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mullan
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Living in a nightmare
      #435738 - 08/04/08 02:17 AM

Hello, I am new and have a situation that I need outside opinions on. Sometime in June my husband told me he wanted a divorce. I am a Christian, he is not. And divorce did not seem like the right thing to me. I had made it clear to him that I was going to keep trying. In Oct he served me with divorce papers. I had a feeling for some time there was someone else. I had asked him several times and he always denied it. Late Oct I caught him leaving the house around 1am and walking down the street. The next night after work I confronted him. He finally admited he was "in love" with someone. I asked if he had slept with her and he said they had been intimate. For the last 4 months I had been working so hard to love him even though he was not responding. We had talks and he would say things that made me think there might be a chance. In hindsight I was in extreme denial but that night my world came to a stand still. I snapped and lashed out and tried to slap him across the face. he blocked my arm and pushed me to the ground. When I got on my feet I was yelling how dare you push me. He was in my face calling me vile names. He had me pinned to the wall while he was yelling at me. I was trying to push him away and when I could not get away I grabbed his neck and dug my nails in and pushed away from me. (fyi.. he is 6'2 235lbs, I am 5'4 1xx lbs) I was fighting back trying to get away from him. When I finally did I left the room and told him I wanted him out of the house. He said you cant kick me out of MY house. i said yes I can. he said OH YEAH, THEN YOUR GOING TO JAIL. I went in the living/dinning room and i was so upset all I could do is say How could you. He got in my face again still calling me every name in the book. He went to the dinning table pulled out the phone book and was looking for the police number. Long story long, the police came to the door. Because he had marks and blood on his neck I was taken to jail. I spent 12 hours there and because the kids were in the house I was charged with 4th degree felony assault even thought i had sent them outside when the yelling started. When I was released, I was not allowed to go home. I have 3 kids and was terrified I would not be able to see them. When I was arrained i was so scared I did not hear them say the charge was reduced to harrasment so I asked for a trial instead of pleading guilty and taking a fine. My lawyer advised me to request a restraining order which would give me temp custody and the house. So I did and it was granted. This really pissed him off and he went to the DA and insisted they charge me with 4th degree assault and not harrasment. This charge comes with the possibility of jail time. He protested the restraining order and the judge removed it. Even thought my husband had been physically abusive to my oldest son and i had my pastor on the stand saying he had seen my husband in a rage and it had made him scarred for his physical saftey. You see my husband has been verbally abusive for a long time and he gets angry very quickly. I can see this so clearly know and I feel like a fool for allowing it for so long.
So because I had the No-Contact order from the criminal case he was able to kick me out of the house. I have no family here and almst ended up in a womens shelter. I was told by different people, not to leave the kids behind because it would be considered abandonment. But if I took them to a shelter with me then I would be removing them from a good home and putting them into a situation much worse. I thought going to jail was the worst day of my life but not knowing where to go or if I should take the kids or leave them. Would i ever see them??? Thankfully a frind from church let me stay with her and she had room for the kids. My husband and I settled shared the kids as best we could. it wasnt much but at least I got to have them. I ended up renting a house and for the past 10 months have been waiting to go to trial on the criminal case. I can not risk going to court for the divorce because the criminal case is for domestic abuse and the chance of loosing custody of my kids is to great. My soon to be ex has been using this as a weapon and wont agree to any settlments i have suggested. I can not get into my house to remove my belongings because of the criminal case. He has so much control and power right now and I can do nothig about it. This is a nightmare that I can not wake up from nd it is taking a toll. When this first began he told his family that all he had done was kiss this other woman. Well she gave birth to a son last weekend. That was one powerfull kiss! Since the birth of this baby, I have been in a spin. My emotions are all over the place. i am not handling this well. The criminal trial had been rescheduled 4 times and it looks like it will be again. I have absolutly no rights in this. The old Right to a speedy trial only seems to be for people who are sitting in jail. My life is on hold and I am comming unglued. My faith is stronger because of this trial but I need it to end and the court system is NOT on my side.

If I loose custody of my children I really think I might loose my sanity. It is what keeps me up at night.


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Relayer
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: mullan]
      #435872 - 08/04/08 02:23 PM

So, you, the domestic abuser, got the house and kids. Nice.

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Cayteax
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: Relayer]
      #435878 - 08/04/08 02:30 PM

Seriously, Dude. Reread her post. In the end husband got the restraining order removed and kicked HER out of the house. She's living with a friend now. AND they are sharing the kids. I'm gonna reread but that's what I got out of it.

According to what I read she DID strike first but he blocked her strike and had her backed against a wall and she fought to get out.

OP, don't really have any words of wisdom. I won't lie. You're in a pretty pickle. I suggest counseling and maybe anger management for you as a show of good faith.

ETA: She was staying with a friend and is now renting another house.

