redhead58
recently joined
Reged: 06/14/08
Posts: 6
|
|
Hi. I am new here. Looking for advice, words of wisdom, hope for the future. Sorry...this is long. I hope some wise people out there will bear with me and read this in order to provide some guidance. Thanks in advance.
This week, my husband told me our marriage is over. But he wants us to still live together until the market returns (not put our house on the market for another one to three years) and gradually split up our business and personal assets while maintaining a "friendship". I put friendship in quotes because I am mystified as to how this can work.
Here is some background.
My husband and I have been married for about 14 1/2 years....living together a total of 16 years. When we first got together (early 90's), I was having some troubles with my first business (due to the bank going out of business and poor economy). He had a high paying job and helped me out. We bought a huge beautiful home and he helped me start a new business by supporting our living expenses and also providing money here and there to finance growth of the business. During the first 7 years, he switched jobs four times (all high paying). I always thought it was odd that he changed jobs so many times but he informed me that it was normal in his field. Ok....gave him the benefit of the doubt.
During this time, I took care of our home and also worked on building our business (which was the same type of business I had before). He continued to earn a very good salary that supported our home and also provided some financing for the new business. His goal was to ultimately work in the business with me full time and have the business support us. He wanted to be part of building a business from the ground up. I was reluctant to do this because I grew up in my families business and knew how difficult it could be working with your spouse. Long story short....he won that argument and after our first 7 years together, he left the high paying jobs (he hated the jobs and just did it for the money) and started working with me in the biz full time. One aspect of that is great....I trusted him and had someone really smart to bounce ideas off and also have someone to help with the tough decisions. The bad aspect....we lived and worked together plus we have VERY different work styles...and our relationship has always been fragile/rocky....right from the get go. Deep down in my heart, I knew working together would not be good for us....but he wanted it so much when we first got together and I was too insecure to insist no.
He has now been in the biz with me for about 7 or 8 years but he does not do much. He thinks he contributes equally to the biz but I do not feel this is true. He procrastinates, he side steps, he blame shifts and he spends more time watching political shows on tv, reading the newspaper on his computer, chatting on bulletin boards, playing with our pets, taking naps, etc.
Yes...he did and still does contribute to the business. No disagreement there. But on a day to day basis....I do so much more....I work many more hours, do many more of the day to day biz chores, deal with all of our clients and vendors, etc.
And when he decided to work on something, he always wanted to change how we did it because he disagreed with how I had set things up (ie the bookkeeping system).
And now (in the last year or so) he does even less work in the business because he wants to focus on "his" business.
On top of this, he hardly ever wants to spend time with me. Getting him to do stuff is like pulling teeth. For example, during the week, I'll suggest making plans to do something fun that weekend and his standard reply is "we'll see. Saturday is a long way off. We'll see." He would rather spend time alone doing something by himself or with our pets than doing something with me.
For a number of years, in spite of our difficulties working together, our business was very successful and doing quite well.
Well fast forward to present time...the last 18 months have been very difficult for us financially. The economy has really cut into our business. And one of my original fears (having our finances totally dependent on just one source of income) came true.....our income dropped significantly.
During our 16 years together when ever we had a disagreement or fight, he would always say that we should not be together....we have fundamental differences. He would also complain about all of my short coming and issues and baggage. I would walk away from these fights feeling sad and useless and that everything was my fault. So I would try to be a better person and improve myself so we could be happy together. And after a while things would blow over and we'd seem to be okay again.
There would be periods of time when things would be calm and going well between us. Then, it would seem, it would change in an instant...he would be angry with me about something minor. I could never understand why he would get so angry with me. But I would do my best to either stay out of his way and give him his space....or apologize over and over.
About 2 years ago, he threatened me yet again...this time actually using the divorce word. He was angry about our debt level (partly because we had been reinvesting profits back into the business and not saving for a rainy day). He threatened that if we did not whittle down our debt by a certain amount at year's end....he was done.
That is right about the time the economy really started to down turn and over the next few months, while business was steady and we were not reinvesting in the biz, we did not work down the debt much. I was so stressed and worried about this....but he was fine about it at that time.
