NanV58
newbie
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
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I have posted before regarding 50/50 legal and shared physical placement in RI. I am scheduled for court this coming Thursday (after one postponement in October in attempts to settle between lawyers. While I submitted an itemized list of expenses totalling $4000 in mid October, my ex just responded with his own list of almost equal expenses. Per advice from the board, I just asked my lawyer to validate his list by receipts and payments as I do suspect the list is not totally honest by substantial amounts. Clothing expenses seem very high considering I see my boys every day and know what they wear. One expense is for $94 for hats and gloves. Am I crazy or does that seem like alot? He also included a $100 bicycle as a birthday gift, a trip to Six Flags (over $100) and a week of camping (over $100) when the boys were scheduled to be in his custody. While I have taken our two sons on numerous vacations, I would never think to include that in expenses. Also, he included a $165 sports registration fee for January 2004 winter league. Our son did not play. Lastly, I have not asked for any compensation considering that our 50/50 physical placement has been 60/40 for the past year. Will my request to have his expenses validated further delay a resolution? Our youngest son is 11 and I cannot afford to keep assuming the majority of expenses without a better accounting system. For the first two years of the divorce, we submitted monthly bills to each other with receipts for any expenses over $10 and reimbursed each other 50%. In August 2002, two months after he remarried and moved to a different town 15 miles away, he wrote that he would no longer acknowledge any bills that I submitted as he equally shared costs. What might be the legal outcome of this situation?
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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Could you list the things youa re listing as expenses?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Gryph
member
Reged: 10/12/04
Posts: 118
Loc: Minnesota
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I should think receipts would be a must for his claims. You have receipts, correct?
I agree wth you about vacation and gift expenses, especially if you do not include them in your total. My ex and I agreed before court that our children deserved a vacation fund and we both participate, but it was made clear to us that it was a choice we made, not an obligation.
What does your attorney say about this? I would hope he would have some insight and advice. Please keep us posted.
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Onyx
old hand
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 816
Loc: Buffalo NY
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Your concern about all of this delaying resolution.... of course it will, especially if he is going to protest it. BUT- think of this, if you are that sure that his statements are wrong... then do the right thing, and ask for proof. You bet your @$$ he would do the same to you if you submitted something that was wrong. If doing the right thing is important, then nevermind the time its going to take. You have waited this long to get a divorce anyway, right? What's a few more weeks or months? Good luck. By the way, I agree that vacations, etc, shouldnt be included, and I have never heard of hats and gloves costing that much, unless he is shopping at high scale stores, which isnt a requirement, its a luxury. They will go by the median cost... not what the most expensive is. My kids each go through at LEAST two hats... at LEAST... per winter, I would never spend that much on a hat. I think the most I have spent on a hat is like 19.00. Blessings, Onyx
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"Don't Make Me Get My Flying Monkeys"
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NanV58
newbie
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
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Thanks for the input thus far. My lawyer, asked me to contact her on Monday but I emailed her right before Thanksgiving to tell her that I am requesting receipts and such on his submitted expenses. When this problem first arose two years ago, she advised me to wait until expenses built up as it was not worth it to bring him to court over a few hundred dollars. I have heeded her advice and only wish a more equitable way of determining child costs could have been settled long before this. For two years I have continued to provide what our children needed without my ex's support. Since the ex has two step children and a new wife I wouldn't be surprised if some of the items listed were for them. The situation is further complicated because our older son who will enter high school next year has been enrolled in a private school for learning disabilities from grades 1-8. Despite teacher and medical recommendations that he apply to private schools, Dad will not even remotely entertain the idea. I looked forward to the day that he entered high school and we could save on tuition to prepare for college. Now, I am not sure that a public school is the right place for him and I am willing to foot the entire bill if I have to. I feel I at least have the right to ask that he equally contribute to regular maintenance. Does anyone have insight into the change in 50/50 physical placement and how that might affect child support? I am not looking to change visitation in any way but the fact remains that for the past year and continuing into the present, the boys are in my custody at least 60% of the time.
Thank you for your answers.
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Eric
old hand
Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 807
Loc: USA
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You and your ex are immature children.
You can stop this cycle and no one (believe me) on this site that is a regular poster can help you.
Your recourse?
www.DivorceAsFriends.com as found on the FIRM's Divorce & Women pages.
Come home...to FIRM...
Eric
www.FIRMncp.com
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Equality is not a difficult concept
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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yes believe Eric...he is our leader..oh no..sorry village idiot. Run as far and fast as you can from the Firm site.. your boys will be in old folks homes before you get past page 8000 of his manifesto..
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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these support agreements that require receipts and accountings are so ridiculous. I dont' understand why either of your vacation expenses should figure into child support. Support is for basic needs. Vacations are a luxury and are optional. If I"m understanding your situation correctly, you have 50/50 and don't pay each other child support...but you share receipts and accountings of your individual expenses for the child periodically...and then what....the one who spent less pays the one who spent more? That's ridiculous! Get rid of that order and get yourself to a support calculation website such as www.alllaw.com/calculators/childsupport and check to see just what child support should be ordered. Regardless of 50/50 placement, your child may still be entitled to child support depending on which parent has the higher income. Get what your child deserves and scrap this ridiculous scam that your ex probably came up with in order to avoid support payments!!!!
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NanV58
newbie
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
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It becomes increasingly frustrating when certain responders seem to have little interest in truly helping others. I have read thousands of posts and spent countless hours researching in attempts to have the most civil relationship both during my divorce almost five years ago and through the past two very difficult years of watching what I thought would be a true joint parenting relationship deteriorate before my eyes. When a parent, of either sex, stops celebrating their children and their accomplishments, fails to take equal responsibility in their maintenance, and continually prolongs resolution, it takes its toll on everyone.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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They both have the child an EQUAL amount of time. SHE is the one that submitted a bil to him, and he countered with a bill. They have the child an EQUAL amount of time, and therefore they are EQUALLY supporting the child. The ONLY reason for child support in a 50/50 custody arrangement is a little thing called "hidden alimony".
Also, you ASSUME that he came up with this arrangement to, "avoid support payments!!!!". Well, if he DID come up with it, SHE agreed to it, so aren't they BOTH at fault for any problems it causes?
One other thing, and it has been asked by me and ignored, is what was on HER list of expenses. She was quick to point out the things that were on HIS list, but she seems reluctant to list the $4000 that SHE feels he should pay for.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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NanV58
newbie
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
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First off, while our court documents state shared physical placement and our original arrangement (five years old) has it as 50/50, the children have been with me for 60% of overnights in the last year and many additional hours beyond that.
This equally supporting the child is just not an accurate depiction of our situation. I don't know what is meant by hidden alimony but we both waived all rights to alimony five years ago.
