qeggleston1
recently joined
Reged: 12/01/04
Posts: 10
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I welcome any help I can get. I'm the proud mom of a 5 year old son. I was awarded child support in VA- Dec. 2002. I recieved a total of $500 in 2003 and a total of $850 in 2004. Since December 2002, I've worked 2 jobs trying to make ends meet.
When I was awarded support in Dec 2002, The judge ordered the dad to pay me $820 per month. I begged the judge to lower the amount, thinking the high amount would keep the dad away from my son. The judge reluctantly awarded $450.00 because I begged her to.
Once the dad left court, my son had stayed with him for a total of about 2 visits. So, reducing the amount didn't keep the dad in the picture.
In August 2004, I opened a case with the Child Support Enforcment office. My son's father quit his job once he received notification from the CSE office. Being sympathic to my son's father once again, I didn't claim the thousands of dollars that were due to me in arreas. I claimed a total of $1200. The CSE case worker asked me if I was sure if I wanted to claim the low amount and I told her I felt if I claimed the thousands of dollars it would affect the relationship my son had with his dad.
Well, the dad didn't wish my son a happy 5th birthday this year, no gift,, nothing. Yet he called me on my son's birthday to argue about the case.
My son's father has recently gotten married and his wife is an attorney who works out of her home, They live in one of the richest area's in VA and he drives a brand new truck.
In November, I received a notice from the Child Support office saying my case was being reviewed per the dad's request and I needed to provide income, daycare and medical verification. Which I happy provided.
I've made many consessions to my son's father, I've been sympathic and at times made poor decisions regarding the matter at hand by letting him off the hook. If I can work 2 jobs to support my son,,,,How can the office of child support reduce or even stop my payments?? (Payments I've never received consistantly.
From what I see, the dad is choosing to be unemployed because his wife is willing to take care of him at this moment.
Please give your advice and thanks for your help.
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almostheaven
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Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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They may reduce them. However, if you argue that he voluntarily quit his job, they may not even reduce them. In fact, because you asked that they lower it from guideline the first time in court, he may be shooting himself in the foot. Because the court may increase it to guideline based on imputed income that he "could" have been earning had he not quit his job.
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Char Fox
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Eric
old hand
Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 807
Loc: USA
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So, are you asking if the money will substitute the father?
Emaphatically no.
So, why pursue this?
Besides, no child costs that much to raise. One day you will have to look in the mirror. Do the right thing.
Good luck,
Eric
P.S.: I have no sympathy for the scoundrel. What I hate is seeing others use children for their own perceived injustices...to validify seeking money that they did not earn nor deserve.
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Equality is not a difficult concept
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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Eric ole mate not evryone makes minimum wage like you do..did you even listen to the judge in your case..of course you didnt mate...thats one of the reasons why you didnt get your wee ones. Child support is to support the wee ones in as close to the life it would lead had the two parents stayed married. So if the one paying child support makes say 100k and the other makes 20k this child is not to be raised as if there is an income of 20k. A good parent supports their child in all ways and financial is one of those ways. Not everyone here is worried that it will cut into their booze fund
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qeggleston1
recently joined
Reged: 12/01/04
Posts: 10
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Eric, I'm not sure if I understand what you are saying. Should I resume my second job to continue making ends meet when the dad has good health to get out in work?
Are you telling me I should let the case go because I've been supporting my son over the years anyway???
My point is his lifestyle hasn't changed, what FATHER who owes thousand dollars in arrears and buys a brand new truck
anyway? I know I choose a dad beat man to father my son. I take full responsiblity of that. My question is should I not seek the child support that's due to my son? Please clarify your comments.
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qeggleston1
recently joined
Reged: 12/01/04
Posts: 10
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"Besides, no child costs that much to raise. "
Eric,
Just to follow-up w/ your comment. I'm not sure what area you are from but, my 5 year old is in a before and after school program. That cost me $500 per month. The before school program opens at 7:15 so, I have to pay someone $120 additional per month to watch my son the for 1 1/2 hours before school and when school is out because the before and afterschool program run on the schools schedule. By the way, I live in Northern VA, outside of Washington DC and if I could find cheaper day care options I would. I've only expressed the cost of daycare, Eric should I go on and itemize my other expenses???? It does cost alot to raise a child if you are doing it solo. Thanks for your concern.
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qeggleston1
recently joined
Reged: 12/01/04
Posts: 10
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aussie- thanks for your support. I actually thought i was going overboard by seeking support after reading Eric's email. My case is I was awarded child support in 2002 (I even asked the judge for a lesser amount- feeling sorry for the dad), then wrote off thousands of dollars in arrears. (once again, trying to keep the peace)
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Eric
old hand
Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 807
Loc: USA
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I did not state any of your questions.
Please re-read. If you can look yourself in the mirror, did you part, you have nothing to complain about.
To Aussie? Still nuts, eh, mate?
Want to change these atrocities?
Welcome home...to FIRM,
Eric
www.FIRMncp.com
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Equality is not a difficult concept
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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sorry luv..you are new here.. we may not all have the exact same response...but never....never listen to our very own village idiot.. Sir Eric..how dare you take money out of the very pocket that supplies large quantities of cheap wine...now placed directly into his veins..
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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yes I do have nuts mate.. jealous.. lol
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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I have read here that it only costs about 400 dollars a month to raise a child and how women only want child support to pay for their expensive habits. Below is quite long but worth the read it is from www.usda.gov/cnpp
Some believe that better child support enforcement and awards more in line with the cost of raising children would have little affect on single mothers and their children because of one problem: noncustodial fathers are unable to pay such support. A 1996 study generally found otherwise (12). The study found that noncustodial fathers had a significantly higher standard of living than custodial mothers. On average, noncustodial parents spent 7 percent of their before-tax income on child support in 1990; this includes fathers who do not pay child support. Among noncustodial fathers who pay child support, 60 percent spend less than 15 percent of their income on child support. The average payer provided about $3,400 in child support for two children in 1990. It was estimated that noncustodial fathers actually paid between $14 and $ 15 billion in child support in 1990 and that they could have paid between $30 and $34 billion more.