Things were calm between us for a couple of months (1st quarter 2007) but when I decided to go on an annual buying trip for the biz (bad decision on my part) he got angry again. The purpose of which was to freshen up our inventory and purchase things that were not our regular tried and true...but things that were new and exciting..to set us apart from competition.
I apologized for going on the buying trip and tried my best to earn his trust. That summer we started seeing a marriage counselor (I had been trying for years to get him to go with me but he had refused and felt they were a waste of time). His goal for seeing the counselor was for figuring out what went wrong with our relationship (not to fix it) so he would at least have a better understanding of why/how it happened. He also wanted us to separate the business into two separate businesses...one for him and one for me (different categories of the product/service we sell).
My goal for seeing the counselor was to have a neutral place to discuss things and hopefully for an independent person to not just referee....but possibly point out who needs to work on specific bad behavior tendancies (for lack of a better phrase). I was not looking to have the counselor lay blame. But I did want her to help both of us recognize what we were doing/saying and how it was impacting the other person. And I felt that if I was doing something wrong or bad....if I heard it from her rather than my spouse....then I would say...okay....that's on me.....I can work on that and try to improve. By the same token, if my spouse has certain bad patterns...that maybe he would accept constructive criticism from the counselor/mediator.
I guess I also wanted some sort of validation that the problems with us were either my fault (so I would know for sure it was me since that's how he always made me feel)...or if he was actually an emotional abuser and possibly address his behovior somehow. My husband has always been very careful to act nicely in front of other people but with me, at home....he is always very different. I started seeing a therapist on my own (2 years ago) because it was just so stressful living with him and feeling like everything was my fault.
When we first started seeing our marriage counselor (a different person than whom I see individually), he was very careful not to act out. But after a few months....his true colors came out and the counselor saw how he could be.
She called him out on a few things here and there....but if he got too wound up about something, she would back off. I am guessing she was either concerned that later on he may hurt me....or maybe she was afraid that if she pushed too hard...he would blow out of seeing her all together.
After about 7 or 8 months of seeing her, we seemed to be making some progress....not sure if it was because of the counselor or if it was because we were in a "good" period and I was not doing anything to upset my husband. Our meetings with the counselor had gotten further apart since things were going well. We had theoretically split the biz into two divisions (at least from my husbands perspective). We have not really financially split the biz in the way it needs to be done to make each division self sufficient but in his mind, he sees that the business has been split. (sorry if this sounds confusing).
For the last few months we have been getting along better and we have been trying to go out on a date once a week on Wednesdays. We have missed it a few weeks for various reasons, but overall, during the last few months we have taken some nice days here and there to do something fun together.
When we met with the counselor this week, things started off fine and she even suggested that we did not need to meet again for some time since things were going so well. But about half way through the session, the subject turned to us selling the house and moving to another city/town (my husband hates the city we live in and wants to move out of here as soon as the real estate market comes back). I have been resistant to moving for numerous reasons....this is a good location for our biz, I love our house and neighborhood and I really dread all the time needed to keep the house presentable while on the market (all while working 70 hours a week) plus having to pack everything and move it ourselves. But lately, I started to realize the really deep reason why I was having anxiety about moving. And that was because I have friends here, a daily routine I like, group activities, etc. I basically work alone all day long...I spend a great deal of time alone. And my husband is really the loner type. He does not need alot of interaction with people and from my perspective, he seems to prefer being alone....reading a book, watching tv, playing on the computer, walking the dog. I am the total opposite. I need interaction with people. My first choice is to do fun things with him. But if he is not interested then I try to do things with friends (I play on a couple of team sports during the year, I do other outdoors activities with friends, etc.). Our marriage is not the type of relationship I hoped and dreamed of....it is not like many of my friends marriages whom do alot together (like vacations, day trips, socializing with other couples, etc.).
I finally realized a few years ago that he can not/will not fulfill my life in terms of social activities. Once a week (if that much)of going on a date is not enough for me. I do work long hours and do spend a great deal of time alone....so I'm not a dweebe. But I do also like being with other people and having fun.