At the time of the divorce, yes, we mutually agreed that we would submit monthly expenses to each other...not mortgages, utilities, but specific expenses as they related to the children, ie. clothes, haircuts, gifts for friends, medical prescriptions. Without any warning, in August of 2002, two months after his remarriage, when expenses were rather high for going back to school clothes, backpacks, sneakers, etc., he informed me that he would no longer ackowledge any expenses submitted. Obviously this arrangement has failed and hence one of my reasons for reopening our parenting agreement.
As far as ignoring what was on my list, quite frankly, gr8Dad, you have always been unfairly negative in your responses to my posts and while I am sure that some of my expenses can be challenged, I can assure you that I have kept an honest record over the past two years. If anything, I have erred on the side of caution.
Two boys (11 and 14), two years, $4,000. That's $1,000 a year for each child. Does that seem unreasonable? I am not disputing that my ex spends money for the children but it is not equitable. At a very honest $1,000 per year for both children, by the time our 11 yr old reaches 18 that is $8,000 that I could very much use to help pay for college. I know he won't be getting anything from Dad as he won't even give the 11 year old $7.00 to chip in with the neighborhood kids for a pizza sleepover. Don't get me started.
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Onyx
old hand
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 816
Loc: Buffalo NY
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Eric, youre like a dog. I mentioned this afternoon, that you never direct anyone to any site besides FIRM... now you come on here and ALMOST direct them somewhere else....LMAO. If I took you to a Lassie movie, I bet you would ride home barking with your head out the window. How dare you call her and her ex, CHILDREN, when you likely never made it out of the 8th grade. Blow it Eric, I hear that is the only thing you do well. -Onyx
[quote]You and your ex are immature children.
You can stop this cycle and no one (believe me) on this site that is a regular poster can help you.
Your recourse?
www.DivorceAsFriends.com as found on the FIRM's Divorce & Women pages.
Come home...to FIRM...
Eric
www.FIRMncp.com [/quote]
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"Don't Make Me Get My Flying Monkeys"
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Onyx
old hand
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 816
Loc: Buffalo NY
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And whats with this "Come home" crap all of a sudden. Reliving the past when you would beg your wife to come back to you, or are you just a nutcase all around. Go home-
Eric.... please..... rofl.
[quote]You and your ex are immature children.
You can stop this cycle and no one (believe me) on this site that is a regular poster can help you.
Your recourse?
www.DivorceAsFriends.com as found on the FIRM's Divorce & Women pages.
Come home...to FIRM...
Eric
www.FIRMncp.com [/quote]
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"Don't Make Me Get My Flying Monkeys"
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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first off I agree that the expense exchange generally doesnt work. Your child support even at 50/50 should be based on incomes. I do not agree with.. the you have one child and he has the other so it breaks even and neither do the courts. It is not hidden alimony. Child support was never meant to be I pay 500 a month and you pay 500 a month so therefore the child gets $1000. The courts look at this as percentages. So lets say you make 20k and he makes 60k then you both should be supporting the child equally and since he makes 3 times as much then his share of the support is three times as much in dollars but in reality it is the same. In this case if his support was 600 a month then yours would be 200 and that comes out to 10% of both your incomes. So you are supporting them equally. In a situation where one has one child and one has the other this allows the children to live in a lifestyle very much alike. If it was 50/50 exactly like some here think it should be then one child would be wearing k-mart and the other Nordstroms. You got the divorce not the children so they should not have to suffer. As the judge explained it to me, when you were married you did not look at her to pay 50 cents for each dollar you spent. If you lived a life that said the children could afford Nordstroms you can not now expect them to go to Kmart just becuase it is coming out of your pocket. It was coming out of your pocket then.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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I responded ONCE to you, asking what was on you list of expenses. You ignored it. I made NO other comments, I simply asked ONE question. But apparently, that was "negative".
Now I will deal with the rest of your post.
"First off, while our court documents state shared physical placement and our original arrangement (five years old) has it as 50/50, the children have been with me for 60% of overnights in the last year and many additional hours beyond that."
Sorry, YOUR choice. Don't want the kids as much? Don't TAKE them as much.
"This equally supporting the child is just not an accurate depiction of our situation. I don't know what is meant by hidden alimony but we both waived all rights to alimony five years ago."
What is meant by hidden alimony is that HE has them half the time, and YOU have them half the time, per the court order. You want HIM to pay YOUR expenses, but when he submits HIS expenses, you want to disallow them. Sounds like you want HIM to pay not only for HIS expenses, but yours as well.
"At the time of the divorce, yes, we mutually agreed that we would submit monthly expenses to each other..."
I will deal with this statement in a minute...
"not mortgages, utilities, but specific expenses as they related to the children, ie. clothes, haircuts, gifts for friends, medical prescriptions."
So wait a minute, you want HIM to pay for half of a present that was sent with the child to a party? But HIM submitting (you listed it in an earlier post) an expense for somethign that the CHILD got themselves for a birthday is NOT allowed? Gee, I wonder who made THAT list of allowables?
"Without any warning, in August of 2002, two months after his remarriage, when expenses were rather high for going back to school clothes, backpacks, sneakers, etc., he informed me that he would no longer ackowledge any expenses submitted. Obviously this arrangement has failed and hence one of my reasons for reopening our parenting agreement."
Oh, so he can't afford to pay you at one point, and you want to reduce his parenting time? Good plan...
"Two boys (11 and 14), two years, $4,000. That's $1,000 a year for each child. Does that seem unreasonable? I am not disputing that my ex spends money for the children but it is not equitable. At a very honest $1,000 per year for both children, by the time our 11 yr old reaches 18 that is $8,000 that I could very much use to help pay for college. I know he won't be getting anything from Dad as he won't even give the 11 year old $7.00 to chip in with the neighborhood kids for a pizza sleepover. Don't get me started."
Now, to what I said I would address later. You saved the expenses for two YEARS and then gave them to him, and want to know why he won't fork over the money? Gee, I WONDER...
And if YOU have $4000 in reciepts, and you disagree with SOME of what he sent, what about the REST of what he sent? I am SURE that he spent SOMETHING on the children in two years.
As for not giving the child $7.00 for pizza during a sleep over, it was obviously his time (since if it was YOUR time, you would have paid), and that was HIS decision to to make. You were not THERE, you don't know what was HAPPENING, so you really are not in a position to base WHAT Dad will do during college, based on what he did during ONE sleepover.
Here's an idea. YOU spend what you want on the kids, and he spends what HE wants on the kids, and you leave each other ALONE.
