mikec73
recently joined
Reged: 12/02/10
Posts: 7
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Sigh..here I go. I am a divorced dad of three awesome kids who has started to piece my life back together after two years post divorce. Long story short I was deployed to Afghanistan and she was dealing with high stress, overwhelming grief through loss of her father and independence issues (i guess??). All of this and I am sure more, resulted in my divorce in 08 which I tried to prevent. Since the divorce (uncontested with not many provisions)the ex and I have maintained a cordial/friend like relationship. We are both in committed relationships with other people but still talk about work and life stuff (not including my girlfriend). My girlfriend tells me that she sees an unhealthy attachment between me and my ex and my gf frequently tells me how the ex and I don't have boundaries. She observes(feels) that I am being taken advantage of financially (this I can't deny) and that my ex runs all over me getting her way in everything.
I feel her comments are not completely without merit but I have a fear that should I start putting my foot down with the ex then our relationship would change to the detriment of my kids. Perhaps I am just scared that this would"officially" be the end of a relationship that I held for ten years. This is where I turn to you my new friends. I feel that my wonderful gf is on the brink of leaving me after a year because of these observations. While I am trying to help her understand the situation, she does not have kids of her own and left a bad/abusive marriage after 13 years.
I feel stupid at times because the things she mentions make perfect logical sense but emotionally I am barricaded to the change. That is where I feel the duh comes in. I am at a loss for words to help explain my situation and I need to figure out what next so I don't lose my sanity or my girlfriend or both. Please help.
Many Thanks
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bacall
enthusiast
Reged: 06/03/05
Posts: 274
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Dear Mike,
Your post actually makes me believe that there is hope for people who divorce and can maintain a decent relationship -- especially when children are involved. I see your dilemma. However, there are a lot of somewhat unspoken issues, I feel. First, there is an implication on your end that your ex-wife takes advantage of you -- perhaps financially. Is that perceived or real? You do have the lives of three children to share, so, my hope and expectation (because you sound like a pretty upstanding kind of guy) would be that you continue to provide the support (monetarily and otherwise that is needed to ensure your children's sound growth and development).
You also mention that your current girlfriend does not have children. How is she with your children? Has your relationship progressed to the point where she knows them and they know her?
Have to say that women are women (being one myself). I can see how a new girlfriend would be threatened by a man who still gets along with his ex-wife. I am presuming if her ex-husband was abusive that she does not have a good (or any) relationship with him.
From what you describe, it almost seems you have a Seinfield relationship (Jerry and Elaine) with your ex-wife. If you can talk about work and other issues (I presume many involving your children) and both of you are in other relationships, that almost sounds like the best of all worlds. But, again, I'm guessing there are more issues at stake here than might meet the eye.
Anyway, please don't lose your mind over this. It isn't the easiest thing in the world to be divorced (I'm sure that has been obvious to you). It requires all parties involved to be as mature and responsible as possible. You have my best wishes for success and certainly happiness. Let us know how it turns out. I'm curious to see how other posters will respond.
Best of luck to you and take care, bacall
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d2njti
member
Reged: 03/05/08
Posts: 187
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Sorry life and relationships turned badly for you Mike. For your service and apparent decency, you deserve better.
I side with the kids first and foremost. They are the only innocent victims and therefore are entitled to everything (your time and money)that they can use. This might possibly include buying off their mother to some extent, but being taken advantage of, financially or otherwise, sounds unhealthy. It is a good thing to show your children that you can both act like adults, even if some of it is pretend. If (BIG IF) you find a girlfriend with enough of herself left over after dealing with her own baggage, and is willing to share the little bit of yourself left over, you can possibly enjoy a long term relationship. Otherwise, budget for an occasional very discrete and clean prostitute for the next 18 years.
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Debi
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/03/05
Posts: 7139
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I can only tell you about one real llife experience I know of. My xSO and his xwife got along great. She would ask him to do things like look at her car if something was wrong and when he traveled for work she took the kids over to his house to feed the dog. She was married, and he was in a committed relationship with me. She and I got along very well too and would sit together at the kids sporting events.
