Cassie23
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/07/05
Posts: 14714
|
|
Just wondering how many think that the courts would send a NCP to jail for nonpayment (let's use the $6k that JL's ex is behind) if the same NCP has another child- child #1 born FIRST- that he is NOT in arrears with.
Now I know JL said she thinks he is like $600 behind with childcare costs for child #1 and doesn't actually pay CS. According to that letter sent by her ex's friend he pays $200 plus a month for her XDSD...
Even given THAT situation do we really think a judge will send that NCP to jail so that he falls behind now not just with child #2, but with child #1????
|
Cassie23
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/07/05
Posts: 14714
|
|
I thought this would be an interesting posting to those of the MANY CP's on here that think Child #1 should always be supported FIRST and FOREMOST before child #2.
In this scenario, if the NCP goes to jail he will no longer be supporting child #1- is THAT fair to child #1?
|
matart1
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 09/01/05
Posts: 2798
|
|
I would not put anything past a judge - the legal system can be so jacked half the time whether it is for the right or the wrong reasons...
--------------------
Life is a long lesson in humility.
|
JennyLynn
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 31656
|
|
<<Now I know JL said she thinks he is like $600 behind with childcare costs for child #1 and doesn't actually pay CS. According to that letter sent by her ex's friend he pays $200 plus a month for her XDSD...>>
That's b/c that's close to what he SHOULD be paying for half of her daycare costs.
Honestly? I'm not sure it would make a difference. CSE attorney knows that he is also behind on supporting his daughter, she knows the situation and still told me jailtime is a very real possibility.
I'm sure we could go back and forth for days on this issue, but the fact of the matter is what we think *would* happen doesn't matter, the laws are so different in every state and even county, KWIM?
Regarding whether or not I THINK someone should go to jail when they have another child to support (but not supporting that child either)? I suppose I have a different outlook on the issue b/c this is my situation. If I didn't have such a good relationship with his daughter's mother, and if I didn't know what I know about the lack of responsibility and relationship he also has with his daughter, I may have felt differently.
I can't say whether or not it's right or wrong - I don't think there's one blanket answer for all situations.
|
youngatheart
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 09/03/05
Posts: 9394
|
|
I don't know that he'll go to jail. In the county where Jenn's order is, there's the probability. It all depends on whether or not the Judge thinks he's made a good faith effort in following the order of the Courts. It's a crapshoot.
|
cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
|
|
i got that yesterday from a poster that my daughter should come second to my SS because SS was born before my daughter (irrespective of the fact that he is not my biological son, and i do contribute greatly to his financial things).
well, what do the same people believe should happen in an in-tact family? child #1 should be fully supported through college, etc. and just whatever is left should go to child #2 because they came second?
i don't get the logic that child #1 should get more just because they came first....all children have the same basic needs and monies should be distributed evenly.
in this case with JL if he isn't paying CS to child #1 then the judge doesn't really need to consider it. i wonder how people like katies first love get away with 100s of 1000s of $s behind and people like JLs first love don't.
--------------------
wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
|
MaritimeGuy
addict
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 532
|
|
Although I have no first hand experience I would hope the judge's number one priority is see that the support is paid for the benefit of the child. He will only select prison as an option if he see's that there is absolutely no chance the man will make any effort whatsoever to pay.
That's why deadbeats can string this stuff out so long. They just need to convince the judge that this time they mean it...they're going to start making an effort. And to be fair I think they do mean it at that moment. It's just along the way they tend to get distracted by shiny objects and fall down on their commitments.
|
Cassie23
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/07/05
Posts: 14714
|
|
I wonder what the courts would do in a situation where he was supporting child #1- and it was a county like yours where jail time is likely....
Just seems like we have had all these talks about a NCP wanting a break on CS for child #1 when he has more children. The consensus is that child #1 is first and should be supported first and appropriately. So would throwing that kind of NCP in jail for nonpayment of child #2 be appropriate IF he is supporting child #1.
This would be a good one for PM's ex. NCP is supporting child #1 BOTH financially and emotionally. If he was in arrears for child #2, should he be thrown in jail so that he is no longer supporting EITHER children? Should child #1 suffer because NCP is in arrears with child #2???
|
PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
|
|
The logic seems simple to me: If you can't support child #1, don't have a child #2.