So my great fear about moving away was that I would have to start all over in a new area, making friends (which is hard for me and takes a long time) and that I would be all alone again because my spouse does not spend much time with me (except for when we sit in the family room with our pets watching tv). I want to get out of the house and do fun things and he wants to either stay home ....or if he does do things away from the house, he likes to do them alone.
So this came up during our session and he got very angry. I was trying to explain that I had recently come to realize why I was having anxiety about moving away. I had explained that while we have been going out on dates once a week and having a nice time, I needed more interaction. He was my first choice to spend time with, but if he was not available, I was trying not to be too dependent on him or clingy...and had sought out friendships and activities elsewhere. And now I was afraid that I would lose all of that when we move and I would be alone again and I was really feeling lonely. He was fuming. He felt that I was complaining about things when from his perspective things had been going real well between us lately. Even the counselor was trying to help him see that I was not complaining about him....I was merely explaining why I was worried about moving away (I never said I would not move...I was just saying that I was having reservations and hoping that maybe we would not move).
After our session, he would not even talk to me and when he did (on the car ride home) he was very abrupt and obviously steaming. When we got home he announced that given the way things ended at the session, it would be best to not go on our date (which was the next day; we were supposed to go hiking together) and that he wanted to go hiking alone...he needed time to think about things.
Okay....I felt he needed his space but I also knew that he was probably going to come back and throw divorce at me again.
Sure enough, he went by himself.....came home....and the next day told me our marriage was over. He was devastated at how the session went the other day and that along with his day hiking by himself made him realize that we just can't be married.
But here is the clincher. He does not want to be married to me. But he thinks we need to still live together for the next year or two because the housing market is soft and also to continue working through splitting up the biz gradually.
He tells me that he still loves me and wishes the best for me, but after this weeks meeting, he realizes he can not give me what I want/need and that we both have a different goal for what our relationship should be.
I certainly agree about that....I really want to be with someone that wants to be with me and shares my interests and hobbies. By the same token, I am worried about trying to live with him for another year or two. How can I possibly move on if we are still living together like roommates. I will feel even lonelier (if that is even possible). Plus, I will be providing most of the income to support us since my part of the business (the work that I do) brings in about 90% of our total income and the work that he does (his division) barely brings in 10% (and that's before we even calculate the expenses for his part of the biz and his cost of goods). And at the end of this 1 or 2 year period, when we go our separate ways, I will still have to split all of our assets (both the house and the biz) with him and splitting the biz in half could possibly force me out of business (it's complicated).
I am so appreciative of him supporting us in those early years. And he has been my best friend (and I thought soulmate) all these years...even though he is not the warmest/fuzziest partner around. But for the last 7+ years, the biz has been supporting us and he has had the luxury of not working a boring 9 to 5 job....but instead have a VERY relaxing schedule and doing what he wants, when he wants, etc. I kind of think he is using me....to support him while he gets his own part of the biz up and running....or to support him until we can sell the house and he can get his chunk of money out of it then and go be by himself.
So sorry for the very long story. But the background will hopefully provide some incite.
Is there anyone out there that has had any similar problems (even part of this) that can give me some advice?
I still love him....but I think I am also just afraid of going through the divorce, losing my business (because of him) and being completely alone.
|
ProudToBeDad
recently joined
Reged: 06/14/08
Posts: 8
|
|
Wow. A long gut wrencher. The marriage appears over. I don't see love or fulfillment on either side. Unfortunately therapy sessions are not always the answer. They tend to villify one or the other, and rightfully so sometimes. No one likes to have their faults pointed out. Men in particular do not like therapists. I do not see cohabitation as a viable resolution. The business has to be split along with home, debts, equity in cars. Your divisional business idea has merit. I suggest a mediated non-contested divorce. You both will be liable for debts and the house may have to take a hit. Maybe you trade a portion of the business for him to have the house. Unfortunately his poor work ethic still gets him half. If you can put in black and white and stand 12-20 revisions and some give and take you can call him out on his "being friends". Do not live in this mess you are better than that. You still are missing a thousand details that need to be seen by a professional. Best of luck. Get a lawyer soon, he could be a step ahead of you. Remember that you can do this nicely if you both choose to do so.
|
redhead58
recently joined
Reged: 06/14/08
Posts: 6
|
|
Thanks for your reply and insight. Your suggestions and input are much appreciated.