Fast forward to after he and I broke up. He got involved with someone else and married her. She told him that she didn't think he should do anything for his x, that she took advantage of him. So he cut all ties and surprise, surprise she turned into a biotch. She refused to work with him on anything involving the kids. He had moved about 60 miles away , which changed his whole schedule with his kids. That in turn destruyed his relationship with his daughter. She's 23 now, bought a house is engaged and as far as I know he doesn't know about any of it. (She and I are friends on facebook and he and I still talk).
My advice is to do what you feel in your heart is right. I think it's very important for you to have a good relationship with your x. I didn't always have one but I do now and it makes life so much better for us and the kids. His wife and I have even become friends. The right person for you would be happy to see the way you treat the mother of your children. After all if you can be THAT nice to someone who hurt you then imagine what you would do for someone you LOVE. I'm not suggesting you break up with her, but I think you do need to put your foot down when it comes to your x. If you ever marry your GF, she will be happy that your x doesn't cause problems, so really it benefits her too. If your x is truly taking advatage of you then you need to handle that but as far as getting along keep working at it.
I don't think you're afraid of losing the relationship you had for 10 years. That's already gone. This is a new phase but it certainly doesn't have to be terrible.
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When we were together, you said you'd die for me. Now, I think it's time you kept your promise.
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BeachBabeRN
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 3051
Loc: VA for 21 years, NC forever!
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This really struck a chord for me, Mike and since you asked for opinions, I'll be happy to toss mine in there.
A little about me -- I'm the mom of two now grown children, 21 and 18. Their dad was never in my geographical area so it was pretty much just us for their entire lives. I know my children inside and out. It's unfortunate that their dad doesn't as I think he's missing out. That, however, is not my issue at this stage in their lives. They have to work all that stuff out amongst themselves -- but both my kids have been the victim of anger and pain at the hands of their dad. I always facilitated their relationship with their dad while I felt it was my issue to deal with. My ex did his own damage.
I'm currently the GF of a man that has a relationship with his ex similar to yours. His children are 17 and 13 and they've been apart for ten years. He refers to his wife as one of his closest friends. They are able to coparent very effectively. His children are happy and healthy and have great relationships with both their parents. I won't say that he has nothing negative to say about her but truly? Very minor. They don't interfere with each others' personal lives as respects dating, relationships with others -- you get my drift. He has told me that his ex and I will get along well actually and I consider that to be a good thing. I'm unaware of how often he might talk with her about anything actually but he has talked to her with me in the room, makes no secret that he has a girlfriend and I'm sure has told her about me -- that's all fine with me.
I have the impression that there might be some financial issues between the two of you -- your GF and you, I mean. My feeling about stuff like that is if you can afford it and want to do for your children and by extrapolation your ex? It's not your GF's business at all. It's not my business regarding my SO's financial contribution to his ex's household in any form and would never be my business unless he and I were sharing finances and it was negatively impacting what WE tried to do together.
Is that perhaps where your GF's thought process is leading? Is that statement something that has merit? Or is she concerned that the relationship with your ex will possibly lead to the two of you getting back together? With some folks, that might be a valid fear but it doesn't sound like it in your case.
Debi **very wise woman** suggested that you sit down with your GF and let her know that the relationship you have with your ex is going to continue on the best terms that you can manage. I think that's a good suggestion and would second it. The children truly do benefit, life can be easier for everyone and family events are just that much better for all involved.
I will say though, that if you're talking to the ex during time that you've committed to your GF **not including emergencies, obviously** that you not do that -- simply not polite. My SO doesn't do that at all but on the rare times that he speaks to her when I'm with him, he's not having an hour long conversation with her either. I have seen him let a call go to voicemail from his ex but NEVER from his children.
You sound like a very nice man -- my SO is also. While his kids are a priority to him **as they should be** one of the things that he does do in the normal course of events is keep his commitments to me and to his kids when he makes them. I recall a few weeks ago, he picked up his daughter at school due to illness, took her to her family doctor, filled her prescription and brought her to his mom's house since the child's mother was at work. When she asked to spend the night there **he lives there also** he of course said she could but he had already made plans with me and he kept those plans. He demonstrates that he keeps his word, to his children, his parents and to me and that's not a bad thing, IMHO.
I'm lucky Mike -- my SO is a very giving man, he's a very loving man and he knocks himself out making sure that he fits everyone into the time he has available to him **he travels all the time for his employment** His effort makes it easy for me to say **have a great time honey** when he does have to change plans -- because it's not a normal thing for him to do that. I feel VERY spoiled and VERY special that he makes the effort that he does and takes the time that he does for everyone in his life that's important.