In our state, step parents income isn't typically figured into CS. How is your income figured in? Is it different in your state?
--------------------
I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
|
JennyLynn
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 31656
|
|
Cassie, honestly I'm not sure. Like I said, I don't think there's one answer for everyone's situation.
On one hand, the person should be held responsible. On the other hand, if he were supporting child #1 and very involved in that child's life, how sad it would be to have him thrown in jail and be taken away from that child. But then again...he'd be skipping out of responsibility and accountability for child #2...maybe we should just start castrating men after having one child. ;)
|
Cassie23
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/07/05
Posts: 14714
|
|
Cinscu I agree 100 percent and what I have fought on here since day one of coming to this site. All the CP's would gather and most have that consensus.
But now here we have JL and most CP's on here think that he should go to jail... But then wouldn't that be going against the fact that child #1 should come first? Doesn't that take away from child #1?
I just think sometimes we aren't looking at the WHOLE situation...
|
MaritimeGuy
addict
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 532
|
|
I'm guessing the logic is that when the second woman got involved with the man she was or should have been aware a portion of his income was already 'spoken for'. She got pregnant on the basis she and her new partner would support the child on their income after the support paid to the preexisting child. Any calculation of child support from that point on would then be based on his 'adjusted' income.
|
cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
|
|
julie, i'm talking about extras here...i don't think it's fair for CP of child #1 to get $700 per month whilc CP of child #2 gets $250 per month....they should each get $475 per month because that is what would happen in an in-tact family...doesn't mean they couldn't support their child.
no, my income is not figured into CS, but with all the extras my income certainly pays a portion of things that are advantages to SS: vacations, timeshare, nice home with his own room and hiw own bathroom, our vehicles, insurance, food on the table, extra curriculars, clothing, toys, etc. etc.
DH makes a very good income, but literally 1/2 of his take home pay goes towards items such as CS, daycare there, daycare here, travel and attorneys fees. SS would not have all the extras he gets if we were not a 2 income family. in other words - without me (or a SM) DH likely won't be able to pay anything for SS's college.
--------------------
wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
|
Cassie23
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/07/05
Posts: 14714
|
|
I don't disagree with that...
However in my DH's case AFTER that amount was spoken for 17% as it is in NYS for one child... They split medical 50/50. She took that back to court and got it changed to 95/5 because she was making hardly anything at the time. Even after the CO- she was going back and having things changed. So what we thought we had after having two of our own children changed.
The courts can do whatever they want- we've seen that first hand.
|
cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
|
|
i see the logic, but i still don't think it's fair....i would even bend what i stated to maintain CS at the same level and continue to increase the second one as income increases but not the first...or even step down the first one over a period of time, say $100/month per year until they were equal....like a phase in phase out.
it isn't the fault of the child (technically where the money is supposed to be used) that there are other siblings. it isn't the child that should suffer if the CP can't support the child - which is a whole other ballgame in an of itself because i don't understand why people have children that can't support them on their own anyway. taxes and death are the only sure things in life....a spouse and a job are not.
--------------------
wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
|
PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
|
|
Those are all examples of what you call "advantages". Tjose are not necessities. You don't have to pay for a time share, vacations, nice cars....you choose to do that. How is that a disadvantage to you?
"without me (or a SM) DH likely won't be able to pay anything for SS's college. "
---->I am a single mother and I have no college fund for my three kids. I am one of eight children and my parents paid nothing for our educations. Six out of eight of us are college graduates. A college fund isn't a necessity either.
--------------------
I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
|
preemiemom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
|
|
[quote]This would be a good one for PM's ex. NCP is supporting child #1 BOTH financially and emotionally. If he was in arrears for child #2, should he be thrown in jail so that he is no longer supporting EITHER children? Should child #1 suffer because NCP is in arrears with child #2??? [/quote]
And that's where I differ. I would never put that on my ex Or put him in that position.
I'm aware he can't support two children.