A 1997 study supported this finding when it concluded that fathers on average are able to pay nearly five times more in child support than they pay (7). Another study found that 16 to 33 percent of young noncustodial fathers (ages 18-34) had problems paying child support because of lack of income (8). More flexible child support orders are proposed for these fathers.
Original child support guidelines in many States were based on older child-rearing expense studies that yielded relatively low child-rearing expense estimates. Periodic revisions of child support guidelines need to reflect current estimates of the cost of raising children. By doing so, child support awards can improve the economic well-being of children in single-parent families.
[1] The custodial parent has primary physical care of a child. It does not necessarily mean the parent has sole legal or sole physical custody. The noncustodial parent does not have primary physical care of a child; although, a child can reside with this parent some portion of the time.
[2] The administrative report has a detailed description of the USDA methodology used to estimate child-rearing expenses and a discussion of the expenses (6).
[3] The estimates are based on all households, including those with and without specific expenses. So, for some families their expenditures may be higher or lower than the mean estimates, depending on whether they incur the expense or not. This particularly applies to child care/education for which about 50 percent of families in the study had no expenditure.
References
(1.) Barnow, B.S. 1994. Economic studies of expenditures on children and their relationship to child support guidelines. In M.C. Haynes (Ed.), Child Support Guidelines: The Next Generation (pp. 18-28). U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, Office of Child Support Enforcement.
(2.) Beller, A.H. and Graham, J.W. 1993. The Economics of Child Support. Yale University Press, New Haven.
(3.) Bieniewicz, D.J. 1994. Child support guidelines developed by children's rights council. In M.C. Haynes (Ed.), Child Support Guidelines: The Next Generation (pp. 104-125). U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, Office of Child Support Enforcement.
(4.) Bumpass, L.L. 1984. Children and marital disruption: A replication and update. Demography 21(1):71-82.
(5.) Dodson, D. and Entmacher, J. 1994. Report Card on State Child Support Guidelines. Women's Legal Defense Fund, Washington, DC
(6.) Lino, M. 1997. Expenditures on Children by Families, 1996 Annual Report. U.S. Department of Agriculture, Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion. Miscellaneous Publication No. 1528-1996.
(7.) Miller, C., Garfinkel, I., and McLanahan, S. 1997. Child support in the U.S.: Can fathers afford to pay more? Review of Income and Wealth 43(3):261-281.
(8.) Mincy, R.B. and Sorensen, E.J. 1998. Deadbeats and turnips in child support reform. Journal of Policy Analysis and Management 17(1):44-51.
(9.) Pirog-Good, M.A. 1993. Child support guidelines and the economic well-being of children in the United States. Family Relations 42:453-462.
(10.) Rothbarth, E. 1943. Notes on a method of determining equivalent income for families of different composition. In C. Madge (Ed.), War-Time Pattern of Spending and Saving. National Institute for Economic and Social Research, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge.
(11.) Scoon-Rogers, L. and Lester, G.H. 1995. Child Support for Custodial Mothers and Fathers: 1991. Current Population Reports, Consumer Income, Series P60-187. U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census.
(12.) Sorensen, E. 1996. A national profile of noncustodial fathers and their ability to pay child support. Urban Institute working paper.
(13.) U.S. Department of Agriculture, Agricultural Research Service, Family Economics Research Group. 1992. Expenditures on a Child by Families, 1991.
(14.) U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census. 1995. Statistical Abstract of the United States, 1995. [115th ed.]
(15.) U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census. 1995. Who receives child support? Statistical Brief 95-16.
(16.) U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census. 1997. Median gross rent by bedrooms, unpublished table.
(17.) U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census. 1997. Statistical Abstract of the United States, 1997. [117th ed.]
(18.) U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, Office of Child Support Enforcement. 1990. Estimates of Expenditures on Children and Child Support Guidelines.
(19.) U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, Office of Child Support Enforcement. 1994. Child Support Enforcement Nineteenth Annual Report to Congress.
(20.) U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, Office of Child Support Enforcement. 1996. Evaluation of Child Support Guidelines. Volume 1: Findings and Conclusions. Volume II: Findings of State Guideline Reviews, State Guideline Studies, and Unstructured Interviews.
(21.) Williams, R.G. 1994. An overview of child support guidelines in the United States. In M.C. Haynes (Ed.), Child Support Guidelines: The Next Generation (pp. 1-17). U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, Office of Child Support Enforcement.
RELATED ARTICLE: Milestones in Federal Legislation Regarding Child Support Guidelines
1975: Title IV-D of the Social Security Act:
The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (then named the U .S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare) is given primary responsibility for "... establishing standards for State (child support) program organization. staffing, and operation to assure an effective program." However, primary responsibility for operating the child support enforcement program "... is placed on the States pursuant to the State plan."
1984: Child Support Enforcement Amendments:
States were required to "... formulate guidelines for determining appropriate child support obligation amounts and distribute the guidelines to judges and other individuals who possess authority to establish obligation amounts." The amendments, however, did not require judges and other officials to follow-these child support guidelines.
1988: Family Support Act of 1988:
Judges and other officials are required to "... use State guidelines for child support unless they are rebutted by a written finding that applying the guidelines would be unjust or inappropriate in a particular case." States are also required to "... review guidelines for awards every four years" and to consider economic data on the cost of raising children in this review.