I guess what I'm really trying to suggest is to examine what your GF is saying and determine if there's a reason that she feels that way that is within your power to correct and adjust accordingly if you can. If you really don't want to make changes in the relationship you have with your ex, then your GF can either accept it for what it is or she can choose to not remain in the relationship. While that would hurt, it has to be her choice. However, I would **in your position** make her feel as special as you can, help her to feel secure through your actions and words that she IS a priority to you and that your romantic relationship with your ex is a non-entity. Your children are your children and if you're comfortable at this time with your relationship with their mother, then that can only benefit them.
Having your GF create the drama is something that no one needs, especially if it's not warranted in your case. While my SO would listen to any opinion I have regarding his ex's behavior, it would ultimately be his choice how he handles that relationship, not mine. It IS the exception unfortunately for exes to have good relationships and that's sad, it should be the norm.
One other thing -- was there some precipitating event that led to this? You've been with her a year -- seems an odd time for it to occur, I'd think that it should have been brought out prior to this time.
I hope things turn out well for you.
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mikec73
recently joined
Reged: 12/02/10
Posts: 7
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So, in posting my story I have validated the very purpose for even getting on the internet. I have received some very sage advice and a lot of encouragement from you all. Thank you very much for you kind/wise and to a point cautious words.
I have told my gf in no uncertain words that though she doesn't care for my ex due to the characteristics that make her, the gf, completely different from the ex; the ex will be in my life for the rest of my life because of the kids (sorry for the run-on).
A lot of the current stress has to do with the holidays. My family (old and new with the divorce) has always done the santa thing and this is something the gf didn't grow up with due to her religion (she would kill me for sharing that). While my kids are still young, I want to be a part of that "magical" side of the holidays. While we still celebrate Jesus' birthday and read the real Christmas story, we do Santa as well. The gf sees it as lying to children and setting things up for tough times down the road when the kids find out. It is very difficult for her to understand our traditions or love for that side of Christmas that she never experienced. The area where I messed up is committing to spending the night at the ex's boyfriends townhouse over an hour away instead of driving down there at the crack of dawn to see the kids wake up and see what Santa left. The gf is very uncomfortable around the ex because she has no respect for her due to some of the issues mentioned in my initial post. So the whole idea of her experiencing how my family (me and the kids) experience Christmas is being overshadowed by her dread of being in the same home overnight.
I have done everything, in my view, to try an build a foundation out of a tough situation. My ex does not know that the gf doesn't want to be around her, nor will she. The gf will ultimately have to make the decision if she can withstand the current set of circumstances. She recently posted on another website that "to get what you want the most, you have to do what you want the least". She was directly referencing the upcoming holiday.
I think my gf is an incredible woman who would likely settle/warm up to the dynamic between me and the ex at some point. Being honest though, one more incidence like this and I am going to seriously doubt staying in a relationship with her. I am fully aware that dating a man with three kids and an ex is tall order for any girl. I have worked hard at honoring some of the gf requests to establish boundaries (no calls from the ex unless emergencies). I do text her but I am trying to limit that. The gf asks who I am texting most times and while the urge for me to tell her "none of her business" comes up, I usually explain who it is and what they want. If its the ex, the gf usually scoffs and makes a snide comment.
I have been told that I defend my ex from everything. While I do feel that when the gf is bringing things up, I try to explain some of the ex's behaviors and take issue when there is total dissent or bashing from the gf. I tell her that for 8 years, this woman was a 100% supporter of me and the things I am trying to accomplish, all the while raising three kids and working full time. This never goes well was sometimes the gf brings up very compelling points.
At the end of the day I kind of feel torn. I love the woman (gf) that I am with. But know that to be with her, there will be more fights about the ex and her behavior vs. the desire/attempt to build bridges and relationships with the ex. Not sure how I feel about that since they will be interacting frequently in the future. I keep hoping for a turnaround on her perceptions and the next meeting will be the spark that trips a positive relationship for both. Unfortunately, the odds of that happening seem to be very, very slim.
