helpforfreedom
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Reged: 03/19/09
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This is my situation. I have been married 30 yrs. STBX worked 25 years and took an early retirement (at52). Never discussed retiring with me, nor even told me after the retirement. I have worked on and off throughout the marriage. We have 2 grown kids. STBX is now collecting a pension and I am forced to work full time in order to keep up with mortgage and bills. I filed for divorce 2 months after STBX retired. I am entitled to half the pension as we were married the whole time STBX was paying into the pension. Problem is, now that I am working full time, I am being asked to pay spousal support. STBX retired as a full time employee, no restrictions. Now STBX is claiming to be disabled. STBX did have 2 neck surgeries for herniated disks but had been released back to work, no restrictions. STBX's retirement was totally voluntary and never filed for disability. Is it possible that I will have to work full time, while STBX sits at home, and I will have to pay half my salary to STBX? This was the recommendation from the judge at a pretrial. I am in an equitable, no fault state. Any opinions?
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PhoenixRising
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Loc: New York
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Half of your salary sounds a little high but you need to realize that spousal support is at the sole discretion of the judge.
You could find yourself a REALLY good attorney and pay thousands to fight this. However, my experience is that judges final orders tend to reflect their initial inclinations.
If the only reason you were seeking a divorce was to get out of paying the mortgage; and if you are going to have to pay it anyway; perhaps you should re-think the divorce.
Otherwise, it might behoove you to settle out-of-court w/ your stbx.
I have a good friend in California that is in the same position; she is going to have to stay married until she can retire. It might not be "fair" but it is the hand that you have been dealt.
Did you not consult an attorney before you started this process?
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Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. --Plato
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helpforfreedom
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I am divorcing him because he is a gambler, alcoholic and has forever hidden money and debt from me. Not at all a team player, just now learning how much I didn't know. I can't believe he can voluntarily quit working and I am expected to give him maintenance? So because I do not want to live at poverty level, (on half the pension), and choose to work, I will be punished? I can't understand this system. He is a loafer and planning on working the system. Is there anything I can do? I want to buy him out of the house and keep working, but if I have to support him also, I will lose everything. There is no coming to an agreement with STBX. He did not want the divorce and will be happy to see me lose everything. I did discuss this with an attorney, but at the time, I was working part time and have since gotten a better job. I had no idea that working would be detrimental to me.
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finz
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He's taking his turn at working on and off
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PhoenixRising
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Loc: New York
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"Is there anything I can do?"
It is the way the current system is set up. My gf in California is 15yrs younger than her husband. He chose early retirement. She is the major breadearner. Whether she divorces him or not; she is now stuck w/ supporting him for the next 20yrs - 25yrs.
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Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. --Plato
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helpforfreedom
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That's the thing. He was the breadwinner. I worked most of the marriage but never made as much money as he did. He retired and cut his income in half. I had lost my job and was working for cash money at the time, until I found a good job. If I had not worked, we would have lost our house and not been able to pay bills. I can't believe the horror stories I am hearing about divorce. None of this makes any sense at all. All I am asking for is half the pension and to buy him out of the house. He keeps his bills and I keep mine. I was pretty much told from the beginning that half the assets, (pension & equity) are what I am entitled to. I don't understand why I have to fight for everything that is rightfully mine. Maintenance should not even be a factor. He chooses to stay home and live on the pension. I choose to work. Why that equates to paying him maintenance is beyond me. I would hope I will not have to pay for the next 20 yrs like your friend. I still can't give up hope that this won't happen. We are going to prove dissipation and maybe the judge will start looking at it differently. I pray.
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gr8Dad
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...if you are entitled to half HIS income, why wouldn't he be entitled to SOME of YOUR income? Doesn't that seem kinda one sided?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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helpforfreedom
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I don't think it is one sided at all. He is living off of the money put away during the marriage for retirement. That is a marital assest that is supposed to be split equally/equitably, not his income. I did not have the luxury of having a career and saving a pension. I had to work off hours around his job, raise 2 kids and take care of the house. I did have one job for 6 years and had a pension started, but the company was sold and I lost my job. My STBX made me take the money out of the IRA to help pay bills while I was looking for another job. So now, after 30 years of working any job I could, he lives off the money put away for OUR retirement and I continue to work full time and pay him maintenance. I'm sorry, I just don't see that as fair. It does seem however, like the courts are going to agree with you.
