the SCHOOL year when you have primary custody of your children?
I think that would be very difficult to do. Not that he has primary custody of the kids, but I worked two jobs once- not even because I had to, I was leaving one and going to another--- those two jobs left me with NO time for my kids. They saw DH more than they ever saw me then.
The courts aren't going to care about his expenses anyway. They aren't going to tell him to get rid of his car. We can sit here and say he should, but I just disagree entirely with that. What happens if he has DS and he gets sick in the middle of the night? He has to run out and get him meds, etc. but he has no vehicle? Not having a vehicle will hurt more than it would help in concern to having two children.
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youngatheart
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 09/03/05
Posts: 9394
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In the state where JL and I live, the support he pays for the first child comes off the top of his gross income before they figure child support.
Well, it's a part in the child support computation, but that's essentually what it works out to. So, if he's making $2000 a month, and he is paying $230 a month for Child#1, then they figure child support with his income at $1770.
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PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
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As for te cell phone, I do not recall what he does for a living, but it may be required, and it MAY have a contract (it probably DOES have a contract) which is more expensive to get out of than to stay in.
---->He's either a bartender or waiter, can't recall which.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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RJ1
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/19/05
Posts: 5164
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I agree Cassie. Also, I see everybody's side. I don't think any of us are saying he is not in contempt...but...he has made SOME efforts to pay. I don't think any of us are saying he's not a dimwit...however...he is the child's Father.
What I get aggravated with JL about is she seems to come off as such a victim when her choices were hers to make. For example, the car issue. She took up the payments to help herself...not her ex. She didn't want her credit hurt further and it was a much better car than the one she had. I always shook my head over that decision...she had a PAID FOR car that her parents gave her. I never would have accepted something like that from my parents but she did as we each deal with things in our way. But...it was PAID FOR and she wasn't getting CS. So why in the world did she take up payments? She should have kept the car her parents gave her and saved that money. However, now she's saying she was "helping" her ex. Bull! She was helping herself under the guise of helping her ex. It was her choice...he owes her NOTHING for that transaction. I personally think it was a bad decision...but she can't go around saying she was helping her ex.
Then she claims to fame that she has offered to HELP her ex over and over. But she took him to court TWICE! That's not helping him. I would have more respect if she just said, "heck yeah he owes son CS and heck yeah I'm the one that got this process started"...instead of always saying the "state" is doing it. NO...the state is doing it because SHE ASKED THEM TO!
The little "I'm a perfect fairy princess" act just gets old to me.
However, I still think her ex owes it. I think her case would have been stronger if she had waited...accrued MORE back CS on the books, and THEN took him to court. And PM is right...judges WILL get tired of seeing them BOTH no matter who is at fault.
RJ
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youngatheart
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 09/03/05
Posts: 9394
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I disagree. I happened to have a car through my struggles financially. BUT...both of my places of employment would have enabled me to walk/ride a bike. Where he lived, this was totally an option.
We are sooo freaking spoiled in this country. Seriously. That we are unwilling to accept some inconveniences to provide for our children and live up to our obligations.
In answer to your question, YES, I've worked 2 jobs during the school year while I have my children. That's while still meeting their needs and getting them to soccer and scouts and other actvities. I worked the weekends and holidays the kdis were with their dad, and I worked the one night a week when we didn't have scheduled events. Before they were able to stay home alone that one night, I would trade babysitting with a friend, who was also a single mom.
NO, it hasn't been easy. It's taken me three years to dig myself out of that hole. But, you know what? I'll NEVER make the stupid decisions that got me into that hole again.
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PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
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"Perfect little fairy" act?
I don't see that of her at all. I see her as unassertive and unsure about a LOT of things, but I think she genuinely wants to do the right thing. Her heart is in the right place. I've always thought that of JL.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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Arden
old hand
Reged: 02/27/06
Posts: 858
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Maybe I read the letter from BFF Attorney at Large wrong, but I don't think he was saying he can't afford what he has now, plus meet his obligations. I read he was saying he can't meet these obligation while obtaining other things he doesn't have now. Such as his own place to live. To me he needs to prioritize his needs against his wants. Clean up the child support mess, which can be done quickly if he just does it. Then he can work toward affording his own place.
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RJ1
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/19/05
Posts: 5164
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What I mean is she acts like her hands are clean of anything and all she does is help him...I disagree. Along the way all her decisions help HER too. She wanted the car and she wanted to go to court...but she makes it seem different. I get totally mixed messages from her...
RJ
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youngatheart
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 09/03/05
Posts: 9394
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EXACTLY...with the deal Jenn made with him, he would be done with this arrearage in 6 months. In 6 months time, he could then look at what he can afford from there. And if he was SMART, he would work 2-3 jobs during those 6 months and save every extra penny to get himeself out of this hole.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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Stupid... okay. Again, you've never BEEN in this situation, you have NO idea how EASY it is to get there.
Tell you what. All you women who are soooo vigorously defending JL?
Why don't YOU try being a non-custodial parent, particularly a male one. See how it all works out for you, and how YOU do.
Amazing.. simply amazing. It's VERY easy to sit and judge something you don't have any idea how it works.. in reality.
As for the bicycle/bus pass suggestion.. that's just HYSTERICAL.
And I guarantee JL would be in court 5 minutes later demanding some visitation or custody schedule change b/c he didn't have appropriate transportation "for the benefit of their son".
Seriously.. You make me laugh.
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Redlegg
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26692
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You know, if the judges would quit ordering CS, no one would be in arrears. Its not his fault he can't pay his bills, we should do it like the subprime lenders, just bail them out. This guy knew what he owed, he made choices, the karma biting him is from these choices. JL may have facilitated the court appeaerances, but she did ot initiate them, he did that all by himself. Maybe she does go to court alot, so what, he needs to do what he needs to do. Hopefully the judge will get tired of seeing them. Put the guy in jail for a few months, see if that doesn't adjust his attitude. The third party, hmmm, whatever, her ex seems to talk to whomever he wants when he wants somethng, but now he is at a loss for words. I have zero sympathy for him. I paid CS for 4 years as the NCP just to make sure the ex had a decent chance to get a new start, oh well, life rough all over, and then you go get gas. Its time for Mr. EX to put up with cs or put out at for Uncle Bubba. I forgive him, but he still needs an attitude adjustment, the maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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[quote]"Perfect little fairy" act?
I don't see that of her at all. I see her as unassertive and unsure about a LOT of things, but I think she genuinely wants to do the right thing. Her heart is in the right place. I've always thought that of JL. [/quote]
Hmm... she wasn't unassertive and unsure of herself when she was lying her ass off on here trying to get custody away from mother #1 of child #1 all while her ex was suppposedly beating the crap out of her. yeah, that's unassertive and unsure. Takes a lot of balls to lie like that.
And most here KNOW she's a liar.. but buy every bit of these stories hook line and sinker. That part totally floors me.
But there is strength in numbers I suppose. Hitler had it too... didn't make him right.
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JennyLynn
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 31656
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RJ, you don't have to understand me, we don't know each other in real life. I understand your frustration, and that's OK - I know myself and I know the decisions I make are always with the best intentions for everyone involved, and that's all I need to know.
Regarding the car - NO, he did not have to go out and get something that expensive, but he did, and now he has to live with the car payment.
The cell phone bill - sure, he may be on contract. Is that something he wants to tell his son when he's older? Sorry son I didn't pay CS b/c I bought a brand new car and had a large cell phone payment. Beautiful.
Regarding the car insurance, he actually hasn't even HAD car insurance in months. As far as I'm aware, he still doesn't. But really is a nonissue.
Regarding the money to his daughter's mother - he no longer pays child support. He's *supposed* to pay half of her parttime daycare which is about $160 a month (per BM) and was sending her a check every so often but now owes her about $700.
I'm not a victim, and I've never made myself out to be one. But I've worked DAMN hard to take care of my child during all this mess and I've done a good job of doing so. I worked 2 jobs while going to school up until just a few months ago before I got my new job that pays more. I'd get a sitter at times and work overtime. I can very much remember searching through my apartment trying to find something unopened that I could return at Walmart just to have gas to be able to get to work. I am not financially well off by ANY means but I have something called integrity and so when it comes to my son? If I only had him 4 days a month? I'd be working 5 jobs to make ends meet if I had to. He's never had 2 jobs at once. He willingly told me he's worked a couple of shifts a week for the past several weeks. He has no work ethic - but I've seen his potential and I know he's smarter than he makes himself out to be, I've SEEN it. I KNOW he can do better, but I'm no longer his motivator, his wife, his mother, his punching bag, or his floor and I cannot and WILL NOT be responsible for the choices he has made.
I could write a book over everything I've given up for him, but in the end? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what I've done and it doesn't matter what he's done - this is about OUR CHILD and the fact that BOTH parents need to be taking responsibility for him. This isn't just about money - it's about being a FATHER. It's about my son deserving the best I can offer him. And that is what I try my best to do every day of my life.
He's in this situation b/c he put himself there. I can't dig him out of his own hole. I've tried and tried and tried negotiating with him, and what does he do? He waits until TWO days before trial, after over 18 months of being in this mess, to even try to discuss it with me. I've done my share - I've negotiated, I've worried and I've stressed and I've made myself SICK over trying to make this man happy and be the best mother I can do. I'm DONE. My ONLY focus is my son and it's quite apparent his priorities aren't the same. Therefor I'll keep doing what I'm doing and he can keep doing what he's doing. I'll stay strong and I'll continue to do what's best for my son, but in the mean time he will KNOW I can no longer be his doormat.
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preemiemom
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yack yack yack....
Please.... literally? You make me ill.
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youngatheart
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Try again. I've gotten to see how it works for NCPs. That's a lot of why my order was written the way it is. It's one of the reasons I took so much of a hit when I shouldn't have as far as finances are concerned.
He has options. The only option he seems interested in is the one where Jenn hands him what he wants.
Jenn and I have been over this backwards and forwards. MY initial stance was, "let him go to jail...seriously". But, Jenn is kind, and I understand her premise because I'm there with my ex as well. She'd rather find a way to work it out, but she's not (and I agree with her on this one) willing to give up everything.
If they can't come to an agreement, then a Judge will have to decide. But, I would NEVER suggest to Jenn that she should 100% give up the arrears or regular child support.