1996: Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act:
This act strengthened child support enforcement provisions given the link between receipt of child support and welfare dependency.
Source: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, Office of Child Support Enforcement 1994 Child Support Enforcement Nineteenth Annual Report to Congress.
Mark Lino
Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion
COPYRIGHT 1998 Superintendent Of Documents
COPYRIGHT 2004 Gale Group
USDA REPORT ESTIMATES CHILD BORN IN 1999 WILL COST $160,140 TO RAISE
Release No. 0138.00
Mary Beth Schultheis (202) 720-4623
mary_beth.schultheis@usda.gov
John Webster (202) 418-2312
john.webster@usda.gov
USDA REPORT ESTIMATES CHILD BORN IN 1999 WILL COST $160,140 TO RAISE
WASHINGTON, April 27, 2000 Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman today
released a new report finding that a family with a child born in 1999 can
expect to spend about $160,140 ($237,000 when adjusted for inflation) for
food, shelter, and other necessities to raise that child over the next
seventeen years.
"The cost of raising a child is jUST above 2 percent from last year, a
testament to the amazingly strong U.S. economy and our low rate of inflation,"
Glickman said.
For 1999, the child-rearing cost estimate for middle-income, two-parent
families ranges from $8,450 to $9,530, depending on the age of the child.
The report by USDA's Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion notes
that family income affects child rearing costs, with low-income families
projected to spend $117,390; middle-income families $160,140; and upper-income
families $233,850 over a seventeen year period. In 1960, a middle-income
family could expect to spend $25,230 to raise a child through age seventeen.
Housing costs are the single largest expenditure on a child, averaging
$53,310 or 33 percent of the total costs over seventeen years. Food was the
second largest expense, averaging $27,990 or 18 percent of the total.
The report notes geographic variations in the cost of raising a child,
with expenses the highest for families living in the urban West, followed by
the urban Northeast and urban South. Families living in the urban Midwest and
rural areas have the lowest child-rearing expenses.
USDA develops annual estimates on the cost of raising a child to assist
state agencies and courts in determining child support guidelines and foster
care payments.
The full report, "Expenditures on Children by Families," is available on
the web at www.usda.gov/cnpp.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30386
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If, per the study, non custodial men are only paying 7% of their income to child support, and YOUNGER NC Men are UNABLE to pay due to financial inability, how can these two exist at the same time?
Also, it is not fair to SAY that men are only paying 7% on average, if you include those that are NOT paying.
Also, I would be curious to see HOW they arrived at what the cost of raising a child was, such as housing, food etc. What THINGS did they include.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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Again you do not read my entire post "Also, it is not fair to SAY that men are only paying 7% on average, if you include those that are NOT paying." In the very next sentence it says just taking into account the ones that are apying it is 15%. As to what they use to come up with this..let me quote you.. "I dont feel the need to look this up again" ....I posted the website.. it breaks it down quite nicely...and again it is in PDF format.. things look a wee bit different when these are posted on a site not geared to men or women.. just facts.
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gr8Dad
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The fact that they came up with a three tiered finding, one for low income, one for medium income, and one for high income, indicates that they are not looking at items of TRUE neccesity. It costs no more to raise the child of a doctor than it does to raise the child of a janitor.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Onyx
old hand
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 816
Loc: Buffalo NY
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Wrong. It would cost more for a Doctor to raise his kids. Tell you why... standard of living. A Doctor provides more for their kids, in most cases, because he can. Wouldnt you, if you had the means? I know I would. So, yes, it should be set according to income. If my ex hadnt been on SSI, my CS would have only been 25.00 per month, because he doesnt work. Since he is disabled, my child gets a suppliment check from the govt. that amounts to almost 400.00. Yes, the ex worked for years before he became disabled, he owned his own business for about 6 years before I met him. I could be wrong, but I think they even calculate SSI by what you had made in the past. Ex's SSI is about 800.00 per month. Can he live on that? Sure he can. He had me to support him, now he has his GF to do it. He withheld the babys checks from me for 10 months during our divorce. He was ordered over and over to give them to me. Until I had the order on paper I couldnt go to SSI to make myself the payee of my minor child. When I did, the SSI officer wanted to know if I wanted to go after him for the 10 checks. I declined. One thing he will have to deal with though, is when they send him the papers to see what the money was spent on, he will have to be audited. They flagged his account. They have the documents to show the 10 checks. Ah well, one good thing about SSI, if he goes to jail, the baby will still get his check. If the ex becomes deceased, the baby will then get survivors benefits, which would be more than what he is getting now. Am I looking forward to him passing away? Nope, just showing how the SSI works. Blessings, Onyx
[quote] It costs no more to raise the child of a doctor than it does to raise the child of a janitor. [/quote]
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"Don't Make Me Get My Flying Monkeys"
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almostheaven
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Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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They won't send their child to the public school the next county over because all the kids in their neighborhood go to the high priced private school. It won't cost a pound of hamburger to feed their kids because their cook only stocks the freezer with the best choice cuts of beef. It won't cost $20 to the neighbor girl to watch the kids while they go out for a night, because they have a live-in nanny.
And that's not all for the kids, it's for appearances. They live the life because ::gasp:: what would the neighbors think if they dared to send their kids to public school? They don't live in a neighborhood conducive to a basic to poverty lifestyle. They live in a neighborhood that demands a certain level of living. They chose that neighborhood NOT for their kids for the most part, but for the entire family, for their lifestyle. They chose that neighborhood because they are a doctor and it's expected of them...from their colleagues, from their patients, from their business associates.