Thanks for enduring this post and I hope my writing makes sense, its 11:00 pm here and this fella is losing his battle with trying to stay up. Thanks again everybody
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finz
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/17/08
Posts: 6489
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Mike,
I think it says A LOT about your's/your ex's determination to put the kids needs first and to be flexible enough to 'share' the holidays, even with your new SO's there. I think that's the way it always SHOULD be (except for with issues of sbuse, etc)
Sounds like your girlfriend has 2 issues SHE has to work out. One is spending some time with your ex on major functions. The second is understanding your holiday practices. Frankly, I think it's rather rude and presumptuous of her to say or imply you don't celebrate the holidays 'correctly'. If you were ever to have children with her, obviously she would have equal say in what you teach the kids, but in your situation, she has no right to the decision. I'd be insulted if someone told me that basically, they think I'm raising my kids wrong.
I think there can be more than one right person out there for each of us. Maybe she is a great person and if you had met her before your marriage, you could have had a nice life together. If she can't understand why you are handling the holidays the way you do, maybe she isn't the right person for you right now.
It sounds like you've been clear with her about the things that are important to you. This is one of those deal breakers.
Best of luck to you. I hope it all works out for the best.
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BeachBabeRN
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 01/16/06
Posts: 3051
Loc: VA for 21 years, NC forever!
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If you'll forgive me for chiming in again -- something you said REALLY bothers me.
Your GF has no respect for your ex due to some of the issues that you mentioned in your first post.
Huge red flag, dude -- HUGE. Your GF hasn't even spent any time around your ex but she has no respect for her? Wow....she should have respect simply because the woman is the mother of your children, she works hard, parents effectively and from what you post isn't bringing any drama to the table. It sounds as though you and your ex have or are making a determined effort to make things pleasant and she's upsetting the apple cart.
As for spending the night at your ex's boyfriend's home? I can see an element of discomfort there for her but if that's the case, why not suggest a hotel in the area? That way, you can still get up at the crack of dawn and go over there, enjoy your Christmas morning with the kids and move on. I might feel uncomfortable with that arrangement but that's what I would have suggested. And, FTR, if she's THAT uncomfortable, I'd think twice about bringing her -- is she able to be gracious enough to not ruin the morning?
If your GF IS bringing up compelling points **your words** what can you do differently to perhaps alleviate some of what she says and still maintain a relationship with your ex? Obviously, based on the fact that your ex's BF is willing to have you stay there, he's not having an issue with it -- perhaps insecurity isn't an issue for him, as it seems to be for your GF.
There's a fine line between being used and having a good relationship with the ex. Do YOU feel you're being used? That's what matters here.
There are always some sacrifices that need to be made in order to have relationships post divorce -- dating relationships, I mean. If the two of you will be fighting about your ex, is it worth it? You say they'll be interacting frequently in the future -- can your GF handle it without being snarky? Or will this be an ongoing thing?
I know that if this situation existed with my own BF, beyond a certain point, I'd get told to deal with it or not, your choice. If I want to be with him, I have to accept that he had a life before me and that if he wanted to get back together with his ex, then he would. He doesn't. I'm secure in that. That's a given.
However, should I get snarky simply because they CAN have a decent relationship? Doesn't sound real mature to me.
I'm not sure where I stand on the **santa presents issue** I understand both sides of this particular coin. However, I don't feel that the Santa question is lying to the kids -- I grew up with that myth as did many of us. We have somehow all survived learning the truth **LOL** She doesn't have to be the same religion or celebrate it the same way to enjoy it.
One of my closest friends when I grew up was Jewish. My mom was extremely open minded about letting us learn about other religions, even while raising us Catholic. My friend AND her parents came over every Christmas day to enjoy the festivities, the lights and presents, visit with my family, etc. That didn't make them any less Jewish, they simply enjoyed a festive day. You don't have to believe simply to enjoy things.
I wish you luck, it sounds like you're going to need it. However, I'll reiterate what I said earlier -- if your GF has some valid points, is there a way to compromise? The texting for example -- can you limit that? I think I'd be having an issue if you were texting with your ex all the time when you were with me. Perhaps a one call a day rule? Deal with everything in that one call? That's reasonable and can take place away from your GF. Does your ex really NEED daily texting from you?
You might want to consider that.
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DramaMama
recently joined
Reged: 12/07/10
Posts: 1
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Hi All,
I am new here and will say up front that I am Mike's friend IRL. In fact, it was he who pointed me towards this thread to read all of your replies and give him my $.02. LOL!