As far as his financial situation, he needs to figure it out as a responsible person would do. There ARE options to him. He doesn't have to take all of those options, he doesn't have to take most of those options, but he HAS options. The only one he's interested in, seemingly, is the one where he walks away free and clear.
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matart1
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ignore the letter - view it as a friend going to the bat for a friend....
maybe it is thought that a mutual friend will turn Jen into a better softy than the court mess and ex.
you do not have to respond except maybe to ask how that person is doing, the weather and "how about those Yankees..?"
then enjoy the rest of your day.
keep the divorce between the people it concerns.
you throw "well-meaning" friends into the mix and it will just ugly from here on out.
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Life is a long lesson in humility.
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preemiemom
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JennyLynn...
Would you drop all arrearages and waive any FUTURE child support, if your ex gave up rights.. visitation or otherwise.. to your son?
I am willing to guess the answer is YES, b/c you've said it here before.
And THAT is what makes me sick about you. You'd basically "sell" the boy to his father to get paid.. but if you didn't have to give the boy to the father at ALL you'd gladly give up the money. You've posted it here before. So I already know the answer.
So all this bullshyt about child's best interest is just that. It's bullshyt. Child support is the ransom YOU expect for ALLOWING your ex (that you despise) access rights to the child.
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Sherron
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"There IS a limit to how much one can "downsize". You have to eat, you have to have a roof over your head."
True, but a vehicle payment over $300 a month? Me thinks there is a wee little room to down size, no? My payment is below $230/month for a 2006 car, 2006 as in "reliable transportation", and frankly, I didn't need one that new.
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JennyLynn
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Here's the thing - downsizing? Working a second job? Sorry, but he should've started doing that a year ago. He knows what his obligations are, instead of downsizing he's upsizing, instead of working 2 jobs he's hardly working 1. His choices. And I won't take responsibility for them.
PM and anyone else can make as many excuses as they want - that's what he WANTS - he's always the victim, it's the same with his mother. And they are both who they are b/c of the choices they've made.
Like I've said over and over again - I've bent over backwards for this man for years. It's time I put my big girl panties on and stop enabling him, and stop letting him walk all over me. He's doing a disservice not only to himself and me, but especially to his son. He's the one losing out in this mess.
Edited by JennyLynn (06/25/08 01:39 PM)
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preemiemom
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How bad does your credit suck?
Guy has two repo's.. late payments. You think he got a 2.9% rate?
doesn't take much to get an overblown payment. If it's "used" the term may be limited.
Love how everybody professes to know for certain what this guy does or doesn't qualify for or what he's paying.
How does JL know he doesn't or does have insurance? If he has a note? He HAS to. It's a requirement of the LIENHOLDER. Period. Otherwise? No loan. Period.
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preemiemom
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[quote]He's the one losing out in this mess. [/quote]
No.. he's not. Are you providing for him? Does he have clothes on his back? A roof over his head? Food in his mouth? yes to all those things?
What's he "losing out on"?
Oh, let's see. A healthy relationship with his father? Maybe. A mother who isnt' constantly calculating, formulating, worrying about court dates? Definately.
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matilda
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/11/04
Posts: 2087
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[quote]Stupid... okay. Again, you've never BEEN in this situation, you have NO idea how EASY it is to get there.
Tell you what. All you women who are soooo vigorously defending JL?
Heck, you know nothing about my life, so you are making insinuations that fit your needs. I live with my SO who is an NCP. He's had a hard life and had to deal with a large arrearage. Instead of shirking his responsibilities he's had to better himself. And even though he doesn't make a lot of money, he pays his CS monthly, on time, and the full amount. Does he have to sacrifice to do it? Yes, but it is his obligation to do so for the next 3 years.
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youngatheart
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Here's the deal...let's say he's making $2000 a month, as the email suggests ($100 per shift, 5 shifts per week). GET A SECOND JOB!!! He has monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday as well as every other weekend. Get a job at 7-11 (they are ALL hiring here and they are on every corner here) for $11 an hour (where they start). Let's say he works 6 hours a day, 4 days a week and every other weekend for 6 hours per day (Friday, Sat, Sun). That's $726 every two weeks. If he stays with mommy for the 6 months Jenn is asking for repayment of 1/2 the arrears, working that schedule, then in 6 months he will have saved up more than $8000, in addition to having the $300 a month in savings from paying off the arrears. AND he's gotten out of paying half of his arrears.
I seriously don't get your problem. Sure, the guy has money problems. He's gotten himself into a hole. MANY people have been in a hole, Jenn included. We work our way out...without demanding that everyone forgive us our obligations.
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MaritimeGuy
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Posts: 532
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[quote]yack yack yack....
Please.... literally? You make me ill. [/quote]
So why in God's name would you continue to follow the thread if it made you ill?
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1966Gal
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Great post, Young.
Jenny, respond to "friend" with that. Not how you are going to let him out of anything, but offer a few suggestions on how he could get by...quoting Young. That should shut him up.
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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.
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preemiemom
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NOT that easy to get a 2nd job.
Have YOU tried to get a job at 7-11 Matilda?
I can tell you, my ex has. Has been trying for a year and a half. My ex stepfather in law was a manager there.
You don't just get to pick and choose your hours.
Let's take my ex.
Works 7am to 5pm. Hour commute to work. Do you get a job near home? Or near work? When do you sleep?
MOST places where you would want to work part-time, particularly retail (ie: Home Depot, Lowes.. pick one, any one)? Want you to work WEEKENDS! ALWAYS Saturdays. Not every other weekend, Sundays but not Saturdays.. not Wednesday nights.. or not Thursday nights every other week.
Go ahead.. try it.
I can vouch for the vast searching my ex has done. He had a paper route. 2am to 6am. Sleeping like 2 hours a day. Spending as much on gas to get to and from the route as he did making money on the route.
It sounds simple in theory.. try it out in real application.
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PrincessJ
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....why can't he go back to banking and then pick up a couple of evening shifts at the bar/restaurant? Wasn't he in banking and then decided to "diwnsize" his career?
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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JennyLynn
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Do you really think I should respond?
My mom forced me to promise her this morning I wouldn't. :) She said I'm too emotional and he always does this...and he does. He waits til the last minute and he knows I'll let him walk all over me...but not this time, seriously.
I did respond after I got the message last night, all I said was "No. That does not meet my approval. I'll see you in court on Thursday."
He did text me today and asked if I got the email, I told him yes, and that we can let the judge handle it tomorrow.
He said "why? I agreed" - and I explained that I will NOT agree to the terms of his arrangement and I will not forgive all the arrears. Obviously I couldn't say much b/c it's impossible to text an entire conversation. He hasn't responded. I've TOLD him I am willing to negotiate - my brain is wiped out today, if he has any suggestions I'm all ears. But I don't see that happening - he wants me to do the work.
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JennyLynn
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<<....why can't he go back to banking and then pick up a couple of evening shifts at the bar/restaurant? Wasn't he in banking and then decided to "diwnsize" his career?
>>
He got fired, he did work there for 3 years. Several promotions. He really was great at what he did. After I left, he stopped meeting his "goals"...and then there's the sexual harassment issue...
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PrincessJ
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I wouldn't respond.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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youngatheart
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Funny, it's worked for me. It's worked for other people I know.
I've never had a problem with a retail place allowing me to work every other weekend. I've never had a problem getting hired at one of these places.
You work 8 hours at one job (9 hours with a lunch), 4-6 hours at another job, and you still have enough time for a full nights sleep. Though, it does suck, SO THE f*CK WHAT?!?!? It's what you do in the short-term to make things better in the long term.
Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I've done it!
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PrincessJ
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And, really, he should have attacked the debt head on a LONG time ago. he shouldn't have waited until it was so huge, it was unmanageable. And now he has a 3rd party trying to urge JL to just make it go away. Nah...times up, buddy. You created this mess. Deal with it.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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1966Gal
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Nah, don't respond. Let it go to court.
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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.
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JennyLynn
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That's what I'm thinking.
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youngatheart
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You remember the nicotine patch issue? I'm yours today...don't you DARE get in a p*ssing match with him, or I will go pick up your mom and we will hold your hand all night...
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matilda
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/11/04
Posts: 2087
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I wouldn't respond either. By you responding too many times it is a sign of weakness. One of my father's good friends was a former CEO of Kmart. One of his favorite quotes was when negotiating, "Whoever speaks first will lose." That him dwell on it for awhile and wonder about the silence. Silence is a powerful tool.
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Redlegg
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Does JL have the power to make this go away or is the state doing it now? It may not be her decision to let it go. Where was his compassion over the whole time, where was his concern. Lets just say its not even about the child, how about manning up for a debt that is owed. You can't get blood from a rock, but if the rock tries, you can't fault the rock. What has this guy done to help himself, what does any person do when they have to support a family, why does he need a special note now? He got himself into it, and I feel for him, but he is a big boy and he was big enouhg to decide what to do with his time and money then, he can reap the benefits now. From the sounds of it, someone knows an illegal alien who seems to be doing better than this guy, whats up with that. Is that a problem with this country, or that guy?
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JennyLynn
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LOL thanks sweetie!
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matilda
Pooh-Bah
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Posts: 2087
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YH, I think we need to just accept the fact that Preemie is a huge enabler of her EXH. She will always make excuses for his behavior/choices. Just because she wants to continue to be an enabler doesn't mean JL has to continue to be one as well.
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PrincessJ
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From the sounds of it, someone knows an illegal alien who seems to be doing better than this guy, whats up with that.
---->LOL! Good point!
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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MTmom
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JL - DO NOT RESPOND TO THAT EMAIL AGAIN. :)
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JennyLynn
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I'm not! He doesn't have email access at home anyway. That's why he texted me to ask if I got the email, he didn't know I responded!
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ssmom79
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"Why don't YOU try being a non-custodial parent, particularly a male one. See how it all works out for you, and how YOU do."
_______________________________________________________
OK now I'm laughing...seriously, you want me to go out and have an operation to become a man just so I can say I've been there to experience this??? This coming from someone who offers mucho advice to parents with teens to which she has no experience?
Well I HAVE been there. I've been with an EOW Dad working two jobs to support his kids when they are with him and when they are with their Mom. I've been with a guy who couldn't afford to buy anything except Hamburger Helper or *insert box meal here*. I spent two years with him trying to get out of the debt SHE left him with, and we're talking MORE than $6000.00, all while still paying out $1250 per month in child support. So I have been there, I have lived it, and I know with a little hard work and perseverance you CAN get out. JL's ex has spent so long getting OUT of his predicaments, he doesn't WANT to deal with any of them.