As much as I fear things ending and going out into the world alone again, I agree with you that cohabitation won't work. I actually think that is what he has wanted for a long time now.....us just living together as roommates. Maybe for economic reasons....maybe for comfort zone reasons. Maybe for laziness.
He tells me he still loves me and cares deeply about me....but I think his actions and behavior speak differently.
As for my reasons for staying here so long.....he has had me convinced that I have alot of shortcomings and issues. He makes it sound like I won't be happy no matter where I am. I have always thought of myself as an energetic, outgoing person with lots of interests and positive qualities. But he makes me feel so bad about myself that I then doubt myself and how the world sees me. He makes me feel inadequate and difficult to get along with. Yet I think I am the type of person that really tries hard to get along with everyone and tries to be friends with people as much as possible. I try to accommodate, appease and compromise as much as possible.
Part of my reason for staying here so long is the fear that maybe he is right that nobody will want to be around me.
Another huge reason I have stayed here, especially the last 2 years which have been particularly bad, is because if we split up, he intends to force me to liquidate our business so he can get his half out of it. And if we liquidate, we'll get 10 cents on the dollar and it will pretty much destroy the business and make it very difficult for me to start over and support myself or work. One of the assets of the business is our website. I started the website with a friend/client of mine many years ago (when my husband was still working in another industry). At the time (1996) my husband thought the website was a waste of time and a distraction but when it quickly grew and became a good source of business for us....he changed his tune. He worked on the website part time (here and there) and made some positive contributions to the look and content and mechanics of the site. When he left his other career and became "full time" (notice the quotes) with me in our business, one of his main responsibilities became managing the website. So even though I created the website, I came up with the domain name (which is a really good one), I registered the domain name and such.....he did/does contribute to it's growth and success.
When he brought up divorce a couple of years ago, I had suggested that we split the biz into two parts and I bought some really great domain names for his part of the biz. At the time, I suggested he use those websites to build up his own web presence. He refused. He said he would lose all the traffic that we now get to our main website. I suggested he still keep all his stuff on our website, but that he builds a mirror site for just his stuff so that he could gradually build up traffic on his own while still maintaining presense on our very active website. He didn't want to do that either. He gave me some lame excuse about how the search engines penalize you for mirror websites. I didn't want to push it with him because I have found over the years that if he does not want to do something, my trying to push it only gets him angry and he blows up. I get very stressed and anxious with yelling and verbal abuse so I keep trying to avoid it by going along with his replies. Verrrrrry frustrating !!
I think he just didn't want to spend the time working on it because it would involve alot more time and effort than he was already exerting.
He feels that we should "share" the main website address and still go our separate ways.
His portion of the business can't afford to pay half the expenses so it's a good deal for him. My part of the business pays all of our expenses at this point (website service, phone bills, utilities, rent, business insurance, health insurance, local computer networking consultant, etc. etc. etc.). So it's a good deal for him to stay on our website not just because of the high traffic and visibility it gets....but also because it's a free ride for him.
And I am afraid that if he forces me to liquidate the business, the website domain will also have to be sold and then I will have no means of conducting business at all because I will lose that visibility. Sure I could start over with a new domain name and use my original photos and content (much of what is sold on our website is my intellectual property and work) but it would take me a long time (possibly a couple of years) to build up the traffic to where it is now. Which means it will take a long time for potential clients to find me and my source of income will pretty much dry up until that website traffic is built up again.
The actual inventory is one issue....I don't want to lose it all to liquidation. But the website address is a bigger issue because that is really my lifeline to new customers. I don't do a lot of repeat business so capturing new business and clients is critical to survival.
Our two biggest assets are the house and the business. A couple of years ago when he mentioned divorce, I suggested we offset my share of the house against his share in the business with him also still keeping the smaller part of the business that he likes and wants to continue. That was not enough for him.....he said at the time that he would also want the website or for us to at least share the website.
Sharing the website is pretty much still forcing us to work together.
I feel like I am between a rock and a hard place.