I am a divorced Mama of three (whose ages are nearly the same as Mike's 3 kids). And let me add my (admittedly biased) commentary on Mike's situation. He is a FANTASTIC Daddy who has sacrificed much to be the primary caregiver of his kids. He is a hand's on Dad who has done an amazing job of relating to not only his ex... but to her family as well. You'd be hard pressed to find a more generous, giving man. I could tell you stories that would make him sound like Superman... but I shall refrain.
Mike. You asked me to give you my reply... but since I'm a few time zones behind you and you're asleep right now... I'll give you my take here.
1. You have consistently and without apology put your children first. I agree with whomever it was above (forgive me for not scrolling up and finding the comment) who said that the kids come first, period. Every single parent on this site would agree (or at least they should! LOL). The relationship you have with your ex is one that gives your children a sense of foundation and stability. Frankly, I'm envious. I wish that my ex was half the man you are and half as willing to be co-parents and spend time together.
2. You have been a selfless boyfriend. I have watched you work hard to make your gf comfortable with life. You've realized that you have asked much of her (in regards to your having three kiddos who, by necessity, come first). I have heard you wrestle with how to love your gf well. You've asked me my opinion many times. You've changed your boundaries (within appropriate negotiable limits) to accommodate her comfort level. You have done as much as you are physically able to do to let her know how important she is to you. I know you. I know your heart. It is in the right place (in regards to both your kiddos and your gf).
I have a few thoughts to add here...
- Gf's insecurity may never go away. She has been wounded in her marriage and (admittedly) carries residual trust issues in her heart. Only you can decide whether or not these trust issues and insecure feelings are something you want to deal with forevermore. Only you. I know you love her... and she's fantastic! I would suggest that you look at the situation through the lens of "these feelings will never go away for her". Don't assume that "one day" they might. Just proceed with the idea that they won't. I don't mean that in an uncharitable tone. I mean it in a realistic tone. Are you willing to continue to love her WITH these things? Are you willing to proceed with the notion that these things will never go away?
- The financial issue is water under the bridge. Unless you are willing to go to court and duke it out with the ex... these are the boundaries that you agreed to. I know that's harsher than I usually talk to you... LOL... but it's true. Yes. You have the lion's share of financial responsibility to your children. When you agreed to that situation... you felt good about it. You felt it was the best provision for the kids. Of course you feel the sting from time to time (when you're considering all of the sacrifices you need to make to stay afloat financially). I am willing to bet that a sincere and humble conversation with your ex would yield a willingness to help out financially in a pinch. The delightful friendship you continue to share with her is precisely the kind of foundation that has been laid in regard to this. You guys are so good about working together... so gracious to one another (with a few exceptions, of course, but by and large)... that I bet if you were to say to her, "Hey. I'm really struggling and Moo needs a new such and such... could you help out?"... I feel fairly certain that she would be happy to do whatever she could! *Because you have such a great friendship with each other.* :)
Bottom line: As a woman who also came out of 14 years of abuse... I can say with relative certainty that gf's acute sense of injustice and boundary issues has less to do with your relationship w your ex... and more to do with her own history and baggage. I know full well the sense of "if I had found my voice and ability to stick up for myself ages ago, I wouldn't have suffered this and that." This leaves a profound underlying feeling of injustice and deep need for boundaries around myself. Those issues are tender spots in my heart. I bet they're tender spots in gf's heart too. I bet every time she sees your relationship w your ex... you're getting too close to her tender spots.
Now. I know I'm not the most unbiased soul here... because you happen to be one of my favorite people on the planet and I consider you one of my dearest friends... but I have never once observed anything in your relationship w your ex that made me raise an eyebrow or threw up a red flag of boundary issues. Never once. I have, instead, seen the heart of a man who wants to do what is right and wants to love others first. In the economy of Heaven... you're making wise investments.
Okay. I hope that's made some sense. I'm rambling now too. I'm sure we'll talk on the phone in the morning... but that's my take.
Lots of wisdom here. Thanks to all who shared. And thanks to you, Mike, for pointing me towards this forum. I need it too!!! :)
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finz
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/17/08
Posts: 6489
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Welcome to DS DramaMama
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