I know this for a fact. While people can throw out suggestions, the fact he is the man has x income potential. He already has "y" order in place. Finding a part time job when you leave for your REGULAR job at 6am and don't get home til 6:30pm is NOT easy.
When you have another child 1 evening a week, and 2 weekend nights. EVERY week. Remember, my ex is NOT an "every other week" parent, and his first wife wouldn't allow him TO be one. SHE has to work.
Which is another problem. He has to be available for HER work schedule changes.. b/c of course HER work schedule is HIS problem.
But of course.. he could choose to "get a backbone" and then she can threaten to move her to California. And him penniless and her with a rich aunt who funded 2 weeks in Europe last year for her. That'd be an interesting fight. Her with endless money and him with a 300 credit score, in bankruptcy and barely a roof over his head.
As I said.. people can call it whatever they like. I'm not a matyr.. I'm just not a heartless bytch that thinks my kid is up for sale to the other parent.
Friends of mine used to joke about one of the girl's ex's.. didn't pay child support. Referred to his visitation as "getting him on credit". My ex refers to child support as "ransom". The price he has to pay for the right to see his child.
As I said in the other thread.. and the comment didn't come FROM me, it came from a divorced NCP man who has lived this who would drop off groceries rather than CP mom shoving the money up her nose. He felt I had class.. to not use my kid as a weapon, nor as a means of punishment, nor as a means to better MY life financially. It's one of the reasons he's with me. Respect for how I'm living my life and dealing with my ex. I'm comfortable my position represents someone with class (as HE said.. I hadn't thought of it really that way until he said it at lunch today) and respect for my ex husband.
|
Cassie23
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/07/05
Posts: 14714
|
|
Well what about raises? Or bonuses? What if the NCP wants to bank those raises, put it towards his 401k or a vacation that benefits all the children? He isn't allowed to because if the courts allow an upward modification based on that raise then CS is revisited and that new monies gets distributed to the CP.
Yet if the CP gets raise or bonus that parent can do as they see fit with it----
|
PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
|
|
You pretty much answered your own question right here:
"it isn't the fault of the child (technically where the money is supposed to be used) that there are other siblings."
Its not the fault of the first child that there are other children.
--------------------
I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
|
cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
|
|
absolutely i agree with you princess....i was getting reamed by someone yesterday for not saying i would contribute equally to my SS as i would to my bio-daughter for college. none of those things are necessities, they are extras. they benefit SS. i'm not going to sit around and give everything to my daughter and nothing to my SS is what i'm trying to say.
--------------------
wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
|
1966Gal
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 04/04/08
Posts: 10098
|
|
I have no idea how a judge would rule, but I think it doesn't matter. If you neglect/abuse one child, you still go to jail, even if you have others.
--------------------
The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.
|
cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
|
|
in CA it works either way....if the CP gets a raise then CS can be reduced (although usually it isn't) because the NCP is also getting raises. because the CP is usually the mom and usually the lesser earner and the NCP is usually the dad and usually the higher earner then the NCPs raises usually are more of an increase the the CPs raises....so the NCP ends up paying more anyway. at least that's been my experience b/c my DH makes 2.5+ time that of BM. her 3% raise is $1K while his 3% raise is $2.5K etc.
i'm not saying they should auto increase NCPs CS, but if a modification is sought by parent #1 it should be auto-denied until CS is equal for child #1 and child #2. if CP#2 requests a CS mod it should be granted, although based on the normal standard.
--------------------
wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
|
greeneyes
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/08/08
Posts: 2847
|
|
Your daughter should come first, for you.
But, your DH will have split loyalties - meaning equally between two children. If his daughter gets a free ride through college, his son should as well. You don't punish children for the mistakes of the parent(s).
|
greeneyes
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/08/08
Posts: 2847
|
|
If your DH can't pay for his son's college fund, he then can't pay for his daughter's college fund, right?
|
Sadie
addict
Reged: 06/03/05
Posts: 567
|
|
I dont agree, the kids have different parents. Maybe Cincu started saving for her daughters college while she was pregnant. If bm didnt,why should Cincus daughter suffer, or the family have financial issues because her hubby is not only covering his half, but bms as well
|
cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
|
|
you hit the nail on the head...if we have not enough to cover it all for both in total then daughter will end up with a bigger percentage because i will contribute more for my bio child than my step child...my DH will contribute the same for both of his children.