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Cayteax

Edited by Cayteax (08/04/08 02:32 PM)


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Relayer
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: Cayteax]
      #435974 - 08/04/08 06:45 PM

[quote]Seriously, Dude. Reread her post. In the end husband got the restraining order removed and kicked HER out of the house. She's living with a friend now. AND they are sharing the kids. I'm gonna reread but that's what I got out of it.

According to what I read she DID strike first but he blocked her strike and had her backed against a wall and she fought to get out.

OP, don't really have any words of wisdom. I won't lie. You're in a pretty pickle. I suggest counseling and maybe anger management for you as a show of good faith.

ETA: She was staying with a friend and is now renting another house. [/quote]

I read it the first time. She played victim and initially got the house. Then the actual victim (who was defending himself) got a no contact as anyone should and had her removed.

I was commenting on her and her lawyers little court
maneuver of getting a RO in an attempt to get the kids and the house, although she was guilty.

Why it was granted is beyond me. Must of been two different judges or something. Women need to be punished just as much as men when they are the abusers and abusers often do these little tricks.

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mullan
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: Relayer]
      #436027 - 08/04/08 10:05 PM

Did you guys really read the post? All that happened was a slap in the face that did not even land. He was in my face holding me against the wall and yelling every vile name in the book. I grabbed his neck and squeazed to get him OFF me. Do you really think this is domestic abuse?? What woman wuld not sap the face of a cheating husband? In the past he had beat up on my 15 yr old son under the guise of disipline. Bruises and scartch marks on my sons throat is NOT disipline. He is a very angry man and when he gets anry he is very scarry. My slap was a gut reaction and not something that happened every day. Does this situation really deserve jail time, an ankle braclet and probation for 3 years??

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Maury
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: mullan]
      #436033 - 08/04/08 10:14 PM

"Do you really think this is domestic abuse??"

A slap is clearly domestic abuse. An act of self defense or to get someone off you, is not. Whether or not you subjectively believe a woman or a man is validated in slapping their spouse for cheating, it still qualifies as domestic abuse and from a legal perspective is inappropriate.

Each state is different, but chances of any significant jail time on such facts is remote. Around here, the usual would be three days in jail (not on a bracelet) on a first offense. In many states, it is probation.

You may always seek a speedy trial whether you are in jail or out. It must be held wherever practical within 60 days of your pretrial. You must demand that speedy trial, however, with a speedy trial demand.

Domestic abuse is seen as a serious issue and, as a result, all acts that fall within its definition are treated seriously. Certainly blood and marks on his neck would be fairly compelling evidence of domestic abuse.

Most states have a statutory presumption that personfound to have committed acts of domestic abuse should not be awarded primary custody, You would have to argue against that presumtion which can be rebutted. Not having primary custody does not mean that you lose your children, but I imagine you can see how fathers who are often faced with such a dilemma would feel slighted as well and that is, sadly, far more common.

The fact is that you made a serious mistake and acted inappropriately. To not understand that and seek to display that understanding in family court can be detrimental andto any custody case. All to often it is the husband that falls into such traps or even faces fraudulent charges. In this instances, you have al but acknowleged that an act that is doemstic abuse did occur. That would make a victory at trial unlikely unless you can convince a jury that it was somehow defensive. Stating you were angry because he cheated is not a valid defense.


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mullan
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: Maury]
      #436036 - 08/04/08 10:19 PM

This all happened last Oct 2007. My trial has been reset 4 times and will probably be reset again. it is set now for Sept. i have asked and tried to research my right to a speedy trial but everyone says because I am NOT sitting in jail I have no rights. Which ever way this goes I can deal with it. it just nee dto get on the stand and get it over with. What do you mean by Speedy trial request?

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Maury
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: mullan]
      #436037 - 08/04/08 10:23 PM

What state are you in. I can probably find a form for the Speedy trial demand.

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mullan
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: Maury]
      #436039 - 08/04/08 10:25 PM

Oregon

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BeckaLeigh
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: mullan]
      #436042 - 08/04/08 10:35 PM

It sounds like you are living in a nightmare that you are just as responsible for as he is, if not a little more. Yes, it was wrong of you to try to strike him. And if he was/is abusive to your child, why did you want to work on the marriage to the point of ignoring his desire for a divorce? I realize sometimes it is hard to let go of something that has been there for so long, but if you were concerned for your child, why didn't you do something before? I can understand the desire to hurt him after he hurt you, but as adults, we have to own up to our mistakes. YOU chose to try to strike him. YOU tried to draw first blood and when it failed, he pushed back. I would, too, in his place. He had made it abundantly clear that he wanted out, you wouldnt let it go. I don't see why you posted this under domestic violence/abuse, other than you got yourself into this situation, then tried to turn the tables and it backfired, now you are upset. I can't blame you for being upset, but neither can I have much sympathy for you, after being abused myself. You tried to slap him, he pushed you down, you got up yelling at him. IMO, he was pretty justified in what he did. He didn't get out of hand like some people would have. YOU did. So, reap what you sow, and face the consequences like an adult.