He could make a lot of money if he went back to work in his former profession......alot more money than I have ever made running my business. But he refuses to go back to work. For me....even if I tried to go out and get a job in the work force, I would not make nearly as much money as I could running my own business....and would probably have a tough time making ends meet. And the way the economy is these days, I would probably have a real tough time getting a job anyhow.
I have owned and run my own company (small business) for over 20 years. Not alot on my resume that would get me a high paying power job anywhere. I have alot of formal education but in a field (retail) that historically does not pay too well. And in our community, there is almost zero chance of getting a job in my field anyhow. So I would have to move out of the area, probably to a very large city.
As for offsetting his share of the biz with our house....he does not want to put the house on the market right now because the market is so soft. He feels putting the house on the market right now is like having a "fire sale".
As much as I love our house and don't want to move, I am really starting to think that putting the house on the market at this point is the thing to do. It may not sell for a very long time.....and we don't have to put a cheapo price on it. But at least it is on the market and maybe someone will come along and pay close to what we want for it.
But he keeps saying that putting the house on the market now would be a fire sale. I don't understand his logic. He wants to sell the house and move out of this city in the worst way....but he won't take the actions to do so.
I don't know if this is a "controlling" thing on his part (trying to control me) or if he is conflicted about selling/moving or if he is conflicted about separating/divorcing. Maybe it's all of the above. I just know that this yo-yo he has had me on for so many years is just about to snap.
|
MaritimeGuy
addict
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 532
|
|
Redhead
Sorry to hear you're going through such a difficult time. This stuff is never easy. I think basically you need to discuss with your husband the same concerns you have expressed here.
It sounds to me as buying him out is the way to go. It doesn't sound as though he has the work ethic to make a go of the business on his own. As opposed to liquidating everything is there a way to pay him out over time?
As for living together while not really married anymore I strongly advise against it. I lived with my ex for 7 months after it was decided the marriage was over in order to have time find a decent place to live and it was the most difficult 7 months of my life. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
|
redhead58
recently joined
Reged: 06/14/08
Posts: 6
|
|
Hi Maritime Guy. Thanks for your input. For the last two years, when ever we have talked about splitting up the biz, he has told me that he would never take paper back from me.....he did not trust me. He has always said that I would have to pay him a lump sum.
Even when I suggested trading my interest in the house for his interest in the biz, he still seems to not want to move forward with this - I am guessing because he does not want to put the house on the market right now....he wants to wait a couple more years for the real estate market to bounce back. If he were to agree to this sort of split....I could go my own way and could still make a living....but he would be forced to go out and get a real job to pay the mortgage and live in the house (since he does not want to put it on the market right now).
He wants it all his way.
I am worried that if we go to mediation or through divorce court that the "powers to be" will force me to liquidate the biz and sell off the inventory, assets and website name which will force me out of biz and prevent me from earning any income. At least I WANT to work and keep my biz going. He does not seem to want to work and he just wants everything handed to him.
I don't know how these types of splits work and am really afraid I will lose my ability to support myself.
|
MaritimeGuy
addict
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 532
|
|
You certainly have a lot of complicating factors. I wish I could be of more help. I think you need the input of someone that specializes in divorce when there's a family business involved. Knowing likely outcomes should it go to court will give you a baseline for trying to negotiate something with your husband.
At the same time don't forget to take care of yourself. Aside from the financial aspects of this there are no doubt emotional ones as well. Make sure you're dealing with those so you'll be in the best frame of mind to make decisions when the time comes.
|
redhead58
recently joined
Reged: 06/14/08
Posts: 6
|
|
Thanks Maritime. Sage advice. The emotional side is tough...especially because he gives me mixed signals all the time. One day he says it's over...and then if I seem ready to move on, he back paddles. I guess that is normal and probably happens with many relationships that are in tough shape.
|
MaritimeGuy
addict
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 532
|
|
I think mixed signals are pretty typical. I suspect on one hand he thinks there is potential the grass is greener on the other side, however when you show signs of being prepared to move on he second guesses himself wondering if he's giving up something he'll regret.
