Relayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 9506
Loc: Moorglade Mover
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I have a huge scar around my eyebrow and one on my right cheek from when she cold cocked me. Too large of a dimond. I was confined to a bed and hooked up to a IV when she did it. There were splatters of blood on the wall and on my fave and shirt. My daughter called 911. And all I got like I said was a brocure (and police reports that were ignored by the judge)
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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javajunkiee
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/08
Posts: 3153
Loc: SC
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[quote]I think it happens but I don't think it happens in the frequency reported here. I also do not think verbal abuse is abuse. No one is holding you there. I think it is used way too often as false ammo in divorce proceedings.
---I agree that verbal abuse is used way too often in divorce. I do think that consistent, prolonged verbal abuse, which I define as derogatory or degrading comments designed to strip someone down, (think drill sargeant) is abusive. My personal belief is that when that behavior starts to appear, the recipient of that abuse should be heading for the exit, so that it doesn't do long term damage. I've been subjected to this type of abuse and it does do a number on the psyche, but I will never, EVER allow myself to be subjected to that again. I'll never NEED to, because I've made sure I'm a self-sufficient, overly-independent, "hard ass", who won't be afraid to leave someone who's that plain mean.
And then, what consitutes abuse? I myself was a victim of domestic violence in a horrible manner but when someone starts a conversation about not getting CS or that they are in disagreement about parenting time and 3 post later, all of a sudden, the husband abused her, I simply dont believe it happened. Not one bit. I am quite sure they had an OP issued but did so on the advice of their lawyer or friend who did it.
I would say a majority of claims, on and off the board, are false.
---So you believe that physical abuse is....rare?
And a good number of times, the poster could very well have started it herself and I believe a person has a right to defend themselves. However, the law does not see it that way. If you are a man, and your spouse has a scratch on her, you are going to jail. I took many beatings knowing that and didn't fight back at all and all I have to show from that are a couple of deep scars on my face..the cops saw the cuts and blood on the wall and gave me a dometic violence brochure not one but twice..I finally called them after the 30th beating or so
---Why did you stay through all of that? Were you concerned that pressing charges of DV against your wife, even given the fact that the police believed you, wouldn't succeed?
yet....
I was subject to an OP and loss of my kids for 6 months because I said "fnck" to my ex from a hospital bed during an arugement.
---To be subjected to that, over a swear word, when you were in a hospital bed, is ridiculous. She used that *single* incident as an excuse? I'm not saying that you gave her other incidents to base the OP on, but I'm just finding it incredible that a supposedly objective, supposedly evidence oriented system, would keep children from their father over a 4 letter word. Yes, my naivete is showing.
I also know FIRST HAND if you are male, the county domestic abuse force will do little or nothing to help you.
---Which is also ridiculous.
If someone really had the crap beat out of them, it would be the first order of business. And I think OP's for verbal stuff is totally ridiculous and meant to enrich the legal profession
As a victim myself, I can tell if it really happened or not.
And the excuse of "I didn't want to put all my dirty laundry etc" out there right away is a BS excuse and DV would be the first order of business.
---Now see, that I strongly disagree with. I do not dispute the fact that there are women (and men) out there, that when other tactics fail, pull out the "poor me, I was abused!" card. However, I also have first hand experience at being abused and to this day I will not bring this up at the beginning of any communication that actually involves the abuse. Illogical? Yes. Why? Because I'm embarassed about it. Even more so, I'm mad as hell at myself for allowing it to occur, and not fighting back and for not leaving the *very*first*second* I had an opportunity. I have spent too many years trying to stuff that experience into a little box in the back of my mind, and just whipping something THAT painful, that horrific, and that personal, out to a stranger, is incomprehensible to me. To me, any poster who freely discusses the abuse while still in the middle of it, and who isn't actively looking for an escape hatch, is questionable. If they are discussing financial concerns also during this, it doesn't automatically scream troll to me, provided there are children involved. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to those posters simply because an abused mother/father who has children has to consider the financial repercussions. If there are no kids, and all they have the energy to worry about are finances rather than saving their own skin, I'm suspicious.
I can tell which are real and which aren't, simply by the tone of the writing. And of course, women NEVER start it or even do it to men.
---And of course, women start it and DO it. Call me crazy, but until both men and women step up and actively work to remove the double standards in our society there will be little change in how the legal system views and treats DV. I may be naive, or over estimating my own emotional or phsyical strength, but I find women who pull the 'weaker woman' crap to avoid the consequences for their actions to be an embarassment.
Thanks for responding to my post Relayer.
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Marriage doesn't come with a money-back guarantee.
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Relayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 9506
Loc: Moorglade Mover
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[quote][quote]---So you believe that physical abuse is....rare?
Much more so that peoplem ake it out to be. A woman can beat away but a man cant defend himself
---To be subjected to that, over a swear word, when you were in a hospital bed, is ridiculous. She used that *single* incident as an excuse?
--> Yes and it's documented. I never laid a hand a her.