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I tried being normal once. Worst five minutes of my life.


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Maury
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: mullan]
      #436044 - 08/04/08 10:47 PM

You have a right to a speedy trial under the Sixth Amendment of the United States Constitution, which requires that trials be held within a certain time frame after a person has been charged with a crime.

This right can be waived by asking for additional time for the preparation of your defense.

Speedy Trial Rights in Oregon

If you are charged with a crime and your trial has not been postponed upon your application or by your consent, your trial must start within a reasonable period of time or the instrument charging you with the crime will be dismissed. The following factors are considered in determining the reasonableness of the delay:

Nature of charges
Length of delay
State's explanation or lack of explanation for failing to bring your case to trial

It appears that forms for such matters are difficult to locate. As a result, you should put the heading of your case on a document and include as the Caption (usually to the right of title) :Demand for Speedy trial and include the following:


TO:THE DISTRICT COURT OF ________ COUNTY AND ________, ATTORNEY FOR THE COUNTY OF __________

PLEASE TAKE NOTICE, that the above named defendant hereby demands trial in the above entitled matter be commenced within sixty (60) days from the date of this demand or from the entry of a plea of not guilty, whichever is later, in accordance with ORS 135.747.

Respectfully submitted,


Dated: ________
__________________
Name, Address, Phone


This is filed with the court and served by mail on the prosecutor.


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mullan
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: BeckaLeigh]
      #436047 - 08/04/08 10:49 PM

In hind sight I should have just had him removed from the house as soon as i was served with divoce papers. But I was worried it would affect the yournger kids. Until I got away from the situation and could see it for what it was, I realised I should have just given him the divorce. What I did not put in the first post was that after I got away from him he followed me into the living room and continued to call me names and taunt me saying go ahead and hit me. I hate you I hate you go ahead and hit me. He wanted me to hit so he could keep his precious house. He has also admited to me (in mediation so it can not be used in court) that he is only keeping this going because if I have the kids he would have to pay child support. he will do anything to not have to pay. I have told him I dont want his money all I want are my kids. And that does not mean he would not see them. Our schedules work so that he has them during the day and I have them at night. It is very equal. But he wont agree to anything on paper. he knows if we go to court my chances are reduce significantly for custody. He has a daughter in Calif that he has never paid suport for. He told her mother he would go to jail before he would pay. He also now has a new baby (from the affair) and he is refusing to pay for this one also.

And he DID get out of hand!


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Maury
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: mullan]
      #436048 - 08/04/08 10:52 PM

"I have told him I dont want his money all I want are my kids. And that does not mean he would not see them."

Apparently he wishes the same thing in reverse. He is equally entitled to that position. Yet, you seem to construe the opposite for you as losing your children. Can you at least see the internal inconsistency of the position?

It would also appear that you, also did, in fact, get out of hand. Unfortunately for you, the physical evidence supported that contention.


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BeckaLeigh
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: mullan]
      #436052 - 08/04/08 10:58 PM

Well, he may have gotten out of hand, but that was also in response to you getting out of hand. Doesn't make it right, but it's true. As for YOUR kids, he might want them also. Aren't they his kids, too? Maybe it isn't just to get out of paying. As for you having him removed from the house, why is it automatically assumed by some that the woman gets the kids and the house, and the man gets the shaft?

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Maury
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: BeckaLeigh]
      #436053 - 08/04/08 11:08 PM

This is just an observation, but it certainly appears from your posts that you elieve because you are the mother you are in a superior position to be granted custody of the children and that is the way it should be. You will have to work on how you present your arguments since that is not a valid belief or statement legally speaking. Certainly, if you believe based on articulable facts that it is in the best inetrests of the children for you to hav primary custody,you should argue that point. However the critical issue is each parents ability to care for the children. This certainly makes relevant how he hendles them including anger issues, discipline, past caretaking etc... However, the fact that you are mom and he is dad is not an argument alone.

In short, your presentation is lacking, at least in this forum, which is why you have recieved a good does of posts that point out that fact. The fact that you are Christian and he is not, is equally unconvincing. It relates little to ability to parent.

Take these posts as an idea of the arguments you will face in court.


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Misslisa1017
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: mullan]
      #437900 - 08/09/08 10:02 AM

It is what it is, when a man does it, it's abuse.

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Relayer
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: mullan]
      #437985 - 08/09/08 03:20 PM

[quote]In hind sight I should have just had him removed from the house as soon as i was served with divoce papers. But I was worried it would affect the yournger kids. Until I got away from the situation and could see it for what it was, I realised I should have just given him the divorce. What I did not put in the first post was that after I got away from him he followed me into the living room and continued to call me names and taunt me saying go ahead and hit me. I hate you I hate you go ahead and hit me. He wanted me to hit so he could keep his precious house. He has also admited to me (in mediation so it can not be used in court) that he is only keeping this going because if I have the kids he would have to pay child support. he will do anything to not have to pay. I have told him I dont want his money all I want are my kids. And that does not mean he would not see them. Our schedules work so that he has them during the day and I have them at night. It is very equal. But he wont agree to anything on paper. he knows if we go to court my chances are reduce significantly for custody. He has a daughter in Calif that he has never paid suport for. He told her mother he would go to jail before he would pay. He also now has a new baby (from the affair) and he is refusing to pay for this one also.