And why would he? He's been able to weasel out of everything so far, so JL should fully expect him to try every trick under the sun to get his way. The only way to stop this cycle is to put your foot down and keep it down. Period.
And since it's her life, I guess she can decide what's best for it. Even if some people don't agree. Even if some people are right and she's wrong. I said it before, no one will be able to change her mind except her. So why keep on for pages and pages "discussing" it?
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preemiemom
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No it's called being a human being.. and not viewing one's ex as a paycheck..or our children as collateral. Nor do I have a wish to ex my ex out of my child's life.
I'm very comfortable with my positions/values. And I'm quite sure at the end of 19 years in my case, my life will have been a LOT less stress and angst filled than JL's.
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Sherron
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"I've been with a guy who couldn't afford to buy anything except Hamburger Helper "
Hamburger Helper? I'm jealous... I can't afford the hamburger...Tuna Helper is much cheaper in the long run...
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Sherron
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"And I'm quite sure at the end of 19 years in my case, my life will have been a LOT less stress and angst filled than JL's."
Or, you may just wake up from your martyr life and realize what an idiot you've been for being an enabler to your ex and allowing him to walk all over you... let's see what your dd will learn from that...
Btw, can you loan me some money? 10k should do it. Oh, and I can't really afford to pay you back, but I promise to do the best I can and if and when I can send you a $20, I sure will. So, how about it?
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preemiemom
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My CHILD is not for SALE.
I don't feel like a matyr.. I don't feel "gyped". And b/c I don't EVER intend to drag my daughter into the financials of her father and I, I can't IMAGINE how she would know.
Jesus Christ.. what is wrong with you people?
ETA: What MATTERS is the chld's RELATIONSHIP with her father. NOT how much he pays for one.
I had this conversation with my gentleman friend at lunch today. Divorced guy.. adult child. All the positions of most of you definately did NOT come as a surprise. Although mine did. I have infinitely more class in his eyes. I would agree.
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ssmom79
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"This coming from someone who offers mucho advice to parents with teens to which she has no experience?"
_______________________________________________
This was wrong of me to say. You don't necessarily have to have raised a teen to offer advice. I just wanted to apologize for being snarky.
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PrincessJ
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I can't afford the Hanburger, but the Helper is pretty good.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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ssmom79
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Funny, most people with class don't go around telling others that they have it...it's really not that classy. But hey, if you want to feel superior and classier than the strangers on this forum, I hope you have a great life.
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matilda
Pooh-Bah
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Posts: 2087
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[quote]Funny, most people with class don't go around telling others that they have it...it's really not that classy. But hey, if you want to feel superior and classier than the strangers on this forum, I hope you have a great life. [/quote]
It's a sign of an unhappy person who has to brag a lot. They have to build up their own self worth by seeming that they are better than others.
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JennyLynn
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Bingo matilda. :)
Btw - I spoke to XH. He's agreeing to the terms of my proposal. At least that's what he says today, we'll see how it goes in court tomorrow.
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MaritimeGuy
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Posts: 532
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[quote]Funny, most people with class don't go around telling others that they have it...it's really not that classy.[/quote]
Damn...I was just about to tell you all how much class I have...
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MaritimeGuy
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My hope is whatever his motivation may be he follows through this time. Like I said everyone wins when he starts making the effort to support his son both financially and with his time. I really do hope it works out.
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matilda
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LOL!!:)
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Cassie23
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PM- you have something that NOT all CP's have- the ability to see the other side because you have been on the other side.
Do I think JL's ex not paying CS is RIGHT? NO. Do I think it's right that some CP's don't contribute financially to their children and they aren't held responsible in the least? No.
I also can see both sides, because I have a DH who has ALWAYS paid CS on time, every time, but BM has worked $5k/year jobs and has had 2 more children with 2 more men and didn't until recently get a real job.
She was living off CS for a time, living off of state aid for several years---- no one forced her to make the $20k/year she USED to make. when she went to court for MORE CS from DH- she got it even though she wasn't working and wasn't contributing nothing towards that child. Fair? No.
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JennyLynn
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I hope the same, thanks for your support.
I'm not expecting him to meet his financial obligations, alll I have to go by is his history, and that isn't saying much.
But you never know.
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matilda
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/11/04
Posts: 2087
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Stay tough!! He might still be looking for an out. His "lawyer" might have prompted him to agree, then ask for extra considerations tomorrow. Be prepared for anything to happen.
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RJ1
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About the enabler part...just because JL wins in court does NOT mean she'll ever see a dime. I bet it's a pattern forming...he won't pay, she takes him to court, he still won't pay, she takes him to court. So how is refusing to go through all that mess with ultimately no CS money coming in enabling the ex??? So he gets 15 million contempts of court against him, may spend time in jail, but he still won't pay! JL, or any one else, can't make ANYONE pay up! So I guess after 15 million court dates JL will show him eh?
I will never forgive CS! I think she's making a grave mistake...and she's getting nothing in return for that! And after court she still won't get any regular money (my guess anyway).
There is a stopping point and JL will reach it one day.
But I will never think stepping away from the CS situation as "enabling" my ex. Because ultimately I can't make him do anything he doesn't want to do. If anything, by me not stepping into the court mess, I save my sanity...which is more valuable to me than the piddly amount of CS he's supposed to pay.
And in my opinion by JL forgiving CS...THAT is enabling him more than anything.
RJ
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JennyLynn
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He doesn't have a lawyer - ohhh you mean his "friend" LOL. :)
I'll be prepared for anything.
Thanks!
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MaritimeGuy
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Posts: 532
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[quote]I'm not expecting him to meet his financial obligations, alll I have to go by is his history, and that isn't saying much.
But you never know. [/quote]
Like most things in life I think the best way to approach it is plan for the worst and hope for the best.
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JennyLynn
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<<Like most things in life I think the best way to approach it is plan for the worst and hope for the best. >>
Exactly.
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RJ1
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As a side note...I hope my ex isn't reading this post...he may think me suing him will reduce his unpaid back CS by half. Court would seem pretty lucrative to my ex...
50/50 would eliminate all this. Wish my ex could do it...I need the break! Love my child...but I need a break...
RJ
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JennyLynn
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LOL, how old is your child again?
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JennyLynn
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Btw...just out of curiousity I calculated the child support based on him working a 40 hour work week making minimum wage, vs. what I make on the Oklahoma child support calculator. He'd only have to pay about $270/month based on that - $110 of which is actual child support, the rest of which would be his share of daycare expenses.
Interesting. (not far from what I agreed to have him pay, which is $300)
Edited by JennyLynn (06/25/08 03:51 PM)
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RJ1
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According to son, he's nine months away from 9. lol Isn't it funny how when you are young, you want to be old...and when you are old, you want to be young. He turned 8 in March.
RJ
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RJ1
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And the little booger is already talking about what he wants for Christmas. ACK!
RJ
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JennyLynn
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 31656
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My son is too! Thtat's so cute. He told me yesterday he wants a Transformers Skateboard. The child is 3!
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elliesmom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 8835
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I don't know. You can vilify the mediator all you want, but underneath the BS he has a point. As a child of divorce like Mr.wordymediator I can assure you your son cares only about 1 thing - having a close loving relationship with his father. He doesn't give a sh!t if his dad is responsible financially or otherwise. Where you choose to place this need of your son's in you priority list is entirely up to you. But I am confident of one thing - you will never make this guy the responsible support payor you want him to be. Not with jail, not with forgiving arrears, NOTHING.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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Stupid... okay. Again, you've never BEEN in this situation, you have NO idea how EASY it is to get there.
------------->and you aren't in that situation and you don't know how easy it is to make SURE you don't get there.
Tell you what. All you women who are soooo vigorously defending JL?
Why don't YOU try being a non-custodial parent, particularly a male one. See how it all works out for you, and how YOU do.------------->WTF does being a Male NCP have to do with this? How about being a MOM that's a NCP an ordered to pay over 1K in child support for 1 child...... I've been there... I've DONE it...... I've been in those shoes and I don't in the least feel sorry for his ass...... HIS FAULT.. PERIOD.
Amazing.. simply amazing. It's VERY easy to sit and judge something you don't have any idea how it works.. in reality.
----------->I know how it works.... for 10 years I knew how it worked.... I knew I had to pay 1K a month and guess what... I did......... I was late 1 time in 10 years and that was JUNE of 07 because HE said he would get it when he came by. Other than that...... never late... never missed...... It's a [censored]... but you have to budget... AND there were times I worked 2 jobs so I could do it....
As for the bicycle/bus pass suggestion.. that's just HYSTERICAL.------------>why..... you suggested a taxi the other day in a town that has no taxi's..... PEOPLE use the bus system regularly... or subways.... I know many people who live in San Fran and NY and don't even OWN or want a car....
And I guarantee JL would be in court 5 minutes later demanding some visitation or custody schedule change b/c he didn't have appropriate transportation "for the benefit of their son".------------->hell, he doesn't exercised his visitation as it is.
Seriously.. You make me laugh.
-------------->ditto.
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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Then stop reading and go do something constructive....
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jil_stevens
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/31/06
Posts: 3893
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My one question would be if PM's ex is working that many hours that he doesn't have the time for a part-time job, why can't he pay child support? He should be able to do something.
And as for the bus idea? I REALLY wish that I could ride the bus everywhere, LOL. I have a LONG commute and it would be fantastic. Instead I have to drive about 3/4 of the way to get to the train station to take me the rest of the way in so I don't have to mess with traffic.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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[quote]My one question would be if PM's ex is working that many hours that he doesn't have the time for a part-time job, why can't he pay child support? He should be able to do something.
----------->> He is a SALARIED employee. He works in a service industry. He makes $55K a year. I went through his budget previously here. With what he makes, what he DOES pay in child support, having no cell, yes he has a car payment.. he had no cash, and has NO credit, paying NO other debt other than the car and insurance, he has about $200 a MONTH to live off of. For food, clothing, medicines, and add-ons for the first child (ie: medicines, co-pays).
What he pays in rent is the norm here for what he's renting. He rents a ROOM in his mother's house. Has a little kitchenette.. 1 stove burner.. a teeny bathroom. His other daughter sleeps in a room elsewhere in the house when she's there.