BTW, what do you make a year and what does HE make a year (not including his new wife's income, if any). I am only asking to see if there is a huge income difference.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Onyx
old hand
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 816
Loc: Buffalo NY
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NanV, Gr8Dad may be a little harsh at times, but he generally thinks before he posts. He and I bicker sometimes, I will give you that, but he researches and asks questions in order to give you answers from the "other side"... yes I am implying the male side... something we need here, from a good source, and from a male who does take care of his children. Cut him some slack, hes not all that bad. If you read between some of the harshness, which is actually kinda sexy, you will get another viewpoint that could be useful to you. :::pinches gr8dad and runs::::
Good luck, and Blessings, Onyx
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"Don't Make Me Get My Flying Monkeys"
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Onyx
old hand
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 816
Loc: Buffalo NY
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Yes, it is frustrating.... avoid Eric at all costs. He is nothing but what I like to call a doll.... an empty headed play thing. ;)
[quote]It becomes increasingly frustrating when certain responders seem to have little interest in truly helping others. I have read thousands of posts and spent countless hours researching in attempts to have the most civil relationship both during my divorce almost five years ago and through the past two very difficult years of watching what I thought would be a true joint parenting relationship deteriorate before my eyes. When a parent, of either sex, stops celebrating their children and their accomplishments, fails to take equal responsibility in their maintenance, and continually prolongs resolution, it takes its toll on everyone. [/quote]
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"Don't Make Me Get My Flying Monkeys"
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NanV58
newbie
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
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Your negative tone has permeated other responses to previous posts.
Yes, I have had the children 60% of the time and I never said I didn't want them.
When we submitted expenses to each other I never disallowed his bills. Why should I be penalized for being the primary caretaker in terms of purchasing clothes, winter coats, etc?
As far as gifts for the children goes, when we first divorced, we communicated about birthdays and xmas as not to duplicate gifts. For example, I planned a party for our younger son, we both attended, and shared the expense. This was all discussed in advance. Another year, at xmas, we discussed what we were purchasing for the children to find under the tree at our respective homes and he told me outright that he was buying the younger son lacrosse equipment for xmas. Then, in January, he submitted those expenses and expected me to pay half. My response was that we had discusses xmas and I had also spent significant money on xmas gifts for our son. I have never submitted gift expenses hence my question of his allowable expense. He can keep the gifts on his list, but then it is only reasonable that I adjust my list to reflect the gifts that I have purchased for the children on behalf of birthdays and xmas.
Where do you arrive at the conclusion that he couldn't afford to pay me once in August and I want to reduce his parenting time? His refusal to acknowledge bills dates back to 2002 and I have never withheld the children from him. It's not that he couldn't afford to pay once but hasn't acknowledged one expense in two years.
As far as saving expenses for two years, I followed the advice of my lawyer. At first I wrote him, from August 2002 through January 2003, resubmitting requests but they were disregarded. What should I have done?
If you read my post carefully you would see that I specifically said that I do acknowledge that he financially contributes. I am not arguing that. What I am challenging is an equitable sharing of expenses.
As far as the $7 for pizza goes, I was there. I had picked up our younger son for baseball practice in the summer, and our older son came to my car and asked if I could give him $7.00 for the pizza. Dad was sitting under a tree, reading a book and sipping a cold drink. He was in plain sight and saw the interaction. He didn't utter a word to me as to why I shouldn't give the $7.00. Both the 11 year old and 14 year old have to do chores in his neighborhood to earn any spending money. They rake leaves and wash cars which I think is a good thing but to not give a child a few bucks is rather harsh. Of course, we just have different philosophies in money.
My ideas about what he will contribute for college are based on far more than one $7.00 issue. He was and still is a cheap person and that will not change.
I would love to spend what I want on the children and he can spend what HE wants but when he asks me two days before a holiday or special function for dress pants, shirts, jackets, and shoes, I guess my answer should be buy them yourself? Or when it is snowing outside and the boys don't have winter boots at his house I should not leave boots on my porch for them to pick up? How is this efective co-parenting?
Since the divorce he has never seen to it that the boys buy me one birthday, xmas, or mother's day card or gift. The boys always find a way to make me something at school or on their own because they feel terrible about it. I always tell them it is okay and either my boyfriend or father take them to buy me a card which is what the ex has stated should be. I have never stooped that low. I always see to it that the boys honor their father with a card and a gift.
He, on the other hand, takes the $5.00 spending money that grandpa gives them each week, and makes them use it to buy xmas gifts for their stepmom and step siblings.
As far as income goes, we are both teachers on the top step with master's degrees. Our salaries are almost equal. When we first divorced, he stayed in the marital home and I purchased another house in the same community. He refinanced a very low mortgage and bought me out so I could make a down payment on another house and we carried equal mortgages. He immediately bought a vehicle over 20K, a camper (with his fiance), and a pure bred golden retriever.
Two years later, he sold the marital home, made 30-40K and moved into his new wife's much more expensive home and community. She can't hold a job and now they have moved to another home in the same wealthy community where also works.
The sale of the house was due to her previous divorce and her children becoming of age. Both are out of the home (one teaches in Florida and the other began college this Fall)In the three years that they have been married, they have taken at least three major vacations to Mexico, and the Bahamas. I know that I couldn't afford that lifestyle and when I see that the children are on the back burner it makes me angry.
Two years ago, when our youngest son made an all star baseball team, won the state title, and had the chance to attend a regional baseball tournament in a neighboring state, she told him and me that the child didn't have to stay overnight at the hotel with the rest of the team. The child could commute one hour back and forth every day for a week to spare the costs. The team canned and raised money to reduce the costs and they finally agreed that the child could stay with the team at my expense.
My post is not to defend myself to you, gr8dad. I am sure that you will find every opportunity to twist my story and make me out to be the bad guy.
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NanV58
newbie
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
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gr8dad...
In response to Onyx' posts, I have followed enough of your story to know that you carry a heavy burden in your divorce.
I also, do appreciate the male perspective, but believe that I am the butt of the joke in my situation.
I have been slow to challenge my ex in the past but have reached a point where I cannot continue with the games that are being played on all fronts....not just the child support issues.
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Onyx
old hand
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 816
Loc: Buffalo NY
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(((((((((Hugs Nan))))))))) You'll be okay. Its going to be rough, really rough. You seem like a strong person. Took a lot for you to post this to gr8dad. I applaud you for it, and for the efforts you are making in your personal life. We are all here for you, even gr8dad. Keep asking questions, and the more answers you get, the better you will be able to handle things there; there might be a combination of two different perspectives that you can put together to get your own tailored solution.... see what I mean?. Even the posts from Eric are useful for a laugh or two, and remember, always do the opposite of what he says.... <g> Love and Blessings, Onyx
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"Don't Make Me Get My Flying Monkeys"
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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Are you currently involved with someone on a serious level?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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NanV58
newbie
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
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Oh no, gr8Dad...whatever could this question mean? I fear to answer but I will and suffer the wrath....:)
Yes, I am seriously involved with someone and have been since the initial divorce. What bearing does this have on my situation?