And he DID get out of hand! [/quote]

Absuers (you) do stuff like that all the time

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motorboater
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: mullan]
      #438069 - 08/09/08 07:17 PM

I think you have some removable obstacles are currently hindering your chances at success in court:

1. "When I was arrained i was so scared I did not hear them say the charge was reduced to harrasment so I asked for a trial instead of pleading guilty and taking a fine." Where was your lawyer? He or she sounds incompetent and you might want another. You also sound like you're not paying attention while in court, which seems like a major mistake.

2. "My lawyer advised me to request a restraining order which would give me temp custody and the house." If you give away that your motive for the RO was to gain a material and custody advantage HERE, voluntarily, you're likely toast in court. You're not supposed to abuse the RO process for this purpose, you're supposed to get RO's to protect yourself from danger or harassment. You could get caught/hurt in court unless you refine your story.

3. Even if he's a big jerk and you're very nice, right now he has a strong case for domestic violence against you. You have practically no case against him, mean guy that he is. Particularly if he establishes that you're abusing the process/system (with temp RO's and such) simply because you want to win the house and custody. It essentially will make a judge suspect your credibility.

4. You are more harmful than helpful when you "justify" what you did. Just like anyone on this board when they excuse anger and threats and mistreatment of others because they "sympathize." I mean, if I was your best friend, I would empathize and eat ice cream with you and curse your stbx, really. But nobody's your best friend in court. The best face to show is that you've learned that you did the wrong thing to be angry and violent. Rather than that you be proven to have a violence problem in court, while you still claim that the person you hit "caused it." An attitude shift backed up by counseling or something like that really could pay off in court (and perhaps the real world too I suppose).

I doubt you deserve 3 years jail time and no custody or anything like that. However, you're making a combination of mistakes (inattention to the judge, possibly poor representation, misuse of the RO system, unaccountability for your actions, blame of others for "deserving" to get hit, an apparent presumption that you deserve the house and kids because you're the mom, or because your stbx was a jerk or had an affair or whatever...weak assumptions all) that will truly speed you the direction of "losing."

I don't think you'll go to jail and totally lose your kids. I do think you're on a path to a poor divorce settlement and becoming non-custodial parent. Many states are explicit about not giving primary custody to the domestically violent. But the good news is that there are multiple changes you can make right now to minimize the upcoming damage.


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BeckaLeigh
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: motorboater]
      #438137 - 08/09/08 10:48 PM

Just to add, in Texas, you aren't supposed to be ordered physical primary custody of minors if you have been convicted of DV within the proir 2 years, the time might be a little off, not positive. The judge gave this as one of the reasons for giving me sole custody, among quite a few other reasons.

As for the changes you can make, one option is if your county has a DV class, TAKE IT!! Take it and learn. Don't sit there and twittle your thumbs until it is over. I would also recommend a divorced parents class, they help. Our judge, like many, required one before he would grant our divorce. You can work on taking your part of the blame in this situation, as well. You can blame everyone in the world for your current troubles, but if you are honest with yourself, you know who caused it. For the kid(s) sake(s), do all you can to become an even better person than you were before. NOT saying you were a bad person before, but everyone can use improvements. Good luck.

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I tried being normal once. Worst five minutes of my life.


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suzynj
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: BeckaLeigh]
      #440594 - 08/17/08 12:17 PM

Do you have a lawyer? You can still plead guilty to a lesser charge, and it is always possible you will be found not guilty if the incident does not meet all the elements required for the charge. Only a lawyer could tell you for sure. Your description of the incident does not seem to indicate a maximum sentence. Remember the judge decides between minimum and maximum fines/jail time. You ex does not have the power to tell the DA what to charge you with, you were already charged. Fear is a game that is played in divorce, take the time to find out the facts. I see no reason why you can't proceed with divorce immediatly. He already agreed to sharing time with the children, so it is too late for him to claim you are a danger to them. The whole domestic incident may be taken into consideration in ruling on child custody, but the bottom line is.. the grounds for divorce have nothing to do with custody or equitable distribution. Someone will have residential custody (meaning the kids live with them) and the other person will have non-residential custody (simply they do not reside with them). No one is going to take your children away and no one is going to take everything (financial) away. This is not a serious domestic violence issue, it is a divorce stragedy.