He's not going to live anywhere for free. Not going to happen. He's paying his parents for pete's sake.
Neither he, nor I, created the cost of living here, nor the pay scale. He is uneducated, and has certain issues (can't think on the fly well, has difficulty with reading comprehension, can't do basic math without a calculator, has memory issues). He is limited in income potential. I pushed him to go to school... he "can't" for the aforementioned reasons. It's a miracle he graduated high school.
Not trying to make "excuses" for him. I married him that way and I accepted him that way. Just as I accept him that way in divorce. I couldn't make him into someone else married (nor did I try) and I can't now (nor will I try).
But when push came to shove, he'd give us his last morsel of food, the clothes off his back, and whatever housing he could provide to make sure we were okay.
It is enough for me to know that. I don't need an inflated child support amount, that given the REAL math (like child support is based on income WITHOUT any taxes.. that's 20% of your income you don't have.. how fair is that??) would be totally unrealistic to begin with. And to have arrearages stack up on that amount makes no sense. It would never get paid. Period.
I just choose to accept what things are and put more energy into improving MY life and MY circumstances for the benefit of the child I created. Ultimately, I am responsible for the commitments I have made, which were to create a child and to be her custodial parent.
But, I will grant, not everyone sees it that way.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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I don't believe I've EVER suggested someone use a taxi. Please point that out, I'd love to see it.
Yes people in New York.. CITY... take cabs. Heck half of them don't even know HOW to drive.
You CANNOT get around Long Island in a taxi, or on a bus, consistently. Hell, you can't even use the Long Island Rail Road to move around. A 40 minute car ride to my job (no traffic... assuming straight drive at 65mph) would take 3 1/2 HOURS by train.. with 3 different connections.
Taxis? Please...
I live 15 miles from ex. Ex's first wife lives about 25 miles. They do exchanges 3 days a week. The only transport she does is picking up on Sunday nights.. b/c THOSE days she happens to be driving by his house.
As for JL's ex.. he IS taking his visitation, although she's previously suggested limiting it or eliminating it for less or no money from him.
I realize you have issues with remembering what people post, but she did, and NOT that long ago. December? January?
Using a child as a bargaining chip is JUST as wrong as being a "deadbeat" parent. That's dalled blackmail frankly and it's illegal. They just don't prosecute custodial parents who do it to non-custodial parents. Wish they did... ex's first wife would get nailed for it too.
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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She laughed at my bicycle/bus pass suggestion? What a )(*^&%&^##$
I'll have you (her) know that my son, who is now an ADULT...and could very well be a father if he chose to be careless....gets every fricking place he wants/needs to go using a bicycle and a bus pass. He has ZERO interest in obtaining his license or getting a car. No matter where he needs to be, he merely looks up what bus/light rail lines serve the area and plans his route.
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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that for the most part, most people stay OUT of that position, so I'm guessing that it's easier to take steps to stay out of it, than it is to get there. :)
As for your other suggestion....well, that's just plain stupid. So you've had your vagina removed and a p enis installed so that you could know what it is like to be a non-custodial man? How interesting. Honestly, I'd prefer to hear more about your experiences.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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Actually I'd say more people are IN that position than people would like to think.
As for the bus suggestion. It's not a viable option here. I mean, just totally thoroughly the idea wouldn't even cross your mind whatsoever. Well, unless you wanted a $7 an hour at the local Mickey D's. That doesn't pay $50grand a year.
No, I've been married to one and had 2 other long term relationships with them. I've bailed an NCP out of jail for non-payment. I never said anything about trading in my vagina for a dick.
I find it interesting that all of this line in the sand, standing up for our rights doesn't necessarily seem to get many folks anywhere. I think, for the true deadbeat (like JL showcases her ex to be), they're going to be a deadbeat today, and tomorrow and probably were when they met the people they had more children to be deadbeats over.
The "system" is punitive, it's not corrective.
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KrazyKat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/05/07
Posts: 1714
Loc: Somewhere in the Middle
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Replying in general...
A person doesn't change all of the sudden during/after divorce/seperation. If a person had their head in the sand before the divorce/seperation, they're going to have their head in the sand afterwards as well.
They aren't going to miraculously change unless they themselves have the ambition/will to make a change. There are NOT that many people who are willing to make a change.
You know the old saying, "You can't teach an old dog new tricks". Well, same could be said for a lot of people too.
It's amazing to me how many people think that they can/will change another person and when it just doesn't happen as often as people would like it to, they don't understand why.
If people truly assessed their own situations and history with the "other" person, they'd realize that person is the same as when they were together. You, (meaning in general you) were just more tolerant and forgiving of the behaviors at the time.
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If you have a problem, build a bridge and get over it!
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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In the post, from the other night on my WWYD you said this:
"The RESPONSIBLE thing to do would be to demand the keys, or to call her a cab.."
That was assuming MY town had cabs.... which they do NOT. But you "laugh" at the thought of taking a cab or bus....
WTF......
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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OH MY STARS... I AM IN F*CKING TEARS OVER THAT POST MELODY!!!!!!! Vagina removed and penis inserted...... ROFL!!! Classic!!!!
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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[quote]But I will never think stepping away from the CS situation as "enabling" my ex. Because ultimately I can't make him do anything he doesn't want to do. If anything, by me not stepping into the court mess, I save my sanity...which is more valuable to me than the piddly amount of CS he's supposed to pay.
And in my opinion by JL forgiving CS...THAT is enabling him more than anything.[/quote]
Very good observations RJ!!
They are continuing the same cycle of behavior they probably did married. He does what he wants, she acquiesces for a while, then "stand tough", he "agrees".. not really meaning any of it and does what he wants anyway and the cycle begins all over again.
The cycle has already repeated itself here in the last 6-9 months. Don't pay.. JL keeps track.. wonders and frets what to do.. eventually decides to do something.. feels guilty she did... ex tries to make conciliatory offers to mend his bad ways (financially).. she wavers on what to do/not do... comes here.. gets strong... something is defined... ex behaves briefly.. goes back to status quo... rinse and repeat.
And she didn't gain anything out of it. BUT it cost her.. time, energy, increase in her anxiety level, who knows what else.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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yes, I laugh at the thought of using a CAB as a PRIMARY source of DAY TO DAY transportation to and from however many jobs it takes to pay child support. HERE.
Now that I've addressed that FOUR freaking times, think it'll sink through now?
Oh, btw? When you're referring to potential DUI.. that's the standard thinking.. take the keys.., call a cab. It's even an advertising campaign for christ's sake. One might want to learn the meaning of "turns of phrase".
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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[quote]OH MY STARS... I AM IN F*CKING TEARS OVER THAT POST MELODY!!!!!!! Vagina removed and penis inserted...... ROFL!!! Classic!!!! [/quote]
Yes. Sad. Really. That the ONLY way a woman could POSSIBLY understand or be sympathetic is by removing their genitalia and replacing it with the male version.
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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You act like you've been there done that... you have NO F*CKING clue what it's like to have to pay CS..... why? Because the first child you gave up and the second child you aborted...... you have never walked on those shoes as a NCP who had to pay CS...... I don't want to hear jack crap from your rambling ass because you have NFC.
JL is doing the best she can...period. You jump on her day on day because you feel superior to everyone and that you have lived it.. done it.... (is there anything you haven't accomplished yet?)......
I CALL BS.... Until you physcially have to PAY CS on your own or are ordered to pay it... you don't know anything... PERIOD.
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KrazyKat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/05/07
Posts: 1714
Loc: Somewhere in the Middle
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JL comes here consistently "WISHING", "HOPING", "PRAYING" that her EX will finally "DO SOMETHING RIGHT" for her son. She constantly says she wants to "HELP" him, that she "CARES" for him, etc.
If that's the case? Why consistently [censored] and moan and take him to court over money?
He never "DID THE RIGHT THING" while they were married. Which she has stated time and time again. As a married couple she says they were in "DEBT up to their eyeballs".
The man hasn't changed one iota since they divorced. Yet she keeps professing she wished he "WOULD CHANGE", "DO THE RIGHT THING", "TAKE CARE OF HIS SON".
He didn't do that while they were married. He didn't take care of his DD or their son together while they were married. (How many times have we heard how JL had to do it all while ex did nothing) It should come as no suprise that he's NOT doing it now either.
It's the same pattern as before. And until one of them changes the pattern, the cycle is going to continue repeating itself with no end in sight.
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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CSE is doing this... JL can not control that CSE is taking him to court.
When payments go through the court, if the person does not pay.... or pays short... CSE steps in.... You can't just say "Oh NO, that's fine....."....... So everyone needs to stop blaming JL for this........ CSE is doing their job.
Our CS was never through CSE.. I paid him directly.... so if I stopped paying him... HE would of had to initiate it...... NOT CSE.... but again..... JL's is through the court...... Every state works differently...... but CSE handles deadbeats who do not pay.... each time, she has had no control over the outcome... and in reality... she doesn't have control on this one either..... I would let the judge handle it.......
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KrazyKat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/05/07
Posts: 1714
Loc: Somewhere in the Middle
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I know how CSE works. My very own case is handled through the CSE.
This time the case was initiated by the CSE for the arrearages and lack of CS payments. However, JL is also stating she can make statements and plead her wants to the judge as well.
Her posting of what she "thinks" is fair and what she will propose to her ex are just not clearly in her son's best interest but of her OWN best interest.
Custody should never be used as a tool for money and that is exactly what she proposed to her Ex in order to make a deal before she got to court with CSE. (IN which she truly doesn't even have to go. CSE handles the $$ portion without you)
So, yes CSE did initiate the court date. (that's a fact) However, JL is only adding FUEL to the fire. And that, is what many people have a problem with.
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If you have a problem, build a bridge and get over it!
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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What does dragging an adoption and an abortion into it have to do with anything whatsoever? Totally irrelevant and said solely to hurt. I'm a-ok with my decisions in those regards, but nice try.
No, I haven't been ordered to pay child support. My ex was blackmailed into paying child support when they had basically 50/50 and undid a waiver solely b/c of my existence in his life.
I wrote the checks. I worried where the money was coming from for the 50% of our marriage that my ex was unemployed entirely.
I got the "mail" with the itemized bills. Addressed.. TO ME. Not to my ex. To me. She knew damn good and well "he" wasn't paying it, the money wasn't coming from him, it was coming from ME.