--------------------
wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
|
greeneyes
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/08/08
Posts: 2847
|
|
Her husband CHOSE to have another child, knowing that he had existing and future responsibilities. If he couldn't deal with that by balancing both children equally, he shouldn't have had another child.
A solution would be that she pay for their daughter's education and her husband pays for his son's. If he doesn't have the money, his son doesn't go to college.
|
Sadie
addict
Reged: 06/03/05
Posts: 567
|
|
Greeneyes, I think what she is saying ( and I know that I am) is say the tuition is 5,000 ( just as example) Cin pays 2500, her hubby pays 2500 ( they are both working and keeping money seperate) for daughter, sons tuition is also 5,000 he pays 2500 to that, bm/child is responsible for the other 2500. Thats fair
|
greeneyes
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/08/08
Posts: 2847
|
|
You said, "without me (or a SM) DH likely won't be able to pay anything for SS's college."
So, then take you out of the equation and he shouldn't be paying anything towards anyone's college.
|
greeneyes
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/08/08
Posts: 2847
|
|
So if BM doesn't have that money, how does son feel when he sees his sister getting a free ride through college but he has to take out a loan?
Dad created this problem by having 2 kids with 2 different moms. I have no empathy for dad.
|
Cassie23
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/07/05
Posts: 14714
|
|
Greeneyes your scenario makes LITTLE sense if he is trying to keep it EQUAL for BOTH children. If he contributes HALF of the children's expenses that is keeping it equal. Cincsu (since she makes good money) contributes the other half for THEIR child. The BM (her SS's MOM) would contribute a half for her child.
It would NOT be equal if Dad contributed 100 percent to first child's college, but only 1/2 to second child.
|
PrincessJ
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 7176
Loc: 39.10 degrees North 94.58 degr...
|
|
This is why, even with an intact family. when you have child #1, you have to seriously think about having child #2 if you plan on saving for college for BOTH. At least, that's how I see it.
Maybe that's why my parents chose to pay for NONE of their eight children to go to college. If they couldn't pay for #8, it wouldn't be fair to pay for #1.
I dunno. Just a thought.
Regardless, none of us are impoverished and the majority completed higher education without much problem.
--------------------
I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
--Jack Handey
|
cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
|
|
either that or you decide you will pay for 1/2 of each or contribute equally where you can to both.
--------------------
wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
|
matart1
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 09/01/05
Posts: 2798
|
|
your arguement to Sadie's example makes no sense.
my husband's ex and him have 2 children - my husband and I have 2 children....what I spend my money on my children have no impact on their children if his money is not used.
his ex receives child support that is his portion of taking care of their children. she can blow it on bubble gum or save some for college.
her choices for their children's college education is her decision.
my chioces for my children's education is my decision.
same father but it all depends on how you want to spend your money.
--------------------
Life is a long lesson in humility.
|
cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
|
|
it isn't dad creating the problem if he is contributing equally to both of his children......
it isn't me creating the problem by contributing for my child: not all children get the same things as their cousins and friends.
it isn't BM creating the problem b/c she isn't obligated to pay for her child's college...
he should be grateful if 1/2 of his college is taken care of by anyone because at 18 all parental obligations end whether it is mom or dad.
--------------------
wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
|
cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
|
|
and if DH can't contribute towards SS's college then he won't contribute towards D's college either...but i will contribute toward D's college. so it is either both get 1/2 from DH and D get's 1/2 from me or both get nothing from DH and D gets 1/2 from me.... or they both get 0.5, 0.10, 0.15, 0.2 from DH and i contribute what i want to my D....
--------------------
wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
|
1966Gal
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 04/04/08
Posts: 10098
|
|
it isn't dad creating the problem if he is contributing equally to both of his children......
++++++++
I agree with that...AS LONG AS dad is contributing equally to both kids college.
Once kids are teens, it's not hard for them to understand.
Dad and mom send their son to college with their combined resources.