Please be kind.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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...that all of these problems seem to start when he got involved with someone. I do not know, nor am I indicating that this is the case in your situation, but SOME people(mostly women) get along fine with their ex's as long as they are the one's callign the shots, but when the ex gets a significant other, and they have someone telling then that this is not right, and they should fight it, all hell breaks loose.
May not be your situation, but maybe it is, just something to consider.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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my hell, mostly women...and you have statistics on this?? For someone that screams equality as much as you do...you never seem to just look at the individual..its always men vs women. So tell me mate.. when you hear about all the shootings of the ex because they have found a new beau...they are mostly women doing the killing right. In the last year we have had 4 people killed here becuase their exs found someone new. Guess what mate...they are all women.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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...women are MORE likely (per US Census and Dept of Health and Human Services) to kill their spouse. Women are MORE likely to get custody, and women are more likely to be in "control" of the issue of access to the children. It is not until the second wife comes along, and convinces the man that he IS entitled to some rights, and he IS entitled to parent the children, that the friction starts. It is NOT an issue of violence, but it IS an issue of control.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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NanV58
newbie
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
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Yes, the major problems started when he moved out of the marital home and into her home with, at the time, one child in high school and one in college. Her children have almost nothing to do with their biological father and I think that is very sad and unfortunate. I don't doubt that his new wife is challenging our parenting agreement and making it difficult to coparent as we had in the past. But does she rule how we handle our children or do we? Every decision he makes has to be approved by her. It is a nightmare and quite frankly I don't know how to handle it.
I feel sorry for him but not enough to stop caring about how this all impacts on our children and myself. I just can't be that selfless.
I made it very clear to my significant other that my children will always be utmost in my life and nothing will get in the way of that. On a moment's notice, I have been asked to care for the children on days that they are to be with Dad and I don't have to ask anyone permission. Baloney!
His new wife has held at least five different jobs in the three years that they have been married. When she isn't working she won't help transport the children to school, never attends a school dance, a baseball game, a play.
When they first got together months after the divorce, she told me she loved the boys and we sat at scout events, baseball games, and a birthday party together. We even shared cigarettes together. This was before he sold the house and moved to another town. Then, bamm, no sharing expenses, Dad doesn't participate in younger son's baseball,
signs the same son up for basketball in his community, to which I faithfully bring him on Saturdays, and he doesn't even attend those games that are down the street from where he lives on his regularly scheduled weekends. He hasn't set foot in a parent teacher conference in two years because he objects to the fact that they remained in their established school settings when he moved to another town. What message does that send to the little boy who works so hard in school and gets A's and B's? Our older son is enrolled in rel. ed. in his community because the program at the church we always attended falls on a Monday when our son is with Dad. A few months ago, the child had a confirmation orientation at the church on a Tuesday evening and I brought him there, sat in a strange church which they never set foot in, and listened to how our son will make this sacrament surrounded by a community of family and friends. Dad literally lives down the street from the church. Why didn't he attend on his son's behalf? Last weekend, after not seeing the boys for one week because of car problems and asking me to keep the children, he was planning to go clothes shopping with his wife and her college age daughter (for her birthday). The boys would have been home alone for the evening but for the fact that the younger one had strep throat and he had to stay home. Now you might say that this is again an isolated incident but this is not the fact. The children, on many occasions, are left alone so they can attend parties, work out at the YMCA, etc. The boys are always outside playing from 9AM to 7Pm on weekends. Now I know that boys are active and love to play outdoors but it is like they aren't allowed in the house with friends. The children have told me on many occasions that they are not to discuss anything that happens at their Dad's home. The whole situation is so mysterious and devious. When they moved earlier this November, and I knew the house was on the market since the summer, I was informed after they had already moved, via an email directing me where to send my half of our older son's tuition payment It breaks my heart to see how the relationship between Dad and the boys has diminished but I didn't create the chasm.
I saw the problems in 2001 and repeatedly asked to attend mediation. It stinks.
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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I just want to understand how your arrangement is supposed to work. YOu both agreed to no support since you have the child equally, right? But you agreed to share receipts? Let me see if I understand why...you each keep track of what you spend on the child each year and then you check each other's receipts to see if you spent the same amount or if one of you spent more, right? Then what? Does the greater spender get a rebate from the lesser spender? What's the point of the receipts? I don't get it...if there's no support, then there's no need for receipts.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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They give each other reciepts for expenses. He decided, in 2002 (apparently with the input of his new wife, who we are now aware, Mom does NOT like), that this was not going to happen any more. Well, she has saved reciepts, and she presented them to him. He ignored them for quite some time (2 years). She saved them up, and over 2 years, the total now comes to $4000. She wants him to pay. He presented his OWN list of things HE bought the child, and she has a problem with the things on the list. Soemthing like $94 for hats (of course, over a two year period, that really isn't all that much). She thinks he should pay for presents SHE bought for the children to take to another friends birthday party, but does not want to allow $100 that HE paid for a bike for the child. Seems like she expects him to accept HER list, but she wants to tear his to shreds to see if he REALLY spent this much, or if the kids REALLY needed that stuff. You know, standard, "What is good for the goose, is NOT good for the gander..."
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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NanV58
newbie
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
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I am glad that you asked as I specifically referred back to the final judgement which states " that in lieu of a child support order, the parties agree to share equally, all costs and expenses associated with the minor children."
Since the judgement did not specify how we would carry out equally sharing all costs and expenses associated with the children, we agreed informally and then in writing (but with no court order) that we would submit expenses to each other on a monthly basis. I would pay half of what he submitted and he would pay half of what I submitted. If there was any discrepency we would discuss it. There were very minor problems with this arrangement from 2000-August 2002 when, as I have stated, my ex out of the blue informed me that he would no longer ackowledge any expenses that I submitted. He stopped any assistance and no longer sent me any receipts.
When I asked my lawyer about this she advised me that it wasn't worth it to take him to court for a few hundred dollars and I didn't argue about it. Okay, so mom just keeps doing what she has been doing and dad will hopefully do the same. But that hasn't been the case.
