WinterSunLover
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Reged: 10/09/09
Posts: 4
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Hi all, thanks for your many bits of advice on an earlier question I had. I have a new Q that I think is a whole different topic: I just read something that sounds as if in California, a man can very likely get spousal support cut way way down, even to zero, after he formally retires:
[censored]://hemetdivorce.blogspot.com/2008/10/spousal-support-after-retirement.html
This seems HUGE and wonderful. Since for a guy the nightmare scenario is spending old age having your money drained forever by the remorseless wheels of marriage law.
For me personally at 48 years old, with 2 kids age 9 and 7, this suggests the following is plausible: Stick it out for the kids for another 11 years, love and support them and make them wise strong adults. Then I'm 59. Pull the plug on the spouse, as diplomatically as possible (Geneva Convention thinking, avoid unnecessary suffering). So, she might get 6 years Spousal Support if she's become a complete parasite by that time (I hope to nudge her to have her own solid income by then of course).
If this retirement thing is true, I think this would work well. 6 years is not forever, and it's also a pretty decent interval for a woman to get her s--t. together. So I think I could with good conscience say, hey, you've got a medical degree, you have brains, even Starbucks pays a living wage if you have the house (which I'd be fine with just giving her). If she can't be self-supporting in 6 years, then c'est la vie.
Anyone have experience with the retirement-ends-alimony ruling?
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Miranda
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
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Why would you want to stay in a miserable marriage just to save some money? Money would never hold me hostage.
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
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WinterSunLover
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Reged: 10/09/09
Posts: 4
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Regarding "why stay", I should have mentioned I travel a lot (and enjoy it) so I'm away from home at least 50% of the time. What I'm finding is that this works pretty well, I enjoy having my own time (I don't mind the hotel lifestyle, especially now that almost all have pools and gyms, and exploring different towns is always kind of fun). When I'm back I focus on time with the kids, and the wife is just sort of a background annoyance that I have acquired a tolerance for (like a neighbor's dog that won't stop barking). So I'm thinking, I'm a happy road warrior for work, I enjoy time with the kids and they adore me, and then once the kids are grown, I can part ways as diplomatically as possible with the wife, and it seems as if it should work out. Part of the appeal for me is I honestly prefer minimal "stuff" in my life. So if someone says Gee, you won't have a boat when you retire, your only recreation will be walking in a city park, my response is "perfect!". But having marriage out of my life is definitely something I'll need for longterm happiness. I hadn't realized how valuable freedom was until I lost it.
Sorry for the philosophy, but hopefully that frames things better!
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30197
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If you do not make life decisions in regards, to some degree, to money, you have NEVER been in the position of looking at living paycheck to paycheck so you can PAY someone who you had the UNMITIGATED gall to SOLELY support for years. It is quite dismal, and you reconsider what you can live with.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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finz
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Reged: 06/17/08
Posts: 6458
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How are you going to convince her to get out and get a job now when you are counting on her to be home with the kids when you are out galavanting ?
She should be working now....I'm not saying that you should pay her alimony forever or not get to retire, but I think there are some flaws in your plan.
The link talks about a man who was married for 15 years over a decade before planning his retirement.
You will be married for 24 years when you plan to ditch her with her being out of the workplace for that long. Although she could reactivate her license fairly quickly, it might take her a little time to find someone willing to pay her the big bucks after not practicing for a quarter of a century. Then you've left her only 5 years to save for her own retirement because you want to keep up the free babysitter as long as possible. I just think that kind of sucks.
I think you should be working with her on figuring out a plan together now. What kind of schedule could she work now to get back into medicine and still manage the kids if you are gone for extended periods. Do you have local family who could help ? Are you both willing to hire a babysitter/nanny to help manage the kids' schedules ?