Oregon is an equitable distribution state, and fault is not a consideration when dividing the marital estate. Retirement plans shall be considered part of the marital estate, and the court shall consider the contribution of a spouse as a homemaker as a contribution to the acquisition of marital assets. The court presumes that both spouses have contributed equally to the acquisition of property during the marriage, whether such property is jointly or separately held, and thus should be divided equitably. Please read bellow about Oregon divorce statute.

In arriving at a just and proper division of property, the court shall consider reasonable costs of sale of assets, taxes and any other costs reasonably anticipated by the parties. If spousal support is awarded in lieu of a share of property, the court shall order the obligor to provide for and maintain life insurance in an amount commensurate with the obligation and designating the recipient as beneficiary for the duration of the obligation. In determining the proper division of property, the court may consider evidence of the tax consequences on the parties of its proposed judgment. [Based on Oregon Revised Statutes: Chapter 107.105]


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DeeCee
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: mullan]
      #442765 - 08/23/08 09:01 AM


Mullan, as one person to another who believes in Christ please come here to this board with a discerning ear.
As a woman of Christ (though this board is at sometime a good venue to vent and put all you are goingthrough in word) be mindful that an equal number of angry and insensitive people may be on here as well..and words of discouragement or finger pointing is not going to do anything BUT help you, only to mentally bring you down.

Rememebr if Christ went through hell WE will go through our own hells as well. We are all being pushed to our limits when going through our divorces. And no I do not advocate use of violence to resolve any issue especially hitting between man and woman..but that is what the devil wants you to do...push your buttons to make you lose your mind.
You may need to get on your hands and knees and pray PRAY for guidance and forgiveness to the Lord. Then do something proactive and seek out a lawyer who is on your side. Ask and you will be answered, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened.
Come here yes. If you want to write, but close your ears to anyone who tells you, you are an abuser..to call you that is an insult to women who have had their heads smashed in by loving husbands.
Hindsight is 20/20. We would all not be here if we didn't even marry the partners we did...but that being said. Find a lawyer through legal aide or through your church who will be on your team. Look if serial killers can find lawyers who advocate for them. A mother who made an error in judgement would be able to have her day in court and not have her kids and possessions stripped from her.

Edited by DeeCee (08/23/08 09:02 AM)


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stuckinarut
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: DeeCee]
      #443275 - 08/25/08 02:41 PM

I am definetly living in a Nightmare!

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Maury
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: stuckinarut]
      #443341 - 08/25/08 05:24 PM

I don't think your wife is bragging about her relationship with you either Stuck.

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BeckaLeigh
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: stuckinarut]
      #443353 - 08/25/08 06:08 PM

Of your own making.

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momus2
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: BeckaLeigh]
      #445778 - 08/30/08 10:27 PM

Okay. Intent to cause harm is one thing---doing it is another. Sounds like your husband blocked your slap. Then he pushed you to the ground and pinned you against the wall while calling you vile names. Now, you need to take a deep breath and honestly examine that scene. Were you scared? Did you feel an imminent threat of bodily harm? Why did you feel the need to dig your fingernails into his neck? What did you think would happen? If you can honestly say that you feared for your safety and well-being and needed to get away, you were defending yourself, not being abusive. I don't believe the attempted slap comes into play legally. So, try to get beyond the guilt, terror, whatever, enough to truly examine your feelings and motives of your actions at the time, and then get a good attorney who understands and represents you thusly. It's hard to imagine your husband fearing so much for his safety that he had to push you down and pin you against the wall, given his size.

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BeckaLeigh
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: momus2]
      #446335 - 09/02/08 10:55 AM

I have to wonder if some of these female poster's responses would be the same if it was a male posting this exact same thing. The double-standards in our society now really makes me sick. We scream for equality, but most don't seem to want it. I have heard women screaming in court about how their H's hit them. Yes, they hit their H first, but he is so much bigger and scarier than her. BS. You put yourself there, you get what you get. Not saying they are all deserved. But, why is it ok for a woman to lose her temper and expect a man to stand there and take it, when we wouldn't do it???????? Bullshyt.

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I tried being normal once. Worst five minutes of my life.


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motorboater
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: BeckaLeigh]
      #446343 - 09/02/08 11:46 AM

They wouldn't. It is BS.

Apparently, if the target successfully defends him/herself (by blocking the strike) then the target is no longer the victim of assault.

Or if the target FEELS that he/she knows how to defend him/herself (thus feels little/no fear during your attack), then the target can no longer be a victim of your assault.

IOW, if you went up to Evander Holyfield and launched a barrage of punches, you've in no way assaulted him because he would like block most/all of it and feel no fear of you.

IOW big men who try to capably defend themselves cannot be assaulted. Right.

Or, if he's not nice AFTER your assault of him, then your assault didn't occur.

Or even, if he assaults YOU the next day, then your previous assault of him didn't occur.

Or even, if you assault him and he doesn't assault you, but you "feel" more fear than him, then you're the actual victim, not him.

But, really, it's BS.