Am I being totally dense or does anything I am saying make sense? My 14 year old son has not worn a pair of pants that his Dad has purchased in two years. I buy the winter coats each year (on sale), and see to it that they get haircuts most of the time (Dad takes them twice a year). While our younger son has played baseball from before the divorce until the present, Dad no longer contributes to registration fees and while he and his new wife actually fitted our son for his state championship jacket two years ago, he never paid one dime toward the $92 jacket. Twelve kids on the tournament team. What do I tell a 9 year old. You can't have the jacket because Dad won't pay for half? No, I purchase it and he proudly wears it to school and back and forth between both our homes. This same Dad won't acknowledge expenses and then has the nerve to call me to ask that I provide nice outfits for the boys to wear for a holiday when the children are in his custody. I've had said okay to this and much more for two years.
Something has to change. How do you ignore it when your children come to you with holes in their sneakers after spending a week's vacation with Dad in the middle of February. Do you call Dad, get angry, and insist that he buys them, or do you just get to a store, regardless of anything else and put decent shoes on your kids? We are talking about a man with a master's degree who is a teacher like I am. We both have decent and fairly equal salaries.
What am I missing?
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NanV58
newbie
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
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You are right gr8dad, I do not like a woman who does not welcome our children into her home.
The $98 expense for hats was not for two years. It was listed as one expense from 12/20/03 for boys' gloves and hats. Wouldn't your ears perk up if someone handed you such a item?
Again, I am reiterating that I don't care that he submitted a $100 bike expense for our son's birthday gift. I did not, however, even think to include gifts to our children in my expenses.
As far as gifts for other children go, if visitation has it that the children are with me for most birthday parties of friends, then I have incurred legitimate expenses for the children to attend these events. Last year, for instance, our older son attended two Bar Mitzvahs. He needed a sports jacket (having outgrown the only other one he had ever owned from years before) so I bought it for the kid.
Just last week the same child had a fairly ritzy birthday party to attend when he was with his Dad. At bedtime, the night before the party, our son asked me if he could pack up his khaki pants and a polo shirt to wear to the party. He left for school at 7:30am with the clothes in a bag. Dad ended up stopping by my home after school and I brought shoes (non-sneakers) to his vehicle and asked him (my ex) if he thought our son needed them. He agreed that the shoes should be worn, so I nicely handed them over. Dad laughs at me.
And on another note...at the time of our divorce, my husband entertained the thought of putting in a clause that disallowed any overnight guests in our homes. When my lawyer said exactly what you stated....what is good for the goose, is good for the gander...he backed right down. Consequently, he rented a beach house and shared a bedroom with girlfriend, with our then 6 yr old and 9 yr old, before the divorce was even final. Furthermore, his then girlfriend left her own two teenage children at home alone to sleep at his house with the children present within months of our separation.
I don't want to tear his precious list to shreds. I do know, however, if the shoe was on the other foot, he'd come after me in a heartbeat. I helped pay off his student loans, my parents gave me $20,000 for our house down payment, I stayed at home for four years to care for the children while he furthered his education and I lost out on four years of a teaching career. I didn't ask for nor did he ever offer any compensation for any of this at the time of the divorce. He actually had the nerve to question his right to savings bonds that my deceased grandmother had given me since my birth over 40 years ago. Fortunately I had never touched them or he would have taken half of that as well.
I hear so many stories of how women do seem to get everything when they divorce....the house, alimony, custody, child support. I didn't ask and didn't want anything more than I really needed to begin a new life. I only hoped that we could, after much reflection and research, maintain a civil coparenting relationship for the sake of our beautiful boys.
It is comments such as yours and men who behave as he has that have turned my stomach inside out and feeling like I never imagined I would. Friends warned me that what is happening would but I adamantly defended him, saying he would never dismiss his boys. He has and it is difficult.
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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but that's got to be the stupidest child support order I've ever heard of! Like you experienced...things went along smoothly for a while...but then something changed...and there is no longer the acceptance and cooperation. You need a set child support order. What state are you in? and are your incomes very far apart? If the incomes are close, then you likely wouldn't get any support for a 50/50 arrangement with equal incomes. However, if there is a difference in your incomes, a child support amount is likely...not a hugh amount. I'd get that changed immediately and forget about your $4000....he's not going to pay it....and it doesn't appear that your order is very enforceable. All he has to do is say he didn't agree with your expenses or even claim that your order doesn't not warrant any review or correction of expenses. I hope you're not using the same attorney, cuz you got screwed by the one who crafted your orders.
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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You claim how it's always the woman...only as long as you're referring to the CP. Then you claim when the new spouse comes along, it's all about control...but only if it's the woman CP you're referring to. It doesn't dawn on you that if women always want it about control that the second wife is also a woman who may be controlling. That of course can't happen, in your narrow view. Guess it also explains why my dad, who never paid a cent in support, decided to have nothing to do with my brother and I, because his non-controlling second wife did not want to even acknowledge that he had a first family. SHE was his family and she made sure he knew that.
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Char Fox
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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[quote]...women are MORE likely (per US Census and Dept of Health and Human Services) to kill their spouse. Send me the link to this information and off the dept of human services not quoted by them on a male oriented web site. As to the last half of your statement...this goes both ways. This equality based on the way it is addressed on these web sites is not helping your cause mate. Equality will only happen when you stop looking at male or female and look what and or who is best for the child.
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Eric
old hand
Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 807
Loc: USA
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"Equality will only happen when you stop looking at male or female and look what and or who is best for the child."
Do we really want a "few" to tell us this let alone calling it equality?
It takes BOTH parents, as equally as possible to raise a well educated, natured and proper child into an adult. Not just one that may be "more qualified" based upon what the judges are to look at for these "guiding principles" that only reflect what most consider the "mothers role" when in reality, is totally gibberish based upon all the studies to the contrary...
Good luck to those that can see what the feminazi PIGS are trying to do on this board.
For the rest? Open your eyes.
Eric
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Equality is not a difficult concept
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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Welcome back mate...glad to see you stopped drooling down your chin and decided to put it here instead. Yes do not listen to the few..listen to only Sir Eric..our own village idiot. Actually, you dont need parents to raise a well rounded well educated person to an adult. You need someone that will love, nurture and guide the child. IN case anyone has noticed there are a great deal of grandparents raising their grandchildren now days...and I dont think they are all going to end up in jail. Again having sex does not make one a great mum or dad, only a parent. Some of these arent any better then sperm and or egg donors for all the good they do in their childrens lives. MY hell, with that comment I am getting a visual...Sir Eric has children, which means someone had sex with the mate... now I am going to chunder.
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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Yoou must be very careful when going to some of these web sites mate. If you look at the top you have often been redirected to a promale or profemale site. This information is from www.fbi.gov...and was in PDF format so no redirect.