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helpforfreedom
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Well the latest update is that he went to a doctor, shows a herniated disk in his neck and doctor is saying he can't work. Not sure if this is permanent, just heard the bragging from STBX, reminding me, this is what I wanted and I will end up with nothing and I will have to support him. Am I really destined to pay him maintenance? If he is showing a disability, will I have to pay till one of us dies? This divorce has been going on for 18 months and this is the first time he has gone to a doctor about any disability. Anyone have any suggestions, or is this considered fair and is inevitable? Please can anyone offer any hope at all? Will I ever be able to free myself from this parasite?
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PhoenixRising
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Loc: New York
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Your judge has already let you know which way he is leaning on the spousal support issue and that was before it turned out that your stbx is no longer voluntarily unemployed; he is disabled from a condition that occurred before the divorce (he had 2 previous neck surgeries).
It comes down to who is going to support him? Your state is broke. Your elected officials passed laws which make you responsible for him.
With a REALLY good (meaning expensive) lawyer could you fight this and win. Yeah, if your judge was having a good hair day, maybe.
My divorce cost $250k. We didn't have that kind of money. We will be paying off attorneys for the rest of our lives.
My Ex was the kind of person that would rather give twice as much to the lawyers if there was a chance he wouldn't have to give anything to me. He lost on all counts.
You might want to seriously think of coming to some sort of compromise with your stbx.
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Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. --Plato
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javajunkiee
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Reged: 06/01/08
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Loc: SC
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Your situation is not unusual at all if you just switch the references to gender in your post. Women who are disabled and in a long term marriage can end up receiving lifetime alimony. You may want to to give up some of that equity in lieu of alimony payments.
Also, if your state considers his income when making the alimony calculation, ask that you receive a reduction or credit if he starts getting disability checks from the govt. It will be up to you to keep informed as to when that happens.
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Marriage doesn't come with a money-back guarantee.
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1966Gal
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He's collecting a pension so you won't have to pay him 1/2 of your income. It will be close to 1/2 of your combined incomes. You are entitled to 1/2 of all joint, marital assets, which would include his pension after you retire or a lump sum now.
You are able-bodied...with no young kids at home. You SHOULD be working full-time. He now has a documented medical condition that prevents him from working. If I were you, I'd be more worried about getting 1/2 of his pension when you reach retirement age.
You need a good lawyer.
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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.
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Yes_Dad
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Reged: 08/23/08
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[quote]...if you are entitled to half HIS income, why wouldn't he be entitled to SOME of YOUR income? Doesn't that seem kinda one sided? [/quote]
Exactly...
I lovr how it's a fine and dandy when a woman is asking for it but when a man does, he suddenly becomes a "bum"
A LOT of men live in poverty because of high alimony payments to their wives and no one cares.
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Yes_Dad
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[quote]Well the latest update is that he went to a doctor, shows a herniated disk in his neck and doctor is saying he can't work. Not sure if this is permanent, just heard the bragging from STBX, reminding me, this is what I wanted and I will end up with nothing and I will have to support him. Am I really destined to pay him maintenance? If he is showing a disability, will I have to pay till one of us dies? This divorce has been going on for 18 months and this is the first time he has gone to a doctor about any disability. Anyone have any suggestions, or is this considered fair and is inevitable? Please can anyone offer any hope at all? Will I ever be able to free myself from this parasite? [/quote]
If his doctor says he can't work, he needs to apply for SSDI. He's only 52, so I would come back with that. You aren't disabled until the government says you are. You can find a doctor who will say anything for enough money. He needs to go through the Social Security gauntlet before he marches into court and declares himself disabled.
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helpforfreedom
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I am glad to see someone that sees my side of it. I don't think this is gender related at all. The fact is, he doesn't want to work, hid and spent money, ran up credit cards without my knowledge or signature, retired without telling or even discussing it with me. Now he is claiming disability. We are waiting on medical records from a doctor stating his disability. If he does find a doctor to say he can't work, I do want him to apply for social security disability as I do not think he will qualify. Biggest problem with that is it will delay the divorce for months or longer. It will be a very bitter pill to swallow if I end up paying him maintenance. If our marriage would have been a business, he would be in jail for embezzlement and fraud. There are parasites in both genders. I made the mistake of marrying and staying married to one that happens to be male. There is no justice in a no fault state. I disagree that fault or character should not be taken into consideration but that is just my humble opinion.