If you attack with violence, you're violent. If you do it to your spouse, you're domestically violent. That includes 100% of any women who slap anyone they get pissed off enough. Including YOU, if you've ever done it. Most women I've ever known, do this at some point, to someone. Most try to rationalize it afterwords.


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BeckaLeigh
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: motorboater]
      #446358 - 09/02/08 12:28 PM

I agree with all of these scenarios, now if only people would educate themselves on domestic violence, own up to their part in it. But, there are those who are always going to be the victim. And then we have those who actually are the victims. And they don't get listened to because of all the women who like to pull the abuse card out of their a$$. Grow up, people. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who the perpetrator is. If you don't want to be labeled as such, don't put yourself there.

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I tried being normal once. Worst five minutes of my life.


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momus2
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: BeckaLeigh]
      #446401 - 09/02/08 02:48 PM

It may have been attempted abuse, but it was not abuse. She did not hit him. I am going by the legal definition of assault, which includes reasonable fear of injury. Hard to imagine that husband who is so much bigger and stronger than her would be in fear. Could be harassment, but not abuse. Equality--great idea--but in almost all cases, men are at an advantage physically. And the husband did not "stand there and take it"--he blocked it. Also, I don't believe that most women have slapped someone when they get mad.

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BeckaLeigh
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: momus2]
      #446402 - 09/02/08 03:06 PM

I snapped and lashed out and tried to slap him across the face. he blocked my arm and pushed me to the ground. When I got on my feet I was yelling how dare you push me. He was in my face calling me vile names. He had me pinned to the wall while he was yelling at me. I was trying to push him away and when I could not get away I grabbed his neck and dug my nails in and pushed away from me. (fyi.. he is 6'2 235lbs, I am 5'4 1xx lbs) I was fighting back trying to get away from him. When I finally did ********************************************

Just wondering if you are reading the same thing we are. SHE attempted to hit him, IN SELF-DEFENSE, HE PUSHED HER TO THE GROUND. SHE got up, yelling at him. He did the same thing. If she was truly in fear, why stand there yelling at him, when she started it???? That is plain stupidity.

Look, I have been there, done that, got the t-shirts and the scars to show for it. I am tired of women doing exactly what she is doing and making it harder for those of us who were actually abused to be heard. He did not strike her. He did not start the crap. She did. She was angry, she tried to strike him. In plain english?? She isn't/wasn't abused.

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I tried being normal once. Worst five minutes of my life.


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matart1
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: momus2]
      #446417 - 09/02/08 04:14 PM

she threw the first punch so to speak - it may not have landed but it was Mullen's intent to cause bodily injury and harm -
now if that kind of behavior is acceptable to you then somebody needs to put their big girl panties on and take it like they dish it out....

Mullen assualted that man and then cried wolf and that only did a disservice to all the women out there who are truely being battered - that is NOT okay behavior!

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momus2
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: BeckaLeigh]
      #446421 - 09/02/08 04:29 PM

I am just wondering if you are reading the same thing I am. Yes, she ATTEMPTED to hit him. The self-defense part was where he blocked it. Pushing her down, went beyond self-defense. Fear can evoke more than one type of response (fight or flight comes to mind). Staying there was stupid--many things could have happened--but that does not mean that she was not in fear. I am not necessarily saying that she was abused, I merely asked her to evaluate what happened and her feelings so that she could possible gain perspective. Her husband (from the given story) did not seem too worried until the kids and the house were brought up--could this be a political (legal) maneuver?
I am sorry for you (and all) who have been abused and not heard. It's a terrible thing.


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motorboater
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: momus2]
      #446457 - 09/02/08 05:55 PM

[quote] reasonable fear of injury [/quote]

I think fear can easily be shown by the fact that he HAD TO BLOCK HER BLOW. He feared her attack to his face enough to not want to receive it.

It's not like they were playfully screwing around with soccer boppers (remember those?). He didn't facetiously call "abuse" over something that was not an attack.

It makes no sense to call those that capably defend themselves "lesser victims" or nonvictims of assault compared to those that unsuccessfully defend themselves. It's all in the attack, not in the self-defense or lack thereof.


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motorboater
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: momus2]
      #446461 - 09/02/08 06:12 PM

[quote] I don't believe that most women have slapped someone when they get mad. [/quote]

Perhaps you're right. From my experience, all kids try it out. Most teens continue it. It's all over popular culture and never even blinked at.

Then, unfortunately, some girl tries it with her boyfriend/husband and we have DV on our hands. Especially if he stupidly slaps her back. Most research shows that its pretty close to 50/50 who throws the first punch.

Maybe not MOST people doing it, worldwide. But it really is a common problem. Should be nipped in the bud and isn't at all. It tends to be laughed at and encouraged, what girls should get to do to their husbands if they ever get caught cheating or whatever.

Instead, we have this misconception that men beat the sh1t out of women. When more common than that is men and women both slapping and shoving each other, without a clear "villian" or "victim."