I'm not saying that you gave her other incidents to base the OP on, but I'm just finding it incredible that a supposedly objective, supposedly evidence oriented system, would keep children from their father over a 4 letter word. Yes, my naivete is showing.
---> thats because in no way, shape of form is it objective
I also know FIRST HAND if you are male, the county domestic abuse force will do little or nothing to help you.
---Which is also ridiculous. I tried and was refused WITH POLICE REPORT IN HAND.
If someone really had the crap beat out of them, it would be the first order of business. And I think OP's for verbal stuff is totally ridiculous and meant to enrich the legal profession
--> Nope and the funny thing is the woman before me was granted one because her husband hadnt shown up at home for 3 days and she was pissed.
As a victim myself, I can tell if it really happened or not.
And the excuse of "I didn't want to put all my dirty laundry etc" out there right away is a BS excuse and DV would be the first order of business.
---Now see, that I strongly disagree with. I do not dispute the fact that there are women (and men) out there, that when other tactics fail, pull out the "poor me, I was abused!" card. However, I also have first hand experience at being abused and to this day I will not bring this up at the beginning of any communication that actually involves the abuse. Illogical? Yes. Why? Because I'm embarassed about it. Even more so, I'm mad as hell at myself for allowing it to occur, and not fighting back and for not leaving the *very*first*second* I had an opportunity. I have spent too many years trying to stuff that experience into a little box in the back of my mind, and just whipping something THAT painful, that horrific, and that personal, out to a stranger, is incomprehensible to me. To me, any poster who freely discusses the abuse while still in the middle of it, and who isn't actively looking for an escape hatch, is questionable. If they are discussing financial concerns also during this, it doesn't automatically scream troll to me, provided there are children involved. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to those posters simply because an abused mother/father who has children has to consider the financial repercussions. If there are no kids, and all they have the energy to worry about are finances rather than saving their own skin, I'm suspicious.
---> woman play victim too much to not mention it out of the gate.
I can tell which are real and which aren't, simply by the tone of the writing. And of course, women NEVER start it or even do it to men.
---And of course, women start it and DO it. Call me crazy, but until both men and women step up and actively work to remove the double standards in our society there will be little change in how the legal system views and treats DV. I may be naive, or over estimating my own emotional or phsyical strength, but I find women who pull the 'weaker woman' crap to avoid the consequences for their actions to be an embarassment.
--> It wont changebecause men dont have the ability to play victim like men do. When a woman can shoot her husband multiple times in the back with no evidence of abuse and spend a couple of months in jail and another couple in a mental facility, they can get away with anything. Men cant turn the tears on like women.
Thanks for responding to my post Relayer. [/quote]
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GO CUBBIES!!!!
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javajunkiee
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/08
Posts: 3153
Loc: SC
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I can appreciate that you feel strongly about this, and as I said before its really not my intent to convert your way of thinking. We could go on and on about this subject and never agree to the others view, lol. I will say just one last thing and let you be.
'woman play victim too much to not mention it out of the gate.'
Generalizations are dangerous. The one above is about as accurate as my saying that men are predisposed to being violent abusive brutes and are all guilty of smacking their wives around. Neither of us would be right.
--java
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Marriage doesn't come with a money-back guarantee.
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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>>>>>I think it happens but I don't think it happens in the frequency reported here.
For the umpteenth time...
The frequency something occurs here is not indicative of the frequency it occurs elsewhere. People come here because they have a problem. Those without these problems (of which DV is one) don't NEED to come here and don't. So any percentages drawn here are not accurate in any event.
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Char Fox
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motorboater
old hand
Reged: 03/14/08
Posts: 921
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Yeah, I wouldn't overanalyze the frequency reported on a DV related board and project it anywhere else...
As someone who's been through DV counseling, I can tell you that the most common scenario in the real world is NOT the violent brute of a man hurting the innocent woman, nor the violent brute of a woman hurting an innocent man.
It's a mutually violent but somewhat limited situation. They argue, they both escalate, one of them pokes in the chest, the other shoves back. That's it. Happens very frequently; no injuries to report.
Yet it is DV and should be nipped in the bud right there. Most females I know thinks its okay to shove and slap when she gets pissed enough, but they are wrong. Most males I know know they're screwed if the touch a woman, but in their hearts think its okay to shove and kit in "self defense." So that's our current recipe for disaster that causes most DV.
If it becomes a pattern, one of them eventually starts slapping. Or one of them gets sick of being slapped and throws a punch.
etc etc etc.
I know dozens of men (and women) who have had to deal with this and there is practically never a "monster" nor an "angel" which is the biggest misconception out there.
In my situation, I got slapped about 12-15 times by my pissed off wife. Instead of turning my back and leaving I got pissed off and slapped her back, hard, once. Said "you're fvcking in hysterics; knock it off." And she did. And we both went to DV counsing, which was good for both of us.
I'm aware that there are some innocent victims out there that are in truly dire straits. Just, most the people in counseling are NOT like that, males or females.