Dad and Cin send their daughter to college with their combined resources.
As long as dad has contributed equally to both kids, then it's fair.
--------------------
The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.
|
Redlegg
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26678
|
|
I am sorry, to not send someone to jail because it means they would not support their child is pointless and does not make sense. Why is it that not supporting a child can get you sent to jail, but you should not send someone to jail because they then can't support their child. You are sending them to jail for not supporting their child, its a hard world out there and I hate it for the children, but people are sent to jail everyday for crimes they commit and they don't care about their children getting supported, so to send someone to jail for not supporting their child just meant that they didn't care when they could support them, and they won't care after they go to jail. Me personally, I would save for my stepkids just like I would my kids, if they were no longer my stepkids, then they do not get my support. While in my care, they are equal. I cannot even begin to control what someone else's parents do, but I would make every child in my house feel like they are home. There is no legitimate argument for not getting child support, the threats are empty, the person not forced to pay is playing on the emotion of the people involved. They are users, life is tough, get over it, and live up to your obligations. This has no gender intent, but dammit, man up and pay your bills or go to jail.
|
gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30195
|
|
Lets show you some BASIC math.
College costs sould be SPLIT between the parents. If the the son is mad that Dad is only paying HALF of college, MAYBE he should ask MOM why sHE isn't contributing...
Oh yeah, Moms can't be WRONG, can they? You are so biased it's sickening!
Oh, BTW, I hope YOU haven't had sex with more than ONE man in your whole life, cause if so, you CHANCED creating children with two different men...
--------------------
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
|
cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
|
|
while i agree with you for the most part on saving equally...i think we will spend equally college is a huge expense. DH is paying a lot towards SS via CS that my daughter will never see. he sends SS $300/week when he is with his mom, plus we provide housing, etc. for him that will also be provided for D when she arrives. she'll probably have a few more clothes, toys and obviously food at hour house since she will be with us more than SS....but not to the tune of $300/week.
so, when it comes to college, i fully expect BM to be able to contribute some to her child considering she has received so much help to raise SS all these years.
--------------------
wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
|
RJ1
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/19/05
Posts: 5164
|
|
Hey I agree both parents should financially support their children. But...not paying is contempt of court first...it doesn't become criminal (really) until a certain level of nonpayment is met. And I know you'll agree with me...but CPs who violate the visitation agreement are also in contempt...but they never face jail time. There are definite inequalities in our justice system...
There is more importance put on money than there is parenting times...
Hell it's all screwed up isnt' it?
RJ
|
M5M5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/29/05
Posts: 11722
|
|
It's not dad's fault that BM can not afford her half of college.
I think it's ridiculous that a parent pay for a child's college anyway. He/she is no longer a child and there are TONS of programs they could make use of
|
greeneyes
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/08/08
Posts: 2847
|
|
What if BM has some money but not 1/2 and dad can give more then 1/2. Should dad refuse to give more then 1/2 and, in a sense, punish his son b/c mom can't give exactly 1/2?
|
greeneyes
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/08/08
Posts: 2847
|
|
If dad has access to financial resources and mom does not, I would wonder why dad wouldn't give more then 1/2. Why punish the kid?
I will ignore your usual gender rant. I do not care if this is about mom or dad. I don't think the kid should be punished for the mistakes of a parent, mom or dad.
If/when I have sex, I use protection. Oh, and, I have major infertility issues - my daughter was conceived only b/c I did invitro. My daughter is and will always be my only child.
|
M5M5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/29/05
Posts: 11722
|
|
I doubt dad would be able to afford more than half since he will also be paying half of his other child. BM should grow some brains and put money back for college. If BM can't afford half, son will have to come up with on his own, I suppose. He can blame mom for that.
|
gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30195
|
|
...expected to make up for MOM's shortcoming? They are NO LONGER MARRIED!
See, THIS is why I say you are biased. You make NO mention of MOM having to explain why HER ass can't work harder and earn more, NOPE, DADDY should just make up the difference. And even though Dad is giving HALF, and mom is giving LESS than half, it is DAD who would be punishing the child, right, NOT THE MOMMY.