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finz
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YD wasn't agreeing with you. He is just saying that your stbx isn't disabled until Social Security says he is. Most knowledgable people will be unsympatheitic.......your stbx supported you for years and now it is your turn.
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helpforfreedom
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It is unsympathetic, and most knowledgeable people would know that. Also, my stbx did not support me for years. You sound bitter and maybe you got a bad deal. Sorry if you did. I still believe it is not gender related. The man is not always right and neither is the woman.
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finz
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Your first post says that you worked on and off for years.....Did you make such a great salary that you banked thousands and lived off that while you were not working ? Were you drawing off a trust fund ? Where did the money come from if not from your husband ? If you worked as much as him, why do you not have an equal retirement/pension ?
Absolutely neither gender is always in the right or wrong. That hasn't been the debate here.
Just because someone disagrees with you (again, as most knowledgable people will in this case as it has been presented) does not mean they are bitter.
I am here to educate myself about the divorce process. Experienced posters here have said repeatedly that a spouse who becomes disabled during the course of the marriage is usually awarded a disproportionate amount of the marital assets and/or lengthy spousal support. I have not looked up individual cases to confirm this. Have you ? It would seem rather pertinent to your case
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helpforfreedom
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I worked on and off, mostly on. I worked around his job, as I believed we were a team and his job was more important. My main job was the children and the house. I did have 2 children during the marriage. While working evenings, nights or weekends, a couple companies were sold or cut back and I lost my job. At those times I was collecting unemployment. I also did have a pension started at a company that was sold and my stbx wanted that cashed in because I was not working and he said we needed the money until I found another job.
I too am trying to educate myself about the divorce process. I understand about the disabled spouse but my stbx is not disabled. He is trying to claim he is disabled and may have found 1 doctor to say he can not work. We have not seen the medical records supporting this yet. I was happy to read from YD that this would not be enough to be considered disabled and I could ask that he apply for SSDI. I am continually researching any information I can find on this issue. I would certainly appreciate any leads on good websites to research case studies. My divorce is on going and can change from day to day with the information given. I am just trying to keep up or be ready to block the next kick in the stomach. Thanks for any help given.
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gr8Dad
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...your status as "team member" entitles YOU to a portion of HIS retirement income, yet as the MAJORITY PROVIDER for TWENTY FIVE YEARS, you don't think you owe HIM anything? Why is that? Why do YOU get to benefit from HIS work, but as a TEAM, he shouldn't benefit from YOURS?
I said it before, I'll say it again, they were NOT kidding when they said if you want to see alimony ended, start making WOMEN pay it.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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helpforfreedom
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So is your idea of fair, after a 30 year marriage, I work full time and he just collects the pension? Even tho I worked either full or part time for probably 27 years and took care of the house and children? Now at 55, I can start a pension for myself, while he has been retired for 2 years at 53 for his 25 years of service? While we were a team he benefited from my efforts as well. Thanks for your help.
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Avaya
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Loc: Arkansas
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But if he WERE working now, you'd be entitled to spousal support and I'd be willing to bet that you wouldn't complain about that. Here he is, a man who doesn't WANT the divorce, and he'd STILL have to pay you if he had a job.
Think of your paying spousal support as reimbursement for all the years he supported you while you didn't work.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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helpforfreedom
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I only want half the pension as I have none and now at 55 have very little chance of earning one. I would love for him to be working and no, I would not want one penny of it. I am quite capable of working, (as he is), and plan to do so until I am no longer able to work. Our children are grown and there would be no reason for him to pay me spousal support. Again, he did not support me for years. I worked as much or more than he ever did, and I am still working while he is living off money put away during the marriage for OUR pension.
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Avaya
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Thru all of these postings, I see no reason for you not to still get half of his pension. Are you thinking that you wont still get that?