Murders in the US in 1995
Victims
Percent
of total
Total Murders 21,597 100
Men 16,630 77
Women 3,752 17.4
Children (Source: CPS) 1,215 5.6
Men murdered by girlfriends/wives 3% of 16,630 499 2.31
Women murdered by boyfriends/husbands 26% of 3,752 976 4.52
Source: FBI Uniform Crime Report for 1995
so yes mate...more men are murdered but not by their spouses/girlfriends. From the same site:
---Based on supplemental data received, 77 percent of murder victims in 1995 were males, and 88 percent were persons 18 years or older. By race, 49 percent of victims were black and 48 percent were white.
---Data based on a total of 22,434 murder offenders showed that 91 percent of the assailants were males, and 85 percent were 18 years of age or older. Fifty-three percent of the offenders were black and 45 percent were white.
---Fifty-five percent of murder victims were slain by strangers or persons unknown. Among all female murder victims in 1995, 26 percent were slain by husbands or boyfriends, while 3 percent of the male victims were slain by wives or girlfriends.
IN a study just finished by the FBI for 2003 it states:
Men are more likely to be the offenders in the cases of physical and sexual abuse against children. 3.3 million children each year witness violence by a family member against their mothers or female caregivers
VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIMES IN FAMILY RELATIONSIPS BY GENDER:
Female: 1,041,498 74.82%
Male: 348,267 25.02%
1996-2001 statistics
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'm loving it! :grin:
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Char Fox
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Onyx
old hand
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 816
Loc: Buffalo NY
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You are an idiot
[quote]"Equality will only happen when you stop looking at male or female and look what and or who is best for the child."
Do we really want a "few" to tell us this let alone calling it equality?
It takes BOTH parents, as equally as possible to raise a well educated, natured and proper child into an adult. Not just one that may be "more qualified" based upon what the judges are to look at for these "guiding principles" that only reflect what most consider the "mothers role" when in reality, is totally gibberish based upon all the studies to the contrary...
Good luck to those that can see what the feminazi PIGS are trying to do on this board.
For the rest? Open your eyes.
Eric [/quote]
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"Don't Make Me Get My Flying Monkeys"
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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idiots. They aren't as bad as Eric. :grin:
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Char Fox
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NanV58
newbie
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
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almostheaven,
Thank you for the insight into the women's control issue as it relates to CPS and second wives. You hit the nail on the head as far as the influence of the new wife in parental conflicts.
For anybody who is interested in the original post, some of whom will be glad to hear that I am standing on losing ground in the expense dilemna. After listening to my lawyer's advice for two years on how to handle the financial issues surrounding our wonderful shared legal and physical placement, with no court support ordered due to equal placement and equal salaries, she now tells me today, with court three days away, that I can forget about the money. (Keep in mind that she was not involved with the original court order.) "No judge is going to want to listen to who spent $3.50 on one day and who spent $5.00 another day." I don't consider major purchases such as ongoing clothing, winter needs, sports fees petty expenses but what do I know? Okay, so I forget about the money and the fact that I am, in reality, the primary provider for two boys, operating under the law and agreement that hold us equally responsible.
My question, how do others that have shared physical placement that is suppose to be 50/50 but in reality isn't, with equal pays, manage to support their children in an equitable way? Is there such a way to hold each of us, more accountable? Whether anyone wants to believe it or not, regardless of my sex, if I took advantage of my ex as I am taken advantage of, then I would be surprised if I were not challenged and beckoned to step up to the plate.
Do I just accept this imbalance and continue for the next seven years to provide necessities that the boys need, as well as the majority of extra-curricula expenses and cough it up to life? If that is my only recourse, then so be it.
How about I get a second job so I can provide what the children need and then Dad can have the children most of the time and then I can pay him child support? The way this is going, I wouldn't be surprised if this logic holds up better than my documentation of what has really occurred in the past two years.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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...not in the mood to search for it again. The study you quote is from an FBI report alomost ten years ago. Not really current. Check out the US Department of Health and Human Services, simple enough search on the net.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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Do you think that women abusing men is funny? Murder is funny? Yet you and many others wouldbe OUTRAGED if a man laughed at a WOMAN getting hurt. You are sick.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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Do you actually read what anyone writes..only part of it is from 1995..and this negates it.. I think not. The rest is from a report JUST RELEASED !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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Thats not what she is laughing about...you automatically go for the jugular if it is not male oriented.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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MOST of it was from a report ten years ago. This brief bit is from the 2003 report:
"Men are more likely to be the offenders in the cases of physical and sexual abuse against children. 3.3 million children each year witness violence by a family member against their mothers or female caregivers
VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIMES IN FAMILY RELATIONSIPS BY GENDER:
Female: 1,041,498 74.82%
Male: 348,267 25.02%
1996-2001 statistics"
And even THAT is worded carefully. I am going to educate you here, so pay attention. They state, "Men are more likely to be the offenders in the cases of physical and sexual abuse against children" NOT fathers, MEN. This includes strangers you abduct and harm children.
Also, it states, "3.3 million children each year witness violence by a family member against their mothers or female caregivers" Now, that includes boyfriends, other FEMALE members of the family, etc. It is a proven fact that in lesbian relationships, the level of violence is fairly high (not biased, got no homophobic tendencies, just stating a fact). So how does this show that men are more violent? it doesn't.
Also, it states, "VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIMES IN FAMILY RELATIONSIPS BY GENDER:
Female: 1,041,498 74.82%
Male: 348,267 25.02%
1996-2001 statistics"
Okay, again, the lesbian thing is included, as well as not spousal domestic violence, including child abuse.
These statistics are way to general and do not break the info down into a comprehensible or usable format.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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G'day luv. Just because you have 50/50 doesnt mean one doesnt have to pay support. This often times depends on your incomes. The best thing to do under these circumstances is he buys things for them for his house and you for yours.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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...as they expect to hold others to. Unfortunately, this goes in the face of some women on this board who are all for equality, as long as there is a man there to pay for it.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Eric
old hand
Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 807
Loc: USA
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ignoramous' say...
You know what you are talking about Gr8Dad...
Afterall, most eveything you quote is already on the FIRM site... :)
Eric
www.FIRMncp.com
P.S.: The rest that you quote? In my Documents and Favorites folders.
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Equality is not a difficult concept
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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Mate I can be educated.. but not by you.. you are way to angry and feeling picked on and your figures come from women bashing sites... when Eric agrees with you.. cant be all right..
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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now let me educate you mate.. you didnt say mothers.. you said women in your posts...