So, I may not have been the one with the name on the docket, sure as heck felt like I was the one ordered to pay it since I was the one paying it.
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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Custody should never be used as a tool for money and that is exactly what she proposed to her Ex in order to make a deal before she got to court with CSE. (IN which she truly doesn't even have to go. CSE handles the $$ portion without you
------------->I disagree.... my ex agreed to give me FULL custody if I waived CS... and I said DONE DEAL! Our custody was done on CS issues... he didn't want to have to pay me a dime in CS.... and I didn't hesitate.. cause my situation wasn't about the $$ but about having our daughter home...... This man (JL's ex) is NOT taking his visitation like it's ordered... what she has offered is what he is taking right now..... She can't make him parent... just like I couldn't make my ex parent.... My ex sold his daughter on his own and I gladly accepted. Who's to say that JL's son is going to be hurt by daddy not being there 24 * 7, he's not now... so what's the problem?
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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but you didn't "have" to pay... if that check didn't go out... your ass wasn't in the sling for it... again... YOU HAVE NFC.. you have not been in those shoes.... period... you can say you have and in your own little 6 inch universe "think" you've been there... but you haven't.. period.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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Nooo, she has previously said she'd gladly waive child support for him to walk away entirely. That's different. Entirely different.
And in the other thread, you stated (as you stated months ago) that you'll likely take him to court (after you "wait the year) for $1,000 a month. Ironically, the same amount you were paying to him.
And yes, I know I know.. it's to replace the college fund. Irrelevant... You're labeling it child support, as the $135 a month is currently labeled in your order. You'd be looking for "child support". So you merely temporarily waived it in order to get what you wanted. Funny tactic.. that's exactly what ex's first wife did. Except she got a house out of the deal. THen once she'd gotten what she wanted and waited sufficient time.. she changed the rules, just like you're proposing to do to YOUR ex.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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[quote]but you didn't "have" to pay... if that check didn't go out... your ass wasn't in the sling for it... again... YOU HAVE NFC.. you have not been in those shoes.... period... you can say you have and in your own little 6 inch universe "think" you've been there... but you haven't.. period. [/quote]
Hmm... I assure you my universe is bigger than 6 inches. And you're right.. my husband would just have been in jail. With me sitting in a hospital.. or at home with a then-sick child.
I felt JUST as much responsibility to provide for that child as HE did. That's why **I** shortened MY working sabbatical and left OUR child to ensure she DID get supported.
Her father didn't. I did.
So you can tell me how "not responsible" I was. I assure you, I was.
But you can insert another post filled with expletives and whatnot. Tick tock tick tock.
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KrazyKat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/05/07
Posts: 1714
Loc: Somewhere in the Middle
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You can disagree all you want with me. In a courtroom a JUDGE has never mingled CS and Custody. It's always handled as seperate issues. Everyone on this board makes statements about that fact every day.
If you want to handle it as a joint issue outside of the courtroom, then that's your perogative. It's a fact your child was USED as a pawn on the basis of Money. And that, IS truly a sad thing.
JL is no better than your EX for using her child as a pawn to reduce custody time with his father in order to promise a reduction in CS. Irregardless if he see's the kid or not.
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If you have a problem, build a bridge and get over it!
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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I have no problem in doing what I will do. If the money was in the account.... I wouldn't even consider it.... but yeah.. call it anything you want.. I wanted our daughter here..... I'd sell my soul to do it.... and not bat an eye. She needed to be here with her family and friends and away from SM.
Legally, just like you have done your review...I too can do a review and I will. >shrugs<
***edited to add***
In my case, time was important... if we didn't do the deal by Oct, then I was looking at Jan before she would be allowed to move home..... due to school. We did what we had to do to get her here.... instead of 10 hours away.... slightly different from your ex's case.... it wasn't a move away.
Edited by Runswithscissors (06/25/08 10:25 PM)
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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In a courtroom a JUDGE has never mingled CS and Custody.
------------>ours did. We did Cs and custody in the same day. We came to an agreement and he signed off on it... took all of 10 minutes. just as JL can do...... they can come to an agreement, and the Judge can approve it......
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KrazyKat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/05/07
Posts: 1714
Loc: Somewhere in the Middle
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The JUDGE themselves do not mingle them.
As I said, YOU and your Ex or JL and her Ex can agree outside of the courtroom and the judge might/will approve it.
The JUDGE themselves would never come up with a solution that a person looses their custody based on non payment of CS or that Custody changes hands via the new CP not receiving CS. Just doesn't happen when the Judge is making the decision.
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If you have a problem, build a bridge and get over it!
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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JL said her ex has agreed to the proposal, so I am not sure what the problem is......
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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You and Hillary have a lot in common... she claimed to have "more" experience because she had been the first lady..... you have "more" experience because you married a dead beat..... I guess my mother would make a great General since my dad was one....... it's all BS.. period.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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[quote]Legally, just like you have done your review...I too can do a review and I will. >shrugs<
--------->> Again, get your facts straight. And people wonder why I repeat them, b/c they're invariably totally mis-stated even though they are QUITE clearly presented.
I did NOT do a "review". My order stays as it did on issuance. $25 per month. No extras, No college.
Our "case" has not been NEAR the court for ANYTHING since it was signed last September.
Per our Stipulation it was to be re-calculated, by mutual agreement, after filing 2007 tax returns. I reminded ex of that, and the paperwork that would be needed to file a modification. He asked for calculations. I made a spreadsheet.
He is unable to afford the amount that such a modification would create, even when calculated at the lowest possible "valid" income level.
He OFFERED, since he is now making over double what the order is based on, to pay a certain amount. IF he is able to . He has already almost bounced once check. I was delayed 4 weeks ago in depositing, I gave him a heads up (first ex holds checks forever.. drives him crazy).. When I did I could tell something was wrong, so I asked if he needed me to hold it. Finally he asked that I do. I just gave him the check back. It would have bounced.
This week? I'm sure he'll ask to skip for a while. He is paying his bankruptcy attorney. Which I have "issues" with in concept, that he created $50K of debt in 6 months and didn't pay a dollar. But he has 4 lawsuits pending and if they garnish his pay, he can't pay child support #1. She will have in court at the first missed payment. I understand why he needs to file the bankruptcy now that he's created the mess.. don't agree with his creating the mess in the first place. He knows that. Can't disagree with me.
Sooooo... we have no new order. We will NOT have a new order. I have let the modification period pass. We have no other conditions for recalculation in our Stipulation. Modifications here, as he and I WELLL know, do NOT just happen. Even if justified.
I will not now.. nor in 6 months.. nor in a year... ask for a modification. He has an amount he has offered to contribute. When/if he can. If he has a problem, he won't pay it. I have no recourse, I know I have no recourse, I am fine that I have no recourse.
The most important thing to me is that our child have a happy, well-adjusted relationship with BOTH her parents. That we are not quibbling over dollars.
He is a loving father who would carve out his own kidney himself if one of them needed it.
I will not now.. nor will I ever... become what his first wife is.
I started down that path last year. I did not like what I saw when I looked years down the road, or when I looked at myself in the mirror. Took awhile to "get there" but what matters is that we are loving parents, who will have each other's back if the need ever arises (homelessness, illness etc). That is our commitment, our "debt" to each other. And it is not "measured" in dollars. It is measured in commitment, loyalty, kindness and caring. THAT best serves our child... our children.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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[quote]You and Hillary have a lot in common... she claimed to have "more" experience because she had been the first lady..... you have "more" experience because you married a dead beat..... I guess my mother would make a great General since my dad was one....... it's all BS.. period. [/quote]
My ex is NOT a deadbeat.
There has NEVER been a missed child support payment for first child.
Yes, he missed payments with me this year. Which, we discussed.. and was a misunderstanding of communication. Which is fine. I'm not going to call him a deadbeat over $100.
And I never said (again... jesus christ... I say "y", you have to make it "y squared") I had MORE experience. I said I could SYMPATHIZE and UNDERSTAND having been an NCP wife.. and having 2 long term boyfriends as NCP fathers (6 children between them, 3 mothers).
THAT is what I said. "MORE" never came out of my mouth. YOU put it there. As usual.
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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because there are numerous more locations than YOURS, and the bus system might just be a viable option. But YOU just decided that since it wouldn't work in YOUR area, then it's a stupid idea.
As for the system being punitive...well, if ya don't take care of your responsibilities, then I have no problem with someone being punished. Kinda like kids....getting a punishment usually corrects the problem, don'tcha think?
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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to see how it is....and since she is sticking up for them so darned much, she must have had it done in order to understand them soooooo darned well.
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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custody is simply determined first, then based upon that, the judge then determines CS. They are still separate issues, but can be handled at one time, but sequentially with custody being first.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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I believe what I said was.. that him riding child around on the bus or a taxi would likely end up with her saying that he wasn't providing sufficient/safe environment for child and she'd probably take him back to court for THAT.
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jil_stevens
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/31/06
Posts: 3893
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Personally, my ex drives like a maniac. He is a loose cannon, and always speeding and cutting people off. If someone makes him mad, he goes out of his way to inconvenience them. Road rage waiting for someone to die. I would MUCH rather he have the kids on a bus or taxi than in a car with him driving. And in a lot of cities, public transportation is quite common. I don't see that anyone would claim it is an unsafe living environment, unless they are actually living on the bus.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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Children are children.. without "responsibility" (ie: they don't have rent to pay, have to pay for their own food etc).
Children's punishment is not to put them in a 6x9 so they cannot earn a wage or keep a roof over their heads.
Jail for child support is excessively punitive in that it violates the civil liberties of the incarcerated.
To use everyone's popular "debt" analogy. They don't have debtor's prison. If you don't pay your Amex, no one is going to haul you off to prison til you pay up. They don't take away your ability to shower in private, or to eat what you want to eat, or take away your driver's license.
They garnish your wages, they attach your property.
So if one is going to compare child support debt to any other debt, then be consistent.
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Maury
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 8146
Loc: This Asylum --->
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"Jail for child support is excessively punitive in that it violates the civil liberties of the incarcerated."
Not really. It is a civil or criminal contempt remedy. It violates nothing since a hearing is granted as a requirement of due process. Unlike other debts, there is an order to pay and there is a statutory duty of support.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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Again.. I was referring to it in the context of how other poster's compared it. Not as to how the actual legality of law treats it. They keep comparing it to not paying your Visa bill. I'm merely pointing out how that specific comparison is not valid and where using that comparison leads to an excessively punitive remedy.