You are TWISTED!
--------------------
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
|
greeneyes
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/08/08
Posts: 2847
|
|
It isn't about mom or dad - it is about helping their son.
I didn't say mom shouldn't explain why she can't provide her portion. She should.
I would hope that a child isn't punished by one parent b/c of the other parents shortcomings or choices. I can't see forcing my child to get a loan for college if her father can't or won't give his share, if I have the money to give.
|
greeneyes
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/08/08
Posts: 2847
|
|
But let's play the what if game.
What if dad does have access to more then 1/2 and mom doesn't have 1/2. Should dad refuse to give more then 1/2 b/c mom can't give her share?
|
M5M5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/29/05
Posts: 11722
|
|
Yes. He should pay for HALF and no more. If mom can't afford the other half, then the son always has the options of scholarships, grants, etc.
|
cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
|
|
and from whos point of view does dad have to have this money? from our point of view we can always invest extra for our retirement if there is any or for weddings, houses for the kids, etc. there is always something. even bill gates has responsibilities.
from mom's point of view DH will always be Mr. moneybags because we budget our money and save it....she doesn't save anything and is a huge spender....so, from her point of view she will continue to spend her way through the next 12 years while DH and i work to save money.
so, no, he should pay for 1/2 and no more...even if he can afford it it won't hurt a child to take responsibility for themself.
i worked through college to pay things other than rent and tuition...like phone, food, computer, fun, extras....and when i graduated i bought my mother a brand spanking new honda accord EX to pay back my parents for what they had done for me. i was earning a decent salary and could afford to do it.
so, really what you are saying is give kids a sense of entitlement, and i don't agree with that in the least.
--------------------
wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
|
greeneyes
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/08/08
Posts: 2847
|
|
I could never do that to my child. If I have the money, I pay, regardless of what her father can't or won't do.
|
Miranda
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
|
|
I don't know why you are all even arguing this. NO child or children get exactly the same amount of money spent on them over their lifetime. That is stupid to even argue. One may need braces one may not, one may have medical issues, one may not. The biggest problem is when parents keep tabs on who gets what.
My oldest son and step son were born to parent in their early twenties who did not make a lot of money, and I did not have a college education (and in my case college dramtactically increased my earning capability). My youngest son was born to parents who were older and made more money. So guess what? Odds are my 6 year old will have it better than my 14 year old son or my 16 year old SS.
It is no different than my brother, who is 8 years younger than myself, had it better than me. And guess what? I am OK! No love lossed, it is called life people.
--------------------
13.1...because I am only half crazy!
Edited by Miranda (06/25/08 06:04 PM)
|
greeneyes
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/08/08
Posts: 2847
|
|
I don't believe in punishing a child b/c of the choices of the other parent. It has nothing to do with entitlement b/c the child isn't expecting me to pay. I do it b/c I love my child and want to do whatever I can to help that child. That was the way I was raised and that is how I raise my daughter.
|
M5M5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/29/05
Posts: 11722
|
|
Good for you. And your child will grow up to expect you to pay for everything, and not take responsibility for herself. Kids these days...with parents like you...no wonder they feel they are "entitled".
What works for you, will not work for everyone. Not everyone has the same beliefs as you do. And that is ok.
|
katiefedup
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/26/05
Posts: 11669
|
|
Cin, yesterday you said that the BM only made 30g a year. You went on and described that 30g as unacceptable to you even when you were in college. How do you expect her (BM) to save any money when even you as a college student wouldn't be able to survive on mere pennies?
|
greeneyes
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/08/08
Posts: 2847
|
|
Oh please. Plenty of people who grew up without extras are irresponsible and have entitlement issues.
I do what I do b/c I can and I want to, not b/c my daughter expects me to. She is told no very often.
|
Miranda
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
|
|
[quote]Cin, yesterday you said that the BM only made 30g a year. You went on and described that 30g as unacceptable to you even when you were in college. How do you expect her (BM) to save any money when even you as a college student wouldn't be able to survive on mere pennies? [/quote]
That is not CIn's problem. If you want better then do better.