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Char Fox
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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Sorry mate...but that is a pretty naive statement "It costs no more to raise the child of a doctor than it does to raise the child of a janitor." C/S takes into account basic needs..such as a roof over their head..utilities..food ..etc. This is exactly the problem with a lot of divorced fathers attitudes. While they were married could afford to live in a 500k home..which of course the utilites are much higher..and they are not eating beans and franks every night. Now they are divorced..they expect to continue to be able to afford that 500k house..saying all I have to pay for is a childs needs..a roof..etc. So get the cheapest place you can...and I will support this. When married they wanted the child to attend sports at the country club..now they are divorced..take the kid to the WMCA. Sorry.. courts dont see this and they shouldnt. You had this child..and this child has a right to expect very close to the same standard of living had your wife and you stayed married. It is the most recent study..and if flawed at all the numbers are lower then the cost today... You will jump on these sites...but blindly follow other information that has never been verified by a non partisan group. The fact is mate you are looking for something to validate your feelings. Then I suggest you just make up your own. They have the same merit. I am amazed that the same men here...gryph exluded...that say didnt want their wifes to work as they feel the mother needed to stay home...now think the ex should get off her bloody arse and get a job. The men here that think it is so cheap to raise a child clearly have no idea as they really didnt raise this child. Oh yeah..they put their check in the account but when it came to buying the wee ones what they needed but it was the wife who did the shopping, the cooking...the trips to the doctor.. etc....so you had no clue what it costs. THIS is part of the reason men have a harder time at getting custody. Recent case here..father sues for custody..daughter has a medical condition...he has no idea what it is ..what her medicine costs..what size clothes she wears.. oh yeah ..I have heard the arguement.. but he can learn.. my hell..this is his child.. shouldnt have to LEARN. IS it harder for us to prove we are the better parent..yes...as in most cases for the reasons I outlined..fact is we havent been. Yet these same men see no problem with the fact that women in the work force have to work twice as hard to prove themselves..and yet the reasons are basically the same..they havent done it before. The men say women just want to be taken care of the rest of their lives...but of course no man here is going to admit..that hey..we are on the market again..need the almighty dollar to have a nice flat..nice car..and be able to afford to date. If you wanted the same lifestyle you had before you got married.. then should have stayed married. As to the poor ones that cant afford child support.. I say bugger off...next time keep your bloomin underdaks on..
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gr8Dad
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You have a guy, a doctor, his wife cheats on him, they file for divorce, she gets custody, and now he is FORCED to maintain HER standard of living, under the guise of maintaining the CHILDREN'S stabdard of living. So Mom, the one that cheated and broke up the marriage, now gets to live in a 500K house. Why is she being rewarded? Because she had an affair.
Child support cover HALF of the BASIC costs.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posts: 30386
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Are you SURE you are male? Just curious, cause you have a REALLY warped sense of our gender. It is NOT the responsibility of the ex husband to keep Mom and the kids at a level they were at BEFORE the divorce. I agree with the fact that a person who makes more money WOULD want to spend it on the child. But THEY would like to spend it in a manner that THEY want to on the child, NOT transfer it to Mom so SHE can decide how to spend it.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Grace
addict
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 404
Loc: KY
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While I agree with you to a point. . . the trouble is that not ALL men, who make more money, WANT to spend it on their children. Yes, there are so many good dads that are getting shafted on this. . . But, life isn't fair. Unfortunately, there have been enough bad/tight/thoughtless/strapped for time/it's not my job fathers that have soured this for everyone else.
And, you're right. . . no-fault divorce is unfair, as it was in mine. But, I have yet to meet a parent that can afford to maintain a lifestyle in a 500k home on CS alone.
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Dyslexic agnostics don't believe in Dog.
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gr8Dad
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...is that a MAJORITY o fathers pay their support ON TIME and IN FULL. Yet, DESPITE that fact, the rules and laws and enforcement techniques are based on a MINORITY.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Grace
addict
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 404
Loc: KY
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Yes, but how many of the fathers paying their support in full and on time are simply doing this to avoid jail and not to give their children all possible?
What would be interesting to see, is how many fathers or mothers pay support to their children without a court order. If you happen to know of any repots on that, I would like to read it, really I would, I'm not being sarcastic.
I know that my husband left me and our 3-year-old with $4.00 and until a court oder was issued, he didn't give us one more cent. When he paid CS directly to me, he got behind by almost $6000 at one time and threatened me with everything he could to keep me from reporting it. Now that it goes through the state, he pays on time and in full every week. I have the sneaking suspicion that he isn't doing that for the benefit of our child.
His problem is the same as many others. . . he doesn't see his CS payments as money going to his child. He sees them as money going to me. . . and he despises that. He believes that I should be able to care for our son on my income. Maybe that's true, but it isn't just my responsibility to provide for our child.
Please believe that I do know not all dads see things the way he does. But, if the laws and enforcements were different, how many children would do without? And, would these great dads supporting their children still be the majority?
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Dyslexic agnostics don't believe in Dog.
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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automatically you start yelling that the woman had the affair..its always against the woman gr8dad...and its not a guise but what the mens movement is calling it as a way to cover their cheap asses..as to what broke the marriage up..get over it....its spilled milk..water under the bridge as they say.. this is now about the children. And again ...child support does not cover HALF...and it was never meant to.. child support is figured on percentages.. using your theory then a woman with custody making 80k a year...would be able to expect her ex making 30k a year to match it.. thats not how it works. It works very much like your tax system. Its based on percentages. I know mate..tell me what language I need to say this in..ENGLISH appears not to be working here.
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gr8Dad
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But it would have to take into account the increased expenses during the first few months of the NCP setting up a home.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
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It was a HYPOTHETICAL. And it was a PERFECT example as to how the no fault divorce system screws the innocent person.
In my situation, my ex cheated on me, and I was GRANTED a faulted divorce, and STILL had to pay her Temporary Spousal Support.