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Maury
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 8146
Loc: This Asylum --->
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I would agree that comparing it to a visa bill would not be similar.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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Thank you.
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Maury
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 8146
Loc: This Asylum --->
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No thanks needed. I don't have the patience to read 18 pages and catch up. I only read the last few posts.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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LOL.. I think on this one you'd have to read a couple of 18 page threads ;) Long story short.. I'm the lone dissenting view.... but I like being an individual :)
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katiefedup
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/26/05
Posts: 11669
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No, I agree with you...having said that, if the CS order is too high, it is on the NCP to seek to have it changed.
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cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
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i agree, too...he can fit the same standards that everyone else does. i also think the CS order is too high given his income...at least with the arrears. that doesn't mean he can't get a job, pay $50 per month, do something, anything.
he's chosen to do NOTHING all this time, and that is not JLs fault. he needs to take some responsibility and initiative in this situation - he doesn't.
and i don't agree either that JL should take sole custody....he's an idiot for giving it up.
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wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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all you said was that it was hysterical. NOW you've come up with some justification of your put-down. But....my point is still that you base your condemnation on your own situation and NOT how the rest of the country would fare.
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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I compared the fact that punishment is often a deterrent to behavior...and thus is usually effective.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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[quote]No, I agree with you...having said that, if the CS order is too high, it is on the NCP to seek to have it changed. [/quote]
True. However, it is not always as easy to modify CS as most would suggest.
We DID try. Things are not the same everywhere, and HERE, the courts do NOT typically grant modifications. It assumes that your setback today, will be balanced by your gain down the road and they don't want to see you back and forth in court adjusting CS up and down. It will all balance out to be fair, in time.
And I have to say.. it's kinda true. While ex's CS would have dropped significantly for x period of time. Here he is now, paying on $48K of income when he makes $55K.
Relative to our case, when I use the example of what he "should" pay for our daughter, the calculation, versus reality, is impossible to meet. Or at least not and have the NCP be able to live.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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[quote]all you said was that it was hysterical. NOW you've come up with some justification of your put-down. But....my point is still that you base your condemnation on your own situation and NOT how the rest of the country would fare. [/quote]
It wasn't a "put-down".. Yes, the thought of doing that here, is laughable. THe thought of the majority of CPs being "okay" with an NCP carting their children to pick ups and drop offs or anywhere else that matter, on the back of a Schwinn, is a RIOT. No way in hell.
You can choose to see it anyway you like. That's your interpretation. But..god knows there's a ton of CPs looking for ANY excuse to justify children not being with the other parent. I'm sure riding the kids around on a bicycle would rank pretty high on the list. What about an emergency? WHat would they do? How would they go to an ER? blh blah blah blh blah...
And I'll be the FIRST one to raise my hand and say YUP.. I would NOT be okay with that. For those very reasons.
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KrazyKat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/05/07
Posts: 1714
Loc: Somewhere in the Middle
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I don't think one should go to jail for non payment. As with my cousin, he was there for 9 months. The CS amount never changed. The arrearages kept piling on. Even with his $25 distribution. It made no sense to put him more in the hole and it just tied up a spot for someone committing a far worse crime. Like rape, murder, etc.
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If you have a problem, build a bridge and get over it!
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JennyLynn
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 31656
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KK - I respect your opinion, not everyone's going to agree. Not everyone here is going to agree with everything everyone else does - nor is that what I would expect.
I'm doing what's right for ME, and for my SON. And that's all that matters.
I have the full support of the judge, my family, XH's family, and everyone who knows me. Heck - if I were following everyone's advice IRL, who actually KNOW XH and have seen my go through all of this? I wouldn't BE at the hearing today. I'd be listening to his family call me this afternoon to let me know he's in jail. OR we'd be waiting a few months for CSE to file charges again, and I'd hear he's in jail then.
I'm doing the right thing for me, and whether or not anyone agrees or disagrees doesn't matter in the end - I'm doing what's besst for my son.
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Redlegg
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26692
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It made no sense to put him more in the hole and it just tied up a spot for someone committing a far worse crime. Like rape, murder, etc.
It made no sense for him to not pay, I do not want to see anyone in jail for circumstances beyond their control, but at what level does jail happen, and is there any attempt to pay. Just the idea that someone in jail for not paying child support is "taking a spot" of a rapist or murderer does nto even make sense. There are plenty of spots for all the criminals, just do what arizona does. Jail is a punishment, an offshoot of that is the deterrent factor. The threat of going to jail is a deterrent, but the actual sentence is a punishment and a deterrent. Let let judge handle it, if the judge is tired of seeing people in his courtroom, then he needs a new job, I am sure people here get tired of seeing clients more than once, oh well. There are exceptions to everything, and that is more obvious here. Its like if someone saw jesus walking on water, they would complain that he can't swim. If you don't pay your bills, your wrong, if you don't support your children, your wrong. Its funny, we don't equate support with parenting time, but every state does, let a single parent, or two parents not support their children, and the state can take them away, happens every day. I don't care whether you pay CS or are owed it, everyone knows what wrong and right is. Let it go to court, thats what court is for. I don't care, you don;t support you kids, you are a deadbeat. If you can't support your kids and make no attempt to get help, well then your a proud deadbeat that is stupid. Its a simple concept, you have kids, you support them.
Sometimes peace of mind is worth being weak. But not holdng a parent to minimum legal requirement for support of their children is not doing anyone any favors except the person who owes the money. Its a bad example to set for your children.
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JennyLynn
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 31656
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I agree with you Redlegg. One point I think too many people are either failing or refusing to see is that for my son and for our situation, this isn't a black and white issue. I'm willing to let some of the arrearage go, as well as accept a less amount of CS each month if it means I do have more peace of mind in knowing I'm doing the right thing.
Honestly? I don't expect him to fulfill his obligations. He has shown me thus far being a parent (emotionally, physically, and financially) is not a priority to him. I doubt he will ever change, but I feel I owe it to myself and my son to give him one more chance. After this, I will know I did my best and the courts can handle it from here on out.
My son's welfare and his best interests are more important to me than constantly being angry that his father isn't who I wish he were.
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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The difference between your ex and my ex is that MY ex can afford CS. He lives in a million dollar home and makes very good money. *IF* he can provide me with proof that what I paid is "somewhere" as in another account, whatever.... then I won't do the increase... if he can't prove to me that it's not out there.... then I WILL do the increase.... He was ordered to put that $$ into a "savings" account established for our daughter. He's lucky I haven't done contempt charges. I am going to enterain this in Oct. I will again as for the information and inform him that if he does not oblige, then I will seek CS review through CSE. I can do that.... or hit him with contempt.
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PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
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What does dragging an adoption and an abortion into it have to do with anything whatsoever? Totally irrelevant and said solely to hurt. I'm a-ok with my decisions in those regards, but nice try.
----->That's what I am wondering too.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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Thanks for the clarification and confirming our situations are NOTHING alike. I'm not initiating child support review, or filing contempt as a punishment.
Unlike I think anyone here, I'm not going through the courts.. whatsoever.
So, please.. stop lumping me into your bucket.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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[quote]----->That's what I am wondering too. [/quote]
It's her new "trick". And who says you can't teach an old dog new ones? ;)
I think it's hysterical she evidently thinks it bothers me. This year is 22 years for one, 19 years for the other. I'm quite beyond it and couldn't care what anyone else's position on it is. Wayyyyyy beyond any 'statute of limitations' for beating me about the head :)
But if she gets her jollies off that way.. so be it. Evidently the country club and minding the lifeguard's business isn't quite enough for her.
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PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
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I think its the same with the "big hair", "adam's apple" and "manicure" BS. Cracks me up, too. Like that hurts my feelings or something. I'm certainly not threadjacking and posting pictures of my hands to prove how nice my nails are now. I don't give a fvck, unlike some people.
Shiat, I HAVE big hair, big deal! Its a pain in the arse, too. I don't think I've ever said otherwise on this board. The adam's apple comment? Well, I honestly don't know where to go with that one. I don't think I have ever had anyone make a comment like that to me. I *have* had people comment on my jaw. It's the <insert maiden name> jutting jaw. All my siblings have it. That's how everyone knew I was a <insert maiden name> girl.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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Well... she's gotta target something.
She must hate me more than you, lol. I get my first child dragged into it. She just busts on your physical appearance. With me, she thinks she's going for the jugular. Whatever. Maybe they should add more games of shuffleboard or whatever at the "club".
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PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
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Oh, she tried to bring up the adoption on another thread. Remember? She talked about my "multiple, multiple children, marriages, adoptions, abortions...." whatever. LOL!
She probably hates us equally but it *is* funny the lengths she will go to to bash.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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Nahhh.. that was me remember? That's the thread and postings where she was replying TO me, but referring to me in the third person. Like I was you.
And then she wonders why I call her on stuff. She can't even keep who she's talking to straight.. never mind her own stories.
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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Hello...... like you calling me fat and a midget isn't stupid and old? Don't throw rocks there honey....
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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And don't YOU throw them. The Queen of the Attack.
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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You are both idiots. PM, you've thrown the fact I was a NCm at me and you used my name...... PJ, you've thrown the fact I was a NCM and you started on the appearance issue long before I said you looked like a man.... So you two little innocent imbicials can continue this discussion.
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MaritimeGuy
addict
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 532
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If you women are going to go at it so vehemently all the time the least you could do is get nekkid and douse yourselves in oil for us spectators.
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RJ1
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/19/05
Posts: 5164
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You are wrong. JL initiated this. There are several posts with her saying she did. She even posted in one that said she guesses she could back down on filing contempt. She called CSE to keep it cheat as opposed to her attorney. CSE is doing what SHE started. I find it hard to believe that CSE offices nationwide just do random checks of deadbeats and pursues them. Just doesn't happen. She even said in one post that CSE is hard to reach and she has to leave messages. JL started this...why does everyone keep saying differently?
RJ
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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I've thrown that at you? When in ANY semblance of recent memory?
I've called you by name. Yes. A practice YOU started remember? And since obviously security is NOT such a concern to you anymore.. despite all your dramatic protestations to the contrary, then there's no problem right? You've made that abundantly clear.