--------------------
13.1...because I am only half crazy!
|
cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
|
|
she receives plenty more assistance from the three fathers of her three children, katie, and all of the government assistance she steals!
and if she can't save for college for her 3 children....not my problem. i help a lot with my SS now, but won't once he is 18 to the detrmiment of my child.
--------------------
wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
|
greeneyes
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/08/08
Posts: 2847
|
|
What happens if DH wants to help his child after he is 18?
|
cincsu
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 4686
Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
|
|
then DH can help his child after 18....can you not freaking read? i said if DH has the money to help his child he can contribute to his college.
--------------------
wife of 1, mother of 2, stepmother of .3475902453
|
M5M5
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/29/05
Posts: 11722
|
|
I'm sure if he wants to help out his child, he can...it just won't be as much as he will for the MINOR child he still has! Once a child reaches adult age, he can no longer expect to be fully supported by one parent, especially when that other parent has minor children still in the household. There comes a time when the ADULT child will have to learn to take care of himself. That's not saying that you still can't help out the adult child...if you can afford it.
|
KrazyKat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/05/07
Posts: 1714
Loc: Somewhere in the Middle
|
|
Courts sent my cousin to jail for non payment of Child Support.
He was there for 9 months. BTW, in jail, they have jobs. And they make $$ each day which goes towards their payments. Cousin's job was one in which he worked along side the highways cleaning up the city. He earned $25 a day. That money went towards his court fee's and CS.
Not sure if it's done like that everywhere, but that's what happened to Cousin in Texas.
--------------------
If you have a problem, build a bridge and get over it!
|
Arden
old hand
Reged: 02/27/06
Posts: 858
|
|
Just a general response.
I am not a fan of courts making parents of divorce pay for college. Not a fan of jail time for CS arrears either. Unless of course the NCP is filthy rich and hiding money in offshore accounts.
I think some kind of work program would work better. Get in arrears and you will be picking trash and dead animals up off the roads. Cut the grass in the medians with a push mower. Paint building, line parking lots, clean out drainage ditches. County or state can pay them minimum wage into their arrears account, which will go out monthly to the CP. The one that are unable to do that type of work can do the paperwork, accounting and whatnot on the others. The NCP's that are behind due to something beyond their control would probably welcome a chance to get things right. The ones that aren't will probably find another way real fast to get caught up or not get behind in the first place.
|
Arden
old hand
Reged: 02/27/06
Posts: 858
|
|
About paying for college, I am going to use Cincsu as an example only because she has posted in this thread.
You can not use her child as an example if you don't include SS siblings on his mothers side. Say Cincsu kicks in the difference her husband and BM can't, her SS gets a paid for education. Well, he still has two other siblings that won't be going, if BM can't afford it for him, she sure can't afford the others either. In the whole big picture of things there is no way to make everything fair. Now if he lived with them full time it might be another story.
On the other hand what if BM takes up with a Bill Gates or she buys a winning lotto ticket. She then can afford to pay for all her kids to get a higher education. What if something went south in Cincsu's life and she could no longer afford her half to send her child. Would it be expected for BM to pony for Cinsues child just because she is related to SS?
Too many what if's in life. That is why I don't like to see the courts involve themselves in college issues.
|
Redlegg
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26678
|
|
I think its fair to say you help your kids, and your stepkids as much as you can. That is different for different people, there is no one set formula that works for all, people make different amounts, save differently, etc. You help, and you teach your kids to help themselves. Its called growing up, no one has a right to have a free college education, you have to earn it whether its with a scholarship, or jobs, or loans to pay back. Everyone can have one, but people get wrapped around the axle about parents paying for it, and that is BS, they should help their children help themselves.
|
KrazyKat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/05/07
Posts: 1714
Loc: Somewhere in the Middle
|
|
It's a LEGAL fact that a child is considered an adult at the age of 18.
IMO, that is when the CS should end. The child is considered a Legal Adult and in the eyes of the law, the parents are no longer responsible.
So I totally don't get why in the world there are CO's that state CS is until the child turns 21. There are not that many CP's who are truly supporting their child at that age. And if they are, they haven't done a very good job as a parent to make the kid self sufficient.