So, I PLANNED on my marriage lasting forever, and made all financial plans based on THAT, yet she cheated and she got PAID for it. Please explain how that is fair in the LEAST?
It is the same for women. If the man cheats, he SHOULD have to pay more for his part in breaking up the marriage.
As for the whole "water under the bridge", the whole "no fault" divorce thing is BASED on taking away PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for one's actions and it is WRONG.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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Yes mate..I am sure I am male.. the question I have for you? are you a medical doctor.. no didnt think so.. so your comment that I have a warped sense of our gender is nothing more then a personal attack.. and when did you become the bloody expert on what OUR gender is..I hate stereotypes..are you appear to be one of the walking wounded. NOT THE EX HUSBAND MATE..the EX.. you are the one that keeps putting this into the male/female issue. This is going to come as a shock to that Neanderthal mind of yours..but there are women out there paying child support and some ..large sums. Are they the majority ..of course not.. but then neither is their income levels. And you sir...and the ones like you.. make me ashamed of my sex at times.
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gr8Dad
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You have bought into the whole "women are victims" scheme that some on society have tried to play. While I believe in EQUALITY. Unfortunately, I believe in TRUE equality, not special treatment for one section of our society.
You wanna make the same as a man, then do the same work as a man, and don't take off days cause the kids are sick, and don't take of days cause it's "that time of the month", and don't ask for maternity leave unles you are willing to give a MAN maternity leave to spend a few weeks with their newborn.
Don't force men to register for the draft, and then insist that you should be allowed in combat. Don't insist that you be allowed to have a certain job, and then complain when the physical standards are too high, and ask that they be lowered cause you are a woman.
While I do not always agree with Eric, one of his statements are dead on. Equality is NOT a hard concept.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19893
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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You have bought into the whole "women are victims" scheme that some on society have tried to play.
---> And you have OBVIOUSLY "bought" into the whole "men have been victimized by the feminist movement and it's all THEIR fault" BULLSHIT!
You wanna make the same as a man, then do the same work as a man, and don't take off days cause the kids are sick, and don't take of days cause it's "that time of the month", and don't ask for maternity leave unles you are willing to give a MAN maternity leave to spend a few weeks with their newborn.
---> You've said some pretty asinine things before, but this and the next statement is the MOST asinine, not too mention just freaking STUPID that you've come up with so far!
---> Let's start with the sick kids. Who is going to take care of them if both parents are "equal"? I can't speak for ALL couples, but there were TWO reasons why I (MOM) stayed home: The first was financial in that I often made $3 to $5 an hour LESS than my husband, so it made more SENSE for us to lose $80, than to lose $120. The second was the fact that he just plain didn't want to deal with a sick child; after all, cleaning up puke was a WOMAN'S "job".
---> About "periods"...so what you're telling me is that it really doesn't hurt to get smacked in the balls; in fact, it actually tickles and what you're REALLY doing when you're curled up in fetal position making those little squeaky noises is laughing. That sicky green color, followed by the bloated dead fish-belly color, the sweat drenching your body...it is just make-believe. Imagine getting kicked in the balls EVERY month...for some women, that is what their "period" is like.
---> As for Maternity leave...where have you been? Men have been getting Maternity leave for geez what...twenty plus years now. AND it's the same amount that women get...twelve weeks.
Don't force men to register for the draft, and then insist that you should be allowed in combat.
---> So exactly HOW do you figure that women are responsible for the "draft" and that "WE" (women) force men to register?
Don't insist that you be allowed to have a certain job, and then complain when the physical standards are too high, and ask that they be lowered cause you are a woman.
---> So far, this is the ONLY thing I agree with and why I dislike “Affirmative Action”.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30386
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...to refuse MEN certain rights (such as a say in abortion, time off for "female troubles" etc) based on the fact that they cannot get pregnant.
But when MEN want more rights (such as women not holding certain jobs because of physical requirements) they can't have them because women demand equality?
Sounds like a double standard.
As for the draft thing, why isn't NOW fighting to have women included?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Melody
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
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since the general concept is to maintain the child's standard of living prior to the divorce...and if Mom gets to enjoy this standard of living, the courts don't seem to have a problem with it.
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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First off great post Gecko. For you Gr8Dad Do not confuse equality in issues with equality in the sexes...the fact is we are different. How many companies allow time off for hunting season ..do you honestly believe these rules were made with women in mind. Lets look at your first issue..abortion..no you're right mate..dont let her have time off for this just because some bloke said baby if you love me ..you'll sleep with me..then when she gets pregnant ..says wait a minute.. not my problem. Want total equality mate.. then why arent you on the bloody pill? What you are saying is you want it equal...as long as it is equal for you...you have your own form of affirmative action..which I dont like. You want the job..you should have it because you are the best qualified... I dont care if you are male, female, black or white or a bloody boomer. You want the job of being a father..then be one when your married...which sorry most men aren't..dont start screaming how good you are at a job you have hardly done when the marriage is over. Are there fathers just as involved with the wee ones as the mothers...yes ..but thats not the norm. And no one here is going to believe it is except Sir Eric.. and you are barking up the wrong tree here. Stop blaming women for all your woes...the fact is Affirmative Action...the draft and the Court systems are run primarily by men. Again you go right for the women...why arent women trying to get NOW to have women included in the draft..where have you been..there is no draft. And if you are so bloody concerned about this then write your bloody Congressman. Well, now I know why you are so angry agaianst women as your wife cheated on you...we all have are stories mate. No, you shouldnt have had to pay her spousal support if this in fact was the reason for the break up of your marriage. But ask yourself 2 questions. First off...the judge that decided to give this to her..was it a woman. If not.. then hush . Secondly..the reason most states have gone to a no fault divorce...is so that people cant use such things as an affair to get more in a divorce as most judges are now realizing that most...not all..marriages were over long before the affair started. Do men get screwed in a divorce...of course they do..but so do women. I dont take either side...I look at each case, I just get sick and tired of all the women bashing that goes on here. Some of them men on this board have reached equality...you've learned to bitch and whine just like you accuse them of doing.