This thread is a pretty good example of that. I doubt this husband is an angel. But still, he's the victim whenever she attacks him.

Besides, it doesn't really matter who's bigger. Floyd Mayweather is shorter and lighter than most female posters on this board. He shouldn't be allowed to assault others, regardless of his dimensions. And neither should you or me.


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BeckaLeigh
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: momus2]
      #446462 - 09/02/08 06:15 PM

All right, if someone is coming at you to hit you or to cause you bodily harm, regardless of their size, are you going to block the move and then stand there and wait for the next one to land?? No sane person does that. And just because he is bigger doesn't mean that he didn't fear her. I understand where you are coming from, I really do. But, when he pushed her down, it was self-defense on her part. Nor do I believe that she stated all that happened. Therfore, I don't believe that his wanting the kids and house were a legal maneuver. There are just as many men out there who want their kids as there are women. She wanted it all and didn't get it for a reason. So, why is it ok for her to want them, but not him? People think men do all the DV/abuse, don't want their kids, etc.... while just as many women do the same. But, there is a great number of men who raise their kids, just as well as any woman.

The problem as I see it, and I could be wrong, but I doubt it in this case, is that she didn't want out of the marriage. Once she saw he didn't want to stay in it, she wanted to hurt him any way she could and tried. When it backfired, then it was poor little me.

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I tried being normal once. Worst five minutes of my life.


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almostheaven
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: motorboater]
      #446883 - 09/03/08 01:49 PM

If you attack someone, you're guilty of assault. If they block your assault, you're still guilty of attempted, but they've been saved from actually being assaulted...self defense. If they attack back, THEY'RE guilty of assault. There should be no two-ways about it. If you attempt it or do it, you're guilty. If you stop short of it and just prevent it, it's self-defense.

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Char Fox


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almostheaven
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: momus2]
      #446889 - 09/03/08 02:04 PM

Because he blocked it, it should have been considered attempted abuse. Because he then pinned her after the block was done, his should have been considered abuse. I don't think fear of injury should be the definition personally. Attempting to physically touch someone in a violent manner would more adequately cover it. How do you gauge when someone is in fear? You can't. Only they successfully can. But you CAN understand better when someone has attacked or tried to attack another violently...whether the victim was in fear or not.

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Char Fox


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almostheaven
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: BeckaLeigh]
      #446896 - 09/03/08 02:13 PM

In this case, I'd have to say when he "pinned" her, HE crossed the line into abuse, but she'd already attempted abuse. It should then be labled mutual combat, both more participant than victim.

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Char Fox


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motorboater
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: almostheaven]
      #446917 - 09/03/08 02:52 PM

Agreed.

However it gets pretty murky pretty fast where you draw a line between "he grabbed her abusively" and "he grabbed her in self-defense to stop her attack." Tends to result in he said/she said/nobody knows. Certainly not by listening to one person tell a story...

Best to just never attack, just leave, if at all possible.

Even if it means getting shoved in the back on your way out the door.


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almostheaven
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: motorboater]
      #446940 - 09/03/08 03:27 PM

Well if it truly happened as described, here's my take:

>>>>>I snapped and lashed out and tried to slap him across the face. he blocked my arm and pushed me to the ground. When I got on my feet I was yelling how dare you push me. He was in my face calling me vile names. He had me pinned to the wall while he was yelling at me. I was trying to push him away and when I could not get away I grabbed his neck and dug my nails in and pushed away from me.<<<<<

1. She "tried to slap him across the face" - Abuse
2. HOWEVER, He "blocked my arm and pushed me to the ground" - Self Defense, making the first part ATTEMPTED (not carried through) abuse.
3. Her yelling and him calling her names has no bearing, it's not physical and they're both a party to it.
4. He "had me pinned to the wall" - Abuse
5. She "was trying to push him away" and "grabbed his neck and dug" - Self Defense.

At the point where both attempted or did abuse, and both defended themselves it became mutual combat. If he'd walked after blocking and pushing her off, it would have only been her attempting abuse and him defending himself.

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Char Fox


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Miranda
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: almostheaven]
      #448177 - 09/07/08 09:14 AM

No she threw the first hit and then subsequently clawed his neck. When the police arrived, they did not see it as "self defense" they saw it a domestic violence and hauled her butt off to jail. Not to metion there were children in the house when this was going on. It a shame on both sides...

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13.1...because I am only half crazy!


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almostheaven
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: Miranda]
      #448790 - 09/09/08 01:21 PM

>>>>>When the police arrived, they did not see it as "self defense" they saw it a domestic violence and hauled her butt off to jail.

Then it didn't happen as described. Because if it did, police would call it mutual combat and they'd both be arrested.