Another comment on the link you cited and a question I'm adding for the group.....it sounded like that guy was only getting social security retirement. Will you have other retirement income from a 401K, etc ? How much will your actual income go down ? Your wife's 1/2 of that will be a bigger chuck 11 years from now than it would be now. Who would pay for your last kid to get through college ? The man in the link.....if his ex was also over 65, she could collect on his social security too, but it didn't sound like she was.....Do the courts look at how close the ex is to retirement age too ? How does that affect all retired social security receiving divorced spouses ? Shouldn't the alimony amount go down to reflect when the alimony receiving spouse also starts collecting social security under the ex spouse's benefit ?
Obviously, I don't know how this all works either....hence why I am reading here, but I did want to comment on your first thread sounded like you were (legitimately) concerned about how not to get screwed by the whole divorce/spousal support issue and this thread sounds like you've had an attitude shift to plotting how you can purposefully screw her.
It just sounds like you could both end up with more money post marriage if you could be upfront about things now and plan together.
Then again.....if my husband and I could work that well as a team, I probably wouldn't be fantasizing about a divorce........
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spinnerdegrassi
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Reged: 08/20/06
Posts: 7947
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I still think you need to leave her now. The longer you wait, the longer you might get stuck with long term alimony. If you leave now, there's no reason she can't go right back into her career as an MD. With the $$$ she'll make as an MD and what you make, hiring a live in Nanny split between the 2 of you is plausible.
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WinterSunLover
recently joined
Reged: 10/09/09
Posts: 4
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I'm hoping to be informed when I talk to an attorney, to better understand my options. Man, there is so much to know about undoing life's biggest mistake! I also plan on reading the Nolo press book for a CA divorce, that seems to be required reading by all accounts. The overall themes I've picked up so far in Googling are that retirement is (hallelujah!) a valid means to end the suffering of marriage laws. The other consistent theme I pick up is that a fellow really needs to keep expenditures and standards of living down. Overall it does seem as if a wise approach to life for a married man is to trade income and stress for interesting work and time to hit the gym, etc. I'm grateful though that I have the travel commitments, it's like getting 3 days off every week from a long prison sentence. The other thing I've realized is that a lot of marriage law dwells on "property" (i.e. stuff) which I imagine dates from the 19th century when "stuff" was more precious pound for pound than today. I had the epiphany that if you don't care much about "stuff" you sort of cheat death, at least as far as marriage law is concerned. It's like marriage law tries to clobber a man with the horror of taking his stuff, but if you just don't care that much, half your stuff is plenty.
What got me thinking along those lines was reading how it's been tough to fight the Afghan guerrillas , because they have so little. When your enemy is a guy with a rifle and a blanket, and that's all he has or really wants, you can't really freak him out by cutting off his electricity or fuel supply (as one U.S. general put it). So, kind of in that vein, I was thinking that if a man acquires a taste for a simple, low cost life (that's me) then one sort of becomes immune to the worst weapons that marriage law can throw at you. Beat marriage by just not caring about the things society takes away...kind of a Zen way to victory.
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Miranda
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
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[quote]If you do not make life decisions in regards, to some degree, to money, you have NEVER been in the position of looking at living paycheck to paycheck so you can PAY someone who you had the UNMITIGATED gall to SOLELY support for years. It is quite dismal, and you reconsider what you can live with. [/quote]
Whatever...I was a single airman with a child and over 15k of debt. No one needs to tell me anything about living pay check to pay check. I'd rather live pay check to pay check than be married and miserable. It is not even an option.
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30197
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Yeah, try doing that and making an ALIMONY payment. Look at MY case. MY ex was screwing around, SHE though she was prego with his kid, TOLD the marriage counselor she didn't want to be married anymore. So I am sitting in a one room hut paying HER bills, child support, and alimony.
So while I agree with alimony in a limited sense, in limited cases, any male who does NOT consider the financial ramifications is a fool.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Miranda
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
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Your logic does not make much sense...if alimony is supposed to scare people then they should get out of the marriage ASAP right? Versus staying an extra 15 years increasing the likelihood of actually paying it?
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
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