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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Now this is funny....talking about having it both ways.."But it would have to take into account the increased expenses during the first few months of the NCP setting up a home." Every man I have ever heard say this..will also say they paid for EVERYTHING when they were married.. so what increased expenses.. oh support...you mean that thing they werent doing when they were married,,,
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30386
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Have to put up first and last months rent, get furniture, have utilities turned on, etc. You know the USUAL expenses of creating a home.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30386
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"For you Gr8Dad Do not confuse equality in issues with equality in the sexes...the fact is we are different."
Then why are those differences not brought up when it would BENEFIT the male?
"How many companies allow time off for hunting season ..do you honestly believe these rules were made with women in mind."
Never heard of a single company to do this. Of course, if you have VACATION time, and use that time during hunting season, that is the same as using it any other time of the year.
"Lets look at your first issue..abortion..no you're right mate..dont let her have time off for this just because some bloke said baby if you love me ..you'll sleep with me..then when she gets pregnant ..says wait a minute.. not my problem."
First, and foremost, short of a rape situation, the woman AGREED to sex and is JUST as responsible for the child as the father. My meaning with the abortion thing is that a woman can relinquish her responsibility to the child anytime she wants, awhile a man has NO reproductive rights at all.
"Want total equality mate.. then why arent you on the bloody pill?"
Well, that MIGHT have something to do with the fact that there is no pill for men. But I do believe that birth control is the responsibility of BOTH parties.
"You want the job of being a father..then be one when your married...which sorry most men aren't..dont start screaming how good you are at a job you have hardly done when the marriage is over."
Define "parenting"? Is the person who changes the diaper the parent, or the person who earns the money to BUY the diaper? Is the person who cooks dinner the parent or the one that pays for the food? Two different jobs, but BOTH required to raise a child. What I am saying is DON'T penalize the father because he worked, so he couldn't be home with the children.
"Are there fathers just as involved with the wee ones as the mothers...yes ..but thats not the norm."
And WHAT do you base that on?
"Stop blaming women for all your woes...the fact is Affirmative Action...the draft and the Court systems are run primarily by men. Again you go right for the women...why arent women trying to get NOW to have women included in the draft..where have you been..there is no draft."
Well, here in the US, males between the ages of 18 and 27 are still required to REGISTER for the draft. But not women, go figure.
"And if you are so bloody concerned about this then write your bloody Congressman."
I do, regularly.
"Well, now I know why you are so angry agaianst women as your wife cheated on you...we all have are stories mate."
I am not angry against WOMEN because of this, I am angry against a system that allowed her to PROFIT from this, all in the NAME of "The best interest of the children..." It has NOTHING to do with the best interest of the children, but if they put THAt name tag on it, anyone who agrues against it can be labeled as "against children" and their opinion dismissed.
"No, you shouldnt have had to pay her spousal support if this in fact was the reason for the break up of your marriage. But ask yourself 2 questions. First off...the judge that decided to give this to her..was it a woman."
Yes, it WAS a woman judge.
"Secondly..the reason most states have gone to a no fault divorce...is so that people cant use such things as an affair to get more in a divorce as most judges are now realizing that most...not all..marriages were over long before the affair started."
Well, if you are feeling unloved, you go to a MARRIAGE COUNSELOR, you do not visit the bed of another.
"Do men get screwed in a divorce...of course they do..but so do women."
But not NEARLY in the number that men do.
"I dont take either side...I look at each case, I just get sick and tired of all the women bashing that goes on here. Some of them men on this board have reached equality...you've learned to bitch and whine just like you accuse them of doing."
Well, why does the whole equality thing have to be a few men at a time? Why not revamp the laws so that we are all equal? And as for "woman bashing", how about the male bashing that is done everyday in the courts when more than a person's "honor" is removed, more like their entire family...and HOME...and possessions, and any shred of respect they had for themselves. Clearly the male bashing done by the courts is FAR worse than ANYTHING that could be done here.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Eric
old hand
Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 807
Loc: USA
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I admire your tenancity and patience with these cretins, Gr8Dad. I certainly could never express such latitude and steady perseverance with every one of the lies that they come back to you with, day after day.
Personally? I never post to reply to them. I only post the truth so that hopefully, others will see the problem(s), join FIRM and then with enough numbers, we will be able to change the system. They know this and that is why they attack my character and not the posts.
Well, obviously with the whoppers of lies now shown in 3 different groups of this main board, it is ridiculously easy to see the falsity of their accusations. For, if they were true, why would FIRM be the largest and most active web site in the ENTIRE WORLD (see Who we are page of FIRM for proof of this and our invitation for women to join us)?
For those that need confirmation of what Gr8Dad stated, know in your hearts that the feminazi PIGS (we got 4 major ones now) are lying, but don't know how to prove it and for those that want to make change so that your children will not have to endure this hell,
Come home...to FIRM,
Eric
Fathers' Integrity & Rights Movement (FIRM)
www.FIRMncp.com
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Equality is not a difficult concept
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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Eric you are such a bore. You come here hiding behind Gr8dad to try and give yourself legitimacy. No one here is buying it mate...and you wouldnt know the truth if it bit you in the arse. IF your firm site was so big ..you would have no need to feed us your dribble here. And if I am a feminazi pig because I wont follow your agenda then I wear it proudly. Much better then being a low life drunken wanger like you. The real reason you never respond to us Eric is you can only repeat the same dribble over and over again. YOu have nothing to add to this board. I dont always agree with Gr8dad but I do respect him. That is something you wont get here and suspect you have never received anywhere...the reason...you havent earned it.