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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helpforfreedom
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It looks like I will get half the pension but the judge is going on the assumption that he is disabled and recommending that I pay him maintenance in order to equal our income. He will have to prove he is unable to work in order to get the maintenance. I am not sure how far he can/will take it as I know he is running out of money for his high priced lawyer. Maybe that will work in my favor. We have plenty of proof that he is capable of doing anything he wishes to do with no disability. Whether any of it will stand up in court against a doctor that may be willing to say he is unable to work, I am not sure. I can only hope that the truth will hold up. I have been fair and have nothing to hide. He will never be able to say that.
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Yes_Dad
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I am justing saying if you Dr. shop enough, you can find one who will sign anything as far as an illness, especially something like a back problem, exist. To ne "legally" disabled, SSA has to be the one who deems that, You can use what the doctor says to support your case, but usually, the send you for a CE (consultative examine) which is one of their low paid over worked doctors. SS1 is easy to get. SSDI is a whole nother basket of apples.
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finz
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If you have plenty of proof that he is not disabled, show it to the judge
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Slave2x
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Social Security can only deem you disabled IF you
QUILIFY for SS disability. If you are not eligible then you have to accept a DOCTORs word for it.
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Yes_Dad
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[quote]Social Security can only deem you disabled IF you
QUILIFY for SS disability. If you are not eligible then you have to accept a DOCTORs word for it. [/quote]
Who does? A judge? No he doesn't.
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Slave2x
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If you don't qualify for disability because you don't have enough work credits, then how are you supposed to get qualified as disabled?
I don't have enough work credits, as I have been disabled a long time and unable to work.
So I don't qualifty for S.S., what other forms of proof would be acceptable to a judge?
I have a disability placard for my atuo, my doctor filled out nessesary paper work, is that acceptable?
Edited by Slave2x (03/29/09 10:38 AM)
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Tweeby
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SSDI is if you have enough work credits. SSI is for those who do not have enough work credits.
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Slave2x
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SSI IF you qualify for it, you have to make under a certain amount of money and not have any assest if i'm correct.
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Yes_Dad
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[quote]If you don't qualify for disability because you don't have enough work credits, then how are you supposed to get qualified as disabled?
---> It's called SSI
I don't have enough work credits, as I have been disabled a long time and unable to work.
---->It is SSI
So I don't qualifty for S.S., what other forms of proof would be acceptable to a judge?
I have a disability placard for my atuo, my doctor filled out nessesary paper work, is that acceptable? [/quote]
--No
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Tweeby
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Well if your so disabled that you can't work you have SSI. If your working than your not that disabled.
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finz
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So we are all talking about the same thing.....
Social Security is given when you are over 65 and worked your quarters paid from soc sec tax)
SSDI is given when you are disabled and have worked your quarters (paid from soc sec tax )
SSI is given when you are over 65, blind, or disabled and have little or no income (paid from regular taxes)
Slave...if you don't qualify for SSDI, it's because you never worked your quarters or have not been disabled by the government. If you haven't worked in years because of your disability....you should have applied within a few years of the onset of your disability
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Yes_Dad
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[quote]So we are all talking about the same thing.....
Social Security is given when you are over 65 and worked your quarters paid from soc sec tax)
SSDI is given when you are disabled and have worked your quarters (paid from soc sec tax )
SSI is given when you are over 65, blind, or disabled and have little or no income (paid from regular taxes)
Slave...if you don't qualify for SSDI, it's because you never worked your quarters or have not been disabled by the government. If you haven't worked in years because of your disability....you should have applied within a few years of the onset of your disability [/quote]
She should have applied immediately if it was a bad problem. In reality, SSI is plain out welfare. The definitions of disability are easier to meet. SSI is also a co-program meaning both the state and federal government are involved where in SSDI only the federal government is for the most part involved. Also, if you are on SSI, you qualify for almost every state program there is, where that is not true for SSDI. Net net it's almost better to be on SSI than SSDI because of the benefits you receive in conjunction with the state.
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Yes_Dad
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[quote]Well if your so disabled that you can't work you have SSI. If your working than your not that disabled. [/quote]
They can work and make up to something like $950 a month or something like that (which I think is wrong. If you are disabled, you are. End of story).
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