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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...disregard information because someone you don't like AGREES with it shows a level of maturity that I am used to dealing with on this board. Don't be another one of those. Yes, I disagree with Eric on a regular basis, but right is right, regardless of who agrees with it.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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nm
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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you should be used to dealing with it mate..you've been in the gutter with us many times..I move over often... so you can go by. As to your assertion that the figures dont take in to account the lesbians.. oh my hell.. what about the gays mate.. there are more of those.. statistically then lesbians....but you dont deduct these from your male violence figures do you. This is from your Department of human services which then transfers you to the bureau of justice statistics
Intimate violence
In 2002, women experienced an estimated 494,570 rape, sexual assault, robbery, aggravated assault and simple assault victimizations at the hands of an intimate, down from 1.1 million in 1993. In 1993, men were victims of about 160,000 violent crimes by an intimate partner, and in 2002 men were victims of about 72,520 violent crimes by an intimate partner.
Intimate violence is primarily a crime against women -- in 1998, females were the victims in 72% of intimate murders and the victims of about 85% of nonlethal intimate violence.
Women age 16-24 experienced the highest per capita rates of intimate violence (19.6 victimizations per 1,000 women).
Intimates (current and former spouses, boyfriends and girlfriends) were identified by the victims as the perpetrators of about 1% of all workplace violent crime.
About 85 percent of victimizations by intimate partners are against women (of which approximately 2 percent is between same-sex partners), 15 percent against men (of which 10 percent is between same sex partners)
Talk all you want...I will trust these figures any day over some women bashing site that though it might make you feel better.. has no validity. And dont get hung up on the 1998 quote mate.. as the top one is as recent as 2002.
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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and wrong is wrong regardless of who agrees with you. Thats alright mate...you and I can banter...still respect the fact that you are doing your best to be a great father so I will defend your right to be wrong to the death...
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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That is such a HUGE leap in the stats that it would have been a major news report that women suddenly went on a partner killing spree and men suddenly slowed down their murders.
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Char Fox
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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and pretty stupid if that's what you got out of it. Try again moron.
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Char Fox
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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Wondering when your namecalling, insulting personality would show up. Hey folks, step right up and meet her...
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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"You are >>>sick<<<."
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Char Fox
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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give it a rest...please? The poor woman's thread is so dang long and off topic, she can't possibly get the responses she needed. I realize Eric started it all with another of his long winded whining diatribes, but let it go, K?
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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of course luv, for you. Going back to my corner now.
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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I wasn't directing my request to you in particular...you're the most polite person to argue with!!!!
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Onyx
old hand
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 816
Loc: Buffalo NY
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Putting words in gr8dads mouth now huh? What a joke. He does know what hes talking about, and not because of your dribbly little website... he speaks from real life. You really do think you are the end all be all of divorce information, dont you? LMFAO, three times. And as for ignoramous'? You *are* the authority on that, I will give you that.
[quote]ignoramous' say...
You know what you are talking about Gr8Dad...
Afterall, most eveything you quote is already on the FIRM site... :)
Eric
www.FIRMncp.com
P.S.: The rest that you quote? In my Documents and Favorites folders. [/quote]
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"Don't Make Me Get My Flying Monkeys"
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Diane67
enthusiast
Reged: 08/14/04
Posts: 341
Loc: California
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Need to get back on topic. 50/50 with shared bills. It would be a lot faster if we could all just sit in a room somewhere and duke it out though.
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NanV58
newbie
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
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Once again, I hope we can get back on the topic. I am off to see my lawyer in a few minutes and I will report back on her latest response. Does anyone out there share this situation with a happy ending?
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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I'm interested in how it all plays out, though. Good luck.
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19803
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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I guess my first question would be...exactly what is the hearing for? Who petitioned the court for what?
Okay. about the "equality" of the expenses, it's not a big deal. You say that you didn't include "vacation/birthday" expenses while he did...SO...either include yours or throw out his. In either case, your expenses will reflect that you have the greater share.
As for the amounts of some of his expeditures, you want to be careful about "nitpicking" and be more "reasonable". What I mean by this is yes, $94 for hat and gloves MAY seem like a lot to YOU, but it all depends on where he shopped. It's the same thing with the rest of the "clothing" expenses that seem high because you state you see the boys every day and know what they wear. Have you considered that 1) maybe they don't like to WEAR what Dad has bought them, 2) a lot of high-dollar stuff looks just like something you could buy at WalMart and Target, and 3) have you considered what you don't "see", like T-shirts, socks, underwear and pajamas?
As for the registration fee for the Winter League; from what you are saying, since the child did not play, the expense does not "count" or is not "real". Go ahead and ask for a receipt (given the circumstances), but don't be surprised to find out that the child changed his mind about wanting to play.
Considering how long I have been around "family law", you'll have to forgive my cynicism when I see statements like: "And lastly, I have not asked for any compensation considering that our 50/50 physical placement has been 60/40 for the past year." No offense, but isn't this what this hearing with all it's "receipts" about, that you want "compensation" (ie child support)?
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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NanV58
newbie
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
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Gecko,
Finally, we're back on track. I filed the motion to look at several issues concerning educational placement, sports involvement, a more equitable way of sharing expenses.
I am not going to start to add vacation/gift expenses. Those items I feel are left to our own discretion. I agree. My expenses reflect I have the greater share simply because I assume more parenting responsibility.
I also understand what you mean by nitpicking. Again, it the shoe were on the other foot, and he was seeing that all the children ever wore were what he purchased, then I think he would question the motive of my ingoring his bill submissions. Does this make sense? He did include underwear and socks (and again, I never thought to add those expenses into the mix because it seemed to go without saying that mom and dad would buy those very basic items considering that we share placement and maintenance of the children.
As far as the sports fee for the winter clinic, I think what you are saying is that Dad registered the child with the intention that he played and then, since the child changed his mind, Dad lost out on that money. I know the child didn't play for a fact and if anyone changed their mind, it was Dad, not the child. Believe me...this is a once a week sport and this child loves to be engaged in these activities.
I do not take offense in your last statement. I am not out for blood but neither do I want to sit back and be taken advantage of in terms of money. My logic has been as follows: 1)We continue to keep the children 50/50 and while I do not feel he is equally contributing to all costs and expenses in an equitable way....okay I deal with it.
2) Now, however, every week or so, for one reason or another, he can't keep the boys when he is to have them. "Could you keep the boys on Monday, or my car broke down and I can't get them to school in the morning so can you pick them up from school tomorrow and let them stay with you." Or, I refuse to bring "A" to his baseball practice on my Saturday so you can pick him up and return him five hours later. Or, "A" has a school band concert next week and it makes more sense for you to pick him up from school, do homework, feed him and keep him overnight. Some say to tell him no but it really isn't practical. So
3) Not only is he not sharing equally in the 50/50 placement and financial end but now I am assuming more and more of the physical responsibility and expenses that go with having the children on a more frequent basis.
So, in short, I ask, how much to I continue to give without his acknowledgement that something is not balanced in this picture?