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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Gr8dad I do agree with you that what a male offers his children should be taken into consideration but woman bashing isnt the answer nor is blaming our problems on them. Its like getting racked off at the convict that gets out of jail. Blame the system, change the system, and the fact is it is changing as 20 years ago it was damn near impossible for a male to get custody regardless of the circumstances. For those that say why should we have to wait..why did women have to wait. Men always got custody in the 1900s and it wasnt necessarily because they were better at it. Wifes were considered property back then as was a mans children. What we learned about your country in school is the americas first start out on an issue way to far in one direction and then go completely the opposite direction until they find a middle ground. Personally I think this is what happened here. IS it fair no...but neither was the prior way of doing things. This is why equality to me means looking at the individual case not some arbitrary rule. To your comment that you dont know of any company that gives time off for hunting, I know several and no they dont have to have vacation time. To the pill issue..some countries do have this. Yes you think that both sexes should be responsible for birth control and they should mate, but I would bet you would find many men dont agree here. Yes a woman can relinquish her responsibilites to a child any time she wants by doing this but how many men have relinquished their responsibilities and thats the reason she IS doing this. Being home with children doesnt make you the best parent either. There are men out there that are as good and as involved as the mother in their childrens lives. Getting them ready for bed, helping with homework, taking them to their games etc. Its quality time, not quantity. For fathers like that of course they should take into consideration all. What I am talking about is the men that did nothing but bring the pay home and think this makes them as good of a parent. It doesnt. To the draft issue, thats a system that needs to be changed but again these are men making these laws. And truth be told alot of men dont want women fighting along side of them. Your comment that if a woman is unhappy she should go to a marriage counselor instead of someone else bed. I couldnt agree more. And nothing will excuse this in my book by either party and there are women and wmen that will do this with little provocation but there are also the circumstances where she has discussed this...she is not happy...and she is married to one of the Erics of the world..male or female...who says..you're not happy.. get over it ..or you caused it. Affairs have little to do with sex. Again, I want equality, but thats not what the likes of Eric want...they want MEN...men are better...men are this..men are that..is that really any better then women are better..women are this...women are that..NO. What I want...look at my marriage..my children..my life.. and make your decisions based on that and only that. In my situation...my ex and I cared enough about each other and the children to work this all out between ourselves. The judge just signed the papers. WE didnt give our control up to the system. I know not everyone is this lucky. The fact is their our horror stories on both sides. And nbot all of this horro plays out in a courtroom. I know of men and women that on the surface of things...either would be a good parent. BUt the rubbish one was pulling on the other to try and position themselves in court..or trying to financially ruin the other.. or emotionally ruin the other...showed the judge their interest was not for the child but for themselves.
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Onyx
old hand
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 816
Loc: Buffalo NY
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Oy vey, why do you need to plug your sad ass site with EVERY post, if it is what you say it is.... if its so big and wonderful, why do you repeatedly BEG for people to go there? I would think that you wouldnt want the cretins there. ROFL. Ass.
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"Don't Make Me Get My Flying Monkeys"
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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(quote) They know this and that is why they attack my character and not the posts.(quote) my hell..roflmao ...how do you attack something that noone has ever gotten all the way through.. besides it would be like arguing with the National Enquirer or the STAR...why bother.. everyone knows what rubbish they are..
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Eric
old hand
Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 807
Loc: USA
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We already KNOW that you ARE member of FIRM.
I can't stop you from being a member. I can only stop idiotic posts from you and your type.
That's all folks! :)
Eric
www.FIRMncp.com
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Equality is not a difficult concept
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Grace
addict
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 404
Loc: KY
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Aussie, what a great post :)
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Dyslexic agnostics don't believe in Dog.
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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thought you didnt respond to our posts...roflmao...you cant tell the truth on anything, can you mate. So you delete the posts you dont like on FIRM eh...now I understand...you dont want a website with legitimate info..opinions..just Sir ERics opinions....my hell you are a control freak arent you now mate. And you have control of your own created web site...that nobody goes to. now thats something to write home to mum and dad isnt it.. roflmao
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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>>>>Personally? I never post to reply to them.
ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good one!
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Char Fox
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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.
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Char Fox
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Eric
old hand
Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 807
Loc: USA
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Am I replying to you or the masses?
Eric
www.FIRMncp.com
P.S.: Hint: See the www.FIRMncp.com with every post? LOL
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Equality is not a difficult concept
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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Strike two!
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Char Fox
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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the only mass you are responding to mate..is the malignant growth on your own arse
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19893
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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...to refuse MEN certain rights (such as a say in abortion, time off for "female troubles" etc) based on the fact that they cannot get pregnant.
---> Right. You’re not making any sense. Let’s say the local clinic is offering free prostate exams and even though I don’t have one (women don’t you know), I sue them because it’s a violation of my “rights” if the clinic refuses to exam me. Make a lot of sense doesn’t it?
---> And something else…I don’t know of ANY company that gives special “sick days” JUST for women. If I call in “sick” because I have started my “period” and have cramps, it’s NO different than if I call in “sick” because I eat some bad fish and have cramps.
But when MEN want more rights (such as women not holding certain jobs because of physical requirements) they can't have them because women demand equality?
---> Again, you’re not making any sense.
Sounds like a double standard.
---> ???
As for the draft thing, why isn't NOW fighting to have women included?
---> I believe they did, but the whole idea of women being “drafted” was overwhelming rejected in both the House and the Senate, not to mention by “society” which makes absolutely no sense women are now allowed in “combat”.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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Eric
old hand
Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 807
Loc: USA
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Go back to NOW...