--------------------
If you have a problem, build a bridge and get over it!
|
Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
|
|
You know Cassie... it's a tough call..... Do I think a person should go to jail over CS? (having paid it like I had too, my answer is no).... but also having to pay like I had to pay.. it pisses me off to NO end when a deadbeat (MALE OR FEMALE) does not support their child. Do you hurt child #1? I dunno....... I know that I hurt child #2 (My son) because of things I could not buy HIM because I had to pay for child #1...... it's tough. I gave up a lot and there were times (before I was married) that i lived off beans and rice. I refused to get behind in my CS.. I would eat glass before getting behind in CS. It was a "pride" thing with me..... yeah, look at me... a MOM having to pay 1K of CS to a man.......I would of ended up homeless before I missed a payment to him... just because.
I feel in JL's situation... she has tried so many times....... I don't see her doing this out of spite.. at all... just like Katie... look how long it's taken her.....
I feel a time comes when you do the crime, you do the time and "maybe" you straighten your ass up and get a job and start doing what you are suppose to do.
I think his CS is too high right now... and i think it needs to be re-evaluated.... but that's not my problem...... it's up to him to request that. (no offense JL).... but I KNOW this dude is having a hell of a time paying... but he can find 2 to 3 jobs... he has a debt, he needs to pay it.
|
spinnerdegrassi
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 08/20/06
Posts: 7947
|
|
Here in Missouri it can be up to age 22 if the child is in higher education. The qualifications to keep that CS going? 9 credit hrs per semester, and a 2.0 gpa. That is utterly ridiculous, and basically allows an adult to keep on collecting CS for themselves (since the CS is then sent to the "adult" directly) for doing nothing more than doing something half assed.
|
greeneyes
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/08/08
Posts: 2847
|
|
At 21, many are still in college or just finishing up college. Many do not have fulltime jobs yet. I don't consider the parents who are supporting these kids as doing a piss poor job at parenting.
If a 21 year old is not in school or not working and a parent is paying for everything, that is a different story.
|
matilda
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/11/04
Posts: 2087
|
|
Runs, were you able to get the savings account with your ex resolved? As I remember he was supposed to have been putting a lot of the CS you gave him into a college account for your D, but there was hardly any money in it.
|
Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
|
|
No.... I've requested 3 times now for the deposits... and he has refused. I have 2 options.... go back and fight it.... and pay another assload or in a year (after initial agreement) ask for increase in his CS).... he does pay a lovely $135.00 to the account now.... but I can go back on my own to CSE and ask that it be reviewed... it's labeled in the papers as CS (even though I don't get it). SO, I decided to take that route. I will do an increase in Oct and put ALL of it into that account.
I looked at it today and it's a whopping $4582.00..... sickening considering it should of been over $37K (according to Gecko when she looked at it). I am thinking he didn't pay this month so I need to go to the bank and ask. My name was finally added to the account in Dec, so I have total access to it...... I check it each month and he's been paying his $135.00 up until this month....
It frustrates me.... but I just haven't had the energy to really fight him on it... I figure it would be better to just wait my year... then get a 1K increase in CS and just add it. I did start another fund on my own and I am putting around $600 a month in it...... for her college.
Edited by Runswithscissors (06/25/08 09:26 PM)
|
matilda
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/11/04
Posts: 2087
|
|
The most important thing is that you have custody of your daughter now. Hopefully he was really saving it in a separate account for your D. He seems like the controlling type who wants to play the hero by presenting it to her when she goes to college.
|
Runswithscissors
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 05/29/04
Posts: 13381
|
|
I would be estatic if that was the case and yeah... he would be a hero!! I'd might kiss him!! >wink<
I just haven't pushed the issue.. it's one of those things you think about.... get pissed off about and then forget about it.... as like you said I do have custody and nothing could ever make me happier!
In his defense, I will say that he does pay that money to the account, he does pay for 1/2 of her activities and he does send money directly to her.... which I am fine with...... it does help!! He just sent me a check today for her camps... so he is doing the right things.. it's just so frustrating that the money isn't where I "thought" it would be... and maybe, just maybe... it is somewhere!!! One can hope!!
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