Thanks for insight....
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19803
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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So, in short, I ask, how much to I continue to give without his acknowledgement that something is not balanced in this picture?
---> You don't...continue that is. You simply tell him...hey DAD, these are OUR children...not YOUR children, not MY children, but OUR children. As such, WE, not YOU, not me, but WE have a responsibility to take care of them and it was something that we BOTH agreed to. But in the last year, the "WE" has taken a vacation and I find myself not ONLY taken on the greater parental responsibility, but the financial responsibility as well and quite frankly, either WE go back to BOTH being "parents" (physically and financially), or I file for a modification.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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NanV58
newbie
Reged: 06/27/04
Posts: 39
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I think I will use your words verbatim. Hopefully I will be able to communicate this through mediation which is now the route my motion is taking. I was scheduled for court tomorrow and my lawyer spoke with his and he agreed that it was a good idea. Duh??/ The divorce decree says we must mediate before litigation. I have been trying to get him into mediation for two years without success. My lawyer said that court ordered mediation will not occur unless you have a motion so I guess the wait was worth something.
It will be interesting to hear what a "neutral" party has to say about the situation and what will be suggested to the court after hearing both sides.
I have never had malicious motives and do not now. I hope to receive some closure within the next few months to prove I have not lost my mind.
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Eric
old hand
Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 807
Loc: USA
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You don't disagree with me on a regular basis (except, perhaps my approach).
You and I have only had one major disagreement and you still won't forgive me for disagreeing with you... :)
It's ok. Personally? I don't care if we disagree upon that one MAJOR point. Why should you make it so personal? I certainly don't and have tried to show that for the about 6-9 months since I "crossed" you... ;)
But, let's be realistic. You do promote what I do and the 3 major feminazi PIGS on this site will do practically ANYTHING for you not to join forces with me as evidenced by their rampant rim kissing of you lately (until you blatantly go against what they state)...
Hey! If it works, don't fix it... :)
Personally? It can be "fine tuned." :)
Eric
www.FIRMncp.com
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Equality is not a difficult concept
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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Sorry Melody luv.. I am trying to behave but My hell here comes the village idiot 3 days and half a brain short
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tjonzen420
recently joined
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 8
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What a pathetic waste of life you are, to bad your mother didn't consider abortion as an option!!!! (you are why some fight for pro-choice) My wife is currently a member and somtimes I check out what she is reading on this board. I have never posted before, but tonight I just couldn't sit still. You and "gr8dad" must have only gotten married for the sex and just somehow got stuck with having kids!!!! (now you seem to think the world owes you and anyone else with the proper equipment) You guys are so bitter, you remind me of my wife's ex, who is also a pathetic waste of life. You guys call yourselves men, but I can't really bring myself to believe that. I really feel sorry for your kids and your ex-wives, and if I was them, I would take everything you have. You're really lucky that they didn't make you one of those statistics you punks keep pasting onto your replies. As you can tell, I am a person who will tell you exactly how I feel. It really seems like you waste too much time studying this sh*t and not enough time with your kids!!!! Again, just like my wife's ex. I am more of a father to my stepchild than he is. Why are you guys so damn bitter? Did your ex do a Lorena Bobbit on you? If they did, you deserved it (you really shouldn't procreate anymore). Eric, I feel sorry for the next woman or man that you sucker into marrying your sorry a*s!!! Yes Eric, I really do think that you are probably gay now!!! Oh Eric, thank you for posting your pic at once, because now I know who to look for when I want to beat the sh*t out of some idiot!!! If I had your address. I would send you guys some nails, so the next time you feel persecuted, you could go find a cross and nail yourselves to it!!!
What does FIRM stand for anyway? I have my own ideas for a good name for you.
Foolish
Idiots
Recruiting
Morons
Fellowship of
Irresponsible
Rowdy
Mongrels
For
Insignificant
Repugnant
Males
Farting
In
Rythmic
Music
First
In
Redundant
Madness
Fondling
Irresistable
Robust
Midgets
Need anymore????
Sorry to any ladies that I have offended, but it just had to be done!!!! And, pats on the backs to all the real men here.
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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I was ROFLMAO!!!! :grin:
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Char Fox
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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nm
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30199
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Usually, when one begins a rant, that at least have SOMETHING of substance, a critique of a post, a debatable point in an article, SOMETHING with which to work in your protrayal of the subject as less than accurate or wrong.
You, with surprising ease and not a little bit of poetic license, skipped that step all together. Rushing headlong into the fray, you insult, attack, make baseless claims, and generally verbally assail the subect/subjects.
Bravo and kudos to you sir, for your mastery of the english language surely surpasses that of your average public restroom wall writer.
Oh, and although some might see it as lowering myself to your level, or continuing a flame post, I simply consider it a departure from my normally goo nature. You, sir, are a fool, a moron, a charlitain(sp?), a mere speck of dust in the grand scheme of things. Have a nice day.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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I snagged this back in 2000. It's a keeper.
That's it, O Ambassador Plenipotentiary of the State of Hebetude-
Your fustian, flagitious expostulations deserve this response:
You are an apogenous, bovaristic, coprolalial, dasypygal,
excerebrose, facinorous, gnathonic, hircine, ithyphallic, jumentous, kyphotic, labrose, mephitic, napiform, oligophrenial, papuliferous, quisquilian, rebarbative, saponaceous, thersitical, unguinous, ventripotent, wlatsome,
xylocephalous, yirning zoophyte.
Or, more simply:
You are an impotent, conceited, obscene, hairy-buttocked, brainless, wicked, toadying, goatish, indecent, stable-smelling,hunchbacked,thick-lipped, stinking, turnip-shaped, feeble-minded, pimply, trashy, repellent, smarmy, foul-mouthed, greasy, gluttonous, loathsome, wooden-headed, whining, extremely low form of animal life....
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Char Fox
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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Personally I thought it was a great post.. at least he didnt nail the women here using some sorry assed excuse of non verifiable sources ...he just said what he thinks. I for one would have some respect for Eric if he was just honest and said he is a selfish, cheap drunken wanger that didnt want to share his quid with his offspring.
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tjonzen420
recently joined
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 8
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Here I sit, alone and broken hearted, had to s**t, but only farted\ The S**thouse Poet
Sorry, just reliving my past a little. You know, the days when I would sit for hours writing on bathroom stalls.
Gr8dad, if I have assaulted and insulted you too much, I apologize. But think of the women here that you have assaulted. Lighten up. You got stuck with a bad apple and not all women are that way. Some are wonderful! My wife has gone through so much hell with her ex, it's really pathetic. My post was really aimed at the jerk here, Sir Eric The Drunk.
I do realize that the two of you are not in the same league.
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