I think the prudent thing to do is focus on your own needs for now. He has to make up his own mind about what he wants. You don't want to be living in limbo twisting yourself inside out to please hiim while he sits on the fence. I think of it like, "if you truly love something...set it free...if it comes back its yours...if it doesn't it never was." Not easy I know.
|
redhead58
recently joined
Reged: 06/14/08
Posts: 6
|
|
I think the hardest part of this for me is the mixed signals. Two weeks ago he told me the marriage was over, there was no future for us and he wanted a divorce. After the initial devastation I felt for a couple of days, I slowly started to get my bearings and think about what steps to take to implement separating/divorce. I started to make a list of things we/I should probably do and I started to think about my life as single again. I actually got to the point where I wanted to move on with my life and get out of this relationship as soon as possible.
I started out by not spending time with my spouse when in the house, trying to focus on my work and daily projects. We usually spend the evenings in our family room with our dogs, watching tv, reading, etc. For a few nights, I did not join him in the family room, and watched tv by myself in another room while working on my compuer. I started making plans with other people.
He started asking me to join him for family time at night....he wanted me to sleep in the same room with him and he suggested a couple of activities we could do that week as a break from work.
I did end up spending time with him in the family room after awhile....but more so to be with our pets and watch a particular show that was on. He is the one that wants to continue living together as "just friends" so that's how I approached it. I was just watching tv with a friend. I did not come out and state this (which I probably should have in hindsight) but at the time, I figured that was what he wanted and I had reached the same conclusion.
Later on when I suggested that we should put our house on the market.....he came back with all sorts of reasons as to why we should not put the house on the market right now.
So now that I am actually trying to move forward with things....he wants to step backwards. He is the one that said our marriage was over and there was no future. He is always the one that says that. And when I start to move on, he pulls me back.
Today he is now furious with me because I want to take a couple of days off this week to go hiking with friends and he feels I am being selfish because he wants to take some days off to go hiking by himself. He feels that I should pick one day and he gets the other day. We have an elderly pet at home that should not be left alone for too long a period. So now my husband feels that I am being selfish because I want to monopolize the two good weather days of the coming week (it has been raining alot here lately so it's been tough to get out and go hiking for a few weeks).
I kept saying I did not want to discuss this right now....we could discuss it later. But he kept following me around, bullying me and saying he was the one that a few weeks ago thought things were going really well between us and when I started "complaining" at the marriage counselors, he realized at that point that I just like to complain. And that's when he decided that our marriage had no future.
?????
Even the counselor tried to tell him at that session that I was not complaining about him or attacking him. But he only heard what he wanted to hear.
He tells me things are over....then when I start to move on he acts like things are okay between us. And when I continue to make my own plans, he blows up because I won't accommodate his needs.
Is this normal????
I admit that I am being selfish in wanting to take two days off this week to go hiking. But I am also trying to move on with my life. I do agree that we have a joint responsibility to take care of our elderly pet. So I do feel guilty about wanting to take the days off. But I am also needing to get out and do things away from our house. I need to get out and enjoy life, get away from the negativity here and be with people that enjoy my company.
Yes that is selfish. But should I really be so concerned with what he thinks of me at this point? He's already told me that our marriage is over and he just wants to be friends.
|
MaritimeGuy
addict
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 532
|
|
I don't think you're being selfish at all. Two days away getting away from everything can be a great way to clear your head. The impression I get is you came up with the idea first but now that he's heard it he wants to make you "compromise" so he can do the same thing. He can always go next week. It's no big deal.
The mixed signals are difficult to interpret. Any chance he has someone else in the wings? When things are looking good with her he's cold to you and when things aren't looking so good with her he's nicer to you as his back up plan?
In any case it strikes me that he's trying to manipulate you. If he is committed to making your marriage work he shouldn't be throwing in your face "it's over". To me those are the kind of words you can't take back.
The only way your marriage is going to work is if both of you are 100% committed to making it work. As long as he's waffling like he is I'd think you'd be best to continue forging ahead to go it on your own. Maybe at some point he'll realize what he's losing and commit himself to working on things. If not, you'll be on your way to life on your terms.
|
|
0 registered and 1 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator:
Print Topic
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Rating:
Topic views: 2760
|
|
|
|
|
|
UBB.threads™ 6.5.1.1
|
Easily Connect With a Lawyer or Mediator
Have Divorce Professionals from Your Area Contact You!
|
|
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