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Char Fox


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rogerisright
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: almostheaven]
      #453690 - 09/23/08 06:07 AM

It appears as though "Mullen" may or may not still be monitoring this thread but just in case here goes... I live in Oregon and I am very familiar with it's laws regarding DV (Assault IV w/ enhancement to a felony for doing it in front of the children) could get you 1-5 years in prison. In this case you will get time served ...the DV anger package aka anger management counseling a few small assessments and time served w/ 1 -2 yrs of court supervision. The reason you can't let this happen is because it would make you a convicted felon and you will have a very difficult time finding a good job and a decent place to live especially since it's for DV. You will not get custody of your children at the current time ...sorry!
<br>
This thread is very important for everyone to take note of...why? because even someone who is as jaded as I am couldn't help but feel bad for "Mullen" and the other posters apparently were also able to see the irony and poetic justice that this role reversal provided for us all. It also highlights how quickly women are willing to "go to guns" over what they feel their birthright is ...custody. In this case I can't help but think that "Mullen" is probably better suited to raise the children but unfortunately a judge won't ever get that far in his thinking. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING IN EVERY COURT ROOM IN EVERY COUNTY IN THE USA EVERY SINGLE DAY TO MEN! ... We as fathers (by and large) want to be a very important part of our children's lives forever just like "Mullen" does but the courts too often do to men what they are about to do to "Mullen" .. and that is tattoo the abuser label on her and send the kids home with the other parent. How typical that she immediately discounts her husbands desire to be the primary caregiver into dollars and no sense...it may be true and it may not be true but shouldn't the first thought be that he isn't only motivated by not having to pay support? I am a Catholic ... not the cafeteria kind and as a christian who believes marriage is a sacrament didn't include the word divorce in my vocabulary until I had no choice. God answers all prayers ...except sometimes ...painfully the answer is no. in this case unlike so many other cases where the wife gets the mine and the husband gets the shaft the husband has never even ever raised a hand to his wife and her side is 100% fantasy and posturing and he doesn't get to only spend 12 hrs in jail and some end up spending 3-6 months and more ... the felony ruins what they have worked for professionally their entire lives! It takes all of their hopes and dreams and in one instant takes them all away based upon nothing but pure selfish evil ... and that's not right. I had a case here in Oregon where the wife was told that hsbnd was leaving and was looking for his own place ...one of their issues was the wife's unwillingness to "take care of their personal intimate business" except a few times a year when she felt like it. The hsbnd being a sexual being resorted to dirty magazines and in fact had a small collection he kept hidden in various places around the house. When wife would find them she would throw them out and nag hsbnd over it again and again. hsbnd moves to his own place and he and wife start to try to work things out and one evening when wife was over at hsbnds place they start to argue ..loudly... about that same issue and hsbnd tells wife that he has some new girlfriends and they are all in his closet in a box ..wife storms into his room and goes for the closet door and husband stops her and physically restrains her from throwing his collection away and in the process she falls to the floor and gets a rug burn on her knees ..pretty good ones. The neighbors hearing the disturbance call the cops and they show up and see the wife's knees and hear her story and then they go talk to the husband to get his side as you may have guessed they charged him with assault IV do you know why he got off?? husbands defense was that he was exercising his right to protect his property (his [censored] collection worth over 250.00) that was in immediate peril of being unlawfully taken from him. not exactly on point just a funny story about how crazy and vindictive stuff like this makes people that I thought I would share from my experiences last month.
<br>
The bottom line is sometimes the laws the DV industry has forced upon us all based upon their good intentions (and hate of men) backfires which hopefully helps bring the how ridiculous the actual enforcement of them can be into proper perspective. These laws have taken away the cops ability to utilize his or her own judgment in matters like these. In Mullen's case pre DV industry lobby the cop would have had both parties walk around the block (separately) ...maybe go stay at a friends house that night or grab a room at a hotel ... it would have given both of them a chance to cool off and take a look at the bigger picture..hopefully they would both feel ashamed for the way they behaved and the next fight they had the following day would be to see who got to apologize to the other first followed by wonderful make up sex. fast forward to reality and the DV industry gets to claim another marriage becuz the laws they forced on us required that one party go to jail and their no drop policy in that law required the DA to enforce it to its ugly conclusion no matter what. shame on us for thinking that a law would fix something better than someones good judgment. don't get me wrong I don't trust cops to always tell the truth or exercise good objective judgment very often but in domestic relations issues like this their track record isn't that bad and it beats ruining one spouses life every single time no matter which one's it is.

--------------------
Love...Trust...Forgiveness these are not feelings ....these are Choices....and they are verbs!


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rogerisright
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: almostheaven]
      #453691 - 09/23/08 06:10 AM

depends what part of oregon she is in :shocked:

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Love...Trust...Forgiveness these are not feelings ....these are Choices....and they are verbs!


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I_am_YesDad
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Re: Living in a nightmare [Re: matart1]
      #454023 - 09/23/08 07:22 PM

[

Mullen assualted that man and then cried wolf and that only did a disservice to all the women out there who are truely being battered - that is NOT okay behavior! [/quote]

happened to me


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