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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>>>>>I can tell you that the most common scenario in the real world is NOT the violent brute of a man hurting the innocent woman, nor the violent brute of a woman hurting an innocent man.
It's a mutually violent but somewhat limited situation. They argue, they both escalate, one of them pokes in the chest, the other shoves back. That's it. Happens very frequently; no injuries to report.<<<<<
That's what I was going to say when I read the first part...it's usually what they call mutual combat. But one may end up injured. And TYPICALLY that would be the woman as men are typically stronger. But that doesn't mean the man is prone to violence or that he was the agressor in those kinds of cases. But the police have to look very very hard to find the truth.
IE: I watched an episode of Cops recently where they went to a DV call. The man had no injuries and claimed she hit him in the face. She had a scratch. They were GOING to arrest him BUT she actually admitted she hit him first. She got scratched in the process of him holding her off. AND his brother witnessed it. Then they were going to arrest HER, but he didn't want them to and she was pregnant and nearly ready to deliver. They ended up telling her that if it happens again they WILL arrest her even if she is pregnant, and telling him that at this stage, her hormones are raging and it's best for him to leave if it looks like things are getting out of hand again.
But they were going to arrest him first because she was the only one with marks. Had she not been honest (many people won't be if they know it keeps THEM from going to jail), and had he not had a witness (most don't since it happens in the privacy of their own home), it would have been he said/she said. And then they can only go by what they see...who has marks on them.
As for actual DV where one is the agressor, I've witnessed that a few times, been victim of it from my first ex. My second ex though, his MOTHER used to beat up his dad everytime she got drunk. He stood there and took it, never fought back. Never called the cops on her, nothing. I never called the cops either, but I did NOT stand there and take it, I left.
Which is another thing about DV, many true cases of it go unreported. My theory on why this may be in some cases is that because sometimes the victim who is REALLY abused, is so abused they're scared to call the cops. Ones who aren't scared to do so usually aren't scared because there was really no DV, nothing for them to be afraid of.
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Char Fox
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nolonger
enthusiast
Reged: 09/15/08
Posts: 305
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I just stumbled on here from a verbal abuse site. Wow. What a difference in opinion!
My first response to this topic is that everyone here obviously has never read and educated themselves on true verbal and emotional abuse. Typically, society views name-calling and yelling as verbal abuse. Yes, but that's only part of it. Show me a single marriage that doesn't include yelling and name calling! EVERYbody is guilty of abuse there.
True verbal/emotional abuse is much more covert and systematic than simply one who loses her/his temper. It's likened to brainwashing and once you unlock the system and come out of the fog of an abusive relationship you can see the devistating (sometimes life-long) effects of abuse.
I doubt anyone here can say they have life-long effects from an arguement with their x.
However, if you have symptoms of Post-traumatic stress, it's very likely you were emotionally abused and you better believe the person who did that to you deserves to get the worse end of the deal in divorce!
Please, before this topic goes further and all of us end up looking foolish, read up on true verbal abuse. It's way more than what you say you think it is and it does the millions of survivors a disservice to perpetuate this ignorance.
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motorboater
old hand
Reged: 03/14/08
Posts: 921
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[quote] My first response to this topic is that everyone here obviously has never read and educated themselves on true verbal and emotional abuse. [/quote]
Well, you'd be wrong there.
You're right that verbal and emotional abuse goes beyond yelling and name calling during arguments.
You're wrong that an argument cannot have life-long effects. You're very wrong that if you exhibit symptoms of post-traumatic stress, you deserve a better deal in divorce.
And, I disagree that anyone on this thread looks foolish, though you seem a little holier-than-thou.
What you seem to support is rewarding claims of emotional abuse, based on whether one person shows PTS. However, the majority of abusive relationships are shown to be mutual upon investigation.
The person who points the finger first, or starts showing PTS, particularly after the divorce proceedings start, doesn't necessarily deserve a reward. Though, there is a significant industry/culture of victimization set up to do so. I suspect you've taken advantage of it.
What we should be striving for is a system that spots/prevents actual abuse without handing out teflon suits/get-out-of-jail-free cards to those that CLAIM abuse. Abuse sucks. False or exaggerated claims of abuse to affect divorce settlements suck. Your approach creates the latter, which is a significant problem.
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txks1151
enthusiast
Reged: 03/26/07
Posts: 210
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Yeah, the OP sounds like my ex to a damn near T.
Me and my lawyer were talking about this today while we were waiting to see the judge. When I was in for my Restraining Order hearing, 39 of 40 men got ROs.
I know SOME of them were beating their wives. HOWEVER, I'd say a good 35-40% of us were all in the early stages of divorce, no record of problems, and it was strictly a he-said she-said thing.
I feel for the REAL DV victims, male and female, but I feel more women use this as a weapon than are really being abused.
I used to be threatened "DO WHAT I WANT OR I WILL TELL THE NAVY YOU BEAT ME!!!!!!!"
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