You are being so stupid that even your own gender shuns you...
Good luck on your new "endeavors,"
Eric
www.FIRMncp.com
"We will bury you and your types..." Care to volunteer for an early demise?
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Equality is not a difficult concept
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19893
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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"We will bury you and your types..." Care to volunteer for an early demise?
---> So now you are threatening my life?
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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Eric
old hand
Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 807
Loc: USA
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I ask you a question and you ask me if I am threatening your life...
Silly woman...
Don't do this to your gender....
Even for you, it is beneath your supposed dignity...
But, you can go to hell if you so desire... :)
Eric
www.FIRMncp.com
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Equality is not a difficult concept
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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you didnt ask her a Q limpdick what you said was.."We will bury you and your types..." Care to volunteer for an early demise? That is a direct threat in my book...see the problem mate is we all speak english here...except you that is
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30386
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Using the English language, to ask someone if they would VOLUNTEER for something would indicate that they WILLINGLY agreed to it. And the word demise indicates a death by some type of natural causes. These two things alone take away any "threat".
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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Then I suggest you use the ENGLISH language...which would be Websters...demise means a cessation of existance or activity..it has nothing to do with NATURAL causes and his comment we will bury you is not a request for volunteers..
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19893
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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Sorry little man, but you're not going to get out of this one.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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Eric
old hand
Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 807
Loc: USA
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even for the PIGS of this site...
My comment was an "off take" of Kruschev in the 1950's.
Doesn't anybody know history anymore?
ooops...
Forget...
Of course you don't...
It's called "dumbing down" America...
Why can't ANYONE of you pass an 8th grad exam as administered in the 1800's?
Think about it...
Eric
www.FIRMncp.com
Methinks, we have been "burried" already...by the moronic responses...
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Equality is not a difficult concept
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19893
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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Demise: The end of existence or activity; termination.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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and when you took this test in the 1800s ..what was your score ..lol
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Eric
old hand
Reged: 05/30/04
Posts: 807
Loc: USA
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defend Eric?
He only espouses the same thing as you do, does he not?
Stop being "politically correct."
I liked you better that way...
Why would you care what "they" think? They are PIGS, after all...
Eric
www.FIRMncp.com
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Equality is not a difficult concept
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aussie928
old hand
Reged: 10/29/04
Posts: 969
Loc: Dallas
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think someone has a crush on you Gr8dad...lmao
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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.
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Char Fox
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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.
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Char Fox
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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Where's the count? Anyone keeping a tally?
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Char Fox
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Onyx
old hand
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 816
Loc: Buffalo NY
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Is this because of wage garnishment? Or because they are doing it of their own free will? My ex is now paying on time, only because I was made the payee of the baby's SSI suppliment that he gets because his Daddy is disabled. Prior to that, he was withholding the checks to try to smoke me out, and hurt me. It was only when he was forced to by SSI to switch me to payee, that he is on time. Have you considered that thought? Blessings, Onyx
[quote]...is that a MAJORITY o fathers pay their support ON TIME and IN FULL. Yet, DESPITE that fact, the rules and laws and enforcement techniques are based on a MINORITY. [/quote]
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"Don't Make Me Get My Flying Monkeys"
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Onyx
old hand
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 816
Loc: Buffalo NY
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Her own gender shuns her? Now, you are a bigger ass than I thought. Gecko has done more with one post on this site (and others) than you ever will in your entire life. How DARE you question who supports her. I FULLY support her, and if you look back, if you know how, she and I had a minor disagreement when I joined this board. We RESPECTFULLY ended the disagreement. Something you know nothing about. You are putting your OWN shortcomings on others. It is YOU that is shunned by your own gender Eric... of course the men who hate you dont even consider you a man, they think you to be a woman writing dribble to hurt the cause of the NC Father. Doing a bang up job there too, Erica. Moron. I am ashamed to call you a woman even. Plech.
[quote]Go back to NOW...
You are being so stupid that even your own gender shuns you...
Good luck on your new "endeavors,"
Eric
www.FIRMncp.com
"We will bury you and your types..." Care to volunteer for an early demise? [/quote]
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"Don't Make Me Get My Flying Monkeys"
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Onyx
old hand
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 816
Loc: Buffalo NY
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Again Erica, gr8dad is only "ok in your book" when he agrees with you? Some proper person YOU are. Now, that he is defending others.... and he CARES what others think... key word here, Erica, CARE... now you have no use for him? You are an idiot. Go back to NOW... oh wait, they probably tossed your ass too....no woman would act the way you do... now get back to the salon, girly-man, and get those eyebrows tweezed, the monobrow does nothing for you.
[quote]defend Eric?
He only espouses the same thing as you do, does he not?
Stop being "politically correct."
I liked you better that way...
Why would you care what "they" think? They are PIGS, after all...
Eric
www.FIRMncp.com [/quote]
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"Don't Make Me Get My Flying Monkeys"
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Onyx
old hand
Reged: 08/03/04
Posts: 816
Loc: Buffalo NY
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Please forward the offending post to DS, under contact us. Apparently, they need a certain number of complaints to boot him. If enough of us do it, Erica will be gone. He threatened me with physical violence last month, and DS said they need more complaints on him. Step up to the plate people. If he offends you, threatens you, or anything of the sort, report him. While he is fun to toy with, he is wasting the resources we have here, and bandwidth. Blessings, Onyx
[quote]"We will bury you and your types..." Care to volunteer for an early demise?
---> So now you are threatening my life? [/quote]
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"Don't Make Me Get My Flying Monkeys"
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almostheaven
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
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A phrase that will live in infamy. LOL! Leave it to Arnold.
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Char Fox
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