Oh.. and it's "imbeciles". Try learning to spell. Or don't they teach that at the country club?
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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Because JL is now on their "most favored" list. Despite her own history and despite their own past issues with her. She's now in the "I can contradict myself 9 ways to Sunday but no one should DARE call me n it" club.
Someday, we too, may be blessed with such an honor. ROFL.
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PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
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[quote]Hello...... like you calling me fat and a midget isn't stupid and old? Don't throw rocks there honey.... [/quote]
Actually, I said in the thread you hijacked that you were trying to prove how NOT fat you were. Go back & read.
Once you decided it was cool to sling insults about appearances in your "Who's this mess?" thread, well, gloves were off.
HTH!
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
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You're wrong.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
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That's over in the reality TV thread, silly.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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Miranda
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
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[quote]You're wrong.
WTF is a NCM? [/quote]
Non custodial mother.
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
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PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
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PJ, you've thrown the fact I was a NCM
---->You were, weren't you?
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
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Thanks!
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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that anyone who uses the court system to obtain the child support that their children are entitled to are somehow "lower" than you? I am just curious where you get off with this air of superiority....that YOU're a better person because you just suck it up.
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MaritimeGuy
addict
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 532
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Oh right...it's so hard to keep it all straight...
***sneaking back to reality thread***
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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What is wrong with Jennylynn contacting CSE and asking them to do something about the child support issues? Isn't that their job????
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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I don't think that is part of the country club curriculum. Perhaps where you are from....but the rest of us would have learned that in school.
don't you see how silly you sound?
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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Umm... no, not "superior". And not sure where exactly I referenced YOU Melody.
I have an issue with people using child support as a means to alienate their children from their fathers (or mothers if non custodial).
I have an issue with people waiving child support solely to get what they want, and then turning around and going after the other party for it.
The debate at hand is between me and RWS and her contention that I'VE gone through the court to stick it to my ex. Which I have NOT. I've never even BEEN to court, other than to file my divorce paperwork. Oh sorry, and one more time to correct things in the paperwork that b/c of the Self Support Reserve issue required specific wording that took a few phone calls and figuring out what it SHOULD be (the clerks didn't even know) but it had to be corrected.
I've NEVER been before a judge, I've never filed contempt. But RWS suggested I'd had a "review" through the court. That is patently.. FALSE. As usual.
However, if you want to continue to have a debate with me that has NOTHING to do with you, feel free. Not sure where YOU get off assuming comments directed directly towards someone else were about YOU.
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RJ1
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/19/05
Posts: 5164
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Nothing whatsoever wrong with it. But JL says she had nothing to do with this when she had EVERYTHING to do with this. I'm just correcting the people who think JL was clueless about this contempt case.
RJ
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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[quote]What is wrong with Jennylynn contacting CSE and asking them to do something about the child support issues? Isn't that their job???? [/quote]
She claims they SELF initiated THIS review. They did NOT. SHE initiated, as she did the one LAST year. but she's sitting here, lying, saying she didn't. RJ1 is dead on the money in terms of recollecting the sequence of events. Down to the frustration over not being able to REACH CSE to report his violation.
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RJ1
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/19/05
Posts: 5164
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Right about the time she was ready to cut off ties with ex and have her new bf take his place...actually WANTING ex to just walk away with her having sole and no CS.
RJ
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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[quote]Right about the time she was ready to cut off ties with ex and have her new bf take his place...actually WANTING ex to just walk away with her having sole and no CS.
RJ [/quote]
Bingo! Something along the lines of "I'm perfectly okay with him not paying child support.. if he would reflect that in change of custody and that he wouldn't see him". Not an exact quote of course.
You are, absolutely, 1000% correct in what your last posts have said in terms of recollection.
It is my f/irm belief that she will continually push and press the CS issue until the man DOES finally decide to walk away, and out of the child's life. I don't think she'll truly be happy until she makes that happen.
But she will continually make it look like she's an innocent victim, just swept up in a process she has no, and has exerted any, control over. Which is a flat out, baldfaced, lie. THAT is my issue.
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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before I can say you sound like you have a superior attitude than anyone else? Doesn't that SMACK of your lofty beliefs of yourself? Jeez!
Well...since you have such specific views on child support, I'm surprised that you would make statements that would insult such a large number of people. So you're ONLY against the people that use child support to alienate fathers. So, then MOST people who get child support, and/or use the system to get support or adjust is are fine, right? And you don't like people who waive support in order to get what they want....and then go after it? How about turning that one about to not liking people who will sell their children in order to get OUT of child support....cuz that's basically what Runs' ex did. Runs saw an opportunity to get the child away from such an unhealthy situation and did so. Just because her ex is stupid enough to think he can walk away from his financial obligation, why should he be allowed to?
And for the record, ANYONE who wants to join in the conversation is entitled to do so....AND I don't have to have you insult me personally to gain an opinion about your attitude, dear. I never said I assumed your comments were about ME....I merely have an opinion about your comments.
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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isn't the person who didn't pay their support in the first place actually the party responsible for the predicament?
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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The guy obviously didn't pay his support....so who cares who initiated anything? If he had paid his support he wouldn't be in this mess.
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RJ1
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/19/05
Posts: 5164
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That's not my point. But sure...he is in contempt as I've said all along. But I wish she would quit saying she had nothing to do with this. The innocent victim game is getting old. Why not 'fess up??? I would and wouldn't be ashamed of it!
RJ
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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I never said her ex was any better than she was. Happy?
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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I have an issue with people waiving child support solely to get what they want, and then turning around and going after the other party for it.
----------------->so, let me ask you this. You are faced with two options.
1) Fighting out the CS issue in court and contempt issue and taking up more time, more money and leaving your child 10 hours away with a SM that was mentally abusing her and "best" case scenerio is that if you weren't done by xmas, it would be the following SUMMER before child came home knowing it was against the child's wishes.
2) Agreeing to the waiver (which I did) and looking at it in a year and hoping that after everything settles down that the ex does have the money somewhere and that he's just being an ass. Before I go after CS, I am going to give him ONE more shot at showing me where the money is. IF he has it.... no problems... NO increase in CS.. .if he does NOT.. then I am going after CS.
That's not a bait and switch. My goal from the beginning was to get her home... period.... it was after we started this mess was when we found out about the money not being there... I had a choice.. to fight over it.. leaving her miserable in a school she hated and living in a hotel or get her home..... I would do the same thing again.
If you think that's bad.... SO EFFIN what..... it doesn't break my heart!
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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You've had opportunity since you first started bytching about stepmom in 2005 to get your child back. So it shouldn't have been this "all fired up" rush to get her back.
Call it what you want.. you're a welcher.
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RJ1
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/19/05
Posts: 5164
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And see...he DID pay SOMETHING. Another thing JL exaggerates to make herself out to be a victim. I wish I had gotten thousands from my ex in the last year like her...and if my ex DID pay me I'd give him credit for it. But she continually goes around saying "he's not paying"!
RJ
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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In 2005 there wasn't a change in circumstance you idiot. Just because there is a SM, doesn't make it a change. Just because I don't like the woman and i felt she was abusive to daughter- doesn't warrant a change. I had to get some documentation going, which I did. However, her grades were good and she was with me 1/2 of the time..... I didn't have a chance in HELL to change it....in 2005. The case would of been thrown out and it would of cost an assload. I had to sit and wait for the right time.
The rush is that she was no longer an hour away and I had her 1/2 the time to her moving 10 hours away and me seeing her "maybe" 1 x a month and her father being gone 90% of the time with his new job leaving daughter with SM full time...... that's change of circumstance right there and warranted a change in custodial change and was done so very easily and quickly after 2 years of documentation and the GAL's advice.
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elliesmom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 8835
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[quote]What is wrong with Jennylynn contacting CSE and asking them to do something about the child support issues? Isn't that their job???? [/quote]
Since you asked....there is nothing legally wrong with it at all. It just goes against everything she says is important to her - her son's welfare.
She will never see a regular monthly check from this loser. He was a zero before her, he was a zero when she got pregnant by him, he was a zero while they were married, and lo and behold STILL a zero as an ex-husband - what a shock. HE hasn't changed. JL maybe made some immature decisions that got her married to him - but she stepped up and became a responsible loving parent (who could not surprisingly no longer tolerate his overgrown child arse) as we would have hoped he would. But he didn't. And NOTHING his ex wife does to him will MAKE him grow the fcuk up.
All her son wants is to love and be loved by this unfortunate excuse for a parent. Sad but true. He will measure his "lovability" by the way this man treats him for quite some time. He wouldn't give a darn if his only toy is a cardboard box dug out of the neighbors garbage because Daddy doesn't pay CS. It's just not on his radar. I cannot see how pursuing money she knows she won't get is going to help her son feel more loved by his father.
So if she isn't pursuing contempt to get some money (I think we can all agree that won't happen), or to make her son feel better? Why then? I don't think she is deliberately malicious, but I do think the anti-man mentality of our society has convinced everyone that pursuing and throwing EVERY nonpayor of CS in jail is "what's best for the kids." But I think if we sit down and REALLY examine many situations - its just not true. People hiding money in off-shore accounts and in their girlfriends name? Sure throw them in jail. They are idiots. They have it to give and just don't. A 30 yo waiter living with his mommy? Not so much.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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because it should be pursued. Because he has a financial obligation to the child. Because someday Jennylynn might be able to recover all that was owed to her....and why shouldn't she be able to get reimbursed for all she has had to spend to raise the child on her ex's behalf?
If she just lets it go, then there is no hope that he will ever be held accountable. And the dickwad will win.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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Right.. then what were all the intermediate "battles" you so often refer to when you give your war count of how much you've "been through"?
Of course, that's one of those "facts" that conveniently changes based on how you want to be perceived in that argument. It's either you've NEVER had a custody battle, or you've lived through 5 or 6 and who the f is anyone to judge YOUR experience level.
Which is probably why you back JL. Same thing. Two peas in a behavioral pod.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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eom
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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wait, you are confused.
I did have 5 custody battle all PRIOR to 98. After 98, I had (0) until this one. SM didn't come into the picture until 2003 (I think). All the custody battles were initiated by HIM not me.
He wanted sole custody from the beginning and I had custody. He's never wanted to pay me CS. We went from me having soul, to him getting custody to me retaining custody to joint custody and finally me giving him custody in 98 just to get it over with. It wasn't going to stop. I had to due to my health and the fact I lost a twin in the process. There have been NO other battles until this one in 2007.
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elliesmom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 8835
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Sometimes you have to let the dickwads win in order to be right by your kid.
And I am NOT suggesting that she NOT have a CS order in place. H3LL I'd put in to have his tax return confiscated from now till the end of time or I was paid back. Hey - he might win the lottery some day ya know? But I WOULD NOT WOULD NOT WOULD NOT be pursuing contempt for non-payment knowing that he won't pay (and really - can't pay even if it is his own stupid fault) and the ONLY option for him will be to sign away his son and/or JAIL. It's just senseless.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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It's either you've NEVER had a custody battle, or you've lived through 5 or 6
------------------>please find a post where I said I've never had a custody battle. I am interested in your research abilities to find that one.
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KrazyKat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/05/07
Posts: 1714
Loc: Somewhere in the Middle
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You have just summed up everything I was saying before and then some!
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If you have a problem, build a bridge and get over it!
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RJ1
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/19/05
Posts: 5164
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And I think that's why JL "skews" the truth...for example, "he never pays his CS" (when he has made some effort and she's gotten thousands), or how about "he doesn't even take his visitation" (when he does do his weekends just not extended times), or "I'm just trying to help him" (when she's already filed contempt charges on him twice within 6 months and had a replacement Dad lined up). She wants people to believe she's doing everything right, when I truly feel she's in revenge mode and can't see what she's doing. And also, she is well versed on custody/CS issues...but acts like this is all new to her.
She really needs to let some of this go, wait it out, try everything in her power to push son/Father relationship, and hope that one day her ex can see that his son needs him in all ways.
RJ
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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I don't view that as letting the dickwad win. As long as there is an order in place, then the dickwad doesn't win. SOMEDAY she might be able to collect on it. It may NEVER happen while the child is still a minor....ask katie. BUT at least the dickwad doesn't just get to walk away freely from it. THAT's when the dickwad wins.
But ya never know....being introduced to Mr. Jailhouse just MIGHT be the impetus that some dickwads need to make them set their priorities in order and get a real job and pay their support. Kinda like a reverse carrot.
Edited by Melody (06/26/08 12:48 PM)
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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That's my thinking too... what they've done in the past has NOT worked.... so let's try this NOW before it really, really gets out of hand (like Katie's).... maybe it will work... maybe it won't....... but you will know that you've taken every angle and you then can move on.
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MaritimeGuy
addict
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 532
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[quote]But ya never know....being introduced to Mr. Jailhouse just MIGHT be the impetus that some dickwads need to make them set their priorities in order and get a real job and pay their support. Kinda like a reverse carrot. [/quote]
Or more like a foward facing carrot coming at him from the reverse end....
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Laineann
addict
Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 604
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I don't know about all of you, but to me, $6,000.00 is a lot of money. My XH was behind a few times, although he isn't now, anwheres from $100.00 to over $4,000.00. One time, they took part of his tax return, one time they froze his bank accounts, and other times they just garnished extra money from his check. Not one time did I initiate any of it. Heck, we didn't even have to go to court, it was all automatic. I don't initiate court appearances, can't afford the time off from work. When it happened, I was just as surprised as he was. When they froze his bank accounts, they froze all accounts that had his named linked to it, like my daughters savings account. I didn't find out until she got the letter in the mail saying that her account was frozen. She only had $143.00 in it and they took $100.00 off the top just for freezing it(bank fees). I gave it all back to her out of my own money. And before anybody says that it all happened because maybe I was receiving some type of government assistance, I wasn't, and not now and never will. I just wanted to show you all that sometimes things are out of he CP's hands.
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katiefedup
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/26/05
Posts: 11669
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well how did they know if you never initiate anything?
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Laineann
addict
Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 604
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All CS payments are garnished and sent to Child support enforcement. They have it all in their records.
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Laineann
addict
Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 604
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This is NY state. At our initial child support hearing, I had the choice to have CS either garnished or have X pay me directly, I chose garnishment.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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In this case.. we know it wasn't an "automatic" review. There are postings.. several of them.. with JL ruminating over whether to call or not call. Then complaining that she couldn't get through. Waiting for a callback, blah blah blah.
This was in no way "automatic". She's been QUITE involved from initiating.. to now.
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katiefedup
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/26/05
Posts: 11669
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I wonder what happened in court today? Did he go to jail?
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Laineann
addict
Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 604
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Life is too short to nit pick every little word that someone (that you really don't know on an internet message board) says.
Why care so much, does her life affect your life at all? Sometimes, I can be a stickler for detail, can recall things about a person that they might not even remember saying or doing, but, if I let that get to me, it could consume me, if I let it. But, if it doesn't affect me, has no bearing on my health and well-being, I don't worry about it. Sometimes you just got to let things go, move on. That dead horse can be beat only so many times. :)
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MaritimeGuy
addict
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 532
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[quote]That dead horse can be beat only so many times. :) [/quote]
You must be new here...
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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It's not nitpicking.. they are out and out lies. I don't know why someone would come on an internet board and deliberately lie to them. Just to prey on their sympathies. It's annoying at best.. it's seriously twisted at worst.
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Redlegg
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26692
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She wants money due her, she is going to court, some have decided to not pursue their ex for their responsibilities, and some just pick and choose, so what. You can say its about the responsibility, you can say going after it will impede the relationship, and for everyone of those, there is the exact reverse, they non paying parent is using the relationship as the hostage in order for you to not pursue it. It works all ways, it works different for different people, but the bottom line is that the money is owed, there is nothing wrong with going after it, and there is nothing wrong with forgiving it, you have to do what works for you. Everyone is right.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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[quote]I wonder what happened in court today? Did he go to jail? [/quote]
I got a dollar that says no.
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Redlegg
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26692
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Are they lies or is it the self generating propaganda machine, you mentioned a project about it not to long ago, maybe this is a perfect example of a wonderful spin that makes me feel good.
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preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
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When you say "No, I did NOT initiate this.. CSE contacted ME" when.. however months ago, you were on here posting about whether or not YOU should contact CSE.. come to the conclusion you SHOULD contact me, then further post complaining how you can't get THROUGH to CSE.. THAT would be a LIE. That isn't "propoganda".
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The best we can do is live our lives with enlightened improvisation.
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Laineann
addict
Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 604
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[quote][quote]That dead horse can be beat only so many times. :) [/quote]
You must be new here... [/quote]
No, not new here, just don't spend all of my time here. Have been around here off and on since 2000. Used to post on the old boards as "Left Behind". But, nothing around here really changes. Where are you from with that name? I am originally from Maine, in my home town, we have the "Maine Maritime Museum." LOL
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Laineann
addict
Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 604
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[quote]It's not nitpicking.. they are out and out lies. I don't know why someone would come on an internet board and deliberately lie to them. Just to prey on their sympathies. It's annoying at best.. it's seriously twisted at worst. [/quote]
Just let it go PM. Call it what you want, but in my opinion, you are nit-picking. You have made it quite obvious that you don't like the girl. If what she has to say bothers you so much and gets you into such a tizzy, then ignore her posts. All it takes is one click of the button, then you don't have to read anything that she says. Isn't there anything else that you can focus all of your mental energies on? You are seriously going to work yourself up into a stroke or something.
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Laineann
addict
Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 604
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[quote]She wants money due her, she is going to court, some have decided to not pursue their ex for their responsibilities, and some just pick and choose, so what. You can say its about the responsibility, you can say going after it will impede the relationship, and for everyone of those, there is the exact reverse, they non paying parent is using the relationship as the hostage in order for you to not pursue it. It works all ways, it works different for different people, but the bottom line is that the money is owed, there is nothing wrong with going after it, and there is nothing wrong with forgiving it, you have to do what works for you. Everyone is right. [/quote]
You are 100% right!!
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MaritimeGuy
addict
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 532
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I'm on the other side of the border...in Nova Scotia.
I was teasing you about being new here. I think saying some threads compare to beating a dead horse would be a huge understatement. It's good that people stick to their convictions but sometimes you just have to agree to disagree and move on.
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Laineann
addict
Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 604
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I had a friend from Newfoundland, and my adoptive grandfather was from Quebec. I live about 5 minutes from Niagra Falls, Ontario.
I know you were teasing about me being new here. Beating a dead horse does nothing but make the horse deader and it gives me a headache!!!!
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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PM,
Still waiting for your fine research skills that show I've said I've never had a custody battle or anything showing I've had a battle since 98. I will continue to wait for your findings......... We DID have a review of CS since 98, but you said "custody".... so I sit here and wait patiently to say "you were wrong".
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PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
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Heh.
And I'm still waiting for the posts in which I called you fat.
.... so I sit here and wait patiently to say "you were wrong".
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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You didn't call me "fat" but you commented on my weight and my husband's looks. The intent was clear and I figure if you can read between the lines on my posts, I can read between the lines on yours. AND your comments about my weight were made BEFORE I said anything about "what's this mess" post.
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PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
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[quote]You didn't call me "fat" but you commented on my weight and my husband's looks. The intent was clear and I figure if you can read between the lines on my posts, I can read between the lines on yours. AND your comments about my weight were made BEFORE I said anything about "what's this mess" post. [/quote]
Show me.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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go find it your own damn self.... I am heading out to play golf.... but I assure you.... your comments about my pictures and my hubby was done BEFORE you sent the picture of the bird.......... AND my pictures were not put out thee becuase of you but because of what Relayer said..... and you commented on my weight... and my husband...... Find it your own damn self.... I have friends and a golf match to meet.
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PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
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Just like I thought. Bahahahaha....you're an idiot.
You bust on a chronically ill person who posts his picture and then hijack the whole freakin' thread to prove how NON fat you are, THEN you say I insulted your DH(?) and called you fat, YET, you have nothing to back it up.
Whatever.
Yeah, go get drunk with the 21(?) year old at the cuntry club.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
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Actually, if you recall... I told him that he looked good in the picture. I don't remember insulting him or busting on him. Furthermore, I don't have to prove anything to you or this board. If someone wants to go look it up.... they can.
Third, the LG does not play golf.... she does just that... she's a life guard. The ladies I play golf with are 40+ years old and for the record, I shot a 40 on the front.
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PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
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Hehe...you are so wrong and so unwilling to admit. LMFAO.
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I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
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